Where do companies think fully qualified staff come from?

[Kengineer-130]

Bit of a minor rant, but I am currently studying for my EASA B1/2 licences, I have years of mil experience, but no civil work as of yet. Looking through all the aviation job websites, all companies seem to want is fully qualified B1/2 engineers with 5+years experience, multiple type ratings and all the relevant certificates such as HF, fuel tank safty etc. It seems to be virtually impossible to get in as a mech or fitter unless you hold an A licence already?

I can appreciate that businesses try to cut overheads as much as possible, but WHERE do they expect all these fully qualified, typed ,experienced personnel to come from if they are not offering mech/fitter work? :ugh: It's early days yet, but I am worried that after personally investing heavily in my future, that I will be unable to gain the year of log book experience I need to apply for my B1/2. :sad: It seems to me that no one is willing to invest in new staff?

[Fargoo]

No point employing someone with no experience and no cover when there are plenty of lads and lasses out of work with all the right stuff already.

Plenty of experienced people out there without jobs to scoop up those advertised. All you can do I guess is keep banging away with the CVs in the hope that you can get a job as a mechanic and get the relevant experience that way.

Things are slowly picking up but it's not exactly the most secure of careers to choose, we are an unwanted cost to be ditched whenever possible.

[Rigga]

I understand how you feel but:-

Would you want someone "not qualified" to work on your nice car? Airlines are the same - and their planes cost a lot more and are more susceptible to damage.

Airlines also expect any new bod to hit the ground running - a newly Type Rated liney has to start by almost running his shift. There is no "running-in" time. You could be expected to do it all from day one.

As Fargoo says there is a lot of "choice" at the moment so the likelihood of picking up a "training" job is less than normal.

You will have heard before that training is the first cost to go in any crisis, and it is often the last to come back too.

Keep going. It will pick up...honest!

[Alber Ratman]

Forget looking at the connie websites, B2 land is awash with Irish connie B2 mechs, all kicked out of SRT when it shot Dublin. You can try around the agencies, or just write to any airline/MRO you can think of. Some companies might like the look of you over some college boy who has no maintenance experience of any kind whatsoever..:E

It is hard mate. I'm all moduled up post mob and been in the industry for over 2 years now.. Permie as well, but I'm almost as far away from being a certifier as I was when I started out.. Well not really, but its been a struggle to get the jobs for the basic etc. If your company doesn't need any certifiers they mostly don't bother to train anybody else up until the last minute!:E

You will find that there are lots of highly experienced civilian mechanics who are also doing their modules by self study.. The pool of fitters waiting for promotion isn't just college boys and ex crabs/pongos/matelots!:eek:

[h3dxb]

Like they pay us ? They think we come from the trees......

Has something to do with peanuts and monkeys :ugh:

[boeing_eng]

It is tough at the moment to get that break into a decent civvie job. Airlines and MRO's obviously don't want to take the risk with an unknown (and pay for training etc) when there is a ready supply of what they need out there.

Stick with it though as things will definitely improve.....You don't mention your age but I guess you have plenty more years in you? In the next 5-10 years or so there is going to be a huge exodus of experienced certifiers retiring from the industry (and many companies currently have their head in the sand regarding the implications of this!)

[ericferret]

The aviation job situation is cyclic and always has been.
In the early 80's I had enough rejection letters with beautiful headings from operators all round the world to wallpaper my house. To get a job you had to have a licence with exactly the type ratings and experience required.

Within 6 months the situation had changed and jobs were everywhere.

It is only a year or two ago that their were loads of jobs in the helicopter sector with operators offering courses up front to attract staff.

Not much of that to be seen now.

It is a little like British weather if you don't like it wait a while.

The problem is that the wait this time could be lengthy. It will turn round eventually.

Patience and determination are required, there will be little handed to anyone on a plate.
Certain sectors particularly corporate and private have probably not reached the bottom yet. This probably sounds rather depressing but that is how it is at the moment.

