QF shares hit $2.00, discuss

[ejectx3]

Qan2.000 2.010 2.000 -0.030

Well we hit the magic $2.00 this morning...... Will this trigger anything at investor board level those more knowledgeable than I?

[The Kelpie]

1.99!!

Institutional investors must be getting very twitchy!!

[Budfox]

Will this trigger anything at investor board level those more knowledgeable than I?

Its already been happening the past few weeks eject.
Its been called exiting the building !!!
Shareholders showing no faith in this company, buy side is looking like its about
to capitulate. :ouch:
No more blame game AJ shareholders are placing fingers on sell buttons cause of what your doing. :eek:

[assasin8]

"The smartest men in the room...":{

[Keg]

Yet according to our Chairman apparently it's the workers of the place who are living on another planet and according to our CEO that place is cloud cuckoo land. All of that because apparently we don't understand the business. I'd say the frustrating thing for them is that we understand the business far more than they want us to because we're calling them on their attempts to destroy it.

[bobhoover]

Looks like the management and board are playing "limbo" with the share price. How low can you go?:eek: $1.96 today's low so far.

[ejectx3]

http://chart.finance.yahoo.com/z?s=QAN.AX&t=my&q=l&l=on&z=l&p=s&a=v&p=s&lang=en-AU&region=AUhttp://www.retailservices.wallst.com/cgi-bin/upload.dll/file.png?z04a7110azfa497373db404a41b0d87e64933fafe4

[bobhoover]

1.955 the new low for the day

[1a sound asleep]

We all should have bailed at $6. Can you imagine if the Texans were running the place now? On the other hand maybe it may have been better...

[dragon man]

In an exciting new develpoment today to help boost its sagging share price QANTAS have announced the sponsorship of a new musical show RATS. This show is epected to bring QANTAS more world wide publicity tha RAINMAN.:ok:

[TIMA9X]

Qantas and Alan Joyce and Leigh Clifford (http://wotnews.com.au/news/Qantas__and__Alan_Joyce__and__Leigh_Clifford/)

Finally, reading between the lines, it all has caught up with the real rouges at Q. The clock is ticking as we watch the demise of Q management in its infancy today but defiantly heading south no matter what Clifford said in the Australian last Saturday.Not a good look for these guys!
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-JscPeAODkLM/TexGoygyqNI/AAAAAAAAA2M/-_qea45ug28/clif-joyce.jpg
The new flight plan



Glenda Korporaal
From: The Australian (http://www.theaustralian.com.au/)
October 18, 2008 12:00AM


The new flight plan | The Australian (http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/features/the-new-flight-plan/story-e6frgabx-1111117786058)
As they finish their second bottle of fine French wine in a corner of the Sofitel lounge bar in Sydney¿s Phillip Street, Geoff Dixon and Peter Gregg warm to their task of telling the new boy on the block, Alan Joyce, how to run Qantas. The scene would have surprised many people in the industry had they witnessed it. Dixon, the departing CEO, had put his considerable weight behind Joyce to succeed him. Gregg, who had expected to get the job, had already handed in his resignation as chief financial officer. But tonight there is no sign of ill feeling. Instead, three blokes share a friendly, robust conversation.

Joyce, the baby-faced whiz-kid from Dublin, listens patiently as Dixon and Gregg dispense advice with increasing intensity, especially on the need to take business risks. There’s an easy camaraderie and an obvious affection between Dixon, 68, and Joyce, 42. And Gregg, 53, doesn’t hold back.




“It was the first time the three of us had got together since the announcement (that Joyce would be CEO),” Dixon recalls. “Close to finishing off the second bottle of wine, both Peter and I were giving him plenty of advice.” my bold
It has been going in circles for too long now, should be an interesting couple of weeks...:rolleyes:

[maggot]

FS: QAN.


Mates rates apply..........
:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::{

[KrispyKreme]

So why the hell hasn't the shareholders told the board where to go!! I think its time for a mutiny!! other than the board who actually likes the direction Qantas is taking? Oh sorry i mean Qantas Group:ugh:

[TIMA9X]

Virgin Australia loses potential partner to Qantas | Malaysia Airlines (http://www.smh.com.au/business/virgin-loses-potential-partner-to-qantas-20110606-1fohe.html)
Virgin loses potential partner to Qantas

Matt O'Sullivan

June 6, 2011 - 1:48PM


However, the likelihood of closer ties with Malaysia failed to halt a continued slide in Qantas shares today.
Qantas slumped 6.5 cents to $1.965 in early afternoon trading as the stock is weighed down by a standoff with its long-haul pilots and engineers over new employment contracts. Virgin’s shares rose 0.5 cents to 28.5 cents today.





Funny - Now this hot off the press, Q are firing every thing they have in the war chest.

[crocodile redundee]

I wouldn't put one red cent into the joint!!! Not unless it goes to $1.70 . Thats my buy trigger. The buggers havent paid any dividend for over 12 months so what upside is there??? NIL......

[packrat]

There is a lot of money on this planet looking for a home.With huge cash flows and asset backing of around $2.40/share Qantas will be a very attractive proposition to that money.
This is looking very much like a path that has been trodden before.
I'm with Crocodile $1.70 to $1.75 is a buy

[Elton Jon]

The posse of Texas equity partners are getting ready to pounce again I suspect.

[Jetro6UL]

Only moronic self flagellating cretins buy airline shares....

^^^I'm with this guy, lol.

Good luck, cretins!!

[Shed Dog Tosser]

So whats the super dooper isolvent share price ?.

"Total assets" divided "by the number of shares".

Disclaimer: I'm not an MBA, so forgive me if I am using technically incorrect terminology.

[Jack Ranga]

As I understand it, index funds (and other funds) buy and sell on market cap, so if it drops out of top 50, top 100, top 200 etc etc they have no choice but to sell.

I reckon there would be plenty on the board sh!tting themselves, plenty of managers sh!tting themselves and an Irish gimp about to make a career choice.

This arseclown gives all the convicts that help build this joint a bad name :=

[Shed Dog Tosser]

Who said there is only one way to skin a cat, and the PIA fairy has not even been let out of its dungeon like, crab infested warty box.

[Wally Mk2]

What can you buy for 2 bucks? 1x QF share (if yr silly enuf,with change) or a ticket on a plane............there's the main problem with our Airlines of today. They have sold themselves out with stupidly cheap unsustainable ticket prices. People will still fly in large No's if the fares where raised to make these airlines viable Aussies love to travel, hardly think that everyone will stop doing so if the prices go up..................you reap what you sow CEO's!



Wmk2

[Popgun]

...let out of its dungeon like, crab infested warty box.

Gold. LMAO!

The slide continues. Closed at 1.955.

[Romulus]

So whats the super dooper isolvent share price ?.

"Total assets" divided "by the number of shares".

Disclaimer: I'm not an MBA, so forgive me if I am using technically incorrect terminology.

Share price has nothing to do with insolvency, insolvency occurs when a company is unable to pay its bills as and when they become due. Number of other bits and pieces tie in with it but that's the basics of it.

What a significantly reduced share price and thus market capitalisation may do is breach certain banking convenants which makes loans harder to obtain, more expensive to fund or perhaps even trigger a repayment requirement. Probably unlikely in this case but not impossible.

Worst effect of reduced share prices occurs if certain people have taken out a whole lot of them, leveraged them up and then they get hit with a margin call and are forced to sell. Then it becomes a "race for the exits" as everyone tries to sell with few buyers.

[mainwheel]

It's too late to recover. Not all over but will dwindle down to natural self sustaining level.

After all the sell offs and outsourcing the financial side is still a mess.

Airlines are there to be state owned enterprises. To provide a service for the country's people, more so internally. Also to faciltate tourism and trade internationally. Not to make huge profits, to provide employment and create the overflow business that comes along with it. Duty free shops, post, airport concessions, care hire, motels etc.

You can't financially compare an airline to a coal mine, gold mine, steel mill, fish and chip shop, bank. There are in a category of their own.

The best option is for the govt to buy it back and rebuild it into an australian icon.

[denabol]

Can't believe this. Here is Joyce rubbishing his own company in front of an IATA conference.

And claiming Jetstar is subsidizing Qantas.

How much longer is this going to go on?

Qantas CEO trashes the brand in comments at IATA conference | Plane Talking (http://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalking/2011/06/07/qantas-ceo-continues-to-downtalk-the-brand-and-reverse-the-realities/)

[soliloquy]

QF has been failing for a lot longer the current management has been there. The eye was not on the ball while the Texan group was trying to maximise profits, not for the airline but for themselves. They, the Texas group is gone now, there is no cheap credit out there.
I use it a lot as a passenger, sorry, but it is not much chop, it's nice because it's Ozzie but that is it.
If QF mainline still exists in 5 years, I would be surprised.

[mohikan]

What needs to be understood, is that this sort of talk by Joyce & Clifford is deliberate.

By demonising the workforce in the media, and misrepresenting the truth about the current profitability of the Qantas international operation Joyce is seeking to deepen the current crisis to allow justification for further restructuring and offshoring.

A tactic attempted on numerous occasions in the US after deregulation in the 1970's - most notably by Frank Lorenzo at Eastern.

The problem is that this tactic has never worked. So much damage is inflicted on the brand that customers simply do not return.

Joyce has been quoted on multiple occasions that his business philosophy is that 'crisis equals opportunity". By misrepresenting the true financial position of the company, by bad mouthing his staff and product in order to drive the share price down further into the take over zone, Joyce is seeking to obscure blame for years of chronic mismanagement.

Im of the opinion that regardless, nothing can save Qantas mainline now. The real tragedy is that the staff are going to be blamed for its demise instead of the real culprits.

[1a sound asleep]

Can't believe this. Here is Joyce rubbishing his own company in front of an IATA conference.

And claiming Jetstar is subsidizing Qantas.

How much did JQ pay QF for all the routes handed to them on a platter and all the other benefits they get from Qantas? zip, nothing, ziltch.

I doubt JQ would have ever made it if it wasn't part of QF

[Jetro6UL]

Virgin Australia have just hooked up with Singapore Airlines...watch the freefall now, lol.

[Sunfish]

Joyce's comments, if reported correctly, are bizarre and inexplicable.

There is no fukcing way Qantas would even have ordered the A380, let alone Twenty of them, without the most detailed financial analysis of their return on investment it was possible to make - and that includes their cost of capital.

That analysis would have included a number of assumptions regarding fuel, maintenance and crewing costs and there would have been figures for inflation of costs as well.

That analysis would absolutely not contain an assumption that crewing costs would be reduced in constant dollar terms by a sustained campaign of workforce restructuring. That would be madness. Furthermore to make the statement that Joyce appears to have made, that the viability of the operation hangs on whether or not pilots maintain the purchasing power of their wages is simply lunacy!

