Vickers Viscount-Aviation's Aristocracy

[radioian]

Hi all,

Ive flown on the same Vickers Viscount both as a kid ( in 1972) and as an adult ( in 1996). G-APEY is the machine, and it flew off away from Britain's shores back in 1997 for a new life in Africa. Its possible that there is one airworthy specimen left, out of a build of 4 1/2 hundred. First flown in 1948, and several still in use in Africa until a few years ago ( with the possible aformentioned airworthy one left?) the Viscount had a wonderful sound, and looked graceful flying overhead. Many people's first holiday flight was on a Viscount, going to the Sun.

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s320/radioian/1160023.jpg

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s320/radioian/1166292.jpg

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s320/radioian/1255362.jpg

Any flight stories, as Pilots or Cabin crew, from these magnificent aircraft? Your input would be much enjoyed! Most people who know nothing about aircraft that Ive talked to, usually pipe up with a comment like " Oh! I flew on a Viscount!"--its well remembered.

My first flight on G-APEY , a longer bodied 800 series, was in 1972 on B.E.A , replacing a Trident3 which had gone u/s , and the massive windows and shrill sound of the Rolls-Royce Darts were never to be forgotten by me. I had the chance to fly again on her again in 1996, when British Air Ferries were stopping passenger flights and converting all of their Viscounts to cargofreighter specification . It was also successful in breaking sales to the U.S.A. and China ( final production in 1964 of 1/2 a dozen aircraft going there for C.A.A.C.).

[LAS1997]

I agree; a splendid aircraft was the Viscount. I flew as a passenger in G-BAPF an ex-South African airways machine that ended up in the BMA fleet. It was the early 1980's and I flew on it a number of times from LHR to LBA. I was at Brooklands museum earlier this week with my young daughter and we boarded the former British Air Ferries Viscount that is preserved; sadly no engines will run on this machine; but they do have some sound of a Viscount engine they occasionally play through the old P/A system!

It would be nice to see an airworthy Viscount fly; I guess the chances in the UK are zero; but maybe in Southern Africa? Even if its just fast taxi runs; just to hear those Rolls Royce Dart's screaming away, marvelous!

What an adventure perhaps to get one airworthy and fly her home to the UK? Now there's a thought!

[Capetonian]

I flew on CAA, Air Rhodesia and SAA Viscounts. Magnificent machines which had personality and charisma. Sadly two of RH's were shot down by terrorist murderers, whose successors are still in power in the country.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

I flew on BEA Viscounts a couple of times and worked with them whilst abroad. Great crews and I daren't relate any of the stories on here! Wonder what happened to Capt Bert Orris..?
The Viscount was an infinitely better looking aircraft than the great lard-bag the Trident and must have been the last civil airliner produced in such a large quantity in the UK.

[aviate1138]

As young-ish SLF I flew to Germany a few times and will always remember those wonderful windows which were the closest thing to actually sitting outside! Would be wonderful to see one flying again...........

Boscombe Down had a rasberry ripple one with a pointy FJ radar nose that used to fly extremely low level over Norfolk/Suffolk back in the late 70's. Anyone got pics of that machine?

And that strident Dart note.......

[603DX]

I also agree that the Viscount was a charismatic aircraft, never to be forgotten once you had flown in one. My initial trip was in 1964 to Guernsey, for a first visit to my new girlfriend's home island. I checked in at BEA's West London Air Terminal in Cromwell Road, South Kensington. That was before the tube link direct to Heathrow was built, and was also well before all the world and his wife started travelling by air on low priced mass package holidays. The feeling of doing something special and dare I say it, "posh", was encouraged by the smart, modern air terminal and the swift dedicated BEA transport to Heathrow, with the luggage already checked in and towed behind the bus ready for loading on arrival.

Most passengers dressed smartly for the flight experience then, and the appearance and aura of the sleek and modern Viscount on boarding seemed to justify that sartorial effort. Big oval windows, comfortable seats, and that thrilling whine from the four Darts all combined to give the short-haul journey a tingling excitement sadly no longer felt nowadays, the novelty having long since worn off. Oh, and I was in a pleasant mood of anticipation at seeing my girlfriend, a student nurse in London, briefly home in Guernsey and waiting to show me around. During that blissful journey I couldn't resist putting down the drinks table and standing a 3d coin on edge on it (the old threepenny bit, pre-decimalisation). This was a popular gimmick to demonstrate the lack of vibration on turbo-props at that time. And it stayed upright, just as it should!

I've never forgotten that first Viscount experience, and like LAS1997 I entered the Brooklands example with a feeling of pleasant familiarity a couple of years ago. What memories it stirred! And I eventually married that young Guernsey nurse, so everything went perfectly ... :)

[Props]

Sadly Bert passed away a few years ago but still missed by those who knew him.A true gentleman.

[scotbill]

BA Viscount 800 farewell tour to Kirkwall March 1982
http://s1198.photobucket.com/albums/aa453/scotbill/?action=view&current=33ViscountsKirkwall82-1.jpg
http://i1198.photobucket.com/albums/aa453/scotbill/33ViscountsKirkwall82-1.jpg

[boris]

LAS1997

G-BAPF was an ex Lufthansa/Condor aircraft and was an 814 whereas the ex SAA machines were all 813s. The story goes that the then Mike Bishop went to SA and put in a bid for either one or two of their fleet and finished up with all seven plus a simulator and several tons of spares which helped keep BMA viable for a good few years.