[chasb441]

The writing was on the wall after 9/11 and now the bank induced crisis may be with us for a while. I tried a few years ago to break into the industry when times where good, and even after 22 years in the military, failed to get much more than regular mechanic work. Trying to break through the licensed barrier was a nightmare. Its a hard fact of life that any time gained within the military is worth diddly squat in this country. Look at life down under maybe. They treat 'ex forces' with a bit more respect and value them more than good old blighty.

[EGT Redline]

The writing was on the wall after 9/11 and now the bank induced crisis may be with us for a while. I tried a few years ago to break into the industry when times where good, and even after 22 years in the military, failed to get much more than regular mechanic work. Trying to break through the licensed barrier was a nightmare. Its a hard fact of life that any time gained within the military is worth diddly squat in this country. Look at life down under maybe. They treat 'ex forces' with a bit more respect and value them more than good old blighty.

What do you expect, the CAA to grant you a licence gratis just because you served in the military? Regardless of what you were, what you did or how long you served for in the forces, the world owes you no favours. Unless you get the books out and put the work in to get licensed just like everybody else, you will only ever be a mechanic.

[Alber Ratman]

The industry can pick who it choses. The modules are only a foundation at the end of the day to the practical experience and knowledge required to carry out the responsiblities. Of course a lot of the military experience does cross over, but if you haven't done Base/2nd line hanger work/Majors/Cat 3 work and have just been a tyre kicker on a Squadron, you will be in for a shock. Ways of working are different, terminology is different, paper work is different, expectations from the management on your responsiblities are way different.. As I said before, lots of time served apprentices in Civvy street do what you and I have done towards progressing, and they know a damn more from their experience in the industry that us crabs tended to pick up. Saying that there are a few joke LAEs about that make you think, "Who in hell gave them an approval!" They don't tend to be British mind! I have just thrown my logbook in to my quality manager to see if he will sponser my initial licence app. 2 1/2 years it has taken to build up, true I could have pulled the stunt others do of active interest, but the CAA are realising this happens and don't like it.. I also want to learn properly. Inmaterial because my company has only promoted 2 guys to certifier slots in the last 2 years.. and they aren't full LTs either because comany will not pay the renumeration..:{
No type course without a basic licence, etc, etc.. No freebies at my place!

[Beaver man]

Bloody hell, there are some doom and gloom merchants around!! Keep plodding away with the CVs Keng!! I was stuck in the ME on one of those not so brilliant military contracts. A friend showed me an advert in FI looking for engineers near where the family were. I got my wife to contact them and explain that I was on leave in a couple of weeks but back in the ME before the interview date. They sent an application form which, when I got home I filled in and sent off. A few days later Mrs BM called me to the phone saying that xxxx xxxx, a chap I knew in the Army and played rugby with, was on the line. After five minutes or so of catch-up, I asked him why the f*******g hell he was calling me after nigh on 15 years! " I'm Head of Line Maintenance with ***, I want you to come for an interview"!! The rest, as they say, is history! Yes, I was very lucky that the guy knew me and wanted me, too many crabs were with the company already!! But it could have gone the other way where he saw my application and thought, "I don't want that tosser"!!

So keep at it Keng, you never know,and what's it going to cost you?

Best of luck and pm me if you would be interested in a bit more info.

[itsresidualmate]

Get your CV round all the agencies and get work as a mech, that's how I (and a lot of ex-RAF) started. Left the RAF in '96 as an SAC sootie, I learned loads in the few years I connied as a mech, now earning most I ever earned as an LAE connie! Yeah, there aren't buckets of jobs, but keep calling round (don't leave it with an email!) all the agencies every week, you'll get something, then you can start on your log book. There is work out there, just that you'll have to travel for it.

[shedhead]

itsresidualmate has got it about right. there is work out there but you have to push for it. a lot of mech jobs they want people who know the type and can just get on with it, other times they want to just get as many bodies on the job as they can. those are the ones that you pick up type time on.You just need to keep on plugging away. been at this 32 years now and I still have to phone up the agencies and find out if there is anything going. don't know many people who don't to be honest. it's a tough old world at the moment and the agencies are always going to go for the guys with experience on type first. just keep phoning and something will come up.