Hungry Beast

[Terrey]

JETCONNECT | Hungry Beast (http://hungrybeast.abc.net.au/stories/jetconnect) :D

[Mr. Hat]

Oh that F%&n gold.

It needs to find a nice home on news.com !

[rodchucker]

Fantastic and pretty soon the Rat media department will be fighting for air time against all the mocking stuff.

Guess that's only fair!!!

[whatever6719]

Now THAT was sensational!!

Puts the message out very nicely indeed along with having a laugh.

Hopefully it goes viral!!

[wildwildwest]

funny as bro

[Mstr Caution]

Would Ms Wirth care to comment?

Absolutely brilliant, have already forwarded a link to all in my email address book.

[BeerMan]

We can all do our best to make it viral... share the link on Facebook and email and any other means possible to get it out there!!!

That's one of clearest messages we could get out to the travelling public!

[ozbiggles]

Thats choice ah bro
At the bottom of the abc page there are plenty of easy ways to share it around, including face book.

[Xcel]

For those with I-somethings...

YouTube - ‪Qantas: national airline, national outsourcer‬‏

from twu - only 1 view so far and it was me - hope it's a few hundred thousand by weeks end!!

[Captain Figjam]

Bravo, Bravo!!

We should all be firing off the link to this vid to everyone we know, get the message out and nurture/grow the momentum that has been built.

Wuckud as bro!

[The Kelpie]

PMSL

The Kelpie

[greenslopes]

Ne'er a truer word than that said in jest!

Chickens and roost or something along those lines.

[piston broke again]

That's gold!

[Mr. Hat]

If there was ever a time for a chain email to all friends and family this is it:

Make sure you use the hyperlink thingy if you are using hotmail or even better the youtube thingy otherwise it just comes out as just text.

[ThePaperBoy]

I've seen it posted by four friends on face book today. Good way to get info out to your average Joe. "If it's on face book it must be true!"

[napiersabre]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6WSJop5sG2c

A few years ago now but unfortunately still relevant.

[VBPCGUY]

Thats bloody awesome Bro:D

[Mr. Hat]

Oh thats gold. Send that one to the whole address book as well.

[AussieAviator]

I posted this one on a new thread a couple of days ago and the Mods immediately moved it to Jet Blast.:confused:

YouTube - ‪Pam Ann as Gloria Qantas - Spirit of Australia‬‏

[SMOC]

Great Vid, I'd change the name of the post, it'll probably get more hits with a more meaningful heading 'hungry beast' isn't something I would have clicked on but I had been sent the link so got it by default.

[assasin8]

Bravo to the Hungry Beast team for doing a brilliant job... The truth hurts, hey...

It was a real shame though, that it actually didn't air on the program (ABC1) on Wednesday night... Wonder if Auntie was "persuaded" to drop it from the program at the last minute?

Either way, it's alive and kicking on the net and I've done likewise and "educated the masses" with it... Got to love the internet!:ok:

[stewser89]

Yeah they just run out of speed apparently. Even though they advertised it the week before.

[Goat Whisperer]

They really get it.

They've done well to boil the Qantas/Jetconnect thing down and make it understood.

I reckon the skippers are on a poorer wicket than the "40% less" quoted. FOs too most probably.

And how many of them failed Qantas interviews yet fly Qantas passengers now?

[nike]

And how many of them failed Qantas interviews yet fly Qantas passengers now?

Pretty safe at picking a number close to zero.

[Goat Whisperer]

Crap.

I could name a handful, FOs, capts and checkies, and I don't know that many guys there these days.

[Poto]

This is the irony of the jet connect sham. QANTAS has knocked back a few of those drivers, only to allow Jet Connect to employ them via this mob:ugh:

[Oakape]

And how many of them failed Qantas interviews yet fly Qantas passengers now?

Sorry, but failing a QF selection process doesn't mean anything anymore. Too many people fail for shall we say 'political' reasons, to give any indication of ability.