I agree that they were a wonderful old aircraft. I flew them off and on for twenty years and still (I think) miss them.

[LAS1997]

Thanks Boris; yes of course the BMA Viscount G-BAPF was indeed ex-Lufthansa. I flew over it a few weeks ago in a helicopter. It now rests at Morton-in-Marsh; the Home Office Fire Training College in Hot Air colours.

[The SSK]

I know this will get me into trouble (it has in the past) but an ex colleague of mine, who had been Chief Pilot with Aer Lingus (and had a very close association with Viscounts) thought that the aircraft was an absolute dog ‘redeemed only by the excellence of its engines’.

[scotbill]

Was he by any chance American trained? There was an American view that, "With 4 good enough engines you can fly a s***house door; you guys have managed to fly the entire s***house". Most of those who flew the Viscount on this side of the pond thought this was probably motivated by professional jealousy emanating from a rival US manufacturer.

We tend to forget what an incredible technical advance the Viscount was in the 50s (800 in particular). Dakota UK domestic block times were halved - often within a few minutes of what current jets achieve - and smoothness and pressurised comfort were simply in a different league. The 800 cockpit was the first in Britain to attempt an ergonomic layout.
As my earlier pic showed, they were still providing reliable service to the islands of Scotland till 1982.
I could go on!

[Helen49]

The mainstay of domestic flying during the 60's and 70's and a frequent visitor to most UK airports! So popular with numerous, mainly long gone, operators. Good looking, the unmistakeable sound of four darts and with those splendid windows a delightful mode of transport. Fond memories.

[hurn]

My father used to work on Viscounts at Hurn airport back in the day. I've got some old pictures somewhere.

[biscuit74]

Radioian,

That last shot was a magnificent picture, with a group of superb aircraft I remember well - and both the Viscount and the VC-10 in what I still think of as their 'proper' colours. When & where was it taken do you know?

The Viscount was one of my favourite airliners, with its large oval windows, lovely noise - and much greater speed & comfort than the old BEA Dakotas, even late on when used by Alidair (?) for oil charter flights to Shetland. (Though I also liked the Caravelle - it amazes me that the Brussels Air museum has an early model hanging from its ceiling ! Smaller than I recalled. )

And - ah VC-10s. Wonderful on the East Africa run.

My wife also flew quite a few times on a BOAC Viscount - "The Scottish Princess" . One of only two as far as I know, the other being "The Scottish Prince". One did the Scottish link runs from Prestwick, the other the Irish one.

Happy days.

[Opssys]

Ah Viscount - First time Gibraltar Airways to Tangier back in 1971.

Re Air Rhodesia see:Viscounts in Africa – The Air Rhodesia Story - Disasters (http://home.iprimus.com.au/rob_rickards/viscounts/disasters.htm) - The Hunyani Disaster (http://home.iprimus.com.au/rob_rickards/viscounts/hunyani.htm)and The Umniati Disaster (http://home.iprimus.com.au/rob_rickards/viscounts/umniati.htm). The first of these produced one of the most powerful sermons from an Anglican Minister in Modern times see: The Silence is Deafening (http://www.douglas-ian-holland.co.uk/pdf-files/sermons/the_silence.pdf)

[Ian Burgess-Barber]

The aircraft was a major memory of my younger days - will any aircraft ever have such great big windows again? - I doubt it. My Mum returned from Paris on one in the first year of it's service 1953, - and I wish I had a pound for every flight I took on them in the 60s 70s and 80s. BA retired them from their regional fleets in 1985, but I recall two more return trips on this wonderful a/c at later dates.
In the late 80s and early 90s I worked (for my sins) in what is known as 'Corporate Hostility', sorry, correction, 'Hospitality'! and in the course of one of my trips in 1987 I took a group from Gibraltar, where we were staying, on a day trip to Tangier so that they could experience the shortest intercontinental flight twice in the one day. On our return I requested, and was granted, the cockpit jump seat, as any landing into Gib's short runway with the wet stuff at each end is always interesting.
My last-ever Viscount trip was another Corporate Away-Day to Le Touquet from Birmingham in 1990. On our return leg I was seated in the row where you could see all four props (noisy but nice if you're a fan). On leaving the a/c I put my head in the cockpit and told them that in the descent the no. 2 prop hub had iced up - and my last memory of this wonderful a/c as I walked away to the terminal was of the skipper peering out of the open cockpit window at the F/O now down on the ramp with his hand on no. 2 spinner to check if it was heating up!
Great airplane - Great Memories of the dear departed days when airline flying was a pleasure, unlike the post 9-11, crass, "security" dominated, "race to the bottom" missmanaged mass-misery experience de nos jours.
'Night all.

[emeritus]

"The 800 cockpit was the first in Britain to attempt an ergonomic layout"

And what a dismal failure that was ! :(

Emeritus.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

They made amends with the Guardsvan - the flight deck was as big as a football pitch!

[scotbill]

And what a dismal failure that was ! http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/sowee.gif

Would you care to qualify that? Compared to what?
It might depend on what stage in the life of the Viscount (or your own) you experienced it. But in the 50s, it was a considerable advance over anything else available at the time.

