F-117 secrecy.

[Al R]

Why was the F-117 made public knowledge when it was?

Was it pretty much an open secret anyway? Did the USSR know about it (I imagine that it did?), was the news about to come out or was it announced to turn the screw and add a little more 'break the bank' Glasnost pressure?

[green granite]

It was outed by someone publishing an extremely grainy picture of it, and after a bit of pressure the DOD admitted it existed and issued a picture or two.

It was allegedly based in area 52 at the Tonopath test facility 37 47' 52"N 116 46' 41"W

[barnstormer1968]

Al R.
I guess many people must have known of its existence.
There were fairly accurate plastic model kits available to buy from the mid to late '70's.
I also have an encyclopedia from 1982 that states that part of the break in the 'century series' numbering was to go on a stealth aircraft.

[Just a spotter]

Possibly for propaganda reasons.

The same potential cause of it being designated as a thoroughbred fighter with an F- designation rather than a more accurate A- for ground attack.

JAS

[Buster Hyman]

I always thought they were revealed when they were superceded....:ooh:

[Al R]

Thanks, I wondered if it had been outed rather than discovered. It must have been known about if you could buy models, let alone have anyone wonder what was in those sheds, but I guess the other side had as much to gain by keeping it quiet, as did the US. I thought it may have been released at that time as a sort of coup de grace.. something to make the Soviets realise that they could never hope to catch the US up and that resistance (financial at least) was futile.

I noticed too, that some of the crashes (pro rata, more than you might expect?) were caused by spatial disorientation - the result of limited visibility from the seat?

[muppetofthenorth]

I always thought they were revealed when they were superceded...:ooh:

In which case public acknowledgement of the B2 is rather interesting.

[The Oberon]

Aurora anyone ?

[Less Hair]

Part of the whole stealth concept was to let the other guy know enough about your aircraft. Only that knowledge created the shock to make them upgrade their global radar network from the Far East to central Europe, effectively ruining them and letting their system collapse. The finish line of the arms race if you want. Won by a few dozen F-16 in black plastic coating. Good RoI.

[What the Fug]

Less Hair


Ditto Bob Ballard finding the Titanic, one of the reasons behind it was to let the Russians know how far down the US navy could go.

A Subtle hint that they had visited some of the Subs the Russians had lost

[wub]

My understanding is that it was revealed because they wanted to fly them during the day. Up till it was made public it had only been operated at night and as a result there had been losses.

[Double Zero]

I always thought they were revealed when they were superceded.

Never mind the B-2, how about the SR-71 ?! Aurora indeed...

[Jimlad1]

On the subject of Titanic, I believe Bob Ballards team used the dive as a fairly open excuse to do some actual work on some other more recent wrecks in the region - cant remember if they were US or Soviet though. The entire expedition was a convenient front!

[EGGP]

Although there were plastic model kits available they didn't look like the hopeless diamond shape of the F117; as a member of joe public I was amazed by the first photos when they came out in the 80's.

[hoodie]

I believe that wub has the reason - the USAF wanted to fly it during the day, hence release of a photo.

The photo was a carefully ambiguous image released by the Pentagon in November 1988. after the Presidential elections, and which suggested that the jet was short and fat. That's the image green granite is referring to, I'm sure - this one:

http://www.f-117a.com/images/Timeline/F117_6.GIF

Prior to that there had been NO public domain images of the aircraft, and any artists' impressions and plastic kits had the shape entirely wrong. None had facets, for a start - the best known "Stealth Fighter" shape of the time was a plastic kit from Testors, which was curvacious, with inward canted twin fins and canards.

If any previous pictures had existed then in the public domain, they'd be available now on the Internet (e.g. on this site (http://www.f-117a.com/)), but they don't - QED. :8

Sure, there had been rumours for years (carefully leaked to bug the Sovs?) that such a thing existed, but what it actually looked like was anybody's guess.

It wasn't until several months after the Pentagon image was released that Aviation Week published the first clear pictures of the jet in the circuit at Tonopah Test Range (TTR) during the day, and not until Spring 1990 before the USAF released official pictures and publicly displayed a couple at Nellis.

It's interesting to note that, according to Steve Davies' excellent book "Red Eagles" about the only recently admitted-to MiGs operating at TTR during the day at the same time as the unacknowledged F-117s were flying at night, the MiG pilots were officially unaware of what exactly it was operating from the other hangars on the base.

The first F-117 flew in 1981 (after the smaller proof of concept 'Have Blue' which first flew in 1977), and the non-trials aircraft moved to TTR by 1983, so flying an semi-operational unit of 10s of aircraft for 5+ years without anybody publicly knowing what the thing actually looked like was quite an achievement.

It's still a mysterious aircraft. Officially all retired in 2008 (and most stored in their original TTR hangars), video of an airworthy F-117 over Nevada was taken in October last year...

PS Surely everybody knows that Aurora was replaced by Blackstar? :E

[BEagle]

Testors' model was of the fictional 'F-19':

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a341/nw969/leef19a.jpg Model by Dan Lee

Before the F-117 was unveiled, I made a number of 'zaps' based on a picture of the 'Lockheed F-19', allegedly of the '???th TFW, Tonopah AFB' which I used to leave lying around in the USA - or stuck firmly under the perspex in various Base Ops planning rooms...:E

I also left one inside the cockpit of a U-2 at Patrick AFB - they must have wondered about that!

[Bubblewindow]

How long did they operate out of the UK with Lightnings acting as decoys or was this a Ballhop??

BW

[Geehovah]

There comes a time when only flying at night to maintain secrecy doesn't give you the best capability. Keeping a weapons system secret costs a disproportionate amount of $$. The facilities that the F117 Force used are now discussed openly on the internet. F117 was an amazing platform and the UK was privileged to have been involved. ..............But even F117 pilots needed a life. We could never have achieved the same programme in UK; the guys who ran it have my entire admiration.

[green granite]

I think this is the article and image I was thinking about, memories get a bit hazy sometimes at my age. :suspect:

stealth fighter | 1988 | 3280 | Flight Archive (http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1988/1988%20-%203280.html?search=f117%20stealth%20fighter) (It's a pdf download).

[TacomaSailor]

In summer 1996 several B-2s were seen flying low and slow around Puget Sound (Boeing/McChord AFB). I have rather detailed pictures I took of them from my boat. They were eerie looking but not unknown.

The local aerospace reporters did extensive stories about them that summer.

I thought they were public knowledge at that time - three years before their first combat use.

[just another jocky]

I was in O. Club bar at Nellis the day the F117 was 'outed'. The pilots turned up with their red bandanas around their heads and their wives on their arms. This was the first time they'd been able to tell their wives what they had been flying and why they'd had to disappear every Monday morning to return Friday evening after a week of night flying.

The Brit exchange pilot at the time was ex-GR1 and known to most of us.

[hoodie]

The B-2 rollout was in November 1988 (only a couple of weeks after the F-117 unveiling) and was a public occasion at Palmdale.

There was apparently much speculation about its planform on the day, as the press & public were seated such that they could only see it from the front, until:

(a) Aviation Week revealed that they'd taken photos from a rented Cessna flying overhead.

(b) People twigged that the "Air Force star" on the concrete in front of the jet was in fact...

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/48/B2_bomber_initial_rollout_ceremony_1988.jpg/800px-B2_bomber_initial_rollout_ceremony_1988.jpg

(Yes, I know you can see its shadow - but it's a good story!)

[Al R]

GG,

Cheers, from that link (and as referred to)..

The USAF has decided to lift slightly the security shroud on this "Have Blue" project aircraft for two reasons. The first is that it wants to operate the type from a wider range of bases and also during the day; previous flights have been made almost exclusively at night. The second reason is that the F-117A technology will soon be overshadowed by that of the Northrop B-2 stealth bomber, which will be rolled out publicly on November 22.

[TEEEJ]

muppetofthenorth,

The B-2 is a strategic platform. Under the terms of the various treaties covering strategic arms both the US and Russia openly reveal the platforms.
Heavy strategic bombers and their operating bases are subject to verification and inspections. The terms of the various treaties are public knowledge.

The following is the B-2 verification image taken by the Russians as part of the treaty. Note the photo calibration marker?

http://www.fas.org/nuke/control/start1/text/image/usphotos/b2.jpg

Link to other treaty verification images.

LETTERS SIGNED BY U.S. AND SOVIET REPRESENTATIVES (http://www.fas.org/nuke/control/start1/text/letters.htm)

If the US or Russia developed a new heavy strategic nuclear capable bomber it would be subject to verification procedures. The type would become public knowledge as a result. Non strategic types such as the F-117 are not covered and as a result do not have to be disclosed.

TJ

[Pitts2112]

the B-2 was certainly open public knowledge by 1996. I visited Whiteman AFB to see a couple of friends who were missile jockeys in about '92 and the B-2s were just being delivered and working up to combat readiness. I can't remember the exact date but surely by the time they were being delivered, they were public knowledge.

Trying to keep something like that secret in Missouri is a whole lot different from keeping it secret in Nevada.

On the subject of the F-117, I thought it was forced into the public eye because one crashed and the public got hold of that fact and pressed the USAF on details. I could be wrong, though. IIRC it was some time between the USAF admitting they existed and coming clean with designation number and photos, hence the whole F-19 conjecture. IIRC, the F-19 stuff was out for quite a while (a year or two?) before the real photos were out.

but the memory isn't what it once wasn't.

[GreenKnight121]

If you look at the Flight Global article linked by green granite, you will see that there was over a year between the 3rd F-117 crash and the public unveiling (10 November 1988).

