A bit of a weird one?

[Mu-2pilot]

Hello Everyone,

I am a 17 year old studying in England but have been raised up in America (Florida) all my life up until 8 months ago when my dad (who is British) decided to move back to the UK. So as you can imagine my life has been turned upside down and I'm trying to resettle, and as I didn't finish High School so have no qualifications.

I have wanted to be a pilot all my life, since I stepped into my dads Mitsubishi MU-2. And at the moment I am having a little difficulty coming to grasps with a number of things which I hope someone out there will be able to help me with.

I am studying a BTEC First Diploma in Business (worth 4 GCSEs A-C) and a Maths GCSE. I am predicted to get a B overall in both of those. But if I got a C overall would, and got a C in my Maths GCSE would I still be eligible for Flight Training in the UK?

I am sort of bad at maths, grade B would be an achievement and my dad told me I really need to improve if I wish to be a commercial pilot, however he is an old style pilot and I was wondering if he is still right or has the maths standard dropped?

I will be doing a BTEC National Diploma in Aviation Studies (worth 3 A-Levels A-C) next year, so again if I did this with Maths Grade C would this make me eligible.

I do plan on going to University and if I did, would I be better on getting a Business or Aviation related degree, I only ask this because my dad has always told me to have a back stop in case I lose my medical. And those are the only two subjects im interested in.

Since I am an American citizen and a British one I can easily go between the two, would someone be able to recommend where I did my training? I know its much cheaper in America but I'm thinking about where the job growth will be, in Europe or america?

Also if someone could provide me with information about loans for flight training, it would be greatly appreciated.

Many MANY thanks for reading all of this, and for your responses,

[zondaracer]

I will take a crack at this one. Others will soon follow.

First of all, I have no idea what GCSEs or A Levels are, I just know that Will from the Inbetweeners crapped himself during his exam. As you can imagine, I have no A levels or GCSEs. After having been to several flying schools around Europe to include the UK, only one school ever asked to see school transcripts and that was a school in Portugal. If you go integrated, your mileage may vary but I have no experience in that field.

I was always pretty decent in Math and Science, so I found the ATPLs relatively easy apart from the quantity. You will never really need anything beyond some basic geometry, trigonometry, and algebra.

As for University, I would say get a degree in something besides aviation as a back up. I got my degree (in the USA BTW) in acting and world languages so before I did the flying thing, I was a spy for a few years. Just kidding, but actually I got a degree in multiple languages and as a result I worked in military intelligence for a few years. If I really wanted to, I could go work for one of many intelligence/law enforcement/govt agencies in the US, but like you, flying has always been my passion and goal since I was a little boy. (how little may may you ask? Well, I was already weened off breast milk). Anyway, I think a backup is a good idea.

As far as the FAA or JAA, I did FAA first as I'm a US citizen, but my wife is European and we moved to Europe so I did a JAA conversion. I would say that there are probably more opportunities to build hours in the US in general aviation, and perhaps more opportunities to get to a regional airline, but as you know, regional pay isn't that good to start out, neither is instructor pay (no matter which side of the pond). But you are young and I imagine still sigle. FAA will definitely save you some money, and if you do it without debt, instructor pay is survivable. You can work on your conversion from there if you plan on moving to Europe. For me, USA vs Europe is a personal choice as I find Europe a bit nicer and better quality of life, plus my wife's family is here, but you may feel differently plus you are young with quite a bit of time left to live where is best for you. FAA license is definitely cheaper and easier to maintain. If you get both FAA and JAA, and with your dual citizenship, you will be very flexible. If you fly for an airline in the US, you may qualify to carry a gun which I think is cool, my wife doesn't think it is cool though

Best of luck

[KAG]

In aviation we have a vocabulary problem: we call a CPL a "fATPL", we call pay to work "pay to fly", and "pay to fly" is even supposed to mean "line training", we call a turbofan a "jet", we call a pilot licence an education sometimes, we call our education and the job we will most likely get a back up plan...
Of course you may understand that the back up plan is in reality the pilot job/training, back up plan in case of you get lucky.

A "back up plan" because of medical loss is a wrong good idea. What may happen is that instead of getting your "back up plan" for free or almost due to your work experience and your medical insurance, you will pay an education that won't be up to date the day you lose your medical (15 years later?) and won't be able to network the same as if you did your master degree just before looking for a job in the same field.
Advice: get an education for the good reasons (loss of medical situation theory is not necessarily a good one), and don't call it your back up plan, as for most of the candidate in Europe it is their option A in the real life.
If you fly for an airline in the US, you may qualify to carry a gun which I think is coolYou may want to fly in PNG and indonesia for some time if you really think guns are cool. You will have to fight with the passengers for them not to bring their gun in the airplane when flying in the jungle/mountain area. Cool? If this is the only thing that remains cool from this career in 2011, carrying a gun, become a policeman, you will avoid so much hassle for so little result.