[atb1943]

I'm in the no doubt enviable position of seeing this little darlin' (D-ANAF) every time I go in to 'verk' here and if you like original smells, then this one has them time-warped into the original seating! She's had her inboards removed (no doubt to prevent escape attempts...:E) but is still used for basic mechanic training (no longer cabin staff, they have their own sims across the road).

It was a British Eagle Viscount that brought me here in 1965 (G-ATDU), and a memorable trip to Berlin that December took FOUR of B.E.A.'s fleet to get there, due to two fog diversions at destination, first back to Frankfurt and the following day to Hannover (G-AOHI, W, L and M)! Of course we missed our planned meeting, and a phone call to East Berlin in those days could take forever, or they charged treble. It worked out in the end, but we were still able to enjoy 'Those Magnificent Men...' at the Zoo Palast (with Gerd Froebe the only actor who wasn't dubbed!).

Happy Cold War days....we were happy to come in from it......;)

cheers
ATB

http://www.english-for-flyaways.de/albums/userpics/10001/IMG_0230a.jpg

http://www.english-for-flyaways.de/albums/userpics/10001/IMG_0003a.jpg

[Capetonian]

Opssys thank you for posting that. Very poignant to me as I lived in Rhodesia when those two aircraft were shot down. It's unfortunate that the world considers them 'disasters' because they were acts of cowardly terrorism of the worst kind, not disasters.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

I first saw D-ANAF on 30th May 1962 on its way out of London Airport (I think they call it something else now!). Nice to know the old girl is still standing...

[atb1943]

This is a view out of one of those lovely large windows on my first trip to Frankfurt from LHR on 25 June 1965, aircraft was EG's G-ANRS.
Apologies for the poor quality, the print I scanned is as old as that memory!

http://www.english-for-flyaways.de/albums/userpics/10001/G-ANRS_25_June_1965.jpg

[emeritus]

By way of qualification...

the Viscount cockpit showed very little in the way of ergonomics.

Cramped,poor visibility,controls scattered and not grouped made for a high workload and the lighting was woeful.

It certainly was successful from a passenger point of view but the airconditioning was totally inadequate in warmer climates.

From a working enviornement (?) point of view the DC4/6 was far better.

Thats my view after 4 years on 720,747 and 816/832 types often all types in one duty period.

720...switches up for on. 747...switches down for on ! Go figure :ugh:

[boris]

Try switches towards the horizon for on (DC9). Worked ok for me. Perhaps you have underlined why current multi-type rating wasn`t such a good idea.

The Viscount had two distinct types of cockpit on both 700s and 800s. Whilst the "American" type on the 814 was a distinct improvement over the older type cockpit which still struggled through on the BEA 800s and even the 832 if I remember correctly, I have to agree with you generally and in particular about the aircon which was non-existent until after take off.

[Davidsoffice]

"That last shot was a magnificent picture, with a group of superb aircraft I remember well - and both the Viscount and the VC-10 in what I still think of as their 'proper' colours. When & where was it taken do you know?"

I haven't seen an answer to that so will opine that its Manchester Ringway and in the late 60s / early 70s.

[Ian Burgess-Barber]

I agree - Manchester Ringway - I believe that you can see Jodrell Bank Radio Telescope through the mist - centre skyline.

[Warmtoast]

The first Viscount I got up close to was at Heathrow in October 1953 at the start of the London to Christchurch (NZ) air race.

G-AMAV in BEA colours took part with race number 23 as seen here in my photo taken at the time.

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/thawes/NZAirRaceViscount2.jpg

[Level bust]

My first ever flight was in a Channel Airways Viscount (a 700 series I think) in about 1966, from Southend to Rotterdam. I was hooked on flying from then on.

The last one I went on was with London European from Luton to Amsterdam in 1985, it was a pleasure to look out those large windows again. What a wonderful sound those dart engines made.

[JW411]

I was lucky enough to be seconded to BEA in 1964 flying the Viscount 802/806 (my day job was flying Argosys). I remember it as being a pleasant aircraft to fly and, with roughly the same engines but having a MTOW of about 65% the weight of the Argosy, we thought it went like a bit of a greyhound.

If I remember rightly, the 802 engines were measured in JPT and the 806 in TGT. The toilets were also in a different place but apart from that, the two versions were very similar.

One thing that I remember was the layout of the centre pedestal. The four throttles were on the left and the four HP cocks were on the right. Behind them were four "fire channels" evenly spaced containing the LP cocks, the fire buttons and the feathering buttons (I think).

So it was that the No.3 fire channel was immediately behind the No.2 HP cock so it was quite easy when shutting down No.2 engine to shut down No.3engine at the same time! This I managed to do one day - fortunately in the simulator.

That particular arrangement was not very ergonomic!

[Midland 331]

Those windows. One BD stewardess shared with me that when she served the window seat across the row of three, she felt that she could easily fall out. The lovely Kim Lerner, who left us far too early.

I loved the way the whole airframe resonated with a deep groan when the first engine spooled up. It didn't happen with the others for some reason.

Growing up close to Castle Don., Viscounts were part of my everyday life. Then, studying at Leeds, I lived under the 32 centreline, and felt like saluting the BD418 every tea time.

We tend to think some transport machines will be around forever. However, I'm not so sure that we'll be as nostalgic about the 737-800.