Furthermore, judging by repeated accounts on Pprune, if Jetstar is profitable, it's because of massive cross subsidies from the mainline operations, there is no way the could have created the infrastructure themselves.

As I said before, what needs to be seen is the contribution analysis of the various segments of the corporation. Please note that Joyce and Chairman Clifford never say that that international is not profitable, they instead hide behind euphemisms such as "not making an acceptable return". This is just sophistry.

[ejectx3]

$1.93 with a bullet..........

[Wally Mk2]

That's well put 'mainwheel' I agree (our Govt haven't got a clue so no answer there) but what we have here now is greed in it's ugliest form. Airlines are no longer 'pots of gold' for CEO's to come along destroy & pillage, Joyce (with his predecessor) is now realizing this & he's a desperate man............as Dowding once said during that famous war..........."must find more pilots or loose" (or words to that effect) Simply put must find an answer or we'll lose QF, the name will only exist in the history books.


Wmk2

[bobhoover]

$1.89 the new low so far :sad:

['holic]

Please note that Joyce and Chairman Clifford never say that that international is not profitable, they instead hide behind euphemisms such as "not making an acceptable return". This is just sophistry. I was wondering the same thing, Sunfish. Sometimes you see AJ being quoted that QF Int is not "meeting its cost of capital", and other times that the QF Int is loss making, sometimes even in the same article.

Doesn't not "meeting its cost of capital" imply that it is still making a profit, just not as much of a return as required to justify the investment? Which conflicts with the quotes that QF Int is losing money.

In this morning’s reports by invited and hosted media the group’s CEO, Alan Joyce, says he is not going to spend any more money on “the premium international operation until they (start) to return their cost of capital” and will “reconsider new aircraft orders”If this is the case, why are the new 787s going to JQ SIN which has had a worse ROC than QF mainline? Also, I find it incredible that AJ justifies spending no more money on QF Int when part of the reason current returns are poor is because of lack of expenditure and sheer neglect.

[Sunfish]

'holic:

If this is the case, why are the new 787s going to JQ SIN which has had a worse ROC than QF mainline? Also, I find it incredible that AJ justifies spending no more money on QF Int when part of the reason current returns are poor is because of lack of expenditure and sheer neglect.

This is what I meant by labelling QF Int'l a "legacy airline". No investment, "harvesting" which means running the asset into the ground, no investment in staff.

For what its worth, I'm now suspecting that the banker Boyz are setting up to flog off Mainline and licence the brand name to private interests. That would leave the shareholders with the wonderfully profitable, modern dynamic Jetstar domestic and International components, and they would be freed from this ugly millstone of mainline around their necks.

The Jetstar shareprice would recover...for a while.

The banker Boyz now start washing the mud off the now privately owned wrecked Holden ute that is Qantas International and, what do you know? Who would have thought? Why this isn't so bad a wreck at all, in fact we can see something silvery appearing from under the grime.....why this isn't a broken ute at all! It's a Rolls Royce cash making machine!!!!

Mr Joyce and the Board are starting to smell exactly like the previous Board at the time of the APA bid. I suspect that there is some ratfukcing going on.

[ampclamp]

Agreed. MkII version of the failed PE bid.
QAN again out performing the ASX this morning (using AJ's calculator that is)
QAN down 2.3% currently with the All Ords down 0.6%.

NB! Virgin's share price up 3.5%. Capital is voting and it is currently going VBA's way.

[packrat]

If the price drops below $1.80 and approaches $1.75 it surely has to be buy

[maggot]

What needs to be understood, is that this sort of talk by Joyce & Clifford is deliberate.

yep, and that's what makes me so sick to the stomach about it all!



:suspect:

[Low and Fast]

Time to sell while you still can.:eek:

[Baileys]

You go and catch that falling knife packrat. If I was silly enough to have any I'd sell them to you. Just remember the bottom could theoretically be 0.00 and I'm sure it will look "cheap" many times along the way. Don't think it could happen?? - nor did many of those Wall St types in 2008.

[packrat]

I bought back into the market in March 2009 and was able to buy the misses a new car for cash with the proceeds after the market improved.
QF shares rallied a little today.Lets wait and see.As I said if it plumbs below 1.80 and approaches 1.75 for me its buy.When the long end game becomes apparent then the herd mentality will come into play and push the price up.I only invest in this type of stock an amount I can afford to lose.My margin of safety if you will.
A while back QF shares were 1.88....I bought.When they hit 2.28 I bailed

[HF3000]

You guys don't seem to make much sense... You all seem to agree another buy-out is on the horizon and in the next breath you are saying "sell" or "I'm glad I don't have any shares".

If you were really serious you would be accumulating as many shares as possible... Once this "buy-out" you promise hits the newspapers the share price will double and you'll all be able to retire to your own private islands.

[DEFCON4]

Now is a good time to monitor QF share movements.
Watch who is selling and who is buying

[Baileys]

I don't see a buy out - I see an uncompetitive company being poorly run by fools. The damage being done is approaching irreversible in my opinion. Qantas is getting slaughtered by the competition - in print and in fact.

[airtags]

crisis = opportunity - only now the spruiker has become the suspect.

Joyce's performance at IATA was a shocker - his body language alone made him look 3 feet shorter than most of us see him!

Close today at 1.93 again showing that the QF loss outstripped the average.

Oh and BTW... on which brand's seat does Joyce stick his bum for these little escapades ........ hint: it's not the Oranage Cancer

AJ -even adjusting for the market sell down the share price is below the intial offer - the greater proportion of the cause lies at the feet of Dixon, Joyce and the reserve grade has-been Management. Todays loss was expedited by the mindless inane comments at IATA by Joyce.

Cue the institutionals - my super doesn't need another hit.

His crisis may well become the opportunity that QF needs

AT

PS: Q Board: Do not even think about his bonus or any sympathy cheques like those given to junkyard dog Dixon.

[Xcel]

Accounting scandals

Accounting scandals, or corporate accounting scandals, are political and business scandals which arise with the disclosure of misdeeds by trusted executives of large public corporations. Such misdeeds typically involve complex methods for misusing or misdirecting funds, overstating revenues, understating expenses, overstating the value of corporate assets or underreporting the existence of liabilities, sometimes with the cooperation of officials in other corporations or affiliates.

In public companies, this type of "creative accounting" can amount to fraud and investigations are typically launched by government oversight agencies, such as the Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) in the United States.

Scandals are often only the 'tip of the iceberg'. They represent the visible catastrophic failures. Note that much abuse can be completely legal or quasi legal.

For example, in the domain of privatization and takeovers*:

It is fairly easy for a top executive to reduce the price of his/her company's stock - due to information asymmetry. The executive can accelerate accounting of expected expenses, delay accounting of expected revenue, engage in off balance sheet transactions to make the company's profitability appear temporarily poorer, or simply promote and report severely conservative (eg. pessimistic) estimates of future earnings. Such seemingly adverse earnings news will be likely to (at least temporarily) reduce share price. (This is again due to information asymmetries since it is more common for top executives to do everything they can to window dress their company's earnings forecasts). There are typically very few legal risks to being 'too conservative' in one's accounting and earnings estimates.

A reduced share price makes a company an easier takeover target. When the company gets bought out (or taken private) - at a dramatically lower price - the takeover artist gains a windfall from the former top executive's actions to surreptitiously reduce share price. This can represent tens of billions of dollars (questionably) transferred from previous shareholders to the takeover artist. The former top executive is then rewarded with a golden handshake for presiding over the firesale that can sometimes be in the hundreds of millions of dollars for one or two years of work. (This is nevertheless an excellent bargain for the takeover artist, who will tend to benefit from developing a reputation of being very generous to parting top executives).

Similar issues occur when a publicly held asset or non-profit organization undergoes privatization. Top executives often reap tremendous monetary benefits when a government owned or non-profit entity is sold to private hands. Just as in the example above, they can facilitate this process by making the entity appear to be in financial crisis - this reduces the sale price (to the profit of the purchaser), and makes non-profits and governments more likely to sell. It can also contribute to a public perception that private entities are more efficiently run reinforcing the political will to sell off public assets. Again, due to asymmetric information, policy makers and the general public see a government owned firm that was a financial 'disaster' - miraculously turned around by the private sector (and typically resold) within a few years.

from wikipedia

either the guy is stupid or the guy is stupid - Dixon tried it... His little apprentice is trying to - the timing however is terrible - liquidity in the market and free cash lying around isn't great.

So if it isn't a takeover, driving into the ground or just a vendetta he has - I he is serious about his job WTF is he doing... In a year or so if someone hasn't bought it I will be very surprised - if this is something else I'm lost...

[Captahab]

I don't see a buy out - I see an uncompetitive company being poorly run by fools.

Personally I can't see Branson paying more that $1.50 per share for a soon to be penny dreadful :E

[RATpin]

Ouch!That hurts.

[hadagutfull]

This corporate genocide is becoming very concerning...

As a QF shareholder and long serving employee, I DEMAND the resignation of the current CEO, CHAIRMAN and board of Qantas Airways LTD for gross misconduct and extreme negligence in their duty to the airline.

I might be dreaming that this would ever happen, and I am only 1 person.....
but if 33000 of us that ARE Qantas made the same demand, would the investors and markets take any notice or is it a case of just sit back and hang the F**k on???

Dont expect the Gillard government to help... they are busy ruining the country at a higher level.

Is a mutiny from within possible????

A public vote of no confidence???

[1a sound asleep]

This corporate genocide is becoming very concerning...

As a QF shareholder and long serving employee, I DEMAND the resignation of the current CEO, CHAIRMAN and board of Qantas Airways LTD for gross misconduct and extreme negligence in their duty to the airline.

I might be dreaming that this would ever happen, and I am only 1 person.....
but if 33000 of us that ARE Qantas made the same demand, would the investors and markets take any notice or is it a case of just sit back and hang the F**k on???

Dont expect the Gillard government to help... they are busy ruining the country at a higher level.

Is a mutiny from within possible????

A public vote of no confidence???


If you dont own QFA shares go buy 10 and then lets get a few thousand to attend the next AGM and create enough demand to demand a new CEO and/or board

[Pukka]

Neither AJ nor the Chairman should be regarded as a fool. They have a strategy that is supported by the Board. They will survive.

Vale Qantas!

[B772]

1a sound asleep.

The minimum share purchase transaction is usually a parcel with a value of $500. BTW at 10:10am QF are trading at $1.90.

5 Research Companies I follow report the following for QF:
Coverage ceased
Coverage ceased
Avoid
Sell
Sell

Coverage ceased is a polite way of saying we have lost interest in the stock or the company management/board.