MU2 pilot:I have wanted to be a pilot all my lifeThis is not a good reason to become pilot, otherwise half the planet should be occupied by pilots. "all your life": well you are at the begining of it, and I hope you will have more expectation from your life before you die than becoming an airline pilot in the 21rst century, the most expensive way to get an unstable unintellectual and everyday less interesting/challenging position.

[zondaracer]

I carried a gun in my previous job, to include war zones. Yes, it was cool, but it is true that I moved to a country with strict gun control and that was my choice, but the debate of pilots carrying guns belong in another thread. And o
I didn't say that it was the only thing cool from a pilot career. I was only trying to lighten the mood of my post (same goes for my Inbetweeners reference, Team America reference, and weened off breastmilk comment).

Lastly, plenty people I know work in something unrelated to their degree. Go study something you like, it will hopefully give you an experience that will develop you as a person if nothing else.

And KAG, what would you suggest as a more interesting, more stable, more intellectual, and increasingly challenging career?

[KAG]

I don't have any personal position about a pilot carrying a gun. And like you I am not interested in this debate. I just think that after 120 years of incredible aviation history we have nothing else to say that carrying a gun is cool about this profession, it is sad, it is the sign this job is changing.

Concerning begining your career in north america, this is a wise advice you are right. He still can come back later in europe when his career will take off, if this is what he wants.

[captainsuperstorm]

gun are not cool when it s pointed at you.
Happened to me and I freaked out! even if the guy was joking with me.
You never know if the gun is loaded or not or loaded by mistake and the asshole pull the trigger and your day can end in a microsecond.

as for the :
I have wanted to be a pilot all my life

I answer: next !

[Mu-2pilot]

KAG:

Oh I'm very aware of the terms CPL, fATPL. I've done my research ;)

Ihave my Medical Class 2 and I have gone solo, and I still love it, and its still what I want to do, is this a good enough reason for wanting to be a pilot still?

And I completely disagree with this statement:

"the most expensive way to get an unstable unintellectual and everyday less interesting/challenging position."

It may be expensive, but flying does not get "less interesting/challenging" everyday landing is different, as is every take off. I know automation is very big nowadays but its there to save lives.

Look I know what I want, its all Ive ever dreamed of doing, ever.

ZondaRacer:

Thank you, hahah you know Im not really interested in guns, but a fair point :p ... Do you think there is going to be more jobs in Europe in the next ten years or in USA?

and I'm really looking to stay on my subject, I really do need advise on this, Thank you so much :)

[Genghis the Engineer]

Hello Everyone,

I am a 17 year old studying in England but have been raised up in America (Florida) all my life up until 8 months ago when my dad (who is British) decided to move back to the UK. So as you can imagine my life has been turned upside down and I'm trying to resettle, and as I didn't finish High School so have no qualifications.

You are however 17 - the move to the UK has lost you a year or two - so just recover that time without worrying too much.

I have wanted to be a pilot all my life, since I stepped into my dads Mitsubishi MU-2. And at the moment I am having a little difficulty coming to grasps with a number of things which I hope someone out there will be able to help me with.

I'll try - I've worked across most of the areas that you need to crack.

I am studying a BTEC First Diploma in Business (worth 4 GCSEs A-C) and a Maths GCSE. I am predicted to get a B overall in both of those. But if I got a C overall would, and got a C in my Maths GCSE would I still be eligible for Flight Training in the UK?

Eligible yes, because flying training in the UK really doesn't care about qualifications. However, potentially unemployable.

As an absolute minimum, to be employable in the UK you want 5 GCSEs - including maths, english and some form of science - a foreign language is also highly advantageous.

These combined grade ND schemes are not very good for somebody like you, because they're normally built upon a foundation of GCSEs, not instead of them. You need to be signed up for English and combined science GCSEs if you're going to get anywhere, as well as the maths. This is in life, not just flying training (which is easier).

I am sort of bad at maths, grade B would be an achievement and my dad told me I really need to improve if I wish to be a commercial pilot, however he is an old style pilot and I was wondering if he is still right or has the maths standard dropped?

You need maths skill equivalent to about grade B GCSE - the actual qualification will be fine at grade C which is what is regarded by the "real world" (as opposed to the school system) as a pass. Some maths in the ATPL course is A level standard, but you can learn that as you go along.

I will be doing a BTEC National Diploma in Aviation Studies (worth 3 A-Levels A-C) next year, so again if I did this with Maths Grade C would this make me eligible.

You need to ask the admissions tutor at the college. Personally I favour traditional A levels, these BTECs are often dodgy educationally.

I just consulted with a university admissions tutor on your behalf (I'm married to her), who knows this ND course, and is very sceptical about it. It will in all likelihood repeat what you'll do later in groundschool, but if you want to get into a degree course - do proper old fashioned A levels, which will be much more academically rigorous, and will be regarded in much better light by a university.

I do plan on going to University and if I did, ould I be better on getting a Business or Aviation related degree, I only ask this because my dad has always told me to have a back stop in case I lose my medical. And those are the only two subjects im interested in.