Concerning ergonomics, there were at least two incidents during training related to engine failure drill, so I understand, both resulting in loss of the aircraft. I wonder if cockpit layout was a contributory factor?

[Helen49]

I'm probably being a bit lazy asking this question on here, but is anyone aware of any dvds featuring the viscount.....preferably UK operators?

[lotus1]

first time i flew on a viscount was a sports charter to holland on a euroair viscount fantastic noise huge windows but what made me laugh was the size of the seat belt what fantastic memorys.

[JW411]

A Viscount landed wheels up at Aldergrove one night by mistake on a training flight. Apparently it was the only aircraft on the fleet that didn't have an undercarriage horn.

Anyway, the trainee captain and his instructor got out OK and the story was that the first thing the trainee captain did was to call his wife and tell her not to spend any more money!

[Loki]

Can anyone explain (I've been wondering for years) the distinctive whine on the RT whenever a Viscount pilot (no jokes please) asked me for start clearance....this disappeared after start up.

[PFR]

Helen49, if your after a DVD with plenty of Viscount, including UK examples, you need to get your hands on "Vickers Props FAREWELL" produced by Airside with AVION.
PM if you can't find it on the web and I'll send you contact details - [I]don't want to upset the moderators in case its classed as advertising.
Hope that's helpful:)

and....
atb1943:D"Fantastic":ok:Remember it being their in 1994 when I was a Tech Rep for Airbus based at Frankfurt.
Any more pics?
Can't remember how functional from a systems perspective it was. Remember the Lufthansa apprentices working it in the hangar - also it being towed around, including towbarless tugs getting practice (which were a new and shiny idea then). If you have any influence over Lufthers please make sure it gets a good home when the time comes - it must surely be one of the most original, unmollested examples left - and if there was to be a flyer....well:8

[PFR]

Have to say if you want a good surf re Viscount past & present have a look here: Vickers Viscount Network - A Virtual Museum dedicated to the Vickers-Armstrongs VC2 Viscount (http://www.vickersviscount.net)
and the book of all books:
The Vickers Viscount by Rayner GC Kittle, publisher Air Britain.
(ISBN 978-0-85130-401-4)
PFR:ok:

[Chris Scott]

Thanks for the great photos. Like Capetonian and Opssys, I've mixed memories of the Viscount, which I only flew in as SLF. These date back to 1956, when the first of five CAA dash-748Ds (with slipper tanks) arrived at Salisbury. Considering the fatal main-spar failures that had grounded their Vikings, CAA may have had some misgivings about their second Vickers type. They soon became a regular sight and sound over our house, flying domestic and international schedules, including London.
In 1957, after the long flight SAY-LBG in a UAT DC6B, we completed the trip to LHR on a BEA 700-series: my first flight on a turbine-powered aeroplane.

An early tragedy involving the CAA-purchased Viscounts was the 1958 accident at Benina (Benghazi). VP-YNE was operating the "Zambesi" service from SAY to LHR, and hit a hill on a night-time, visual, straight-in approach to the north-westerly runway. There were some survivors, but we lost a family friend, who was returning to the UK to attend his father's funeral.

In the early 'Sixties, returning to school from the UK, I managed to include the trip from NBO to SAY via Mombasa and Dar-es-Salaam. Those massive windows on the 700-series – every one of which was an emergency exit I think – provided magnificent views of Kilimanjaro and the East-African coast.

My next flight in one, which could hardly have been a more different experience, was in 1970, when I was a copilot on Dart Heralds. Despite sharing similar engines, the Viscount was a hot ship compared with the Herald, and a lot prettier. Jack Jones (Channel Airways) had several 800s at Southend, and my crew had to position JER-SEN in one. Being a charter operator, Channel had fitted an astonishing number of seats, so leg-room was minimal. It was shortly after, I think, that one of them over-ran a very wet Rwy 06 at Southend, ending up on the railway line. For weeks after that, the wreckage remained in close view of departing aircraft approaching the Rwy 24 holding point.

In later years, on holiday from the UK, I took my wife to Vic Falls and Kariba on Viscounts, by which time they were in Air Rhodesia colours. A few years later, I awoke to hear Mr Nkomo laughing on the BBC Today programme when called to account for the actions of his ZIPRA forces in shooting one down (by SAM) on a scheduled flight from Kariba, and the massacre of survivors. Prior to "9/11", I cannot remember being as sickened by any atrocity involving aviation.

Chris

[Feathers McGraw]

Loki

I have no knowledge of the Viscount electrical system, but in general any regulator supplying something like the radio would regulate better when a generator rather than the battery is supplying the bus in question. So you might get a fair ripple voltage at the inverter frequency when running off battery, but as the regulator's input voltage increases when the generator is running the line regulation (output voltage change for a given input voltage change) improves enormously once the input is above the drop out voltage limit. I'm assuming here 28V DC on generators as opposed to 24V from the battery, or similar if running of different supplies.

Anyone who really knows can contradict me if I'm wrong, 1940s electronics is a bit before my time but the same general principles apply.