[POT100]

I don't think AJ and the board have a clue whats going on or what to do.QF has enjoyed a monopoly for years bumbling along.Now here comes the competition!!-"oh no what do we do now!"..
They are letting a great institution die - and no one is doing anything about it
Wheres the innovation to take QF International forward??..wheres the vision to get to the top and stay there??.."I know.. we'll do nothing.No money to invest until it turns a profit!!"..Hmm thats a great plan..
So if you owned a shop and it started to lose money to competetion or whatever, you would do nothing to rescue your livelyhood until ,by an act of God, it turned a profit by itself..Emm...start praying!!..
..and don't blame the share price on the Industrial disputes..thats a pathetic statement!!!..

Qantas is a great company but is stuck in the past.Their procedures and practices are least 10 years behind other International carriers..Engineering is bogged down by red tape and its getting worse..all an increased cost!!!!...The company is almost run as a government Company of old, by the old mateship club..Unbelievable!!!!.

The one bloke who could put QF at the top was overlooked for the top job and is now QF's main domestic competitor!!..Another great plan!..

:ugh:.

[the_company_spy]

It would be interesting to know what the lease terms are and who was involved in arranging them, rumour has it that some lease terms on certain aircraft are crippling qf, where does the money trail lead?

[hadagutfull]

Thank you Angryrat.... That is just what I been waiting to hear
As suspected, it's just an ANSETT matey club.
They all have a dismal track record and their previous connections with leasing or consulting companies surely must be a breach of conflicts of interests.

Reading your post sickens me....
But I'm not surprised ...
I wonder how much more dirt would be dug if it was forensically looked at.

Share price dropping and mindless twits steering the ship...

This lot need to go ...... NOW

[simsalabim]

$1.90 .......this stock is seriously on the nose.

[The Green Goblin]

Now that Ansett have been wound up, the administrators need something else to sink their teeth into.

How much did the administrators make out of the carcass of Ansett and does the current Qantas board have any connections to them?

I suspect Qantas would be the golden goose to administrators with all those prime terminals, equipment and facilities.

We already know AJ has his next position lined up. A rat deserting the sinking ship? It seems they jump ship a year before the end. His new tenure is lined up for 2012.

Perhaps 2012 is the end of the world as we know it?

['holic]

It would be interesting to know what the lease terms are and who was involved in arranging them, rumour has it that some lease terms on certain aircraft are crippling qf, where does the money trail lead? I've been wondering exactly the same thing, particularly the arrangement where JQ are leasing 5 A320s owned by QF. If you think about it, this arrangement must fall under 1 of 3 scenarios :

1. The leases are cost neutral to both QF and JQ
(ie. JQ pays QF exactly what it costs QF to own and maintain the aircraft, neither group profits)
If this is the case, why go to the trouble of having a more complicated leasing structure when JQ could own the aircraft at the same cost? Also, isn't the idea of being an aircraft lessor to make a profit, in return for all the risks associated with owning, maintaining and leasing out your aircraft?

2. QF make a profit from JQ
Ok, this would make sense to me. But why wouldn't JQ look at owning the aircraft themselves if it was cheaper than leasing?

3. JQ make a profit from QF
Naaah ... never happen.

[Pappa Smurf]

Whats the panic----all shares are going down.
Qantas and Virgin both down 30% since December.

[ampclamp]

Both being down does not make it "OK".
The problem is shareholders and what they are prepared to pay for a little piece of Qantas. In the month of June they have broken lockstep.VBA has broken its trend, at this time.
It is only a shareholder revolt that will change things at Qantas.They own the company.

[What The]

angryrat,

You forgot:

Leigh Clifford - Senior Advisor to KKR (Kohlberg Kravis Roberts & Co.)

You should send the list to an investigative journalist and see whether there are some interesting goings on. Something doesn't seem right in Kansas IMHO.

[Gas Bags]

Angry Rat,

Ansett Worldwide Aviation Services has never been in administration. They were and are a completely different company to Ansett Australia which went into VA in 2001.

GB

[The Green Goblin]

Peter Costello would be the man to turn the place around.

Lots of presence, can actually speak in public and has the political connections. He also knows how to manage money and deliver surpluses (share holder returns) while promoting growth.

That is you can look past the train wreck of 'work choices' :ok:

[the_company_spy]

Ahh, you're all missing the #1 contends! Bruce will do a fine job and pick up where da little fella left off.

Fiddle de dee!

[Skystar320]

I might buy a packet worth $500 when they reach 0.10!

[What The]

Rob Gurney

[Hoofharted]

Rob Fyfe perhaps

[Redstone]

Angryrat, don't tell me Clifford has skeletons in his Chairmans Lounge closet?

[B772]

Lyell Strambi recruited Joyce to Ansett. If Strambi had not done so Joyce would most likely would still been with Aer Lingus and not celebrating his 45th birthday in Sydney on 30 June.

[kotoyebe]

During AJ's recent hospital stay, Strambi put out some internal emails condemning the engineers' EBA tactics. He appeared to be singing from exactly the same hymn book as GD, AJ et al. If those emails are an example of Strambi's employee relations, I wouldn't be putting my eggs in that basket as the solution to QF problems. Of course, it may have all been bluff...

[King William III]

It can't be ANY of the Dixon/Joyce club. They have all drunk from the poison chalice and can see no other way than the Orange way. :ugh:

We need a new management team who want AND KNOW how to grow a company.

Wouldn't that be a pleasant change!!

[Teal]

Was today's ACCC announcement not well received??


ACCC GRANTS INTERIM APPROVAL TO QANTAS AND AMERICAN
AIRLINES JOINT BUSINESS AGREEMENT

The Australian Competition and Consumer Commission has granted interim
authorisation for a proposed Joint Business Agreement (JBA) between Qantas and
American Airlines.

Under the proposed JBA, the airlines will coordinate operations on services between
Australia/New Zealand and the United States (the trans-Pacific routes), and on their
respective services which support the trans-Pacific routes. Qantas and American
Airlines do not currently compete directly on any routes.

Interim authorisation will enable the parties to undertake a coordinated sales and
marketing campaign in both Australia and the United States. Qantas recently
commenced services to Dallas/Fort Worth and has sought interim authorisation to
support this service. The granting of interim authorisation in no way binds the ACCC
in its consideration of the substantive application for authorisation.

Authorisation provides immunity from court action for conduct that might otherwise
raise concerns under the competition provisions of the Competition and Consumer
Act 2010.

Broadly, the ACCC may grant an authorisation when it is satisfied that the public
benefit from the conduct outweighs any public detriment. The ACCC has sought
submissions from interested parties on Qantas and American Airlines' substantive
application for authorisation. A draft decision on the substantive application will be
issued in August/September.

[Baileys]

CEO letter to "Plane Talking" leads me to believe that the CEO honestly believes he is doing a good job and none of this is caused by poor management.

I do believe they are deluding themselves. Frankly I am amazed.

[Spikey21]

AMP obviously saw the writing on the wall and sold the last of their interests on the 4th.

Just mums and dads left around the campfire :(

[Nothing but blue sky]

Total Shareholder Return

1 Year -13.6%
3 Years -12.1%
5 Years -4.5%
10 Years -1.3%

No recent dividends, no know growth prospects for the future, no interest from institutional investors, no positive coverage from any investment banks...

No wonder there are 3 sellers to every 1 buyer of QAN at the moment.

[Oldmate]

Probably already posted somewhere, but an interesting link from an asx writer:

Which Aussie Icon is on the Ropes? (http://www.moneymorning.com.au/20100812/which-aussie-icon-is-on-the-ropes.html)

[Seabreeze]

Reposted from D&G Q

A quick look at some Chinese stats (say at China General Information, China Information, the People's Republic of China) shows huge growth. We all seem to know this and it is all over the media.

Even in 2007 there were an estimated 80 million in the middle class (income RMB from 50,000 to 500,000 p.a.). Many of these people will fly regularly.

International air traffic in and out of China is growing substantially with China Southern, China Eastern, Hainan and Air China all offering increasing services to/from Australia.

A quick survey (may not be entirely correct) shows that Qantas by comparison has one direct return a day to Shanghai (QF129/127), no direct flights to Beijing or Guangzhou (but you can get there via Hong Kong or Shanghai via Dragonair). There are single daily services between Aust and Hong Kong from Brisbane (QF 97/98) Sydney (QF 127/128) and Mel (QF 29/30), but Cathay is certainly working hard to develop its share.

I am too lazy to do the legwork, but a quick glance at the numbers of flight shows that the bulk of the ASKs (Aust-China) are flown by the Chinese airlines, and their share is incraesing.

The elephant (a really big one) in the room is China, and many Australian businesses are working hard to get a share of that market, Qantas excepted.

Does the Qantas Board and the CEO realise there is an elephant in the room? Is it a cunning trick to lull the opposition Chinese carriers into a false sense of security by giving them a head start (tortoise and the rabbit stuff)?

Seems to me the Board and CEO are fiddling while Rome is burning; playing silly buggers on relatively miniscule (to the company bottom line) EBA issues while the major business of the airline (developing and implementing a sensible Chinese strategy) is being ignored.

Of course what does a simple Ppruner know? - perhaps not much, but the Shareholders are very unhappy right now with a Qantas share price on a two year low of <$2 today.

[Lodown]

I won't be touching any QF shares. The company has been stripped bare. Bones only with no meat. A380 was a shocker IMO. Flew on VA's 777 across the Pacific after several trips on QF and that told me that QF was going out backwards if it didn't get it's act together. Despite the rhetoric on innovation and competitiveness, QF relies on government regulation for most of its competitive advantage. That and landing slots.
But never mind...a Labor Party has too much at stake to let QF fail. It'll print a boatload of money, buy it back, appoint government administrators and then change the rules to make sure QF remains in business, if not competitive.
The Australian economy is getting pushed to a precipice with a screwed up leadership with a communal attitude and a lazy, overtly confident population expecting the government to hand out everything. No wonder gold prices are going through the roof.

[gobbledock]

To answer ejctx3 question - QF shares hit $2.00, discuss
My answer is SELL SELL SELL !

[Sunfish]

If Qantas really wants to destroy itself, let it start a joint venture with a Chinese partner....

...To tap the "Huge Asian Market".

By all means run daily flights from and to China under the QF banner.

[walaper]

Current price is around the float price of 1995 (i think thats about right) Glad I was given my shares:}

[Jetro6UL]

Current price is around the float price of 1995 (i think thats about right) Glad I was given my shareshttp://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/badteeth.gif

QAN are currently below the 1995 $1.90 float price, lol.

$1.89 close on Friday afternoon.

[Xcel]

How low would it need to go before the likes of maq bank on it's own without any consortium could afford it... A true monopoly - buy the airports and charge everyone exorbitant fees - use this money to reinvest back into aircraft and infastructure - essentially making everyone unable to afford to fly where you alone can ... What bonus would aj get for making this happen??