Three of the F-117s have crashed. The USAF did not reveal the date of the first accident, in which a Lockheed test pilot ejected safely. The second F-117 crashed on the night of July 11, 1986, at Bakersfield, California, and the third on October 14, 1987, on the Nellis Ranges.

The 2nd & 3rd crashes were fatals.

[Jackonicko]

Wub has it right:

"My understanding is that it was revealed because they wanted to fly them during the day. Up till it was made public it had only been operated at night and as a result there had been losses."

There was also the fact that the USAF wanted to upgrade the 4450th TG to full TFW status, there was a need to retire the ancient A-7s that had been the 4450th's 'cover story', while the original Conops (of using the jet as a 'plausibly deniable' way of hitting the USA's enemies) had proved legally questionable and of dubious usefulness. Every time they'd got close to using the jet in anger (Beirut in '83, Tripoli in '86) Weinberger (or his legal advisors?) had been spooked into scrubbing the mission.

The B-2 was a whole different ball game - while the 117 had been developed in the 'black' world, the B-2 was a publicly acknowledged programme, openly funded, and revealed long before the successful Northrop design was selected over the Lockheed/Rockwell competitor.

What the -117As are doing today, still flying, really is an interesting question, though.

[Al R]

Might they have been prematurely withdrawn? Interesting. Would they still have a valid worth/use? Wasn't the A10 reprieved for a bit.. the SR71 too?

[MrWomble]

Some things to consider in response to some of the posts here:

While the existence of the type was known about by opposition forces and spotters, what wasn't known by them was the quantity of airframes, weapons capabilities, ability to deploy to regional conflicts or the range of the airframe. Also, with this type it was a long time before enemy radar operators truly knew what effect stealth had on their air defences. So knowing about the airframe was one thing, knowing whether or not to be scared of it was something only the Americans knew for a good 10 years.

In the last 5 years the F-117 rapidly lost out to the F-22 in both political and financial priorities and technical capability. The F-22 had a level of stealth greater than then F-117, apparently, and can carry a much wider range and quantity of weapons into denied territory, along with significant ESM/data capabilities that the F-117 would never have. Trials were made of F-117s painted grey in an attempt to give them a daylight role but even by this time it was obvious the F-22 was going to win. Also, not having even a supporting role in the post-2005 era of pain and re-grouping experienced by the US in the two Middle East conflicts meant they were always going to be struggling for investment. Even the E-6B TACAMO aircraft found a role in Iraq….

Something else to consider is that the F-117 was built in an era when 'what happened at Groom Lake stayed at Groom Lake', hence apparently many very dangerous chemicals were used in its RAM materials which may not have been quite so legal when the aircraft had to be treated like just any other in the fleet by the 21st century USAF, see the Area 51 worker lawsuits for further details. I suspect this is the reason that most of the airframes were stored at TTR before being destroyed, not kept at the Boneyard or museums like most other retired fleets.

There were 2 (certainly less than 5 officially) F-117s kept in flyable storage post-retirement and at least one of these has been seen flying recently over Nevada. Flying it over a military test range where you can avoid schools, hospitals and anyone with breathing difficulties should one crash is very different to re-activating them as a globally deployable weapons system.

[Warmtoast]

There is a very good overview of the F-117A Nighthawk program on the Federation of American Scientists site including photos of the mangled wreckage of the one that crashed in Yugoslavia being picked over by the locals here:
Federation of American Scientists :: F-117A Nighthawk (http://www.fas.org/programs/ssp/man/uswpns/air/attack/f117a.html)

[TEEEJ]

A heads-up for UK viewers for Sunday 5th June at 9:00PM on the National Geographic Channel. The programme has already aired in the US.

Former Area 51 staff are interviewed.

Area 51: I Was There TV Show - National Geographic Channel - UK (http://natgeotv.com/uk/area-51-i-was-there)

Nat Geo TV Guide & Listings - National Geographic Channel - UK (http://natgeotv.com/uk/listings/ngc/050611)

TJ

[Pitts2112]

The F-117 and B-2 are excellent visual examples of the advance of computing power over 20 years. According to the book "Skunk Works", both aircraft were designed to the same set of stealth equations giving shapes and angles necessary to be low-observable.

The reason the F-117 is all angular and flat-faceted, while the B-2 is all curvy and organic is that, when the F-117 was designed, the state of computers could only solve the equations in 2 dimensions, hence the F-117's shape is a collection of flat panels jointed up cleverly.

By the time the B-2 was being designed, computing power had advanced enough that the equations could be solved in 3 dimensions, resulting in the smooth curves of the B-2.

I thought that was a pretty cool example of technological advancement playing out in very real terms.

[green granite]

This is an interesting read, how much is true and how much is fantasy is another matter, but most of it seems ok, and is certainly up to date as it's only just published.

AREA 51, An Uncensored History of America’s Top Secret Military Base
ANNIE JACOBSEN

[HalloweenJack]

whats of interest (well to me anyway) is the lockheed entry for the ATB ` Senior Peg`

[hoodie]

Hmm. :hmm:

Reviews of that book note that she claims as fact that the 1947 "Roswell Incident" was a Soviet decoy arranged by Stalin, and that it was a craft that contained "aliens" bio-engineered by Josef Mengele?...

The objective - Of course! Obvious! - was to panic Americans in the same way as Orson Welles' "War of the Worlds" broadcast had done. Naturally, a dusty town in the wilds of New Mexico was just the place in which to achieve maximum effect.

As well as that fantasy, knowledgeable reviewers have pointed out numerous basic historical and factual errors in the book.

Caveat Emptor!

Still, no Area 51 related Internet thread would be complete without a loony flying saucer reference.

[TLB]

> Never mind the B-2, how about the SR-71 ?! Aurora indeed...

My understanding is that president Johnson mistakenly announced it as the SR-71 (versus RS-71) and thus the designation stuck (the emperor has no clothes)

[TEEEJ]

The National Geographic programme on Area 51 has now been uploaded on You Tube.

YouTube - ‪Area 51 declassified‬‏

YouTube - ‪Area 51 declassified 2‬‏

YouTube - ‪Area 51 declassified 3‬‏

TJ

[green granite]

As well as that fantasy, knowledgeable reviewers have pointed out numerous basic historical and factual errors in the book.

It's a shame that these 'knowledgeable reviewers' don't write a definitive work on area 51, but I suspect even if they did someone would come along and say no that's not how it was.

Still, no Area 51 related Internet thread would be complete without a loony flying saucer reference

Interestingly she claims the Russian connection to Roswell comes from official documents obtained by the FoI act so it should be easily verifiable, or not. Also she actually links the whole thing to Area 51 by hearsay from that well known character Bob Lazar who one should definitely take with many pinches of salt, which, from her tone of writing, I suspect does she.

One of course should always read any so called factual book with a pince of salt, as it will always reflect the personal beliefs of the writer. Plus of course they want to make money out of it.

[60024]

JaJ:

<<I was in O. Club bar at Nellis the day the F117 was 'outed'. >>

IIRC the photo was on the front page of USA Today on the Thursday and the following night all the pilots and wives were in the bar with balloons and "My husband flies stealth fighter' Tee Shirts.. I was on Flag (probably with you I suspect!) at the time.

[MrWomble]

Nothing compared to the day TTR's other residents, the Red Eagles, were made public at Nellis!

For several years the F-117s and the Red Eagles shared TTR, and while the F-117 flew at night and its crews slept during the day the Red Eagles would be out flying. At night, the opposite happened and for a while each both baited each other saying they wouldn't believe what the other flew. I think they swapped secrets one night and the F-117 guys came out winners! (No doubt because a lot of the F-117 pilots had flown against the MiGs)

[thunderbird7]

Didn't an F117 crash on finals at Boscombe Down in 89/90? There was something went down about then that was all hushed up.

Also believe 117s were operating out of Macrihanish in the secret days.

[jamesdevice]

Googling indiecates that the UFOlogists seem to believe the Boscombe Down crash was of the supposed TR-3B "Astra"
They even go so far as to allocate a serial number: 90-2414

Don't ask me if its true... NO idea

[Ewan Whosearmy]

MrWomble

Interesting. Were you there?

[Brian Abraham]

My understanding is that president Johnson mistakenly announced it as the SR-71 (versus RS-71) and thus the designation stuck (the emperor has no clothes)The SR-71 designator is actually a continuation of the pre-1962 bomber series, which ended with the B-70 Valkyrie. Late in its career, the B-70 was proposed for the reconnaissance/strike role, with an RS-70 designation. The "RS" prefix (sometimes written as "R/S") was actually allowed as an explicit "special case" in the orignal 1962 issue of the designation regulations. When it was clear that Lockheed's A-12 aircraft (then used by the CIA) had much greater performance potential, it was decided to "push" a USAF version of that one instead of the RS-70. This USAF version was to become the RS-71.

"Conventional" wisdom now says that then president Lyndon B. Johnson messed up the designation in his public announcement and called it the SR-71 - and nobody wanted to correct the president. Because the strike mission had been cancelled anyway, "SR" was quickly reinterpreted as "Strategic Reconnaissance". However, a first-hand witness of those events recently revealed in Aviation Week & Space Technology, that LBJ did not misread anything. In fact, then USAF Chief of Staff LeMay simply didn't like the "RS" designator - he already objected it when the RS-70 was discussed, preferring "SR-70". When the RS-71 was to be announced, he wanted to make sure it would be called SR-71 instead. He managed to have LBJ's speech script altered to show "SR-71" in all places. Using archived copies of LBJ's speech, it can actually be verified that it reads SR-71 both in the script and on the tape recording. However, the official transcript of the speech, created from the stenographic records and handed to the press afterwards, shows "RS-71" in three places. It seems that not the president but a stenographer did accidentally switch the letters, and thus create a famous aviation "urban legend".