[Jamie-Southend]

Ian,

There will always be some great replies here on PPRuNe, a place frequented by Pilots, Enthusiasts, Crew, & Engineers, and if you want something just a little bit more, pop online and say hello to us lot at Vickers Viscount Network - A Virtual Museum dedicated to the Vickers-Armstrongs VC2 Viscount (http://www.vickersviscount.net)

Jamie

[Flightwatch]

I guess you were involved in what was in the days of the 1-11 euphemistically known as "the Spey Handling course", consisting of RAF crews doing a couple of base sessions a year and then coming out to Berlin to do a tour for route familiarisation - it was VC 10 crews in my day. We were very happy to know that in the event of a "dispute" with the eastern block the RAF would take over and we could retire to the Officers Club in Theodore Heuss Platz!

I too flew the Viscount for 3k hours in the mid 60s by which time the 806s had been given the Mk510 Dart, the same as the 802, thereafter being known as the 806x - ironically it was to provide the higher powered engines to the Argosys, these had the temperature in TGT and were the Mk520 which I came across in the HS748.

Ergonomics? Well, I don't think Vickers had heard of such a thing. I flew 7 different marks of Viscount both in the 700 and 800 series. The only thing common to them all was the position of the throttles and HP cocks. In some the switches were down for on, some up. In the 700D the fire switches were on the glareshield and the 800 as you describe. some had heated windscreens and some as the 800 a drip fed glycol windscreen deicer. The only good thing the BEA a/c had was a cockpit air conditioner mounted in the R/Os seat position during the summer which unfortunately wasn't included in the package when BEA handed them down to the company I was working for.

Whatever shortcomings the aircraft had it was still a magnificent plane to fly or travel in as a passenger.

[oldchina]

"Spey Handling Course"

Was that where they taught you to carry an iron bar in the cockpit in case you needed to get out and wallop the 1-11's CSDS starter?

[JW411]

Flightwatch:

In my time it was the Dart Handling Course.

[Helen49]

PFR

Grateful thanks for the information.

H49

[Al E. Vator]

VH-TVQ Vickers Viscount (http://www.aussieairliners.org/viscount/vh-tvq/0129.061.html)

[radioian]

Thanks to everyone for their kind replies on this superb old machine. I miss watching them climbing out...

[atb1943]

PFR,

sorry, I've only now read your June response - can't recall pprune sending an email as they have today, however....

no more pics at present, but she seemed today to have got some brighter red paint on the prop tips. I had to zip past her over to an A330 that was due out and on which I had a tiny job to do, and they kept us for 20 minutes at the Gate, due to today's inauguration of the new tower and all the VIPs etc. The LBA decided to pay the security company a visit, to check they were doing it all correctly, so today it was belts off, watches off, etc and cars really given the once-over (shades of Helmstedt border crossing....shudder:eek:). Back to normal tomorrer, I hope!
english-for-flyaways.de

[PaperTiger]

N7471 is potentially flyable but missing one working engine. Unfortunately the Viscount must sit outside so the elements take their toll on the paint. If we were able to obtain an engine it would fly again in short order.(Russ Strine, Mar. 16, 2009) MAAM Reading PA US.

Surely someone would be prepared to swap a good engine from a static example ?

[atb1943]

Perhaps they (whoever THEY are) would do a swap...:)

North West Air News - vickers viscount in belgium (http://derbosoft.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=overseas&action=display&thread=729)

rgds
Alan

[The AvgasDinosaur]

Given the amount of money Lufthansa are dedicating to buying and putting a Lockheed 1649 Starliner back in the air, and given the fact that they still own a Viscount I would keep my fingers tightly crossed.
Who knows what they have planned. Clearly an airline not ashamed of their heritage, they also fly a Junkers JU-52 if I'm not mistaken.
Be lucky
David

[atb1943]

Yes David, it's all here...Deutsche Lufthansa Berlin Stiftung (http://www.lufthansa-ju52.de/en/index.php)

brgds
Alan

[EastMids]

On December 23rd 2011, Lufthansa 737-530 D-ABJI was retired and ferried to Frankfurt to be used as a ground trainer to replace Viscount D-ANAF. Looking remarkably pristine and mostly complete in it's current Lufthansa colours with "Lufthansa Training" titles and only it's inboard props missing when I saw it on December 20th, the Viscount has been grounded at Frankfurt in the training role for over 40 years.

I wonder what the future holds for this Viscount now it's training role appears to be over? Maybe Lufthansa should be encouraged to ship it over to the USA for a session in the hangar in Auburn-Lewistown, MA once the Starliner is completed? ;-)

[atb1943]

I watched yesterday, Tuesday, as 'JI received its new 'LUFTHANSA TECHNIK' decals on the port side. I had permission from the shop manager to take photos but promised the PR manager not to publish them (...yet).

The training manager wouldn't be drawn into making a statement about the fate of the Viscount, but I can't see them keeping her for much longer...space for two trainers is just not available. The next edition of the in-house newsletter will doubtless address the issue!

brgds and Happy New Year to all!

Alan

[ATNotts]

It would be fantastic if LH Technik were to be able to restore D-ANAF, and of all the major airlines LH seems to have more of a sence of history and preservation than most - especially BA!

I fear however that 40 years grounded will probably result in 'AF being beyond even the skills of LH Technik - certainly to get the aircraft airworthy.

Are there any other Viscounts in any sort of state of repair that might enable them to be made airworthy?

[Fareastdriver]

If the history of the Vickers Valiant bomber is anything to go by it will need new wing spars.