Do I win something?? I'm proud of that conspiracy theory - sitting watching "inside job" the mind a boggles!!

[Jetro6UL]

^^^Qantas's market cap is just over 4 billion.

There are miners on the west coast that could buy it......you don't have to be a merchant bank!!

[YOSHI]

Xcel,


I'm with you. I think the idea is to deliberately drive down the share price. Then, when they announce the end of year profit AJ and his team get their bonuses in DOLLAR VALUE of Shares. I.E. the LOWER the share price the more shares they receive. THEN settle with the Unions and the share price rebounds above the two dollar mark, to where it's real value is, and AJ and the boys reap the benefit. But that's just my conspiracy theory...................

[arkmark]

I remember almost 10 years ago they were $ 3.15 when the ever generous Qantas allocated me $ 1000.00 worth of shares as a valued staff member. (317 odd shares)

Of course they issued extra scrip to do so, immediately driving down the value of those very shares.

QF shares have never been worth that since that time.

Adjusted for inflation that $ 1000.00 is now worth $ 750.00 ish. That's a loss of $ 250.00

With the current value of those shares at $ 634 after a 10 year investment, with inflation applied, that $ 1000.00 is now worth $ 384.00

Any half decent investment yielding 10% would have earned $ 1000.00 interest, so......

The total loss in a 10 year investment in Qantas shares for an initial capital investment of $ 1000.00 is ($616.00)

(61.6%) LOSS over 10 years people.

Wow what a great investment. I would recommend it to any super fund manager. Imagine the q dos you would get for investing in the prestige of the airline industry and how many long lunches and free flights you will get.

[walaper]

YOSHI ,assuming such conspiracy theories you give the management of that outfit far to much credit .Bad management will achieve the same end;)

[gobbledock]

It is nothing new that investing in airlines is a waste of money. The only people who make money out of airlines are the Execs who receive their allotment for free, gaurenteed money for jam.
When will people learn.

[629bus]

Bascic facts are;

QF will become QF asia, and then only will slowly implode.
QF mainline will fade into a lady boys shallow fart, Patong has what to offer on the wall.
QF nice knowing you but its time for VB to mark a line in the sand, and move foreward and take control.
JQ=YES
VB=YES
QF=not looking so goog

[Oldmate]

Just noticed that the volume of q shares traded on Friday was significantly higher than average. Does this mean anything? I imagine Thursday's board meeting will be interesting.

[packrat]

Today Thursday 16th QF Share Price:$1.85

[neville_nobody]

Warrenn Buffett ain't stupid

The worst sort of business is one that grows rapidly, requires significant capital to engender the growth, and then earns little or no money. Think airlines. Here a durable competitive advantage has proven elusive ever since the days of the Wright Brothers. Indeed, if a farsighted capitalist had been present at Kitty Hawk, he would have done his successors a huge favor by shooting Orville down.

[ejectx3]

Why shouldn't airlines make money? They are just providing a service like any other business. The problem is they don;t charge enough for a ticket to cover the external shocks they often suffer.

Surely, like any other business, you work out a long term cost of running the show, add a margin and hey presto! A working business model!

This sounds logical to me. Tell me why other transport businesses can work but not airlines?

[Terrey]

Fell off a cliff today ! Closed at $1.81 !!!!!!

[QFinsider]

eject..

A couple of reasons.

Capital costs (huge)
Variable revenues, extremely sensitive to external shocks (natural/man made)
Long term nature of the purchased capital asset
"Bilaterals", thus the routes remaining an arm of government policy.

Makes a good argument for a public good really.

[skybed]

$ 1,41 by August.:{

[gobbledock]

Fell off a cliff today ! Closed at $1.81 !!!!!!
So it is true then that 'you can't polish a turd' !! The more the Execs try to polish the Rat the more that it's real worth (or is that Wirth) is revealed.
The QF submarine is sinking - Blow the tanks, 3 degrees nose down, increase spped to 11 knots DIVE DIVE DIVE !!

[waren9]

Well, when you focus your business around the discretionary dollar, what do you expect?

When things tighten up, the discretionary dollar is the first one to disappear. Well done done, REG.

When I did accounting at school we studied "adding value". NZ grows a **** load of pine trees, AFAIK none of it is exported as raw logs. Rob Fyffe has the same idea.

[B772]

Shareholders and no doubt some board members would be horrified if they knew how poorly the QF group is now managed. No doubt the share price will continue to decline. With the J* call centre now in the Phillipines the events of the past few days due to the volcanic ash has left a bitter taste in the mouth of J* passengers. There were so many calls on hold the recorded messages said the wait to speak with an operator was 8hours.

Passengers were being told there was no availability to Hobart for 6 days and there was no point in going to Melbourne airport on standby as the flights are oversold. No staff have any authority to make simple decisions. Yet J* flights were leaving with empty seats due to noshows. Apparently QF had a B738 leave for Hobart with 131 empty seats yet J* took most of the available accommodation at the South Wharf Hilton with Dinner and Breakfast for stranded passengers.

I bet Virgin Australia are grinning.

[airtags]

While the very sad close reflects a less than shining day on ASX and other markets the Q price again showed a disproportionate loss by comparison to other benchmark stocks.

The Board stack announcement with the French Connection & Joyce's spruiking about a further 100m cut and the canx of the a/c just did not inspire the market who largely have deomonstrated that they believe the CEO and the Board is on the nose. The trade in the QF shares and the risk rating by brokers is yet again proof that under Clifford & Co and their little puppet QF is only a viable watch for the stock flippers (those who buy at crisis and flip within a 4-5% margin).

Of note is the fact that the a/c canx centres on the much proclaimed 738's which the need for them lessened with the overnight re-birthing of the previousy NZ reg'd and operated five 737's.

The canx a/c and cuts which are within red tailed business, also confirms the increased capacity for the orange cancer - note that while jobs are being axed from mainline CC ranks (VR still equals axing jobs) JQ is ramping up its recruitment.

- QF is again being lined up for another squeeze it seems.

It is such a shame that the Orange Emperor who is always so quick to abuse the staff, pilots and engineers with cliches and kamakaze references does not embrace other Japanese conventions for failed leaders.

AT

[runesta]

complain about low share prices? how many of you complained when the share price was at an all time high :E remember what happened back then? o yes, it was the sale to the Texas Pacific Group - any one here really want that to happen again?

[packrat]

If an offer is made and the threshold acceptance is reached refusing to sell is futile.Your shares will be compulsorily acquired

[FlexibleResponse]

According to Commsec the share price closed at $1.81 today for a Market Capital of $4.1 B but, the "Book Value" per share was $2.62.

With a margin like this, a canny takeover asset-stripper company could make quiet a small fortune.

The lower the share price goes the better the margin and profit for such a takeover event...

To find out who benefits most from such a strategy of pushing the share price down, they say you should always follow the money trail.

Watch those who are still friends of Suzie...

Edited to show $4.1 B instead of $4.1 M as pointed out by Icarus...Thanks.

[B772]

Flexible Response.

The "Book Value" of $2.62 per share you refer was current at 30/06/10. We do not know the current book value or the contingent liabilities.

There are some very interesting financial statistics for QF which applied as at 30/06/10.

Total Current Assets $5,832,000,000. Total Current Liabilities $6,241,100,000
Return on Capital 3.0% (Pre Joyce 30/06/08 10.0%)
Return on Equity 2.9% (Pre Joyce 30/06/08 13.0%)
Net profit $112,000,000 (Pre Joyce 30/06/08 $969,000,000)
Net profit margin 1.2% (Pre Joyce 30/06/08 4.7%)

[Sunfish]

Could I be forgiven for thinking that QF is in play?

[packrat]

Watch for stock movements right before market close today
Friday

[Icarus2001]

for a Market Capital of $4,100,000

Wow they are in trouble. Many people could buy them out at only $4.1 million.

[busboy330]

Maybe you should add three zeros to the end of that market cap value. It should be 4.1 BILLION.

[Capt Kremin]

20 minutes to go and no great spike in price or volume yet.

[FlexibleResponse]

Flexible Response.

The "Book Value" of $2.62 per share you refer was current at 30/06/10. We do not know the current book value or the contingent liabilities.

There are some very interesting financial statistics for QF which applied as at 30/06/10.

Total Current Assets $5,832,000,000. Total Current Liabilities $6,241,100,000
Return on Capital 3.0% (Pre Joyce 30/06/08 10.0%)
Return on Equity 2.9% (Pre Joyce 30/06/08 13.0%)
Net profit $112,000,000 (Pre Joyce 30/06/08 $969,000,000)
Net profit margin 1.2% (Pre Joyce 30/06/08 4.7%)

B772 is correct...

[Fatguyinalittlecoat]

On Friday:

Balanced Equity buys 22.7m Qantas Airways shares

[The Kelpie]

Balanced Equity have been a substantial shareholder in QANTAS for a long time and where I believe one of the organizations that publically rejected the proposal for the APA Takeover.

Having said that Andrew Sisson has in the past been very supportive of AJ but not sure what his current thoughts are on the subject.

More to follow

The kelpie

[Sunfish]

Damn! Andrew Sisson has smelled the same rat! Qantas is now officially "in play."

What Sisson has done is accumulate a "blocking" holding that a bidder will have to take out to get the company I suspect.

Balanced Equity buys 22.7m Qantas Airways shares

Published 5:36 PM, 17 Jun 2011



Source: News Bites

Balanced Equity Management Ltd bought a net 22,656,088 Qantas Airways Ltd shares between March 1 and June 15, 2011, increasing from 161,110,780 shares (7.11%) to 183,766,868 shares (8.11%).



From 2007:

The man who may decide if airline bid flies


March 18, 2007


Much hangs on how Andrew Sisson and Co value Qantas, writes Christopher Webb.

THE serious money people say he's brilliant and doesn't want or need publicity. Little-known Andrew Sisson is in the spotlight because he and other big investors could block the $11.1 billion board-backed private equity takeover of Qantas.

The Geelong-born Sisson, 54, runs a tiny boutique funds management firm called Balanced Equity Management, which he set up in 1988. At the start, there was so little money coming through the door that he couldn't pay himself a cent. Now, his firm would be one of the most profitable in the country and it's run on a shoestring with just 11 employees.

Along with team members Andrew McGann and Steven Fahey, he looks after $12.3 billion of Other People's Money. On behalf of its investor clients, Balanced Equity holds about $410 million of Qantas shares — about 4 per cent of the total.

If Mr Sisson and other professional investors, UBS Asset Management and possibly Maple-Brown Abbott, who between them hold about 12 per cent of Qantas, reject the bid from Airline Partners Australia, the takeover will not get 90 per cent of the shares. It would then fail.