[Anthill]

Plenty of people who passed the QF interview were hardly what you would call the cream of the crop, I know of 2 who could hardly hold down a job in GA. There was a running joke at YMMB in the '80s that you needed to be involved in a serious incident or accident to get a job at QF*. :p

Lots of people who 'failed' went on to have illustrious careers at other companies. QF selection is for a very narrow personality profile (Briggs-Myer - ESTJ ?) and if you are outside of this band (90% of the population are), you 'fail' selection. I am ENFJ but that hasn't stopped me in my career with type ratings that include B737, B747 & B767. :ok:


* Like hand starting a PN68 without chocking it or brakes on!:8

[Anthill]

BTW--Hungry Beast seems to have removed the video from its website. Did QF legal department complain to the ABC?

[noip]

Seems to be still there:
JETCONNECT | Hungry Beast (http://hungrybeast.abc.net.au/stories/jetconnect)

in any event ..

Firefox + Videodownloadhelper (https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/video-downloadhelper/) = Local copy

N


:)

[Popgun]

Yes, still there.

Faceb**k it, Tw!tter it, and email the link to as many friends, family, colleagues and pollies as you can!

This industrial fight will not have just one silver bullet. A multi-pronged battle is what will win it.

PG

[Keg]

The point that Poto is trying to make is not about whether or not the QF selection process is effective, it's the irony that having said that certain candidates didn't meet the criteria to fly for mainline, they are subsequently OK to fly Qantas coloured aircraft wearing Qantas uniform.

The same point can be made about J* too. Note, this is NOT that QF pilots are better than others, it's just that mainline says a candidate is not suitable but elsewhere in the 'group' (which at every turn emphasises that their standards are one and the same) has a number of crew who were told 'not suitable' by mainline.

[QFinsider]

If the internet and youtube can knock over an Egyptian regime, it can knock over this sandcastle of crap called "executive management" and a totally complacent board.

furthermore, it is of no use playing the man. Do jetconnect pilots receive the same amount of training as Q drivers on the 73? If not why not?

[PPRuNeUser0161]

If it looks like Qantas, smell's like Qantas, It is ..........!
SN

[UnderneathTheRadar]

If it looks like Qantas, smell's like Qantas, It is ..........!

Soon to be Jetstar?

JitConnict will only last until such time as there is no business class market left to NZ or J* have barstardised their model into providing two classes on the narrow-bodies.

UTR

[PPRuNeUser0161]

Soon to be Jetstar!

Or the other way round.
SN

[noknead]

Here's another one but it has been around for quite some time......

YouTube - ‪Airline Safety Video FUNNY!!! MAD TV‬‏

[Wally Mk2]

That QF/Jetconnect Vid is one of the funniest & saddest I've seen in ages trouble is it will go straight over the heads of the traveling public 'cause as long as they get cheap fares they won't care less or really take much notice & even less do something about it. Going public with these fights is admirable but the Goons at the top know that the effects are minimal.
I've asked a few people I know at random who know nothing of aviation just as a test & not one responded in the positive about what's going on at QF other than to say are they safe? Only the 'safe' part is filtering thru to the public level. T&C's, jobs going offshore etc few know about that in any detail.

The answer? Sh*t I wish I knew but it's gunna get worse b4 it gets better I reckon:sad:


Wmk2

[PPRuNeUser0161]

Wally II
It can't be stopped. The world is getting smaller and total globalisation is inevitable. In twenty years from now these will be the "good old days" to those who are just starting out.
SN

[Wally Mk2]

Ya right 'SN' I hear ya mate. Aviation was invented thru determination & some fwd thinking clever people knowing it would bring the world together, IE make it smaller. be of great benefit to mankind. Jobs, an industry that for years boomed. I wonder now what thoughts would have gone thru the heads of our forefathers who had visions of flying around the world for everyone if they knew what has become of aviation now, a grubby world of dog eat dog where CEO's have little regard for the people at the coal face:ugh: It's ugly & I'm almost ashamed to be part of it:sad:


Wmk2

[TeHoroto]

So to get this straight are you guys saying that the Jetconnect pilots are less competent, and therefore less safe than mainline pilots, or, that they earn 40 percent less than mainline pilots mainly because of the exchange rates of the two currencies?:rolleyes:

[RATpin]

Relax Bro,their just lashing out due to the current environment.
Chickens,Roost Etc.