[AR1]

Machrihanish's secret hanger played host to quite a few things in it's time. Once inside, the crew didnt need to re-appear as it was linked underground to the US facility.
The first deployments were as far back as 83. What was unusual was having to work nights when we didnt have enough staff to man ATC and the support facilities, but no concept of why we were havng to do it.

Even more amazing were the steps taken to stop the resident VAS in the hanger from seeing the new arrivals. At night, the duty team were forbidden to look outside of the crew room, whilst the ground handlers wore slip on blindfolds while they marshalled the A/C in. The day staff too wore blindfolds when outside of the offices, which also had the interior windows blacked out. The only person who didnt, was a civilian girl K--- S------- who worked there. Looking back I'm almost certain she was a CIA operative.

In hindsight, I'm suprised non of the 140 misfits who had the joy to be posted there didnt just lift the blindfolds up for a quick peek and blow the whole thing - But thats us guys - professional to the end. We made it look just like another posting in the middle of nowhere with no aircraft and nothing going on.

[Stuff]

whilst the ground handlers wore slip on blindfolds while they marshalled the A/C in.

Ok, I'll bite.

How do you marshall an aircraft in if you can't see where it is?

[AR1]

How do you marshall an aircraft in if you can't see where it is?
That was the easy bit. - The 'LONGARMS' project in 1982 fitted RF detection and audio alert syestems at the back of each parking bay - It was the first commercial use of parking sensors. The audio was interpreted by the Handler who moved his lightsticks accordingly.

[Siggie]

AR1,

you know you won't go to heaven, :E

[hoodie]

How can it be stealthy if it goes "Beep! Beep! Beep!" when taxying into a dispersal? :ok:

As for the so-called "Boscombe Down incident" - a load of old guff. The last post on this thread (http://www.pprune.org/spectators-balcony-spotters-corner/239427-boscombe-down-incident-1994-a.html) fits my understanding of what happened. There was no crash. I reckon that the tinhatters lumped together a bunch of innocuous things that happened over a week or so, and spun a story out of them. It seems that the only mildly dramatic thing that did happen was that there was an A-road closure in the middle of the day due to a returning trials Tornado with a problem.

[XV277]

Mmm, how many consipracy theories can you get into one PPrune thread??:)

Regarding the model kits, Testors were so taken by the sucess of their 'F-19' kit that they produced a rival 'Mig-37 Ferret' - the blurb on the box stated along the lines that as the Soviets were less technologically advanced than the US, their Stealth fighter used older facetting technology to achived low radar visibility.

I'll bet there were a few wry smiles at Lockheed when that came out - and some perturbed security dudes!

http://www.fortunecity.com/meltingpot/portland/971/boxart/testors/testors_mig37b_48.jpg

[Mal Drop]

How can it be stealthy if it goes "Beep! Beep! Beep!" when taxying into a dispersal? http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/thumbs.gif
A common misconception. It only makes that noise when it's reversing.

[arandcee]

dur! they don't beep, they have them set on vibrate. :rolleyes:

[BEagle]

The tinfoil hat brigade and the 'Elvis is alive' mob will always believe what they want.....

But it's quite fun when a sneaky-beaky event turns out to be bunkum.

Back in the mid-70s, the NAVFAC (or 'biscuit factory*') at RAF Brawdy was ultra sneaky-beaky as it housed a humourless bunch of USN folk who worked at the SOSUS installation - we mere Hunter students weren't supposed to know anything about it. I had to punch off my tanks into St. Bride's Bay once and remarked to one of the Yanks at lunch "Hope I didn't blow your headphones off when my tanks hit the ocean!" Cue some very frosty looks and a typical "I can neither confirm nor deny" type answer....:\


One day, a mate took a short cut to the simulator section through the USN SeaBees' compound and, in doing so, spotted a mysterious bell-like object partially concealed under a tarpaulin. "Ah-hah", he thought, "I'll bet they use that for checking their cables on the sea bed....". The word went round and soon others were looking at this 'secret' bit of kit.

Unfortunately the next time they saw it, it had been painted up and was taking part in the US 1776-1976 bicentennial celebrations as the Liberty Bell - it was actually made of foam plastic and wood!


*so-called because it was commanded by a Captain Jacobs.

[chopper2004]

Was told by a mate of mine who worked for the old Bond Helicopters, that in the 80s, one of their S76 had landed at Macrihanish roughly about that time for some unknown reason, probably refuelling / pit stop purposes in 83/84 and there was a bit of humour with regards to lunch. Whoever was on Ops at the time said that the captain and the licensed engineer could eat in the Officers Mess, while the unlicensed engineer who tagged along for the flight was only allowed to eat in the Sgts Mess. The aircraft captain apparently kicked off a stink and said he would not be separated from the engineer, thereby saying they'd all eat together in the NCO mess :)

Anyhow was told that their S76 had landed and parked next to a then HH-53 deployed up from Woodbridge and a Herk, probably a HC-130 also from Woodbridge. But that was the only US presence there that particular day.

Regardless of its being now Campbeltown Airport, the airfield still plays host to USAFE exercises in particular, the 352nd SOG. Theres pics on the USAF/USAFE website of one particular exercise involving the Special Tactics Group in NBC conditions 6 years back

352nd SOG closes out ORI deployment at RAF Machrihanish (http://www2.afsoc.af.mil/news/story.asp?storyID=123012764)

That wouldnt be inside the Gaydon hangar, one of those pics? :mad::cool:

AR1, silly question if god forbid, whatever was parked in hangar at said time, that didnt make an appearance in either Bill Gunston's books or Jane's or Flight International pubs, had a mishap and said crews had to bail out, I take it it would've been up to the folks then at Woodbridge to fly out with their Pave Lows and Combat Shadows to rescue and recover rather than say D Flight at Lossie

[LowObservable]

Machrihanish, hmmmm....

IIRC the first mentions of spookiness there involved very loud noises in the 1991 timeframe.

[chopper2004]

When one was a cadet in the 80-90s the rumours around the squadron suggested that MIldenhall be The 117 hang out when in UK. I laughed it off then remembered the 2 disused ex SR-71 'barns' and the Lockheed Skunk Works reps and staff that be around. Plus looking at books on the 117 and the similar looking individual 'housing' at TTR, wasn't so much difference to the larger BLackbird barns.

I read in the very first Air Forces Monthly in 1987 that supposedly the 117 had been seen flying from Sculthorpe when it was still in USAFE hands.

Cheers

[chopper2004]

Diary of Events | Machrihanish Airbase Community Company (http://machrihanish.org/diary.html)

Guess we can say goodbye to any future spookiness or ghosts appearing from the designer boards / CAD/CAE/CAM workstations Phantom Works or Skunk Works :(:8:8

Wished I now dug out my spare quid from my Marco Polo wallet and raised my hand now :)

[cornish-stormrider]

Oh yeah the boscombe "black day"

fwiw, there is something hinky about this - less perhaps than they make out but more than us pooh pooh ers say.

And why is no one giving more info on the Aurora - or its replacement......
or its replacement's replacement......

Does Uncle Sam still put all of its go fast new sexy toy budget in the hands of Bubba Boeing, or is the "overruns" on various projects the way to fund Uber Black death machines?

Ah, also - the Omega Men, they now drive Audi's........there is one outside.

[Rosevidney1]

I am surprised at the level of interest the 'Wobblin' Goblin' has aroused. It's only real claim to fame was its much hyped invisibility to radar and even that could be compromised in rain. It wasn't very fast, it couldn't carry a heavy load and it was limited to nocturnal raids. It was however the first serious stab at making a stealth aircraft and very much a product of its time so it gains my respect.

[ex-fast-jets]

I was on exchange at HQ TAC - as it then was - 89-91 - during GW!.

The division in which I worked had Bandit 03 and 04 - I think. I can name names, but might have their bandit numbers wrong - but I think they were both the first USAF boys to fly the 117.

A few weeks before the jet was due to "come out" I found, in a model shop in a mall in Norfolk Va, a 1:72 model which I bought. I glued it together over the weekend, not very well, and on Monday I put it on display on the filing cabinet next to my desk. It took just a few minutes before Bandits 03/04 - AW and WM - arrived to assess the Japanese model manufacturer's views of their "Black" Aircraft. From their reaction, the model was surprisingly accurate!!

Having watched the jet on its first public outing arriving at Langley en-route to GW1, the model makers had done a remarkable job given the "Black" nature of the programme.

Whatever - it most certainly did a quite remarkable job during GW1 - and probably during other conflicts since.

It must have been a great experience for those lucky enough to fly it!!

[NutLoose]

I remember our brand new Chinook at Macrahanish on a visit and sharing the hangar space with a bunch of seals, they had a big built like a bricksh*t house Sgt who was doing the old US thing when they were exercising after having been for a run up some nearby hill, and the Sgt was calling out a seal song, you know the type of crud, "we are in the US Seals,. 1 2 3 4 taking it like a bitch that squeals 1 2 3....4".
So we did one when pumping up the Chinooks accumulator taking the mickey out of the Chinook, the stupid system and the yanks that built it....... He was not impressed.. Station was like a time warp from the 40's, felt sorry for whoever got posted there.