[atb1943]

@ Fareastdriver

...not to mention a few Darts, plus propellers....! (at least one of the two missing props is in the workshop)...

I have to correct what I wrote about the decals on D-ABJI (I couldn't hang around long enough yesterday). She now sports LUFTHANSA TECHNICAL TRAINING on both sides, as noticed an hour ago in the pouring rain (and my 'memory' reveals 'TT' on the nosewheel doors...)

And for the anoraks among us, 747 ABVH has been divested of her '50 years Boeing/Lufthansa' decals, and 'BVA and 'BVB ceased revenue duties at the end of last year. Bit 'off-thread' - apols:O
brgds
Alan

[dixi188]

Viscount spar change was common place in the 1970's.

I was involved in one A/C during my apprenticeship at BAC Hurn. It took about 4 months to do the whole job but I believe people like BAF and Fields used to do the job in about 6-8 weeks.
Not sure if there are enough bods around with the skills to do it now though.

[avionic type]

We in BEA used to do twin lower spar changes plus a check 4 on the 700 series in 6 weeks in the late 50s we were lucky in the respect that the planning departments supplied us with the correct jigs and tools to do the job the 2 big tedious jobs were the removal of the main electrical panels under the floor in the center section to gain access to the bolts joining the center section and the wing spar and making the templates from the old spar and then drilling the holes in the in the blank new spar one slip and that was a few thousand quid down the drain but it never happened. Don't think any airline would tackle those type of tasks now it would go back to the manufacturer:hmm::hmm::hmm:

[JAVELINBOY]

Loads of Viscount stuff on here
Vickers Viscount Network - A Virtual Museum dedicated to the Vickers-Armstrongs VC2 Viscount (http://www.vickersviscount.net/)

[Jamie-Southend]

And all are welcome aboard. We are a knowledgeable and friendly bunch !


Jamie Popplewell
International Researcher for Vickers Viscount Network - A Virtual Museum dedicated to the Vickers-Armstrongs VC2 Viscount (http://www.vickersviscount.net)
A Virtual Museum dedicated the the Vickers Armstrongs VC2 - Viscount
[email protected]

[PA22]

The first aircraft I spoke to as a ATCO cadet was a viscount from Boscombe Down callsign Evergreen nn? coming into Stansted to pick up someone sat in the tower. The filight reported passing the outer marker and I looked out the window to spot the aircraft, but could not see it. For a while nor could anyone else. Eventually it was sighted. I asked for his height and it was about 2500 feet at a point wher he should have been at 1000. I looked at my mentor who tttold me to clear the aircraft to land or overshoot at his discretion. This was done and we waited. The roof of the aircraft was clear to us as nosedown it dived for the runway and disappeared into the dip and never returned. "Where are you" I queried. "Err, I think we've burst all tyres" Mentor and I reached the crash button at the same time. The passenger asked for the phone and ordered up another flight to take him to Boscombe.

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

I only flew in a Viscount once; BAF, Man to Guernsey, 1986. I proffered my PPL and asked for the jump seat. "We don't have one, but you can stand behind the co-pilot". As we lined up on 06 'the boss' turned in his seat and fixed me with a beady eye.. "if anything goes wrong, you weren't here, right?".

I remember the aeroplane being very smooth and quiet (I did sample the cabin for a while). In fact the exterior and the cabin were like a new aeroplane. The flight deck, however, was like a decommissioned WW2 bomber. Ancient panels, empty racks with disconnected cables, hand painted surfaces; the aeroplane here looked about 100 years old and VERY well used!

We returned from that holiday in an F27 (which did have a jumpseat for me, take off to landing). Half the number of Darts, seven times the noise and vibration!

A Viscount landed wheels up at Aldergrove one night by mistake on a training flight. Apparently it was the only aircraft on the fleet that didn't have an undercarriage horn.


A friend (retired BA captain) tells me of a 1-11 that did that at Teesside. Training flight, flapless approach, no pax, flown at full fuel to get the weight up to realistic service levels. At that weight the flapless approach speed was above the range of the U/C warning system; 2 training captains and a trainee all forgot the gear. But the 1-11 was a tough ship; they jacked it up, lowered the gear, and flew it home to EGCC for the bent underside panels to be beaten out!

[Flightwatch]

I can confirm the Teesside incident, the aircraft was out of service for less than 2 weeks! We always said that the 1-11 was hewn from the solid. The u/c warning horn went of at 180kts which was below the flapless approach speed.

IIRC the aircraft concerned was G-AVMO the example at East Fortune, so it has lasted longer than most.

[pppdrive]

Flew on them 1967 Basle-Southend-Perpignan, Channel Airways G-APPC
and 1980 Tel Aviv-Eilat-Tel Aviv, Arkia 4X-AVE
That's when flying was fun

[Discorde]

They made amends with the Guardsvan - the flight deck was as big as a football pitch!

So wide that the Capt & F/O had individual sets of throttles. Did 5 years on the Vibrator - mostly at night. Least favourite trip: 0200 LHR-CPH-LHR.

For Kindle readers, here's a cracking fictional story featuring the world's last remaining airworthy Merch:

The Damocles Plot


In real life the last flying Merch ('EP) was flown into the Brooklands in 1996 and is now a static display at the Museum. Occasionally they fire up engines 3 & 4. Ah . . . the noise! . . . the vibration!