[standard]

Plane Talking (http://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalking/)

The Hungry Beast’s Jitcunnickt satirical summary of the not Qantas, fully independent, falsely labelled ‘Spirit of Australia‘ Jetconnect full service trans Tasman operation has hit some raw nerves.

This is a response from the other side of the Tasman, and it lays a few punches that are factually correct to the best of my knowledge.

I am getting totally p*ssed off with all of the bull**** and lies that are being spread by the Unions and, in particular do find the piss take that was on ABC particularly offensive. It is typical of the bullying tactics and attitudes that the Australian Unions and some Australians unfortunately have towards their Kiwi brothers, an attitude that I find very disappointing because as you know I have worked for Australian Companies most of my working life and have very, very close friends who are Australian.(ie such as you) The truth be known I would have probably chosen to live and work there after PNG had in not been for Cathy’s desire to stay in NZ. As far as Jet Connect is concerned here are a few facts which the Union is not publicising. When the Company started in September 2002, as you know it was just a domestic operation in NZ operating under the Qantas brand. The Pilots at that time approached the Australian Qantas Pilots Union and asked them to represent us because we felt that the NZALPA was basically just for the Air NZ Pilots and would not represent us properly. The reply from the Australian Union was basically they were not interested and for us to take a flying jump, end of story. Well we beavered away and gradually got enough Pilots in the Company into the Union, however unfortunately at that time the Management of the Company was pretty atrocious and things were not going too well, with Pilots leaving and morale in general down in the dumps. At that stage Qantas Australia sent 2 high powered guys over from Australia, they sacked the NZ CEO and the Flight Ops Manager and replaced them with these 2 guys. I am convinced that the brief given to these 2 was to take a close look at the operation and see whether it was worth saving or just shutting it down. Well the rest is history, they were only here for just over 2 years, the decision was made to continue on, new 737-800 NG’s were assigned for Jet Connect and when Jet Star started the domestic operation in NZ our role changed to the Tasman operation.

I hasten to add that at the time John Borghetti was still very much involved in Qantas and he in fact was in charge of the Jet Connect side of things so he saw the value of the operation, which of course he is continuing with the NZ Pacific blue operation in Virgin which is operated by NZ crews and on a worse contract than what we are on, and who are now flying most of the duties from Australian ports. (I do not see this being publicised or bitched and moaned about by the unions) With the arrival of these 2 guys we managed to negotiate a reasonable contract with the Company and I can tell you even though we are being paid less than the Australian Pilots we are on a par with the likes of Air NZ an in fact our Company is seen by young Kiwis as the Company to be employed by and a job as a Pilot with us is well sort after, so we are pretty well looked after. After a couple of years the Australian Management team went back to be replaced by a NZ Flight Ops Manager and another Australian as CEO. Since then we have not looked back, the new aircraft make up 95% of the fleet, morale is very high and you have a bunch of Kiwi’s working their arses off ensuring the Qantas brand is name is maintained to a high standard and that if possible a preferred choice when it comes to Tasman travel. The comment about the Pilots not being Qantas Pilots really does piss me off big time. You have not got a bunch of amatures flying the aircraft but a group of highly experienced Professional Pilots. We are operating the aircraft under the Qantas standard operation proceedures and our whole operation is run as Qantas operate.

Our checks in the Sim are exactly the same as any Pilot in the Qantas Group has. I for one have over 19000 hours flying experience and there are a number of our Pilots who have even more flight time than that and there would not be too many Pilots in the Qantas International Operation with that amount of flight experience. As far as the argument that we are taking Australian jobs is concerned this has got to be the biggest load of bull**** that has ever been spread.