I believe the artist for Flight that did the cutaways worked out what would be where in the F4 and did the drawings for Flight, he had a visit asking him who was slipping him secret drawings, they showed how the had worked out the interior from panel and rivet lines, he later stated during a visit to the factory he was suprised to see his drawing in use as he had got it that correct.

Not exactly a stealthy wobbling Goblin here

http://www.murdoconline.net/2008/F117_Farewell.jpg

:ok:

[chopper2004]

Unfortunately SEALS don't have sgts rank as they're all sailors :) this guys must have been a Chief Petty officer 'Chief' :)

[Ewan Whosearmy]

BomberH

Bandit numbers for the F-117 started in the mid-80s, IIRC.

The MiG pilots of the 4477th TES at Tonopah were the originators of the Bandit call sign, meaning that they had the block of numbers from 0-c.80 to themselves.

Al Whittley was Bandit 150. Wayne Mudge was 163.

[GreenKnight121]

Unfortunately SEALS don't have sgts rank as they're all sailors http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/smile.gif this guys must have been a Chief Petty officer 'Chief' http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/smile.gifOr they weren't actually SEALS... or someone is making up porkies... :E


Of course, a plain, ordinary Sgt is an E-5... same as a Petty Officer 2nd Class.
A Staff Sgt is an E-6 (PO1).
It takes a Gunnery Sgt (USMC) or Sgt First Class (Army) to equal a CPO (E-7).

[SASless]

Being a Chinook....it wouid have been Army not Navy.

But I guess we all look alike as we don't have hat badges like the other side.

[NutLoose]

Chinook was RAF as we had just got them and night stopped at Macrahanish, American who we were told were seals by RAF inmates at Macrahanish, had lots of stripes.. Not being US rank savvy I just put him down as nearest UK equivalent, they did have a fit young lady in their group.


Its runway is 3,049 m long. The United States maintained a Navy SEAL commando unit, a 20 person team known as Naval Special Warfare Detachment 1 (The other overseas Naval Special Warfare Detachments, 2 and 3 were based at Roosevelt Roads, Puerto Rico, and Subic Bay, Philippines) at the base and the Royal Marines occasionally use the facility for training exercises. The civilian airport is located at the opposite end of the base from the hangars, bunkers and the SEAL building.

So must have been seals

RAF Machrihanish (http://www.thelivingmoon.com/45jack_files/03files/RAF_Machrihanish.html)

[DADDY-OH!]

Weren't the SEALs at Mac' a forward deployment covering security for Holy Loch?

[Pure Pursuit]

There were indeed Seals there. Met a few of them in 89. I remember them having their own little area and all being chuffing massive.

Thankfully, I was only there for a week. Not a nice place...

[SASless]

Daddy.....Security for Holy Loch......why sure that sounds good.....lets go with that shall we!

Just like the bunch at Subic Bay were there for security of Cubi Point Air Base and the NavWeps Depot and the Rosie Roads crew were there to guard Camp Garcia on Vieques.

[chopper2004]

Other programs like Boeing Bird of Prey, the Whale battlefield surveillance platform we're revealed and placed in museums over the last decade or so, and even the RQ-170 is now acknowledged (just about) and our lovely F-117 retired (sort of) what's with Tr-3B assuming it is 1000% airframe exists! not being unveiled ?

Cant rememebr offhand around 2 decades ago where there was a reference in 1994 Air International Farnborough issue, special or was it Flight International Farnborogh issue, casuallh mentioning the complement of the TR-3B with the F-117 as a FAC / low obeservable ?

[gr4techie]

I also have an encyclopedia from 1982 that states that part of the break in the 'century series' numbering was to go on a stealth aircraft.

I read that one way of knowing these aircraft existed was looking at the defence spending, there was a black hole that was unaccounted for.

Area 51

Saw something on area 51 that claimed it was the test centre for the U2 and SR-71. Amazingly the staff carried around a chart that had times of the day printed on it, the times were when Soviet spy satellites were due overhead. As the times approached, everything would get towed indoors and once the satellites passed over the aircraft would get towed out again. But what gave the secrets away was when the aircraft were outside their shadow would cause a difference in temperature on the concrete apron that would leave an outline that would show up on a IR camera. So some American with a sense of humour played tricks by drawing fake outlines of funky shaped aircraft with pots of paint. It was a good trick as it fooled the Soviets into thinking the US had superior technology.

http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/b1a21d6507b5.jpg

[NutLoose]

Bruggen used to move the dead Frightnings around for the satellites, the someone realised there was no heat signature, so for a while they used weed burners to heat the ground behind the stone cold engineless hulks, eventually they saw sense and gave up on it all.

[LowObservable]

Someone finally twigged that the Sovs didn't have IR recon sats?

[Pontius Navigator]

Bruggen used to move the dead Frightnings around for the satellites, the someone realised there was no heat signature, so for a while they used weed burners to heat the ground behind the stone cold engineless hulks, eventually they saw sense and gave up on it all.


Apart from the fact that Bruggen didn't operate Lightnings, nor did RAFG as would have been well publicised at the time.

Didn't one of the stations have a half-sized Bloodhound SAM site with nice white missiles?

[NutLoose]

So true PN, but a Frightning standing still looked quicker than a Jag flat out.

[Norma Stitz]

Chopper re 'TR-3B' - the rumours at the time were for a 'TR-3' or 'TR-3A' (and the name Black Manta connected). To this day, it's still believed that the designation came about from distilled conversation regarding Lockheed's Tier 3 UAV.

GR4techie - re sat recon of Groom Lake, 'scoot and hide' taxi-through shelters were eventually built to deal with the problem

Cheers

Norma

[MPN11]

NutLoose ... during one MoD tour I was looking at buying a few sqns of Tornado decoy aircraft for deployment at MOBs. IIRC they came in around £15k per 'airframe', and had built-in thermal (and radar) decoy capability.

And then The Wall came down .... :cool:

[Megaton]

Boscombe Down incident was an F3 dangling a long piece of fibre optic behind it. The road was closed because the bit on the end of the fibre optic hadn't been jettisoned in flight so was trailing behind the jet as it came in to land.

[chopper2004]

Cheers Norma, and HP, remember this

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g209/longranger/KGrHqFHJFFDyOfbuRIBQ6Tni60_12_zps37c23174.jpg

lol

lots of 2 + 2 = 4.5, 6.71 etc etc in the story....in the article itself was an artists impression of what happened to include

C-5A with its nose open ready to receive tarpaulin covered airframe

8 Flt A109A hovering and numerous MoD Police at port arms!!

Prob was in that pic and story depicted many different aircraft that landed in the week or so after whatever incident was said...from a corporate jet with N reg that happened to land at Exeter Airport! Then the T-43A / 737 supposedly visited that they thought was one of EG & G's one (then again hey, didn't USAFE 3 or 4 star have a C-40 anyhow replacing VC-137 'Miss Piggy' anyway at time) oh and throw in one of Odiham#s finest (not sure if that was part of the artists impression)

They claimed the C-5 'happened' to be one of a pair assigned to Palmdale / Plant 42 or whatever its called and on its way to Ramstein on a trans atlantic flight / deployment when it got diverted to Boscombe....

Cheers

[chopper2004]

Hmmm the plot thickens, I heard on the rumor mill, (bar the youtube vid going around) that there are a couple of handfuls of F-117 now in active condition.

Which begs the question, why was it retired anyway? Was it part of costs or the initial kickback that F-22 Raptor and F-35 to a more or lesser extent, classed as more stealthier?

Cheers

[Willard Whyte]

http://www.aroundtherange.********.co.uk

Well, it's on the internet so it must be true.

For some reason blog spot (with no gap) won't post

[500N]

That wasn't the only report from last year that they were flying although I can't seem to find a link to it.

It was interesting how they mothballed them as in very carefully which from what I read meant they could be taken out at reasonably short notice.

[Willard Whyte]

I think mothballing is fairly standard procedure for any (vaguely) flyable, if unwanted, airframes.

The ?Boneyard? at Davis-Monthan Air Force Base | Deano In America (http://deanoinamerica.wordpress.com/2012/02/09/the-boneyard-at-davis-monthan-air-force-base/)

[500N]

Yes, agree. But weren't the F-117's stored in a sealed warehouse as opposed to sent to the bone yard to go through one of the various stages there ?

[Willard Whyte]

Didn't know that, but if so yes, 'tis a bit different.

It would certainly keep them in better condition than under the desert sun covered in spraylat.

Probably a function of keeping the 'stealth coating' both secret and protected to render them as useable as anything else in the Boneyard.

[NutLoose]

Probably a function of keeping the 'stealth coating' both secret.

I think that little turkey was let out of the bag when one was shot down over Serbia, China and Russia no doubt pawed over parts of the remains post crash.

[500N]

Willard

I found the link. Search F-117 storage Tonopath and you'll see the photos.
I notice they had the wings removed !

[FoxtrotAlpha18]

I'm told there are still 3 or 4 flying out of Tonopah...saw one myself from the ground out near Cedar Ranch in late 2012.


The rest are stored in the 'canyon' hangars at Tonopah.

[smujsmith]

I've just stumbled on this thread and believe I can dispel a few myths here. I was SNCO i/c Visiting Aircraft Support Section (VASS) 27 Apr 81 to 11 Nov 83. During that period the first year was spent with having the odd Sea King from HMS Gannet and the twice daily Loganair schedule.

AR1 #45. Nothing about blindfolds etc in the "VAS" crewroom old chap, it was usually so boring that the lads cooked burgers to order for the rest of the station, and delivered by the section Land Rover. For a seven man section, we had a very healthy tea bar fund.