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

I'm reading George Edwards' biography. I didn't realise what a battle Edwards had to get the Dart (which back then was not meeting it spec by some margin, but showed great promise) instead of the Mamba accepted for the VC2. Mutt Summers and Jock Bryce (who I had the pleasure of meeting at a reunion at G-BOAC at EGCC a while back) made the maiden flight off the grass at Wisely!

[vc10617]

heres the merch landing at brooklands,watch it thru' its worth it!

Vickers Vanguard lands at Brooklands -- The incredible story - YouTube

[kala87]

I made my first ever flight in KLM Viscount PH-VIF from LHR to AMS on September 30 1958. We left from the north side of "London Airport" as it was in those days. A full English Breakfast was served on the flight and we had great views of the English countryside through the huge windows as we climbed out at a stately pace. Cruising height was FL150. We were each given a "Captain's Log" of the flight with details such as the aircraft name (Leonardo da Vinci) and Captain's name. Thorough people, the Dutch.

During the next few years I enjoyed several other Viscount flights out to East Africa and back, by Sudan Airways and Airwork. The Viscount was used for long-haul as well in those days, especially by charter operators, although of course it had to make a refuelling stop every 1000nm or so. It was a very comfortable and quiet aircraft to fly in, without the teeth-rattling vibration of the big piston airliners of the day. With only about 60 pax on a typical flight and those huge picture windows, every flight was a pleasure.

[atb1943]

Quick update on events in Frankfurt. On Monday Jan 9, the first complement of wannabee technicians were let loose on the 737, parked at the time on the LH apron opposite Hangar 6. The Viscount was towed about the place, and eventually ended up in the hangar for a while.

Yesterday, the 737 was parked on the west apron in the dedicated Tech Training bay, the Viscount, looking quite forlorn, behind the wall opposite Hangar 6, inbetween two A340s. Is she being readied for collection I wonder:hmm:

I notice too, that the 737 also carries a rather ugly LHTLTT on the rear fuselage, about where the reg (and flag) used to be.

brgds
Alan

[thrubwell]

used to fly IOM to LPL regularly on their viscounts, and subsequently on Manx.
enjoyed all my flights, short flights but always better than the alternative a 4 hour bumpy sea crossing

[atb1943]

Here's one I just unearthed of 'OYH at Aberdeen in September 1981. IIRC I was about to clamber into Bond's then newest S-76 (BMAL) for a trip up the coast to a rig in the Firth of Forth - Bidford Dolphin I believe it was.

Not one of my favourite colour schemes...:(

http://www.english-for-flyaways.de/albums/userpics/10001/Vickers_Viscount_G-AOYH2C_Aberdeen_1981.jpg

She was re-registered G-BNAA on return from a stint in Canada and saw service with Euroair and British Air Ferries.

[Croqueteer]

:confused:Just come back from hols in Tenerife where I found G-AOYO in a contractors yard in Tenerife North airport. She is basically intact but looking very sad. I took six pics, but have accidentally erased four! I need advice on how to publish these on line, I have tried FAQs and can't make sense of them. I flew YO ( nickname YoYo) many times mainly flying oil workers to and from Sumburgh. She was named "Viscount Montgomery" by BAF.

[DH106]

Hi Croqueteer

We'd love to see and publish your 2 remaining photos of EC-DXU ex.G-AOYO here:-

Vickers Viscount Network - A Virtual Museum dedicated to the Vickers-Armstrongs VC2 Viscount (http://www.vickersviscount.net/Default.aspx)

Click on the contact us link :-)

[Lovetheviscount]

Sadly Bert passed away a few years ago but still missed by those who knew him.A true gentleman.
My dad Dennis Brewer and Bert Orris were great friends and always lived near us. His wife Margaret was also a lovely lady. Their daughter Vivian also became a pilot if I'm not mistaken - anyone know? We always referred to each other as cousins. It would be fantastic to get in touch with her again if anyone can assist please.
Kind regards, Christopher Brewer-Grant

[chevvron]

Although I'd watched Viscounts passing overhead Buckinghamshire on their way to/from Heathrow, my first close look was when my parents took us to 'London Airport' on a Greenline excursion one day in about 1956.
We sat on the viewing terrace watching an apparently endless stream of Viscounts arriving on 28R; as one touched down, another would be seen on short final. This seemed to go on for hours.
Next time I saw one close up was when I started my ATCO Cadet course at Hurn in late 1971; we were in a classroom which faced away from the airfield in either late '71 or early '72 when we heard a loud noise outside followed by a crash alarm. It wasn't until we went to drive home that evening that we saw the cause; a Condor airlines Viscount (with crudely painted out LH markings) had carried out an extremely short landing on runway 08 by touching down before the beginning of the runway and depositing its undercarriage at the start of the paved surface.

[DaveReidUK]

Although I'd watched Viscounts passing overhead Buckinghamshire on their way to/from Heathrow, my first close look was when my parents took us to 'London Airport' on a Greenline excursion one day in about 1956.
We sat on the viewing terrace watching an apparently endless stream of Viscounts arriving on 28R; as one touched down, another would be seen on short final. This seemed to go on for hours.
Next time I saw one close up was when I started my ATCO Cadet course at Hurn in late 1971; we were in a classroom which faced away from the airfield in either late '71 or early '72 when we heard a loud noise outside followed by a crash alarm. It wasn't until we went to drive home that evening that we saw the cause; a Condor airlines Viscount (with crudely painted out LH markings) had carried out an extremely short landing on runway 06 by touching down before the beginning of the runway and depositing its undercarriage at the start of the paved surface.