There has not been one redundancy within the group since we arrived and it can be safely said that Qantas would most probably not have had a presence on the Tasman had in not been for us and out lower operating costs so we have not taken any jobs whatsoever. The likes of Emirates, Lan Chile, China Air etc have made the Tasman extremely competitive so it would seem to me that the Company had to get some reduction in costs in order to be able to compete. Once again another falsehood by the ABC snippet that the Company does not pass on the savings made by lower operating costs, because our fares are similar, if not better than others. We have a good load factor for the Tasman operation and all in all I know that the Group Management are very pleased with the way things are going.

Enough of the rant but there is a lot of crap being spread out there and I trust that this will in a way counter some of the half truths and lies that have been uttered. You have a group of hard working, good Kiwis operating the Qantas brand on the Tasman and they are certainly not letting the side down at all which is a lot more than can be said for some people on the other side of the ditch.

Whoever wrote this is an idiot!.. 19000 hours and prostituting yourself for your own self gratification!!... get a life!

You have taken Qantas Jobs! and you are NOT a Qantas pilot!

If you want to be a Qantas pilot apply!..., please don't self proclaim yourself as the Qantas prophecy over the Tasman!, you are merely an industrial tool!!

And if i didn't say it already... an idiot!!!!

[Anthill]

Standard,

Whilst I think that many would recognise that QF pilots are disappointed that the company has moved many jobs off shore, it would be prudent to consider the implications of your post above. Your employer has set up another company in New Zealand and offered pilots employment outside of your system. For you to then assert that these Jetconnect pilots are somehow Qantas 'wannabees' defies comprehension.

Jetconnect pilots have been instructed by their employer to wear a uniform indentical to yours and fly an aircraft painted in QF colours. This is a sham perpetuated by the company and not the staff. To assert that they have "stolen" Qantas jobs is not only divisive but is plain wrong. Jetconnect has lawfully offered employment to these poeple under local terms and, like it or not, they every moral and legal right to their jobs. They have an equal right to persue a career in their choosen profession just as you do.

Your attitude will only serve to alienate the pilots at Jetconnect. The implications of your post are that you see Jetconnect pilots as an enemy who has usurped your God-given position as some sort of Lord Of The Sky. I summise that your intention would be to have them removed from the industry so that you can have some progression. Do you think that they will support you after this? I for one am re-assessing my support for the QF pilots, if this is their prevaling attitude :rolleyes:

[FlareArmed]

Jetconnect is part of the divide and conquer strategy: QF could have chosen to keep one pilot group with international basings, but that would mean negotiating with one union – too big a stick.

In early days, the Jetconnect pilots (mostly ex Ansett Australia) asked AIPA to represent them; they saw the writing on the wall. AIPA dismissed them with barely a thought; in fact, they stopped them wearing Qantas hats because they weren't real Qantas pilots.

Wisdom and foresight by past AIPA leaders could have staved off some unpleasant realities now.

[noip]

Could AIPA have legally represented the Jetconnect pilots? I'm not sure they could have.

N

[FlareArmed]

Could AIPA have legally represented the Jetconnect pilots?

That's a good point.

I believe the letter to AIPA proposed cooperation: perhaps represent was not the right word. Either way, the NZ based pilots got a terse reply from the AIPA President at the time.

I know it's Pandora's Box in comparison, but are the Cathay pilots at the different bases outside HK covered by the same association?

[Fruet Mich]

Either way it's incredibly stressful on both sides of the Tasman, Qantas or Jetconnect. There are some very strong emotions coming through here. The very sad thing is that it is commonly quoted that Jetconnect are taking flying off mainline. This is indeed very true, but isn't this the same with Jetstar taking mainline routes? Aren't these guys in the sane union?

Unfortunately across all industries in NZ, pay levels are all around 40% lower than that of Australia. The Mexico of the pacific. It's unfortunate that all Australian companies can see the advantage, Virgin and Jetstar NZ are indeed in this basket.