Chopper 2004 #54. I believe the exercise you refer to was a major push by a US Aerospace Rescue and Recovery Service (ARRS). HH53, MC130, CH47 and A10 were all involved. The A10 boys, 509 Tactical Fighter Squadron, were great fun and we enjoyed some beer calls with them. I still have the disarmed round from the gun, presented to me at the time with the squadron patch. The HH53 guys managed to lift most of the families on the station for a day on a beach on Islay, Jura, Gigha or Colonsay. As usual a hardworking, but rewarding exercise.

Throughout my time at Machrihanish I held the inventory for both the Gaydon Hangar and all the dispersal buildings. We saw plenty of RAFG Buccaneers visiting to collect Salmon for their dining in nights. Nimrods and P3s for Loadex. But no Aurora, no F117 and no B2 sadly.

Nutloose #61. I suspect your BSH built Sgt was a Master chief Petty Officer SEAL, known as Tony. He was an Explosives specialist. We had an old Victor fuselage (XH588 comes to mind) that needed moving about 40 feet back on to the newly built Fire section burning area. Having "connections" with crash and smash we borrowed some trac jacks etc to do the job. All the kit arrived and we only had one problem, the nose leg was down, and would be a problem with the move. I explained our problem, and asked Tony if he could "surgically" remove the nose leg. No probs he said. The "controlled" explosion was tannoyed on the Monday morning followed by a large bang. I was allowed to press the firing button and was amazed as the whole fuselage did a precision back flip and landed square in the middle of the burning area, my prowess with the trac Jack was never to be needed.

The only visitor of note during my time at Machrihanish was a certain Mr Paul McCartney. He owned, and still does I believe, a farmhouse behind Rhanachan Hill, to the north East of the station. During my time there we had the pleasure of meeting Him, his wife Linda, Yoko Ono and many other "pop stars". None resembled secret weapons or aircraft, I was never required to don "see nothing" eye patches and perhaps its remote location might easily allow such surmises to be made, but not during my time.

Sorry for the lengthy post, hopefully it helps with the posts I've mentioned. Machrihanish gave me something I will always be grateful for, an 11 Handicap from never having hit a golf ball in 6 months, but that's another story.

Smudge :ok:

[Wensleydale]

Back in the days of the Balkan Bombing Campaigns in the 1990s (I forget which one, but probably Allied Force), the E-3D was controlling the ingress and egress of USAF aircraft on the northern routes with the E-3A controlling the rest from a Southern orbit. The USAF was concerned that the raids on the ATO were leaking to Belgrade and therefore their ATO arrived for us via one of the F-16 Squadrons at Aviano rather than by signal.


One such morning, we took over the orbit with an F-117 raid in progress. Unfortunately, the F-117s were in silent mode and did not check in - they only checked out with us once they left theatre. We were somewhat disconcerted when one of their aircraft listed on the "black" ATO failed to check with us. About 60 minutes of fraught radio transmissions and following CSAR checklists etc followed and only stopped when CAOC finally admitted that the missing aircraft was a no-show but they had declined to tell us for security reasons!


Thanks Guys!

[Norma Stitz]

Re the 'still flying' F-117 discussion, they've been operating from Groom Lake, not Tonopah.

[chopper2004]

Lol Happy Halloween all as this has been floating or flying stealthily around the WWW

Cheers

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g209/longranger/F-19s-at-Tuscon-AMARC-airplane-graveyard_zps5aa8e3f7.jpg

[Stuff]

Isn't photoshop great?

Look here: https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Davis-Monthan+Air+Force+Base/@32.1503021,-110.8332897,782a,20y,90h/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!3m1!1s0x86d6653db2375c9b:0xdf50c8f87748ce3 8
(https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Davis-Monthan+Air+Force+Base/@32.1503021,-110.8332897,782a,20y,90h/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!3m1!1s0x86d6653db2375c9b:0xdf50c8f87748ce3 8)

The 4 B-52s have the right markings to match but since that old image, one F-14 seems to have had it's wings swept and a lot of bits of the B-2 have been taken away.

Throw in a couple of indistinct shapes and you're done!

Edit: And here's the original donor image http://2.bp.********.com/_SF6F08-TM7I/SO9u5nnS19I/AAAAAAAAAA4/Iqh76W9KKCo/s1600-h/F-19s-at-Tuscon-AMARC-airplane-graveyard+REAL.jpg

[Buster Hyman]

Love seeing the B-36 at the museum in that link Stuff. :ok:

[Stuff]

Oops! They all the the same to me when they are in bits...

[Buster Hyman]

They're fully assembled in the Museum. There's even a Hustler there too!

[Janet Spongthrush]

Fot completeness, the F-117A was snapped flying in Sept-14 at Tonopah Test Range, callsign Night 12.

http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,11255.msg233207.html#msg233207

[KenV]

On the subject of Titanic, I believe Bob Ballards team used the dive as a fairly open excuse to do some actual work on some other more recent wrecks in the region - cant remember if they were US or Soviet though. The entire expedition was a convenient front!


Ballard was originally contracted by the US Navy to develop technology and techniques to dive on, take pictures of, and recover parts from the USS Scorpion and USS Thresher, both nuclear submarines which sank with all hands. (Neither submarine has been decommissioned and are officially considered to be on "eternal patrol".) Titanic was located roughly between the two. After that contract was completed, and IF there was time remaining, Ballard was permitted to use the Navy funded technology and equipment to find and dive on the Titanic. The Navy did not expect him to find the Titanic. When he did the Navy was worried about the publicity, but because of the world wide fascination with the Titanic, no one connected the dots. So no, the Titanic operation was not a front. It was a side-trip that Ballard was permitted to go on after executing a contract for the US Navy.

And incidentally, the US Navy constantly acoustically monitors and regularly visits and inspects both submarine sites. They are considered sovereign US territory and the Navy does not condone anyone but them visiting those sites.

[Al R]

Ken,

You're probably familiar with Blind Man's Bluff (http://books.google.co.uk/books/about/Blind_Man_s_Bluff.html?id=845kaNoYqy4C&redir_esc=y). I'm amazed it's classified as non fiction.

[chopper2004]

Apparently there is a logical and no so secret reason why they are still flying.....:mad:

The Aviationist » This is the reason why F-117 stealth jets are still flying. Maybe? (http://theaviationist.com/2014/11/11/reason-behind-f-117-flights/)

[chevvron]

In the photos of Davis Monthan, there is mention of 'B2s'; I don't see any B2s but there are several B1s!(and lotsa B52s)

[GreenKnight121]

Ummm... that is because there ARE no B-2s at DM.

There were exactly 21 B-2s built* - including the 6 test & development airframes which were converted to late-production standard at the end of the production run.

1 was destroyed in a crash (23 February 2008, B-2 Spirit of Kansas, 89-0127), 1 is at the 412th Test Wing at Edward Air Force Base, California, and the other 19 are all at the 509th Bomb Wing at Whiteman Air Force Base, Missouri.


* Plus two test articles, built without engines or instruments for static testing.

[chopper2004]

Goatscukers visit to Bentwaters circa 1986. (Courtesy of Bentwaters Museum)

cheers

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g209/longranger/11017662_10153092695249400_5080547133978469338_o_zpsszxkddvw .jpg

[chopper2004]

Halfway down the page, he talks about fueling the 117 fleet and other unknown (stealth) platforms :mad: for which he cannot disclose.

He also mentions a severe interview without coffee :E could be warranted if when gassing up the likes of the F-117, a mistake happened and the airframe got scratched. Thus leading to the integrity of the airframe material being compromised.

Cheers

[chopper2004]

The F-117 Stealth Fighter Program Actually Had A 'Klingon Cloaking Device' (http://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/the-f-117-stealth-fighter-program-actually-had-a-klingo-1759842067?utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=postplanner&utm_source=facebook.com)



With technology that had never been seen before, the U.S. Air Force went to amazing lengths to keep the stealth F-117 Nighthawk program under tight wraps during the 1980s. As the program matured into an operational force, deploying F-117s in small numbers became a real possibility. But maintaining the aircraft’s veil of secrecy while doing so was uncharted territory. Enter the “Klingon Cloaking Device,” a ruse that would help prove such deployments could work.

[No Fly Zone]

A bit silly. During the development years it is reasonable to assume that the Soviets knew more about the underlying technology than a lot of the folks working on the program. The reason that they did not attempt a duplicate is because they could not afford it. Their science was absolutely excellent; just no Rubles.

[A_Van]

No Fly Zone,


Absolutely right. An excerpt from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stealth_technology


".....During the 1970s the U.S. Department of Defense launched project Lockheed Have Blue (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_Have_Blue), with the aim of developing a stealth fighter. There was fierce bidding between Lockheed and Northrop (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northrop_Corporation) to secure the multibillion-dollar contract. Lockheed incorporated into its bid a text written by the Soviet (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_Union)/Russian (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russians) physicist Pyotr Ufimtsev (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyotr_Ufimtsev) from 1962, titled Method of Edge Waves in the Physical Theory of Diffraction, Soviet Radio, Moscow, 1962. In 1971 this book was translated into English with the same title by U.S. Air Force, Foreign Technology Division.[16] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stealth_technology#cite_note-16) The theory played a critical role in the design of American stealth-aircraft F-117 and B-2.[17] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stealth_technology#cite_note-17)[18] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stealth_technology#cite_note-18)[19] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stealth_technology#cite_note-19) Equations outlined in the paper quantified how a plane's shape would affect its detectability by radar, its radar cross-section (RCS) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radar_cross-section).[20] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stealth_technology#cite_note-20) This was applied by Lockheed in computer simulation to design a novel shape they called the "Hopeless Diamond", a wordplay on the Hope Diamond (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hope_Diamond), securing contractual rights to produce the F-117 Nighthawk (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F-117_Nighthawk) starting in 1975.....".
......