Aviation degrees, the ones that are worth having, are generally engineering or science related. In which case you want maths and physics at A level, plus something else. A business degree will accept you with those qualficiations as well.

But, I disagree with your Dad - a degree is a licence to learn, just as much as a pilots licence is. It is not a backstop and would be a massive waste of time and money if you only really want to be a pilot. If you want a backstop, get a licence in something immediately employable like catering, plumbing, teaching swimming...

If you plan a military flying, aviation management career - maybe a degree then flying training are right. But I say again, a degree is not a backstop.

Since I am an American citizen and a British one I can easily go between the two, would someone be able to recommend where I did my training? I know its much cheaper in America but I'm thinking about where the job growth will be, in Europe or america?

The job growth is in Asia, the USA is cheaper to learn to fly, a European licence is much easier to convert into an FAA licence than the other way around. Getting a job anywhere is hard at the moment.

Also if someone could provide me with information about loans for flight training, it would be greatly appreciated.

Just use the search function. There have been a lot of threads on this.

Many MANY thanks for reading all of this, and for your responses,

You're welcome - one further point: university admissions tutors in the UK and US all have access to explanations of each others qualifications. So, A levels will get you into a US degree, US school graduation (if you did the right subjects) will get you into a British university. So it is possible to switch education systems.

The big danger however, is going for noddy qualifications with no substantial academic content like the BTEC, or like a basic US school graduation certificate. Schools will push students they don't see as academic high flyers in those directions - but fight this and do the stuff that you need, not what will give you and them an easy ride.

G

[KAG]

Good stuff from the Genghis the engineer above.

MU-2 pilot (sensitive but fast old turboprop... accident rate a bit high... A special machine):And I completely disagree with this statement:
"the most expensive way to get an unstable unintellectual and everyday less interesting/challenging position."It's perfectly fine to desagree!:)
I would even say that I 17, this is a healthy behaviour. Unfortunately it doesn't mean anything about how you will feel like 10, 20, 30 years from now.


Look I know what I want, its all Ive ever dreamed of doing, ever. I didn't say don't do it, I said it's not good enough. The "I am a teenager and I want to be a pilot since I am a kid" have been heard million times, even from many future "losers". It will take much more than this teenager statement to reach what you want. I don't mean to be rude, I just state the obvious.
Get out of the teenager dream, and when you are back to reality listen to Zondaracer, he told you to start your career in the US., that's important information. If he says so he has good reasons that I share--its' not a matter of how many job will be available in the next 10 years in US or Europe, it's a matter of who has a progressive start process that gives more chance to a wannabe to take off without sinking under its own debts---.
If you don't know those reasons ask him on this thread, it's better investment in your real future than telling me again becoming pilot is your dream. Read the post of Genghis aswell.

[mad_jock]

Have a look at some of the european degrees as well after following Genghis advice.

The course fees are well cheaper than the UK. I was reading a Mastrict University prospectus and the whole fees structure UK v other countries is making it a worth while option studying in central europe.

[Mu-2pilot]

Wow Genghis the engineer,

Thank you very much for asking your wife and for going through all of that with me.

I have signed up for English and a Double Science GCSE for next year, along with my Aviation ND.

I do agree that A-Levels are more suited for me, but I know if I did an A-level in mathematics I wouldnt be able to achieve a grade of merit, and I thought that if I were able to get great grades at this ND, it would look better than bad grades on the A-level scheme.

I might be wrong on this though :/

Would an Aviation Management Degree not be useful? Is that not like a mix between Aviation and Business?

I have heard this about the JAA licence being easier to convert to an FAA, but the JAA way is so expensive, thats the reason why I asked if job growth was better in america or Europe, but it sounds to me like jobs are hard everywhere now except maybe the east in asia.

A degree is not a backstop, but it is a cover for a decent job if I were to lose my medical, or for whatever reason stop flying no?

How does someone quote like you guys are? It would be much easier for me to make replies up?

Sorry I will have to come back to this as I'm in a rush to get out.

Thank You again :)

[Genghis the Engineer]

Seriously, if you don't use a degree, within a few years, it is worth nothing.

Aeronautical engineering degrees are perhaps the exception -if (for example) you have an Aero-Eng degree, and work in aviation for a few years, you are probably regarded as having worked in the field and are still employable since all that flying knowledge is just added to your engineering knowledge.

A business management degree, worked as a pilot for a few years - that degree probably has no value and no employer will take it seriously.
My personal opinion is that an MSc in aviation management, achieved a few years into an established aviation career, has significant value. A batchelors degree in aviation management - at-least the ones I've seen, is largely worthless. It panders to the fiction that a degree is worth lots regardless of what it's in. This just isn't true - and probably hasn't been since the 1980s.

A backstop is something that will get you a decent job if you lose your medical! So, most degrees, if you go straight from your degree into flying, probably aren't that because they will pass their shelf life through not being built upon. It is also a very expensive way of spending 3 or 4 years these days.

([q uote] before the text, then [/q uote] after the text (without the spaces I've just put in) ).

G