The angry chaps on this site that continually slag the likes of Jetconnect etc should be putting more time and effort into getting their union to set up a ghost seniority system to give them an opportunity to progress into a command within a "group" airline rather than trying to get rid of them.
Because this management group will not reinstate the old legacy Qantas back
onto the route but rather expand the Jetstar product with a "operated by
Jetstar" sticker on the side instead of "operated by Jetconnect"

[aussie_herb]

" The Jetconnect pilots received a terse reply from the then AIPA president " Oh really would love to see a copy . The fact of the matter was there was a perfectly good NZ pliots association and AIPA had no legal coverage of NZ pilots at all. They also would have seriously alienated the NZALPA by attempting to poach pilots from their backyard .Qantas pilots are upset because 737 pilots and 767 pilots are sitting on assigned leave and are currently being demoted to lower ranks and pay because of the establishment of Jetconnect . Mr 19000 hours ...( I only have 14000 and am an FO with 16 years service in Qantas so what would I know) hangs his hat on his experience , sadly those hours haven't gifted him much wisdom . If he joined Qantas in 2002 he would be a second officer . Mainly because he would have seen all of his career advancement farmed out to outfits like the one he is now in . The argument isnt with him it is with a short sighted qantas management who hate Australia and the industrial system we have to assure a reasonable standard of living in this country .

[rmcdonal]

If he joined Qantas in 2002 he would be a second officer And probably earning more than he is now.

[Nuthinondaclock]

they (AIPA) stopped them wearing Qantas hats because they weren't real Qantas pilots.

This makes a a good throw away line portraying QF pilots as vain but there is no possible way that Qantas pilots could ever dictate the uniform of another Airline. Think about it for a second. It's just rubbish.

It's like one of those statements added to the end of an urban myth to 'prove' the story.

"And after the dogfood was removed she moved interstate and was never heard from again!"

[PPRuNeUser0161]

From an outsiders point of view the Jetconnect pilots, and any other second tear pilots for that matter, have every right to the jobs they have. When a new airline recruits a pilot base there is not the numbers nor the unity to bargain for QF mainline type T & C's. That would have had to have come from the QF mainline pilots at the time. Now its too late.

The jobs were there, they had bills to pay and family to support, and that's that. Its no good dumping on them. The fact is they are helping to keep the whole show somewhere near viable and therefore should be congratulated. The off-shoring of labour has been going on for years and if we stop business from doing it they'll eventually get eaten up. If you want it run by the pilots for the pilots then get together and buy it out. On the other hand you've got your job's now and you'll be OK so ride the wave. Tomorrow the surf will be lower!
SN

[noip]

SN,

Your post, though heartfelt obviously, demonstrates a complete lack of understanding of the issues involved, and is erroneous in so many "facts", it bewilders me.

And no, I don't feel like going over it to correct you, since it is obvious you wouldn't believe me anyway.

N

[404 Titan]

FlareArmed
I know it's Pandora's Box in comparison, but are the Cathay pilots at the different bases outside HK covered by the same association?
CX pilots based in bases that aren’t yet on-shored are represented by HKAOA. Those based in Australia and Canada where the bases have been on-shored are represented by affiliated unions of HKAOA, i.e. AOA Australia and AOA Canada.

Onshore = wholly owned company of CX registered in the country of the based crew.

[FlareArmed]

This part of the rant is documented:

The Pilots at that time approached the Australian Qantas Pilots Union and asked them to represent us because we felt that the NZALPA was basically just for the Air NZ Pilots and would not represent us properly. The reply from the Australian Union was basically they were not interested and for us to take a flying jump, end of story.

The "hat" anecdote I mentioned, is also true (AIPA pressured Flight Department management); it shows the attitude of AIPA at the time – petty. But, AIPA of then was different from now – it had tunnel vision and a superiority complex: the blinkers are now off.

The facts in the rant are on the money; the ethical dilemma is another story. Whether engineered or stumbled on, the Jetconnect strategy divides Qantas group pilots – both are claiming the moral high-ground for different reasons. The company will try and widen the divide; only the QF (paid) pilots cooperating will narrow it.

['holic]

The "hat" anecdote I mentioned, is also true (AIPA pressured Flight Department management); it shows the attitude of AIPA at the time – petty.How exactly did AIPA pressure your Flight Dept management .... in an outside company ..... outside a bargaining period ....... in another country ........ about hats? What was AIPA going to do if management didn't give in?