More on that person could be read here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petr_Ufimtsev

[Bevo]

It was not the lack of funds but a lack of understanding of the ability of turning the Ufimtsev’s work into a practical air vehicle. For example the USSR had the funds to develop the MiG-29 and the Su-27 both of which first flew in (1977) the same year as the Have Blue project and went operational one year before the F-117. In addition Ufmtsev’s work was specifically associated with antenna development and not radar signature reduction. So there is no indication that the Soviets were close to understanding low signature technology at the time of the F-117’s development. If there was any understanding that Ufmtsev's work had practical military applications his paper would have been highly classified.

"In Rich's own words, the unsung hero of Lockheed's effort was an anonymous staff mathematician and electrical engineer named Denys Overholser. Overholser and his mentor, another mathematician named Bill Schroeder, had discussed the possibilities of utilizing some of the equations associated with optical scattering (how electromagnetic waves bounce off variously shaped objects) on this project. Both had the rather odd hobby of reading obscure Russian mathematics papers and had made the ultimate "nerd's nerd" discovery. They had stumbled across a paper published in Moscow a decade earlier titled "Method of Edge Waves in the Physical Theory of Diffraction." It had been written by Pyotr Ufimtsev, the Soviet's chief scientist at the Moscow Institute of Radio Engineering and the last in a long line of scientists developing a long series of wave equations originally derived centuries ago by the Scottish physicist James Clerk Maxwell.

The U.S. intelligence community had helped translate this research and brought it to the West. The paper was in no way classified or related to weapons development at all. It was purely theoretical math. Years later, Ufimtsev immigrated to the United States to teach at the University of California, Los Angeles, and only then discovered his inadvertent contribution to the development of stealth aircraft.

The equations that Ufimtsev had developed made the reflections of radio waves off hard surfaces predictable. Not invisible, transparent, or tactical in any way-just predictable. The problem for Lockheed was that the calculations were so ferociously difficult that the most advanced supercomputers in the world at the time could only compute results for flat surfaces. Any attempt to perform the calculations for the curved surfaces you would find on a conventional aircraft-well, those machines would still be grinding away toward a solution today.

Schroeder recognized how these equations could be applied to Lockheed's current project. The solution was not even to attempt to design an aircraft with any curved surfaces, but to build one with dozens, or perhaps hundreds, of individual flat triangular and rectangular plates. Then the challenge was to compute the reflection from each and every flat surface before adding them all together to build a picture of the aircraft's total radar signature. Once you knew where every bit of radar reflection was coming from, you could then reorient those individual plates so that the reflection would go off in a direction away from the radar looking at it."

LINK (http://gizmodo.com/5902800/how-lockheeds-skunk-works-got-into-the-stealth-fighter-business)

[chopper2004]

Testors' model was of the fictional 'F-19':

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a341/nw969/leef19a.jpg Model by Dan Lee

Before the F-117 was unveiled, I made a number of 'zaps' based on a picture of the 'Lockheed F-19', allegedly of the '???th TFW, Tonopah AFB' which I used to leave lying around in the USA - or stuck firmly under the perspex in various Base Ops planning rooms...:E

I also left one inside the cockpit of a U-2 at Patrick AFB - they must have wondered about that!

Beags mate, came across this today:

This USAF Intelligence Squadron's Insignia Appears to Show the "F-19 Specter" - The Drive (http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/15337/this-usaf-intelligence-squadrons-insignia-appears-to-show-the-f-19-specter)

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/796/39293132680_565b994040_h.jpg

Maybe there was a classified program (one of many) run at some time possibly 80s in parallel with F-117 utilising the 19 Specter shape then so decades later, an reserve intel unit of not much publicity unit badge has a fictional a/c on it?

Any thoughts?

cheers

[chopper2004]

It looks like au contraire to the final final flight of the remaining F-117A s after Frits lot of retirement.

New Video Of F-117s Flying Out Of Tonopah Emerges Despite Their Fates Being Sealed - The Drive (http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/22487/new-video-of-f-117s-flying-out-of-tonopah-emerges-despite-their-fates-being-sealed)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZBfOmZACNM

[Davef68]

They have been flying a couple in recent years to test new technology

[ORAC]

Since its retirement from active flying status in 2008, the Air Force’s cadre of F-117 Nighthawks have been maintained at their original, climate-friendly hangars at the Tonopah Test Range Airport in Nevada. Given the cost of establishing secure storage facilities at Aircraft Maintenance and Regeneration Center (AMARC at Davis-Monthan AFB), the Air Force chose instead to store the retired F-117s at the pre-existing secure facilities at Tonopah Test Range.

Per Congressional direction within the FY07 National Defense Authorization Act the aircraft were placed in Type 1000, flyable storage for potential recall to future service. In order to confirm the effectiveness of the flyable storage program, some F-117 aircraft are occasionally flown."

https://aviation.stackexchange.com/questions/33188/is-the-f-117-fleet-at-tonopah-test-range-being-mothballed

[MPN11]

Oh, are we allowed to talk about F-117 now? :)

[SASless]

Is the F-117 as much a phantom as the new UK Fighter going to be?

[chopper2004]

https://aviation.stackexchange.com/questions/33188/is-the-f-117-fleet-at-tonopah-test-range-being-mothballed

Even though they were retired then kept flying for T & E of new systems then retired again for the last time.

https://theaviationist.com/2019/02/27/new-photos-of-f-117-stealth-jet-flying-over-panamint-valley-appear-on-social-media/

[k3k3]

As for retired aircraft still flying, I saw EF-111 aircraft flying from Mountain Home AFB in December 2001.

[sandiego89]

A few years ago the explanation was a few were flown periodically to ensure functionality during long term storage (inviolet/ type 1000 storage?) A several hour flight at low level and using terrain masking in 2019 seems a bit more than an airframe function test. The 117 wasn't normally down low.

[chopper2004]

Turns out they may have seen combat the other year....

https://theaviationgeekclub.com/four-retired-f-117-stealth-fighters-were-secretly-deployed-to-the-middle-east-and-conducted-air-strikes-in-syria-and-iraq-in-2017-scramble-magazine-says/


Cheers

[BVRAAM]

Turns out they may have seen combat the other year....

https://theaviationgeekclub.com/four-retired-f-117-stealth-fighters-were-secretly-deployed-to-the-middle-east-and-conducted-air-strikes-in-syria-and-iraq-in-2017-scramble-magazine-says/


Cheers

Yeah. I don't believe that one. Scramble Magazine is also known for its significant inaccuracies.

[RAFEngO74to09]

Coincidentally, this video appeared on You Tube on / around 1 Mar 19:
Panamint Valley - callsign LEHI 1 on 27 Feb 19 - in 1080p HD
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XyjhHMD5kak

[RAFEngO74to09]

Cell phone video posted 1 Mar 19:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5dMnHCXDRs

[RAFEngO74to09]

More extracts from recent social media posts - with photos - published in the The Aviationist:

https://theaviationist.com/2019/02/27/new-photos-of-f-117-stealth-jet-flying-over-panamint-valley-appear-on-social-media/

[TEEEJ]

1st March, Death Valley.
https://twitter.com/jerodharris/status/1101505714906849280

[Davef68]

Distraction from something else?

[treadigraph]

Well, I didn't see that coming...

[unmanned_droid]

And now there's a rumour that 4x F-117 aircraft were sent on a combat mission over Syria in 2017, using SDBs.

[Rhino power]

And now there's a rumour that 4x F-117 aircraft were sent on a combat mission over Syria in 2017, using SDBs.
Is that the same four that have already been mentioned in post #118?

-RP

[unmanned_droid]

Is that the same four that have already been mentioned in post #118?

-RP

Yup. My deepest apologies.

Still, it's BS.

[chopper2004]

Supposdedly, one of the recently seen F-117A has 'Dark Knights' on its fin stripe thus leading to the conclusion a unit by this name is operating it. Safe to say the previous 37th/49th FW never had a squadron nicknamed the 'Dark Knights'.

https://airforcesmonthly.keypublishing.com/2019/03/18/dark-knights-a-new-f-117-squadron/?fbclid=IwAR1S4TmLUN-pmo0d4Tcqq18Cf-25BxX46bzIJ2uvSAGTAPppk-e9N_Ker4k

[unmanned_droid]

Supposdedly, one of the recently seen F-117A has 'Dark Knights' on its fin stripe thus leading to the conclusion a unit by this name is operating it. Safe to say the previous 37th/49th FW never had a squadron nicknamed the 'Dark Knights'.

https://airforcesmonthly.keypublishing.com/2019/03/18/dark-knights-a-new-f-117-squadron/?fbclid=IwAR1S4TmLUN-pmo0d4Tcqq18Cf-25BxX46bzIJ2uvSAGTAPppk-e9N_Ker4k

Great photo.

I would think that there are a couple of aircraft supporting testing activities and I guess they've got to be operated by someone. Or, it's to mess with the guys out camping in the desert waiting for them to fly over.

[chopper2004]

Appears the Wobbly Goblin plus Edwards based NKc-135 have been out to play off the coast.