Both Mr Sisson and UBS Asset Management have reportedly indicated to the Qantas board that the offer could be too low — between them, they've got just under 10 per cent, and that in itself is just about enough to stop the takeover. They want more information.

The stakes are huge, the pressure is on and the quietly spoken Mr Sisson, who favours grey suits, with a pink tie the only touch of flamboyance, gives the impression he is not enjoying the attention.

He'd prefer to be reading company reports or, when he's not working, following Hawthorn Football Club.

"At the moment there is this intense focus, which is not much fun," he says. "People are trying to second-guess what we're going to do and I've got to be very careful that I don't say anything which could be interpreted by somebody else as having an implication for the Qantas takeover."

Right now, the man who went to Melbourne University and before that Melbourne Grammar, is centre-stage. The media bailed him up at a corporate governance conference on Friday, wanting to know what he was going to do with his Qantas shares.

Would he sell them into the takeover or would he sit on them?

They were wasting their time. His stock response is that he hasn't decided and that he will continue to ponder just what Qantas is worth.

That is his line of work: figuring out what each of the 50 biggest companies listed on the stock exchange is worth.

About 96 per cent of the $12 billion or so he invests for his big superannuation fund clients goes into the shares of those top 50 companies. He is always fully invested and he's likely to have money in almost all of those companies. If he thinks a stock is cheap, he'll have more money in that one than another that he thinks is correctly priced, or another which he thinks is expensive.

"We're looking to invest in long-term value," he says.

"That really means we appraise each company and come up with what we think its sustainable value is. We just try to be more overweight in those companies that we think represent better than average long-term value.

"We try and value a company. We conceptually look at it and ask, 'How many millions is this company worth?' That is the sort of question we're trying to answer."

Ask people in the money game what they think of Andrew Sisson, who trained as an actuary before working as a fund manager for the old National Mutual Life group, and they always talk about his brain.

"He's outstanding. He's just intellectually brilliant," says one fund manager. "He's as straight as an arrow. He has a very low profile, but in a situation like this, he and his Balanced Equity company are in the public eye because he's a hold-out on the Qantas takeover.

"People are saying, 'Balanced who? Well, hey, that's Sisson, McGann and Fahey."

Over the years, Mr Sisson has made a lot of money out of options, futures, convertible notes and other not so ordinary investments.

To one professional money manager, that's another sign of Mr Sisson's intellect.

"Mathematically, he would eat that stuff for breakfast," he says.

"I would look at that rocket science and I'd probably get my mind around it if I studied it on paper and thought about it, whereas he just does it in a canter."

Twenty years ago, he saw how the late Robert Holmes a Court was able to make profits by trading BHP shares in circles — selling the shares only to immediately buy them back. He talked to Mr Holmes a Court about his BHP activities and the presumption was that he knew that Mr Sisson had figured out that the share-trading profits were not sustainable.

The next day, the wily share-trader offered Mr Sisson a job, which he accepted, but the 1987 sharemarket crash obliterated the Holmes a Court empire and Mr Sisson found himself out of a job six months later.

Mr Sisson then set up his own funds management business.

Since then he has beaten the 50 leaders sharemarket index — in the past seven years, Balanced Equity's return has been 14.5 per cent a year, compared with 13 per cent for the index.

"We're not a high-risk manager," he says.

"It would be fair to say that the best performance period for us was for the four years from the top of the dot-com bubble.

"That was when we were really shooting the lights out. In the current environment, it's not quite as easy."

Meanwhile, the mild-mannered Mr Sisson — one friend reports he has never heard him swear — and his team will be thinking, thinking, thinking about just what Qantas is worth.

And the Macquarie Bank-led private equity consortium will be sweating right up to his decision.

D-day is April 3, when the $5.45-a-share offer is due to close.



The man who may decide if airline bid flies - Business - Business (http://www.theage.com.au/news/business/the-man-who-may-decide-if-airline-bid-flies/2007/03/17/1174080219600.html)

[B772]

Andrew Sisson; the MD of Balanced Equity Management is a member of the Australian Takeovers Panel.

[Ka.Boom]

Probably the reason the share price rose a cent.Now that Sisson is involved other players will sit up and take notice.Perhaps the share price has bottomed as a result

[packrat]

Wonder what Fiani thinks about all this ?

[indamiddle]

i wonder what the rest of the other shareholders think about the share price?
i sold at $4.00, very happy now.

[gobbledock]

i wonder what the rest of the other shareholders think about the share price?
i sold at $4.00, very happy now.
I'm guessing they wish old Scrotum Face was still at the helm !
From memory indamiddle you must have sold around the last quarter of 2006/first quarter 2007 ? So many moons ago, oh how things have changed somewhat. I imagine a day in the not so distant future when people will be saying 'I sold at $0.40 per share, very happy now' !!!

[ozbiggles]

It is interesting to note too when you look at the Qantas website for info about the Ash cloud to it directs you to a page that has words to the effect of
"sometimes we have delays/cancellations caused by things such as Weather and INDUSTRIAL ACTION".
It seems to me they are even getting their web site ready to take on the unions as well.
I'd be waiting a bit longer before I'd look at buying any shares based on that alone.
It also shows the siege mentality going on in the bunker at the moment that a few in management deem it necessary to put that on a company website blaming their staff for delays caused be industrial action when none has happened yet, when those very staff are coping with a disrupted travelling public and all the thrills that has at the moment.

[bobhoover]

What an embarrasment that QF management has to make such a statement regarding industrial action. Another typical example of blame shift. It is management that ultimately, will cause the industrial action due to their lack of "good faith" negotiation. This board and CEO, are and will be a stain on our aviation world.

[breakfastburrito]

http://www0.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/03b0caf8f5f90cb2bf9002a3bd51df0f054395f8afdc37c2bbb71aa908e4 44e25g.jpg (http://www.mediafire.com/imageview.php?quickkey=8kcffzrxwbd20b1&thumb=4)
Accessed Tue 21st June 2011 (my highlight)

[Lodown]

...or industrial action...

How friggin' puerile and immature is this?

[waren9]

I recall seeing that excuse being used plenty of times elsewhere, although I dont know whether their own staff was the context in which it was meant.

[TBM-Legend]

the "industrial action" might refer to refuellers/customs/air traffic controllers etc etc..

[Shed Dog Tosser]

Some trend up and down, others do not, Hmmmm.

http://hfgapps.hubb.com/asxtools/imageChart.axd?TF=D6&s=QAN
.

http://hfgapps.hubb.com/asxtools/imageChart.axd?TF=D6&s=BHP
http://hfgapps.hubb.com/asxtools/imageChart.axd?TF=D6&s=WBC

[cart_elevator]

"sometimes we have delays/cancellations caused by things such as Weather and INDUSTRIAL ACTION".

To be fair, that introduction paragraph has been at the top of their 'Major Disruptions' page for years. Nothing new, just a general disclaimer.

[ozbiggles]

Well staff management relations have been bad for a few years!
Bur point taken.
Its a shame the company deem it necessary to be there at all however. If it was the current reason I would agree they are within their rights to have it but its not a player at the moment.

[Going Nowhere]

Time for all staff to buy $1000 in shares?

[Oldmate]

Just heard on the ABC that Qantas shares have been put on a trading halt - is this to do with what the muppet is going to say at the press club?

Also did a quick add up from the notice on the ASX website, and Balanced Equities (Andrew Sisson) seems to have increased their holding by approximately 23 million shares - or $42 mil - since 1st of May. Then in today's paper Balanced Equities has been sold, not sure what it all means, but seems it is all happening NOW.

[stubby jumbo]

I think after today announcements its going to be a matter of:

BRACE ,BRACE ,BRACE.

HEADS DOWN, STAY DOWN X3
:eek:

[troppo]

www.asx.com

Code = QAN

Click on the asterisk beside QAN for details

Qantas requested and was granted the halt due to 'an announcement in relation to Qantas' financial outlook, which is likely to be considered materially price sensitive...'

[Shed Dog Tosser]

I bet Ansett staff did not see it coming.

I bet Flightwest staff did not see it coming.

I bet Macair staff did not see it coming.

I think the Senate enquiry, EBA "negotiations" and share price is scaring the pants of them.

Come on Nick and Bill, all the evidence has been presented, don't go weak in the knees, you know what needs to be done.

[Budfox]

Bit of a guess what this trading halt is about,

Would say AJ going to announce more negative stuff yadda yadda. They are going to look at a capital raising as well as cut %25 of workforce.
All doom and gloom nothing positive to come out of his gob.
What better place to try and raise money than in Nations Capital, and cry poor to the politicians :E
Just a guess all the above people. I cant imagine him going all the way to Canberra and singing the praises of just how wonderful his staff are :rolleyes:

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

Re QANTAS - Halts trading, on Financial News,

Qantas halts trading on financial news | Latest Business & Australian Stock market News | Perth Now (http://www.perthnow.com.au/business/business-old/qantas-halts-trading-on-financial-news/story-e6frg2qu-1226079779306?referrer=email&source=PN_Bus_email_nl&emcmp=PNBus&emchn=Newsletter&emlist=Member)

:(

[wessex19]

AJ adressing National Press Club in Canberra today at 12.30

[desmotronic]

Qantas shares in halt ahead of financial statement

By online business reporter Michael Janda

Qantas CEO Alan Joyce is expected to announce a major overhaul of the airline's international services (AAP: Sergio Dionisio)

Qantas shares have been placed in a trading halt ahead of a speech by the company's chief executive which is expected to announce a major shake-up of the airline's international operations.

The company's chief executive Alan Joyce is speaking at the National Press Club in Canberra, and The Sydney Morning Herald is reporting that Mr Joyce will outline a major overhaul of Qantas's international operations.

Qantas's request for the trading halt indicated that the airline would be making an announcement in relation to its financial outlook.

The airline industry has already seen profits hit by rising oil prices, natural disasters and a fragile economy - the volcanic ash cloud over many of Australia's major airports has further dented revenue due to cancelled and delayed flights.

Mr Joyce's speech will be broadcast live on ABC News 24 at 12:30pm (AEST) which is streamed live on the ABC News website.

[TIMA9X]

Qantas shares halted ahead of update (http://www.smh.com.au/business/qantas-shares-halted-ahead-of-update-20110622-1ge9v.html)

A few more details here

[packrat]

After an initial bounce to $1.89 the share price has settled at $1.85 still way below the float price.
The market doesnt see that Qantas has a point of difference or is being managed well

[surfside6]

Well nobody is buying AJs fairytale except for a few sychophantic journos.
The market thinks its a big fib with the share price hovering around $1.82.
No dividend.
No growth
No plan
Just yada yada yada

[Rollingthunder]

I guess that after 30 years in the business, I really don't understand the business. I don;t know so many are not prospering (aside from incompetent management). Anyone considering a ship journey Sydney to LA? New York to London? Train? Air travel is indespensible and it can't make money!