While you're at it, let us know where we can find the documents that back up your rant.

[FlareArmed]

It's not my rant: my sources were in JetConnect when the letters were written (ex-Ansett 737 blokes wanting to pay some bills). They told me about the letter, the response, and the childish "hat" attitude over a cuppla beers. Go and ask the AIPA President at the time – I'm told by QF mates, you will have little trouble believing the ranter if you do.

I don't agree with the ethics of the outsourcing/QF spin (lies) situation, but you can't blame the Kiwi ranter for wanting to balance the satire with a bit of background – albeit, probably over one too-many wines.

The point is, that AIPA did indeed fob them off in the early days; there's no point denying it. Just understand it pissed them off, and that it's relevant before you open fire. You might adjust your aim a little if you know some of the history.

['holic]

Whilst I agree that hats have always been very high on the agenda (let's face it, it's an issue that's right up there with black socks ...... those Jetconnect guys aren't wearing black socks are they? We may have to take legal action) I find it hard to believe Jetconnect management would have done anything except laugh in AIPA's face, let alone agree to their demands.

Add that to your "documented" evidence being a letter you were told about in bar and you can see why I might be a little bit sceptical.

The problem is urban myths like this get spread around and the next thing you know blokes are saying "AIPA did this back then, so that now justifies me screwing you over". You see it on here all the time. Apparently it helps them sleep at night.

Anyway, I'm not sure why any of the Jetconnect guys should be ranting. If someone was using their money and their time in a court case to get me a 40% payrise, I'd be wearing whatever the fcuk hat they wanted me to.

[FlareArmed]

I'm quite certain those things happened; it was pretty much first-hand information from those in the thick of it at the time. The blokes I knew there have left, but not before the make-over that turned it into a good mob to work for – the key was getting rid of a certain senior manager (sound familiar?)

From what I've seen, almost all the Jetconnect pilots are laying pretty low over the court action; it could go either way, and the consequences are unknown. They know the situation they are in, but they didn't bring it on themselves – they were recruited into a domestic operation; it was bigger forces that took them 100% Trans-Tasman. My point in backing up the ranter with a bit of inside knowledge from the past, is to add another piece to the puzzle so you guys in the thick of battle can make more reasoned judgements and point the guns in the right direction.

My closest friends are in Qantas, both short-haul and long-haul (that's why I follow the issues so closely); I am as aghast as anyone of the direction things are going, but there's no point making irrational allegations based on misinformation or half the information. I know (although I can't prove it to you in the way you seem to need) the ranter is not telling fibs.

[whatever6719]

Does anyone out there know when the decision in Fair Work Australia is going to be announced?? Its been going on for ages!!

[botero]

I understand that FWA will be handing down the decision shortly.
My insider tells me it will be that the wearing of hats is required, but Jetconnect's hat badges must be 40% smaller. :)

[Iron Bar]

Flare Armed,

Listen

It is ILLEGAL for AIPA to offer coverage to Jetconnect pilots. AIPA only has the right to cover pilots based in AUSTRALIA and operating international and domestic Australian routes.

Paradoxically Voz and Cathay (oz based) could be covered and Jetconnect not.

If the Jetconnect pilots had ever asked (I'm not suggesting they didn't), that's the reply they would have received.

[slamer.]

Given the shellacking the JC crew are receiving here (mostly anti Kiwi) it would be interesting to know what the pilot demographic is and how it's changed since JC started ...... from someone in the know?