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/33535/f-117-nighthawk-stealth-jets-just-flew-a-mission-off-the-southern-california-coast

cheers

[The AvgasDinosaur]

In the linked article it states that it is legally mandated that the F-117 must be destroyed by the end of this decade!
Why under what legislation??
could someone please explain.
Thanks
David

[Stuff]

From: https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/29606/51-f-117-nighthawk-stealth-jets-remain-in-inventory-only-one-destroyed-in-last-two-years

Until 2016, there was a legal requirement to keep the F-117s in so-called "Type 1000 (https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/28015/a-b-52h-nicknamed-wise-guy-becomes-the-second-to-ever-come-back-from-the-bone-yard)" storage, meaning that they would be maintained in a state where they could be returned to active service relatively quickly, if necessary. The annual defense policy bill, or National Defense Authorization Act, for the 2017 Fiscal Year nullified this and replaced it with the four-per-year disposal plan. The Air Force Life Cycle Management Center at Wright Patterson Air Force Base in Ohio subsequently developed what it calls a "migration plan" for how to get rid of the F-117s.

I have no idea how accurate that is. If you google for the Act mentioned it doesn't seem to say 4 a year anywhere https://www.congress.gov/114/crpt/hrpt840/CRPT-114hrpt840.pdf

[Martin the Martian]

Very, very interesting article on the F-117 and the RAF in the June edition of The Aeroplane. Well worth a read.

[gums]

Salute!

Not surprising, or maybe it is, but somebody realized we had a 2nd generation low observable platform to use for training and development of tactics when future adversaries have LO platforms, manned and UAV's.

Gotta talk with some of my friends that flew the things, but previous rejoins seem to indicate that the 117 was more optimized for surface-to-air systems than A2A. And that makes sense, as our primary threat at the time was heavily dependent upon good GCI to get interceptors into a firing solution.

Some of us have questioned using F-35's in Red Flag, as "exposure" can be exploited by potential adversaries. Better to keep the actual capabilities as "hole cards", huh?

Gums sends...

[Airbubba]

Appears the Wobbly Goblin plus Edwards based NKc-135 have been out to play off the coast.

Looks like they were out again today with the tanker from these radio logs:

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/584x978/spotters_de6d1e8711c5cbabbc81e2f95d3c057bdb0a479f.jpg

MilRadioComms - Military Radio Frequncies, HF, VHF, UHF (http://www.milradiocomms.com/)

[Green Flash]

The wobblies plus tanker out and about in broad daylight https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/33593/f-117s-flew-directly-over-los-angeles-on-another-mission-off-the-southern-california-coast

[AR1]

This thread is a blast from the past. The amount of DMs I got questioning me over the (what I thought was a) blatant wind up re marshalling with blindfolds was unreal. It even made it into ARRSE.

[gums]

Salute!

As one of my foreign students in a old plane said after a long briefing by an IP trying too hard to make points for his annual checkride, walking out to the planes....

"What he say?"

Other student calmly replies, "we go fly now."

Anybody know what AR1 was saying?

Gums asks...

[AR1]

Anybody know what AR1 was saying?

Gums asks...

Post #45 this thread (https://www.pprune.org/military-aviation/453162-f-117-secrecy-3.html#post6490512) Gums.

[T28B]

Another article on F-117, this one about its air to air role.
https://theaviationist.com/2020/06/03/f-117s-had-an-air-to-air-capability-with-secondary-mission-to-shoot-down-soviet-awacs-former-stealth-pilot-says/

[Ewan Whosearmy]

Not convinced about the F-117 having a secret HVA air-to-air role. Chris Topham was asked the question directly and he said that while it could carry the AIM-9, it had no way of employing it:

https://youtu.be/lJkRREyPXA4

[etudiant]

Not convinced about the F-117 having a secret HVA air-to-air role. Chris Topham was asked the question directly and he said that while it could carry the AIM-9, it had no way of employing it:

https://youtu.be/lJkRREyPXA4

That seems quite consistent with the Aviationist article, which indicates the idea was there but never implemented.

[Dan Gerous]

I got in on a visit to the sneaky site at Khamis after GW1, and asked one of the pilots if they did any Air Combat training on the F117 . He said they didn't do any. At least we got an answer to that one, as I think some of the questions we asked were a bit to sensitive to answer.

[LOMCEVAK]

I have seen a picture of a test firing. As I recall the missile was lowered from the bomb bay on the trapeze and then fired. I do not know whether this was a boost non-guided firing or a guided launch.

[Tashengurt]

I heard a podcast in which the ex F117 guy said they had a plan to target Mainstays if war broke out.

[chopper2004]

work up to Iraqi Freedom ....then again if the Bundesheer receivers their Typhoons at the time ...wonder if could be tracked on a numerous way..

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/35025/the-time-when-the-usaf-got-caught-trying-to-sneak-f-117s-through-austrian-airspace

[NutLoose]

Very, very interesting article on the F-117 and the RAF in the June edition of The Aeroplane. Well worth a read.

There was, the Uk were offered them but declined

[RAFEngO74to09]

At least 4 x F-117s used as Red Air on Red Flag 20-3:

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/35748/f-117-nighthawks-now-appear-to-be-flying-as-adversaries-in-red-flag-aerial-war-games

[chopper2004]

Pair of them landed at MCAS Miramar with callsigns of ‚Knight‘ and it was no emergency divert either.

https://theaviationist.com/2020/10/21/two-f-117-nighthawk-stealth-jets-have-landed-at-mcas-miramar/?fbclid=IwAR0zG4sNKVEPnlZKJ3mrveWes7vf4_d9lkKB5e35HqevYfDgLp Hf5r4oxjM

[RAFEngO74to09]

Excellent video here showing 2 x F-117 departing MCAS Miramar on October 22:

https://youtu.be/1D4ehguQgA0

[RAFEngO74to09]

Now spotted at Nellis AFB too:

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1250/image_e5213c8c6f59d75bc60dc47a5eac5d45269884a5.png

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1250/image_71761cbd4851e9ade3c3672c0a423a790c3977f0.png

[sandiego89]

Neat to see them still flying.

Didn't the 117 fleet go to a gray scheme when at Holloman and until their supposed retirement? Seems all the more recent sighting are in the black scheme (which looks better). Wonder why the switch back to black?

[Ewan Whosearmy]

Neat to see them still flying.

Didn't the 117 fleet go to a gray scheme when at Holloman and until their supposed retirement? Seems all the more recent sighting are in the black scheme (which looks better). Wonder why the switch back to black?

IIRC, they only painted one grey.

[unmanned_droid]

Yes the gray scheme was a test and wasn't adopted. I think there may have been more than 1 in Gray and more than 1 scheme according to something I've read on the net.

Edited to add:
Article about the 'Gray dragon' here:

https://theaviationist.com/2013/02/25/gray-dragon-story/

Comments further down make reference to a 'Gray Ghost' aircraft included in trials in the mid 1990s from someone apparently there.

There was also a 'desert' scheme on one F-117A.

[NutLoose]

And one with a big flag underneath.

[Davef68]

Y
There was also a 'desert' scheme on one F-117A.

Very like the scheme employed by a certain Middle east country

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/744x399/f_117_camo_19f16cf1db948bc82953698fe2c0b72aa9ca3634.jpg

[unmanned_droid]

Very like the scheme employed by a certain Middle east country

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/744x399/f_117_camo_19f16cf1db948bc82953698fe2c0b72aa9ca3634.jpg

Yes, almost enough to start a rumour eh....

[chopper2004]

First time I saw one was Mildenhall Air Fete 96 so here are my photos..

cheers


https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/960x720/b4006365_f0dd_411b_83ec_fa6957d0dced_e29f4825842b0f07df82366 2c4dca0e10ba258b5.jpeg
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/960x770/443740d2_43fc_45bf_b93b_fbdb95209afe_be53d74266ad949012173c2 854083965b1e86437.jpeg

[chopper2004]

3 decades and fortnight ago Desert Storm kicked off with the Wobbly Goblin seine action for second time ...

Anyhow reminiscent of this the 117 has been cleared to being tanked up.

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/38914/f-117s-cleared-to-refuel-from-all-kc-135s-as-retired-stealth-jets-expand-operations?xid=fbshare&fbclid=IwAR0t-9K-KYoFveEZdUWFoqrOhYH4pEHoVcjKmou1sLAkT8QItURqjKyBaQ8

cheers

[NutLoose]

Interesting, I was reading about the F-19's in the boneyard this very morning.

[chopper2004]

The Drive reviewed the events of 94 in deep dark Wiltshire they could have waited another 3 years and be 30th anniversary.


https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/37371/the-boscombe-down-incident-remains-one-of-military-aviations-most-intriguing-mysteries?fbclid=IwAR1BGOzBxJkBg8EQmfMEXSQxFZl7IGrivPcZnlkqR WP_LR7gT-rqCeJwcJc

cheers

[chevvron]

The Drive reviewed the events of 94 in deep dark Wiltshire they could have waited another 3 years and be 30th anniversary.


https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/37371/the-boscombe-down-incident-remains-one-of-military-aviations-most-intriguing-mysteries?fbclid=IwAR1BGOzBxJkBg8EQmfMEXSQxFZl7IGrivPcZnlkqR WP_LR7gT-rqCeJwcJc

cheers
Factually incorrect calling Boscombe an RAF airfield, it was a government airfield under the control of MOD(PE) then MOD/DPA (ie NOT MOD[Air]) until it was re-titled 'T & EE' instead of 'A & AEE' and didn't become a DRA or DERA untl later.
NB I'm not saying the events described didn't happen; experimental flying from Farnborough had only just moved there in 1994 and there was still some 'interoperation' between the two airfields with Farnborough retaining arrestor gear and sufficient AFRS to be a Crash Div for Boscombe.