[SeldomFixit]

The Qantas Sale Act.
How to subvert it?
Just keep watching.

These people are filth.:ugh:

[noip]

$1.79


Sigh.

N

[troppo]

Another heavy day of trading. Nearly 20m shares. Someone is off loading and someone is buying and I would think that someone is going to have to declare an interest soon. Circa 300m shares changing hands month to date or about 13% of the issued shares.

[Shed Dog Tosser]

I predict in the 1.60's within a month.

[Ultergra]

Interesting AJ...

Good move, way to attack AIPA with the world watching.

AJ: Really, what did you "ANNOUNCE" ...??

NOTHING!! This was an announcement to announce that on Aug 24, he will make an announcement.

QF called for a trading halt, as then the whole fricken world will be watching his sob story that he is apparently losing money. This is a stage that AIPA can not fight on, which is very bloody sad.

This is QF warfare at it's best. It's time to vote yes, screw then for every single dollar and cent we can all drain out of their little slush fund. They do have deep pockets, but they dont want to lose money. So lets pressure them to a point that they threaten to close doors.

The lights are out if we sit on our hands. QF can't afford to fight for too long. They can't and they wont. They are calling our bluff. Now is time.

[standard unit]

The last two posts sound reasonable to me.

[Romulus]

Interesting AJ...
QF called for a trading halt, as then the whole fricken world will be watching his sob story that he is apparently losing money. This is a stage that AIPA can not fight on, which is very bloody sad.

Why not? Of course you can fight in this territory, AJ has raised the story now you can use it against him. Pilots earn too much – how much is the average pilot wage, what is the average pay of senior management as a comparison? How many useless positions are there? What are the loads the pilots cart around the world – i.e. demonstrate that if QF get rid of the hangers on then suddenly they become very profitable.

Pilots (and Engineers) are asking for too much – well, what HAVE their pay rises been? How does that compare to the Board and CEO? Management in general? Can’t talk for pilots but if the average Engineer is earning $150K then I’d be stunned and furthermore if the average cost centre related manager (i.e. those not directly involved in getting passengers moved who would be profit centre management) ISN’T earning at least $150K then I’d be double stunned. Frame the argument as a response to AJ’s BS and use it against him. But you MUST keep it short sharp and sweet, and (for the pilot rep) stop coming across as some pompous spoilt flyboy. Engage with people in general, don’t be all haughty and get everyone offside or you lose big time. You need support.


This is QF warfare at it's best. It's time to vote yes, screw then for every single dollar and cent we can all drain out of their little slush fund. They do have deep pockets, but they dont want to lose money. So lets pressure them to a point that they threaten to close doors.

Makes you as bad as them and you will lose any public support you have for your case with that approach (and rghtly so). You will give AJ exactly what he is looking for – a stick to beat you with. Ask for what you like but take something reasonable.

[Tankengine]

Every time I go to work I either make money for the company or help mitigate loss. Can senior management say the same?:confused::{

[FlexibleResponse]

Could it be the intention of senior management to run the share price into the ground so as to allow a "private" third party to takeover Qantas shares at minimum cost thereby defrauding the current shareholders the fair value of their shares?

Management could always blame intransigent and greedy union officials and workers for the failure of Qantas to remain competitive and thereby justify management's and the board's recommendation to the now poor shareholders to accept the takeover bid when it inevitably arrives...

Son of "Project Suzie" is coming back for revenge..?

Alas, all the other so called "issues" are a smoke screen for the real agenda.

[B772]

The share price is now less than what it was 15 years ago.

[packrat]

The institutional shareholders must be ecstatic(not) unless of course they know something that we dont

[tail wheel]

$1.805 this morning! Is that not a 10% decline in three weeks? Surely J P Morgan and HSBC are wondering where their investment is going? :confused:

[packrat]

.......how low can the share price go?

[dodgybrothers]

when do the financiers start to question the debt to equity?

[breakfastburrito]

J P Morgan and HSBC are wondering where their investment is going?. These Bullion banks (http://www.lbma.org.uk/pages/index.cfm?page_id=63) are also Primary Dealers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primary_dealer) AKA "The Banksters". They are rarely on the "wrong" side of the trade. Their clients on the other hand...

No such worries for JP Morgan, which just reported that it lost money on exactly zero days in Q1, averaged $112 million in daily trading revenue and had 7 days in which the firm had trading profits of “more” than $160 million, including 2 days unbounded by an upper limit range.

Next, we expect Goldman and Citi to do the same. It is a good thing markets are not zero sum, or else someone may ask just who (or rather which taxpayer) is the loser to all these “trading perfection” days…

JP Morgan Banksters Report PERFECT Trading Quarter, Make $112 Million In Average Daily Trading Revenue (http://www.infiniteunknown.net/2011/05/08/jp-morgan-banksters-report-perfect-trading-quarter-make-112-million-in-average-daily-trading-revenue/)

These banks have the best information, hence rarely ever lose money. Try this google search perfect trading quarter (http://www.google.com.au/search?aq=0&oq=perfect+trading+qua&sourceid=chrome&client=ubuntu&channel=cs&ie=UTF-8&q=perfect+trading+quarter).

Is the game rigged? </rhetorical>

[blackhand]

Information from the Australian Stock Exchange floor is that rumours from PPROON is scaring the major investors. ;)

[packrat]

I think that was said with tongue in cheek.
If not then major investors should be requesting further information from the QF Chairman...if they can find him

[Xcel]

1.60 is my pick before an "injection" and strategy announcment

cmon someone has to go out on the limb and say it...

[ejectx3]

Late buying today...could this be the turning point?


EDIT Just realised this graphic updates daily as the daily movement....
http://chart.finance.yahoo.com/t?s=QAN.AX&lang=en-AU&region=AU&width=300&height=180

[Baileys]

My bet - short covering.

[skybed]

when the pilots PIA is approved in a couple of weeks and they start working to the rules my tip is the share price goes to $ 1.40:{
However , I think the CEO has briefed major investors on this short term fluctuation.
The end game however........who knows

[ampclamp]

As a shareholder[ small yes] I want the same briefings please AJ.
The whole market should be informed. That is the law.

[tail wheel]

Last sale $1.87 on 19.2 million shares for the day. I wonder why the increase on a day the markets dropped? Speculators or an institutional buyer?

"The stock has lost about a third of its value since November."

[packrat]

The support level for the stock seems to be $1.80 and at that price buyers pile in.Likely someone is topping up.Someone has information they are not sharing?

[ampclamp]

ASX QAN short sales as of 24/6/11.
17% of the daily turnover was listed as short sales.
% of listed capital listed as short 0.10%

[gobbledock]

The share price has nowhere left to go, except down.
The cost cutting measures introduced by Darth around 2003, the fallout from those cuts, bad management decisions, disenchanted workforce and the list goes on of endless issues has helped lead QF to where it is today. No more fat left on the bone anymore.
Combine this with the global sh#tstorm that is imminent as evidenced by the financial condition of most of the worlds nations, and the next major crisis that will bite within the next 2 years - PEAK OIL, and you soon see why any airline today is a dud investment.
As for listening to J.P Morgan, Goldman, and others, they would sell you turds dressed up in gold dust and tell you to buy buy buy.

skybed,

when the pilots PIA is approved in a couple of weeks and they start working to the rules my tip is the share price goes to $ 1.40http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/boohoo.gif
Correct. $1.40 here it comes.

[Budfox]

My bet - short covering.

I agree with Baileys.

Bets on that bounce from here, after greek wobbles are delayed for a bit once new package agreed.

Rally due, start of new financial year also might bring in buyers ;)
Time will tell fun to watch the games :D

[packrat]

Well that didnt last long...back to $1.81 as 16.00 28th June.
Still the big guys are quiet

[The Kelpie]

A leading New Zealand aviation analyst has claimed it was cash, not ash, that grounded Qantas and Jetstar planes while plumes of Chilean volcano cloud hung over the Tasman Sea.



What with 3 billion in the bank?

Looks like Uncle Alan has been hiding the money again!

More to Follow

The Kelpie

[Xcel]

Nono kelpie he was right .... Cash in the form of more rightoffs to sign up to the international brand woohooo give it to them pilots aj they keep losing money don't they!!!

[Keg]

A leading New Zealand aviation analyst has claimed it was cash, not ash, that grounded Qantas and Jetstar planes while plumes of Chilean volcano cloud hung over the Tasman Sea.

The 'leading NZ aviation analyst' has just shown him/herself to be a first class dolt. The cost of grounding flights far exceeds the extra few ton of gas. Note too that QF still managed to get some of their JNB services where they needed to go- they did so by flying north of Mauritius and burning an extra 50 ton for the sector.

So by all means argue the wisdom of flying or not but anyone who says that QF grounded the fleet to save money is either deluded or ignorant. Either way, they're crap at being an 'aviation analyst'.

[waren9]

I would agree with you Keg, when the normal rules apply I.e. you normally make money

I disagree with the propoganda the Tasman and NZ ops are profitable for QF group.

If you already have sold the tickets and then refuse to fly on the basis of "safety" and then convert the recovery flying into vastly increased load factors with disrupt pax then I can see the sense in not flying unprofitably if you dont have to.

Hmmmmm

[Keg]

Fair point Waren9 but aircraft lease payments still need to be made and a few full aeroplanes don't make up for having them parked. Wages are still paid, accommodation and food costs too. It's a pretty significant bill and I can't see them making up for it with a few full aeroplanes- particularly when a number of people just cancelled travel outright.

[waren9]

Agree Keg, no they dont.

I contend its the lesser of 2 evils. Fuel makes up maybe 30-40% of costs? What are the ones you mention?

[FlexibleResponse]

I think we need to watch the big picture.

There are the same big swinging dicks out there with severely bruised egos from the last parry that need soothing...

[27/09]

Keg,

Fair enough on your comments about analysts. However.....

Note too that QF still managed to get some of their JNB services where they needed to go- they did so by flying north of Mauritius and burning an extra 50 ton for the sector.



Riddle me this....

If Qantas thought it safe to continue flying on some routes why was it unsafe to fly other routes?

[Mr. Hat]

ATO targets foreign firms, offshore profit in crackdown | The Australian (http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business-old/ato-targets-foreign-firms-offshore-profit-in-crackdown/story-e6frg8zx-1226084437300)

Enjoy:ok:

[Keg]

27/09, QF re-routed flights to JNB. Out of Sydney they headed to Alice Springs before heading back south west towards Perth. Tech stop Perth and they then blasted off northwest by a long way to completely avoid any forecast/ known areas of ash- including not flying under any.

Bit hard to do that with NZ, ADL or MEL flights.