[distracted cockroach]

Can't give you numbers, but there are quite a few ex-Ansett NZ guys there who, incidently, have been wearing a Qantas uniform since Tasman Pacific began operating as Qantas NZ back in the BAe146 days (domestic only of course) There are others from Ansett NZ Regional, as well as some Australians (some fair, some foul), many of whom are probably ex Ansett guys who also found themselves without a job.
From the point of an interested observer, I'd say many posters here are playing the man rather than the ball. Jetconnect pilots were offered jobs and accepted them in good faith. The fact that Qantas management seem to be using them as a leverage tool against QF pilots isn't their fault....if the QF pilot's representatives had built themselves a contract with a proper "scope" clause (similar to the Air NZ contract, which prevented Freedom being expanded) in the first place, they wouldn't be having this problem. First Jetconnect, then Jetstar, both management tools to reduce costs, both sneered at by Qantas pilots, but who are the ones feeling the pain now?
Too little and way too late. Qantas pilots need to look at themselves and ask why it took 10 years for the outsourcing of jobs to be recognised as a problem (or if recognised, why nothing was done)
Certainly there were a lot of observers all over the world wondering why QF pilots sat back and did nothing whilst Jetstar was set up and expanded. Jetconnect is small-fry in comparison.

[donkey123]

It's probably fair to say the vast majority of drivers that have joined Jetconnect in the last 3 years (replacing those that went to PB or returned home to Aus) have come straight out of the Air NZ Link operators. Mostly F/O's from Air Nelson (the odd CPT has joined) or CPT's from Eagle Air.

[murdoch_disliker]

Little bit of history looking further back into the birth of JetConnect. Ansett NZ (after a disastrous industrial battle) was sold to a group of NZ private investors and was rebranded as Qantas NZ; a franchise of the Qantas brand. Due to poor management and ongoing poor morale Qantas NZ went into receivership early 2001 with the loss of hundreds of jobs (about 130 NZ pilots).
To fill the void in the market, Qantas mainline operated domestic services to avoid an embarrassing disappearance of the brand in NZ.
When Qantas decided to set up an operation in NZ they originally did this through AWOPS the Ansett Aus leasing company, this became Jetconnect with the issue of the NZ AOC.
Jetconnect operated ex-Ansett Aus B737's and then started getting Qantas mainline B737's, all of which were re-registered ZK.
An interesting fact at this time; AWOPS/AWAS and then JetConnect were originally not able to employ NZ pilots even though; the aircraft were ZK registered and operated on a NZ AOC, the routes were totally NZ domestic, 130 pilots had recently been laid off from Qantas NZ. Late 2002, NZ pilots were able to join JetConnect.
And yes it is true that AIPA would not allow JetConnect pilots to join their union at the time for reasons unknown.
Therefore, I believe that NZ pilots have a historical right to fly JetConnect aircraft, the best way to have a positive outcome for all parties is for trans-tasman union co-operation.

[Capt Kremin]

If QF wants to start up outfits like JC or Jetstar, AIPA cannot stop them.

What AIPA can do however is ask that, if they are going to be operated as Qantas flights, that they be remunerated in the same way as Qantas pilots. This has the effect of removing some of the incentive to start up these flag of convenience operations.

QF has been trying to sideline AIPA for about 10 years now. The reason why there is no separate company called Jetstar International is purely because, as a company operating international flights in and out of Australia, and based in Australia, AIPA would have had the legal right to coverage.

As others have stated, JC pilots are based in NZ, so AIPA cannot legally cover them.

QF started JQ with promises to QF pilots that it would never grow beyond certain limits, never compete directly with QF services etc etc, and then waited till relevant QF EBA's were signed off before reneging on those promises. Outside of a bargaining period, AIPA was powerless to do anything about it.

The QF Chief pilot has written to his pilots stating that AIPA's claim threatens the jobs of the Jetconnect pilots and may mean that QF does not operate on the Tasman.

I find that claim somewhat ludicrous. Maybe it can be put in the same basket as the claims they made about the scope of Jetstar. Who knows. The main problem that QF pilots have with their management is that they don't believe a word they utter.

[Worrals in the wilds]

QF started JQ with promises to QF pilots that it would never grow beyond certain limits, never compete directly with QF services etc etc, and then waited till relevant QF EBA's were signed off before reneging on those promises.

Were these handshake promises or written into the EBAs?

[Capt Kremin]

They were delivered by various means, pilot meetings and such. But never in legally enforceable form.

It was the start of the total destruction of trust in management that characterises the relationship today.

[HF3000]

Hence the current PIA to make it enforceable. Some might say too little too late, but it isn't too late and they won't accept anything less than enforceable agreements so it isn't too little. Finally.