[SATCOS WHIPPING BOY]

I am saying it never happened.
I was there for 6 years.

However we did get some great pax trips ina flying saucer... once went to Rigel and back in a lunch break. ;-)

[BossEyed]

chevvron, Boscombe was never "T&EE"; was there ever any such thing? Maybe the likes of Pendine?

From A&AEE (in two incarnations) Boscombe became became DGT&E (for a very short period) then DTEO then DERA then QQ. I may even have missed one during the Years of Chaos.

I was there at the time of the supposed incident, too and agree with SATCO'sWB: It never happened and you can't get a decent lunch on Rigel.

[BEagle]

After A squared, E squared, it became known to many at the time as 'Queera'......

Then it became KwintyKwoo (QinetiQ) or some other bolleaux.

[BossEyed]

More salt with that, Beagle?

[Paying Guest]

.......or simply just Sleepy Hollow as it was known in my time there

[LOMCEVAK]

The Drive reviewed the events of 94 in deep dark Wiltshire they could have waited another 3 years and be 30th anniversary.


https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/37371/the-boscombe-down-incident-remains-one-of-military-aviations-most-intriguing-mysteries?fbclid=IwAR1BGOzBxJkBg8EQmfMEXSQxFZl7IGrivPcZnlkqR WP_LR7gT-rqCeJwcJc

cheers
I remember that this story first broke in the Sunday Express. At the main Morning Briefing at Boscombe the next day the Group Captain stood up and asked if anyone knew what it was all about (I was there)!

Please let me state a few facts that I believe explain some of the points raised.
1. The only time that I can recall the main Amesbury to Salisbury road being closed was around that time period and it was when a Tornado F3 recovered to runway 05 from a Towed Radar Decoy trial and they had been unable to wind in or jettison the decoy. This did happen so it was not a 'cover story'.
2. At that time there were often some interesting USAF C-12 variants that landed at Boscombe and spent some time on the ground there. I have no idea why they came in.
3. The strange aircraft in the hangar was Tornado F2A ZD 902, the Tornado Integrated Avionics Research Aircraft, and the hangar was what is now called B168. It was in for maintenance and had the airbrakes open, the canopy removed and the top of the nose that held the windscreen hinged forward to allow access behind the instrument panel. A tarpaulin had been draped over the open cockpit space to keep the cockpit clean as there were a significant number of pigeons that roosted in the roof. One reason that I remember this is that I saw it and it looked very strange. The hangar doors were open both ends and with the afternoon sun angle and shadow it did look like a twin-finned aircraft with a forward hinging canopy.
4. C-5s had landed at Boscombe but the only time that I remember seeing one there was for IAT in 1990. I also recall that it taxied where it should not and sank into the surface. The surfaces that were strong enough for one were fairly limited.

I have no reason to try to dispel any conspiracy theories but I do remember this story because it caused quite a stir on base at the time.

L

[SATCOS WHIPPING BOY]

I concur with LOMCEVAK.
Ref the towed decoy, I was the ATC Sup for that particular recovery and Wilts Police were very understanding. We had two patrol cars on the Amesbury to Salisbury road ready to close it within about 10 mins of making the request for assistance. No one knew how low the decoy would be at recovery speeds so the closure was a precaution. This happened in day time.

Other "events" that aid the conspiritors.

Late one night a car crashed on the Allington Track to the east of the airfied. Fire section were first on scene and helped extricate two minor casualties from a car - which just hapened to be a black Opel Manta - comms on storno helped fuel the conspiracy.

Unmarked CIA aircraft, was actually an Italian one that was over for a period of AAR trials. I know because I was tasked to give the crews the local airspace briefing with L**** F** who was their dedicated Sqn host . Sadly he lost his life a few years later in a tragic accident at Edwards AFB.

SAS/SBS helos were regular transit / stop off visitors so nothing unusual there.

*C-5 visitor was special at that time but came in to pick up two sea king cabs if memory serves me right (again).

In the top hangar I also believe there was an early Typhoon cockpit front end which was either for crew demo or may have been used down at the ejection bay test bed just behind the tower. Nothing existed aft of the canopy hinge so when viewed it did look like a stubby nosed bit of kit with an odd opening canopy. LOMCEVAK's explanation sounds more likely though as he worked that side of the airfield. To us ATCO's it was bandit country up there...unless Tom Cruise and Nicole Kidman were involved then we did pop over for drinks LOL

Night time tyre burst of note at that time was, if memory serves me right, a Harrier out of either Farnborough or Dunsfold (could have been a Blackbox c/s) and the theorists love anything with black in the name. The runway was BLACK for sometime that night and that info was passed to LonMil who passed the info over the airwaves to our aircraft that were still out and about that night. I wasn't in tower that night but did the airfield inspection as Local Controller at 6.30 am the following day. No sign of any green blood on the runway but some nice fresh rubber skid marks.

Also, at one point, can't remember the date, but I was part of the FOD plod after the BAC 1-11 landed and scraped aluminium u/c doors down most of the length of the runway.

The original article was in the telegraph (that we saw) a copy of which was glued into the ATC Sups Log book and referenced ALL the inconsequential events which, put together to have happend on one night saw ...
An alien-tech flying machine, codename Black Manta, crashing at a Top Secret (UK Area 51-esque) Base, Two injured occupants were whisked away by CIA operatives in an unregistered 737 under the watchful eye of the SAS, whilst SBS guarded the wreckage which was under tarpaulin from their bivvy of an upturned rubber dingy - until a C-5 came in to remove it back to Nevada.

*another funny story about the C5 and how to scare the s%$£ out of a fellow controller, but I'll save that for another day :-)
IAT at Boscombe was 1992.

[Training Risky]

Factually incorrect calling Boscombe an RAF airfield, it was a government airfield under the control of MOD(PE) then MOD/DPA (ie NOT MOD[Air]) until it was re-titled 'T & EE' instead of 'A & AEE' and didn't become a DRA or DERA untl later.
NB I'm not saying the events described didn't happen; experimental flying from Farnborough had only just moved there in 1994 and there was still some 'interoperation' between the two airfields with Farnborough retaining arrestor gear and sufficient AFRS to be a Crash Div for Boscombe.

Boscombe WAS an RAF airfield: In 1930 the site reopened as Royal Air Force Boscombe Down as a bomber station in the Air Defence of Great Britain (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Defence_of_Great_Britain) command, the fore-runner of RAF Fighter Command (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAF_Fighter_Command). The first unit to operate from the new airfield was No. 9 Squadron (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No._9_Squadron_RAF) which started operating the Vickers Virginia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vickers_Virginia) heavy bomber on 26 February 1930.

wikipedia link (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MoD_Boscombe_Down)

[chopper2004]

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/41163/why-the-f-117-made-its-first-flight-in-pastel-camouflage-40-years-ago-today?fbclid=IwAR3sHVq5qZLTGEaxcc2d24w3Cee_KzetjJPEKG--Q7UsLaQGzsDzM42HufA


https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/960x521/c241e191_e02c_4bb2_ba48_a52f932d10e9_599e337ae758b68dc896569 826ccc5572d83736c.jpeg

[RAFEngO74to09]

Out and about again - now provided Red Air aggressor training for ANG units from their home bases

F-117 at Fresno Airport 9-14-2021 - YouTube

[RAFEngO74to09]

More videos and photos here:
Behold F-117s On Their Historic Deployment To Fresno In These Stunning Shots (thedrive.com) (https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/42410/behold-f-117s-on-their-historic-deployment-to-fresno-in-these-stunning-shots)

[sandiego89]

More videos and photos here:
Behold F-117s On Their Historic Deployment To Fresno In These Stunning Shots (thedrive.com) (https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/42410/behold-f-117s-on-their-historic-deployment-to-fresno-in-these-stunning-shots)

Some great photos in the drive article, with the underside shots especially interesting. No serial numbers on the tails. Can anyone ID the unit badge on the starboard intake? Imagine the badge is a left over from operational days, as they still have some mission markings on the cockpit side.

[Airbubba]

The serials appear to be 84-0811 and 88-0841 from markings on the gear and bay doors visible in the released photos.

U.S. Air National Guard photos by Capt. Jason Sanchez

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1620x1080/f_117_2_210915_z_gl728_150_large__24c757686edfcaa618985a7690 343cf2bb6add6d.jpg
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1619x1080/f_117_210913_z_gl728_139_large__14ece4f57c2612922ac6b4afa5c9 ed6e71cf2985.jpg

[Airbubba]

Here's the unit badge on the right side from a photo by Fred Taleghani.


https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1440x1080/f_117_message_editor_1631820142813_dsc_853431_2_large__68735 a90cdc4764248b3378492f23784b1a517c7.jpg

[RAFEngO74to09]

F-117A participating as stealth Red Air in the major ANG Ex SENTRY SAVANNAH 2022

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NsxB8wk-keY

[chopper2004]

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/920x2000/7136a11b_bb71_4fc2_8edf_2957c4045234_7455ffa12ccacf9b151dffe 99d86ebf29a138b77.jpeg

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/920x2000/bc7fe55e_4735_4d0d_93ce_4097b0b4a46a_76746285bece573ce9be4dc 9b14185aeb8808878.jpeg

[chopper2004]

Very interesting article and videos / photos

https://www.dreamlandresort.com/trip_reports/trip_186.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFq4bOsK9Lw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWKTpdDJ194

cheers