[Captain Gidday]

I'm with Keg. The analyst is a goose with an agenda from an even more insular, isolated country than Oz. He needs to think more before he publishes stupid stuff.
Here's how it all really happens in the operations departments of [most] airlines.
Obviously, no responsible airline is going to deliberately fly into an area notified to be ash affected. That would be dumb. Imagine the negative press if you came out the other side with ash damage. So all airlines are automatically going to route clear of VAAC declared ash areas. That should be a given, or your airline is being pretty cavalier.
So then you think, do we need to apply buffers to the defined altitudes and areas? For example if the lower limit is FL250, can we fly at FL240, FL245? So you go back to the VACC and try to define a policy. Horizontal buffers, 20 miles? 50 miles? same process.
I'd say that nearly all airlines stopped at this point, having applied what they each determined to be appropriate buffers - in some cases, those buffers might be zero.
At Qantas Group, the decision makers clearly asked one further question. 'What about gravity?' So they kick this concept around for a while and they come to the conclusion that volcanic particles, being heavier than air, might fall out the bottom of the defined areas. At what concentration? No one can tell them. So the decision is made to avoid flying under the defined areas. No safe buffer underneath. All the way down to Sea or Ground Level is No Go.:=
And that, friends, is how the Qantas Group policy came to be different to pretty much everyone else. Simple as that. Nothing to do with 'saving money' by not flying. You are still paying 35000 people whether your aircraft are flying or not, and lease costs and quite a few other unintended costs as well. [By that I mean, for example, hotel costs and expenses for some of the disrupted passengers, adverse publicity and long term brand damage].
Who's likely to be correct? No doubt this is currently exercising the minds of those involved with the decision making processes at the various airlines.
The Other Airlines [the better ones anyway] would be increasing their inspection schedules on aircraft operating in proximity to ensure that they were not the ones on the wrong side of the call.
At Qantas Group, of course they would not have to do that for verification, but possibly would be doing it anyway.
Would it have been possible to tell in advance who was going to be right? Not absolutely, but if you think about it, how often does it rain out of cirrus or cirrostratus clouds? In other words, does gravity have an effect on the tiny ice particles contained in these clouds or do they pretty much stay suspended for long periods, days and weeks, blowin' in the wind, so to speak?
How do these ice particles compare with volcanic silica in size and mass? Will the silica stay up there also, almost indefinitely? Or does it slowly fall out of the upper atmosphere? At what rate? Is there some sort of trigger that might precipitate a concentrated fallout from the upper atmosphere? What might that trigger be? Care to bet a plane load of passengers on your decision/ best guess?
The above is how airline operations departments think, when confronted by such problems, particularly those in cautious, safety conscious airlines.
Obviously, number crunchers like analysts and accountants have no idea. Unfortunately, these folk end up running airlines. More's the pity.:uhoh:

[waren9]

Gravity. Is that it?

Either the particles fall out of the sky on their circumnavigation of the bottom half of the globe to get to Aussie/NZ or they dont.

Ergo, it is safe to fly under forecast ash areas, as also thought by every other airline except the QF group.

:hmm:

edited to add: even if there were ash particles still falling out of suspension, a) would you expect to see evidence on the a/c the flew under it, and b) wouldnt the forecast ash areas extend down to grd lvl?

[ad-astra]

I have heard from several sources that Qantas assisted their disrupted high end customers with their travel plans by re booking them on other carriers who were flying the Tasman during the recent chaos.

If correct it sits uncomfortably with their stance of not flying until it was "safe".

[Captain Gidday]

" Hello. Qantas Reservations? Rob Mercer from Forsayth Barr here**. [** Not the customer's real name]. I'm one of your frequent flyers and you've just cancelled my flight. Look, I really, really have to get back to Auckland for a meeting of the NZ Underarm Bowling Association but my ticket is endorsed as only for Qantas Group flights. Anything you can do to help?"
RES : "Certainly Mr Mercer. In the current circumstances, I am authorised to endorse your ticket over to another airline. Do you have a preference?"
MERCER : "Well, Air New Zealand are still flying. Can you endorse it to them?"
RES : "I'm sure we can help you out with that request. Sorry we can't get you to your meeting this time. Have a nice flight. Give our best wishes to Mr Fyfe".

Apart from the last sentence, that would be typical of many recent conversations on the Qantas Res Line and at Ticketing Desks at airports.
What's the problem?

[27/09]

Captain Gidday - Re message for the the real world.

What a lot ot tripe you wrote there. The odd man out here is Qantas. You know the old saying "When everyone is going in the opposite direction to yourself, perhaps it's you that's going the wrong way."

Do you think that may apply here? There's plenty of evidence to show that the dangers to aircraft are within a few hundred miles of and within a certain time frame of the eruption. Don't you think that Qantas has over reacted?

Better go now as the Chapple brothers are about to give a presentation on the art of Under Arm Bowling. :rolleyes:

[Trent 972]

Quoting 27/09 (Gravity Sceptic ???)
Better go now as the Chapple brothers are about to give a presentation on the art of Under Arm Bowling.
I hope the Chappell Brothers will be attending too.

[Going Boeing]

27/09 - your posts display a certain amount of arrogance.

Qantas is being more conservative than other airlines wrt volcanic ash but there is no way to know which airline has got it right. Qantas has experienced a volcanic ash encounter in the past (a B747 Combi) which was not particularly close to the eruption but the damage sustained was extensive with the repairs taking approx 8 months.

there is a lot of research going on as to what concentrations of ash are acceptable to fly in - until that research is complete, I'm happy to take a conservative approach.

[Keg]

You know the old saying "When everyone is going in the opposite direction to yourself, perhaps it's you that's going the wrong way."

And in different circumstances it's also known as 'group think'. :ugh: :rolleyes:

[DutchRoll]

Quoting 27/09 (Gravity Sceptic ???)
Well, gravity is only a theory, after all. ;)

[packrat]

Bit of drift gents

[ad-astra]

Packrat - Thread drift possibly but the perception of Qantas and its recent decisions have a very big impact on that share price.

Reports of ash-cloud damage to planes pie in the sky, say carriers | The Australian (http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/aviation/reports-of-ash-cloud-damage-to-planes-pie-in-the-sky-say-carriers/story-e6frg95x-1226080844479)

Captain Giday - "The problem" is twofold.

One - The perception that Qantas is more interested in its own reputation than its customers welfare.

Two - That the holier than thou attitude towards its competitors in making their own operational decisions will come back to bite Qantas quite squarely on its arse.

Its a very long fall from that high horse they are riding!

[Captain Gidday]

Ad-astra.
1. You're a Virgin pilot, Yes?
2. You appear to be losing your objectivity. Yes!
Apart from the above, love your work.

[ad-astra]

Captain Gidday

If the name of my employer is all that you can use to argue your point then so be it.

The perception does exsist in the wider community.

Funny thing objectivity ......isn't it.

In any case it will be the travelling public and the share market who decide.

[27/09]

Captain Gidday

The perception does exsist in the wider community.

Funny thing objectivity ......isn't it.

In any case it will be the travelling public and the share market who decide.

ad-astra +1

[packrat]

QAN opened 10 cents higher today to hover around $1.95

[Xcel]

The only way aj can up the share price... Rely on other brands to be managed even worse than his own house of bs:ugh:

[1a sound asleep]

Shares hit 2.02. Hey this plan is really working. Well done AJ and CASA

[unionist1974]

Just a $ 3.60 inrease will see it back to were it was before the bid was scuttled . Would be tempted to sell at thhat price . Can CASA ground a few more ? please!

[piston broke again]

VBA shares up 6.35% in early Thursday trade. QAN shares up 1%.

[piston broke again]

Make that 9.5% for VBA and 0.5% for QAN.

[B772]

David Hunt of Adest who has been described by the Australian Financial Review as the bell ringer is now calling for QF to fall to 69c per share. He says the institutions are deserting QF.

[tail wheel]

Closed at $1.79 last night.

[harrowing]

That would be in bad form, wouldn't it? :{

[the_company_spy]

David Hunt of Adest who has been described by the Australian Financial Review as the bell ringer is now calling for QF to fall to 69c per share. He says the institutions are deserting QF.



There goes da little fellahs bonus structure out the door, such a shame.

[airtags]

co-spy:
bad news there as the Orange Emperor has already secured his $11m 'performance/retention' bonus.

'Team Clifford' must be starting to sweat a little :E

PS - Loose Bruce pls note: as you have trouble with simple maths:
pls note that the 11mill is not calculated in NZ dollars either!!!!

[Shed Dog Tosser]

Just hit $1.64, that 50 cents, or about 25% of the share price in about a month, wow.

PIA is working.

[packrat]

The fall in the QF share price is a function of both a sharemarket rout and the perceived failure of Qantas Managment strategies.The fact that that no dividend has been forthcoming or is likely to materialize also marks the stock down.I bought on the bounce from $1.80 and sold at $2.00.I will not be touching this stock again.Cash is now king at 6.54% with some financial institutions.Head down...stay down

[tail wheel]

Currently quoting $1.66, down 4.86% on opening.

There goes another hit to my Super! :{

Nope, GFC 2 is looming.

With the European crisis now coupled to Yank stupidity, I suspect we are already in another recession.

Cash and gold are king!

I would have thought the smart money would be on airline consolidation, improved service levels and smart marketing in a tightening market, rather than some half @rsed idea to create a new off shore venture in a market already dominated by Cathay and the Chinese operators?

Protect your own house before you covert your neighbour's house! :=

[ANCDU]

Time for the double dip recession, unfortunately its not only Qantas, Virgin shares are taking a hiding today as well, last i saw down around 9%. This is a great excuse for QF execs to blame anyone but themselves for what is happening to the company. Expanding in Hong Kong...you have to be kidding me :ugh:. Cloud Cookoo land anyone?

[LondonSloop]

smart money would be on airline consolidation, improved service levels and smart marketing Yep! Informed reporting (CAPA) is with you Tail Wheel
International Consolidated Airlines Group (BA+Iberia) has just reported an operating profit of EUR32 million (1HY2010: EUR-309 million) and profit after tax of EUR71 million.

IAG’s result is the strongest of Europe’s “big three” network carriers, which also includes AF/KLM & LH.

Strong revenue gains, particularly in the long-haul premium segment, and prudent cost control measures, drove earnings in the period, and were strong enough to counter the spike in fuel costs.

[packrat]

Today 8th August 2011 Qantas Share price $1.62
Some hedge fund,some group,some company somewhere is going to pounce and probably before the 24th of August

[1a sound asleep]

8th Aug 2011 14:05 packrat

Qantas Now Super Cheap

Today 8th August 2011 Qantas Share price $1.62
Some hedge fund,some group,some company somewhere is going to pounce and probably before the 24th of August

I smell a rat too. I reckon AJ has been told what to do so there can be yet another bid, now at a super discount walmart low price.