And on the other subject the FWA JC case may take another 6 months to deliver a decision - which could be that JC crew get a 40% pay rise. I woud be lying low too if I was a JC pilot. And yes, under current regimes AIPA and NZALPA do finally have a good cooperative working relationship. What's more, I believe they even have it in a written and signed document.

[puff]

Jetconnect was always interesting in the fact that it has grown like a bit of an un-noticed cancer.

One interesting question to ask QF management is why that when JC started that the a/c were clearly missing the 'spirit of australia' titles on the aircraft - fair enough one might question when the a/c were only operating domestically in NZ. Then they started occasional Trans-Tasman services - missing the titles. Then over time the a/c started turning up in exactly the same colour scheme as the VH registered a/c including the 'spirit of australia' titles including the ZK rego.

Throwing even more insults, both to the New Zealand people and Australian, is that they put a special colour scheme advertising the wallabies, on a NZ registered a/c, flying to Australia, crewed by Kiwis ! Spirit of where ?

I mean where does it end - Shelf companies in UK, Singapore,Bangkok, Los Angeles employing locals on local terms flying with QF colours ?

Rather than worrying about screwing their employees, why doesn't Qantas actually concentrating on it's product and doing things to make customers chose them over others, compete on product, timetable and service. Remember the times as a kid and feeling pride at seeing the Qantas red tail lined up at an international airport on the other side of the world, now go to the airport and all you see is a faded red tail that looks like it belongs to some third world carrier.

Remember all the things that were going wrong at Ansett towards the end...

[HF3000]

You see parallels between the current downfall of Qantas and the downfall of Ansett?

Do you see parallels between the people in charge of Qantas and the people in charge of Ansett approaching it's downfall?

Shareholders take note.

[max1]

Anyone on here knows what the QANTAS brand is/was based on.
The muppets who have run the company for the last 10 years have abused the trust of the paying passenger in that people have paid for Qantas and sometimes been copping something else. These muppets have the attitude that the traveller should just suck it up as the management are trying to satisfy the shareholders.
Brand is everything. You devalue your brand and you devalue your business. You can't serve up a Cheeseburger and tell people it's a BigMac. People are smarter than that.
You can't charge for Qantas and deliver Jetstar.

[On Guard]

Does cx pay in Au$ for Au bases and NZ $ for NZ?

If so then this supports JC as Qf have a NZ base and pay the going rate for NZ pilots. Has to be NZ based flying due to am departures from NZ. So would e bes thing not to make JC part of Qf and if you want your flying back go live in NZ and earn the nzd?

If cx pay hkg then Qf win the debate. Aud should be paid.

[The Green Goblin]

Does cx pay in Au$ for Au bases and NZ $ for NZ?

If so then this supports JC as Qf have a NZ base and pay the going rate for NZ pilots. Has to be NZ based flying due to am departures from NZ. So would e bes thing not to make JC part of Qf and if you want your flying back go live in NZ and earn the nzd?

If cx pay hkg then Qf win the debate. Aud should be paid.

Cathay pay everyone the same rate in US dollars I believe.

This is why the Aussie bases are hurting right now with the increase in the Aussie dollar (or more realistically the decrease of the US dollar).

[HF3000]

On Guard,

QF is not allowed to franchise the brand to overseas companies... The Qantas Sale Act dictates.

They have done just that with Jetconnect.

Court ruling awaits.

It doesn't have anything to do with what Cathay does or does not. Cathay is Cathay. Qantas is Qantas.

[404 Titan]

The Green Goblin
Cathay pay everyone the same rate in US dollars I believe.

This is why the Aussie bases are hurting right now with the increase in the Aussie dollar (or more realistically the decrease of the US dollar).
Incorrect. CX pays what they believe is market rates in all their bases. It isn’t linked to the US$ in any way. It is infact the HK base that is hurting the most compared to Aus in salary scales because the HK$ is pegged to the US$ and my pay in AU$ is now less than my Aussie based colleagues even after tax.