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/511x339/d_anef_853a8502fe829d4a01ce2c57e4e11da48bc27f6f.jpg

Aviation photographs of Registration: D-ANEF : ABPic (https://abpic.co.uk/pictures/registration/D-ANEF)

[old,not bold]

My (divorced) father took me, a 12 year-old, on a holiday to Ireland in 1954; we flew in an Aer Lingus Viscount. It was my first flight of any kind, and he had to stop me from sprinting across the apron to board. The sights and sounds of that flight have stayed fresh in my memory ever since.

For Dad, an ex-RAF pilot, it must have been a very strange experience; he said nothing at the time. It was the first time he had been airborne (apart from a DC3 repatriation flight from Germany) since October 1943 when his Lancaster III exploded at 6000 ft after a night-fighter attack over Southern Germany, which took him to Stalag Luft III.

My lifelong love of flying and all things aviation stems from that magical flight.

[chevvron]

My first flight in a Viscount was later in 1972. In September I passed my operational training at Glasgow at about 4 pm on the monday and was handed an Air Travel Warrant and told to report to the ATCO Manager at Sumburgh that wednesday.
When I boarded, I was 'asked to report to the flight deck' where I found there were only 2 seats ie no jump seat. The captain told me to stand behind his seat for every takeoff and landing, the flight being multi sector Glasgow - Inverness - Wick - Kirkwall - Sumburgh.
After departing Wick, we stayed at about 1000ft amsl until we approached the ring of islands forming Scapa Flow, where we descended to 'XXXft' (I'm not telling) for a superb view of the sunken ships in the anchorage.
We landed on the 'short' runway at Sumburgh, about 900m (now extended to 1500m), and as we did a 180 at the end of the runway, I looked down to see seals in the water below us looking up at us.
There was an 'offset' approach to runway 33 at Sumburgh with a line of sodium lights as a 'lead in' to indicate to the crew the correct path to follow to avoiding the high ground forming Sumburgh Head.

[dixi188]

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/511x339/d_anef_853a8502fe829d4a01ce2c57e4e11da48bc27f6f.jpg

Aviation photographs of Registration: D-ANEF : ABPic (https://abpic.co.uk/pictures/registration/D-ANEF)
28 Jan 1972. Same day that the VC-10 crashed at Gatwick. Very gusty southerly winds.
I saw the Viscount disappear behind Airwork's buildings from my viewpoint, and not re-appear, then saw the smoke rising. The BAC fire crew were first on the scene with Derek Saunders going into the aircraft to get the 2 pilots out, both uninjured.
One pair of mainwheels, complete with axle and brake units, bounced and landed in the field on the other side of the road.

[Flugzeug A]

I was sent to ( private but not posh ! ) school near Leeds-Bradford & ‘Lived’ at the airport most weekends in ‘73 / ‘74.
Northeast had a maintenance hanger & after a while of us asking to look at the aircraft , the techies were used to us and we were allowed in and onto the Viscounts.
Leeds - Bradford had a lot of Viscounts back then & we also knew that if Leeds United were playing away somewhere distant , we could look forward to a visit from one in Alidair markings.
I have been in lots of viscounts but never flew in one , sadly.
I DID used to fly home to Glasgow in a Dart powered HS-748 tho’.

[Mooncrest]

I was sent to ( private but not posh ! ) school near Leeds-Bradford & ‘Lived’ at the airport most weekends in ‘73 / ‘74.
Northeast had a maintenance hanger & after a while of us asking to look at the aircraft , the techies were used to us and we were allowed in and onto the Viscounts.
Leeds - Bradford had a lot of Viscounts back then & we also knew that if Leeds United were playing away somewhere distant , we could look forward to a visit from one in Alidair markings.
I have been in lots of viscounts but never flew in one , sadly.
I DID used to fly home to Glasgow in a Dart powered HS-748 tho’.
I think BKS/Northeast/BA based up to three Viscount 806s at Leeds Bradford at their operating peak. Maybe just two by the mid to late 1970s as Air Anglia and Dan Air assumed some ex-BA routes. Aircraft based at Newcastle and Heathrow would also pass through on 'W' patterns.

[Airbanda]

I was sent to ( private but not posh ! ) school near Leeds-Bradford & ‘Lived’ at the airport most weekends in ‘73 / ‘74.
Northeast had a maintenance hanger & after a while of us asking to look at the aircraft , the techies were used to us and we were allowed in and onto the Viscounts.
Leeds - Bradford had a lot of Viscounts back then & we also knew that if Leeds United were playing away somewhere distant , we could look forward to a visit from one in Alidair markings.
I have been in lots of viscounts but never flew in one , sadly.
I DID used to fly home to Glasgow in a Dart powered HS-748 tho’.

Was the school Woodhouse Grove?

We must have been LBA regulars in the same period of time. I was up there weekends and school hols from August 74 until I left the area on starting work in the Civil Service in 1978.