Qantas is still one of the world's most consistently profitable international airlines and I dont think for one minute the buyers have gone away. Word recetly was that Dixon was cashed up and ready.

All really starting to become crystal clear:mad:

[Shed Dog Tosser]

A new record, $1.595.

[tail wheel]

Yes Tosser, last QAN sale $1.595, down 5.62% on the day. 18,839,821 shares traded - someone is buying?

Virgin last sale $0.250, down 1.96% on the day. Surprisingly 11,826,912 shares traded.

I haven't checked but isn't QAN's market capitalisation getting very close to their total net cash reserves?

If correct, Qantas is becoming an asset stripper's wet dream!

[waren9]

Sell J*, flog the rest off, pocket the cash.

Why hasn't it happened yet?:confused: Apart from the bit about J*'s books not being in order, that is.

[troppo]

I wonder what the spares inventory is worth :E

[Keith Nash]

I guess QF is just one of many under priced company's of which all the other ones aren't airlines. I suspect the players have are a bit spoilt for choice and there maybe limited Capital available at the moment. Having said that, it would appear to be only a matter of time.

KN

[Shed Dog Tosser]

Keith,

Look at how much QAN is losing daily, in terms of %, generally speaking it is a greater % than its competitors and other australian industry heavy weights, PIA is working.

[B772]

Shed Dog Tosser.

The QF low was on 3/3/09 when the shares traded at $1.38

Currently sellers out number buyers by 4 to 1 so there is little interest in the stock at present. The stock will drop below $1.50 today.

[Oldmate]

Opened at $1.49!

[tail wheel]

That was the offer. Last trade $1.505, down 5.96%

Virgin are down 8% at $0.23 last sale.

[my oleo is extended]

Wait til the Aussie market closes tonight. I predict another day of blood-letting. By the end of the week I wouldnt be surprised if QF reaches an all new record low.

[WorthWhat]

Which is $1.38, the lowest price QF shares dropped too when the Company raised fresh capital in 2009.

Anyone out there willing to predict what the 'price' of further capital raising will be this time round.

[1a sound asleep]

99 cents is coming

[my oleo is extended]

As of 1330 today:

Qantas Airways
ISIN : AU000000QAN2
SYMBOL : QAN
1.525-0.075 (-4.69%)Qantas Airways

Qantas Airways Shares
Price
1.525
Bid Price
1.520
Ask Price
1.525
% Change
-4.69%
Last Change Time
11:19:44
Volume
11,787,814
Open
1.490
High
1.530
Low
1.480
Yesterday's Close
1.600

You 'can't poilsh the turd' !!
But I am certain the Execs are putting a lot of elbow grease into their attempt !!

[Captain Peacock]

You 'can't poilsh the turd' !!
But you can roll it in glitter. :suspect:

[my oleo is extended]

But you can roll it in glitter. http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/cwm13.gif
So true. You can also 'toffee coat' the turd, but once you lick the tofee off you have.........................

[MR WOBBLES]

GAAM, Fly Lease

Now to some fancy flying by a stellar cast of local investors who have been the force behind the country’s second-biggest aircraft leasing business Global Aviation Asset Management and have now managed to sell it to US-listed FLY Leasing for $US1.4 billion. FLY is the former Babcock and Brown aviation leasing business and boasts former B&B execs Trevor Lowensohn and Phil Brown as its advisors. The merry cast at GAAM cashing in on the deal include former Qantas boss Geoff Dixon, his former CFO and former Leighton CFO Peter Gregg, former Allco boss David Coe, John Singleton and private equity investor Mark Carnegie. This team is now looking at multiple investment opportunities and Dixon has told The Australian Financial Review that they are looking to put together a bid to take over the management of the $6 billion portfolio of RBS Aviation Capital, the fourth-largest aviation leasing company in the world.


what timing Qantas looks cheap

[my oleo is extended]

Now to some fancy flying by a stellar cast of local investors who have been the force behind the country’s second-biggest aircraft leasing business Global Aviation Asset Management and have now managed to sell it to US-listed FLY Leasing for $US1.4 billion. FLY is the former Babcock and Brown aviation leasing business and boasts former B&B execs Trevor Lowensohn and Phil Brown as its advisors. The merry cast at GAAM cashing in on the deal include former Qantas boss Geoff Dixon, his former CFO and former Leighton CFO Peter Gregg, former Allco boss David Coe, John Singleton and private equity investor Mark Carnegie. This team is now looking at multiple investment opportunities and Dixon has told The Australian Financial Review that they are looking to put together a bid to take over the management of the $6 billion portfolio of RBS Aviation Capital, the fourth-largest aviation leasing company in the world.
what timing Qantas looks cheap
An amazing and timely coincidence ? Who would have thought that QF would ever hit such a low ? And who ever would have thought that former associates would end up in roles where they may possibly be in a position to pounce on the wounded QF and stand to make substantial money ?
What an incredible scope of timing that would be don't you think ?

Ejectx, should we rename this thread : QF shares to hit $1.00, discuss ?

[B772]

packrat.

I do not think QF is super cheap based on the current share price.

Their current liabilities including off balance sheet debt are greater than the value of their assets (By $570M approx.)

The most recent financials also show the following:

Net profit margin 1.2%

Return on equity 2.9%

Return on capital 3%

Dividend - 0%

From an investor perspective QF ownership has been a flop since it was listed
and especially under Joyce.

The total shareholder returns are as follows:

Over 1 year -36%
Over 3 years -21% average per year
Over 5 Years -11% average per year
Over 10 years -1% average per year

The above returns do not allow for capital loss due to inflation.

The QF Frequent Flyer Program (FFP) has just purchased Wishlist Holdings
and plans to offer more online retailing. It appears the FFP earnings in 2011/2012 will be greater than QF mainline and Jetstar combined.

Now we know why Virgin are planning a new frequent flyer program with Coles, Shell and Bunnings as major partners.

If it was not for the FFP QF would be stuffed.

Any buy and hold investors in QF need their head read. Even the QF Directors hold very few QF shares.

[skybed]

What does FF pay for premium seats to QF?:confused:

[ohallen]

rrmcdon,

That of course is based on an assumption that you can trust the accounting.

Would you, given what has been revealed and the statements from the company??

Suspect that it is best to have a profitable arm where there are no external measures with which to compare performance.

[TIMA9X]

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-pIj9oiET_QU/TkyuK7bgLmI/AAAAAAAABLU/pwYipPbZJWU/Qantas-shareprice-18-08-2011.JPG

Today's price 18-08-2011 4.26 pm
What was the price last Tuesday after the announcement when the business press said the market liked what Joyce said? :}

[virginexcess]

Close on the 16th at $1.53. Market clearly ecstatic at new direction Joyce is headed.

[ohallen]

Restores my faith in the market that atleast some understand what is going on, because I cannot see many thanks to QF spin and influence on media.

[ejectx3]

$1.49 GO ALAN!

[lame1]

At the next QF board meeting all you will hear is ALAN ALAN ALAN.I might buy some at $1

[my oleo is extended]

At the next QF board meeting all you will hear is ALAN ALAN ALAN.I might buy some at $1
Why buy at $1.00 when it will be $0.50 this time next year !!!

[Mstr Caution]

QF shares down 40% since Feb 2011 :ouch:

[Ka.Boom]

Qantas has around $3billion in cash on its books.
Its current sharemarket value is $3.4 billion.
Qantas almost offers it self up as a self funding takeover target

[my oleo is extended]

Qantas has around $3billion in cash on its books.
Its current sharemarket value is $3.4 billion.
Qantas almost offers it self up as a self funding takeover target
Hmmm, sounds like Darth taught him a trick or two ? Nothing like a good takeover bid to see the execs ousted with a nice fat paycheck !!
Once again, time for Senator Xenaphon to rattle the QF cage by having this entire sordid affair examined under a microscope.

[TIMA9X]

3.21 pm now 1.47.5 down 5.4% market down 2.88%, so much for that announcement last Tuesday, the market loved it according to the business press, I note the Q new spirit add gag is all over smh.com.au today... so don't expect anything like a story from them .:ouch:

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

$1.47 and falling. Was it something I said?

[TIMA9X]

$1.47 and falling. Was it something I said?

probably right mate, or is it the way you said it...;)

Now 1.455 6.7% down 4.31 pm

[Budfox]

Closed on new 52 week low :hmm:
$1.45 sheesh!! Will the all time bottom price be reached soon?????

Actually come to think of it just crunching some numbers in head.
The idea of releasing employees super to buy a stake in this is actually becoming quite cheap going of the latest closing market cap today.
Roughly 9k each employee will gain a %10 controlling stake ;)
That would make the employess majority shareholder and chance to sack the board :ok:

If only dreams would come true ;)

[my oleo is extended]

Now 1.455 6.7% down 4.31 pm It would seem that the toffee has well and truly been licked off the turd !!
If it looks like sh#t and smells like sh#t then it probably is sh#t, and it would seem the shareholders and the market are just starting to smell the sh#t......
Market confidence and the value of QF has reached a similar level as management's ability - an all time low !

[breakfastburrito]

Roughly 9k each employee will gain a %10 controlling stake
That would make the employess majority shareholder and chance to sack the board
Budfox, do your figures include shares already controlled by employees under employee share plans? If not, then for some this figure could be quite a bit lower than the 9K. (sorry don't have the info on what has been handed out over the years, I'm sure someone will).

Blocking stake is the game now.

[UPPERLOBE]

I know nothing about this, but, is it possible to form an employee or even a retired employee shareholder bloc?

[Budfox]

No that doesnt include any of the employees shares already owned.
Was just a round about figure calculated across the whole workforce to get to that amount.

So it is very possible that it would be a lot lower for some ;)
Why stop at %10 hey just release all the super and buy the whole company for just a tad over 3 bill lol :ok:

May as well it aint getting any better anytime soon.

[TIMA9X]

Aug 22-08-11
S&P/ASX 200 at 07:03 PM


4082.257-19.7-0.48%QAN
Last Price ($A) $1.4200 Change -0.0300 -2.1% Prev Close 1.4500


Hmm, down, -2.1%, the market average of -0.48%.

[my oleo is extended]

My my aren't the CEO and Board doing a wonderful job? A new record and an all time low! Congratulations!
I am wondering if the shareholders are all on holidays, have their heads buried in the sand or simply happy to see this new all time low set? Obviously you are all quite content to watch your investment keep sinking to the bottom of the corporate ****ter? Perhaps you think you are Dorothy from Wizard Of Oz and that the overpaid suits that you are trusting your investment with will click their heels three times and say 'There is no place like $6.00 per share'!!