Seeking information on Captain C. N. Pelly - my grandfather

[mandyW]

Apologies if this is not the correct place to post but I am researching the life of my grandfather - Captain C. Nigel Pelly.

He was born in 1908 and worked for Hillman/Imperial Airways/BOAC/British Airways flying Lockheed Electras,Canadair, Mosquitos, Argonauts and Britannias up until he retired around 1964.

His pilot training was done with 502 Ulster Squadron Special Reserve at Aldergrove.

He was also based in Egypt as part of 216 Squadron during WWII and was involved in the Berlin Airlift.

He flew Neville Chamberlain to meet Hitler in 1938 for the Peace in our Time talks.

I'd be very interested if anyone has any more information about him or even flew with him.

Many thanks

Mandy

[Planemike]

Mandy............

Firstly, welcome to the forum. I really hope that you receive some good replies. In my experience, many helpful people around.

Your grandfather sounds to have had an interesting career, progressing from Hillmans A/Ws to flying Britannias. In my view he was around at the most interesting of times in aviation.

Do you have his log books?

Planemike

[WHBM]

Mandy W :

A few comments on your notes because that is the sort of thing we do here. And no, we're not all geeks !

What a fascinating career your grandfather had by the way. Do you know where he learned to fly ?

Hillman Airways was a very early independent airline in the mould of Freddie Laker and Richard Branson. They operated from Stapleford Airfield, near Chigwell in East London, to the Continent and UK holiday resorts. They principally ran De Havilland Dragons and Dragon Rapides (also known as DH84 and DH89) so those types would be expected in his log book as well. Hillman operated from 1931 to 1935

The progression of the early airlines was that Hillmans were absorbed by British Airways (a 1930s company nothing really to do with the current major airline of the same name), and they operated from Heston Airport (on the site of the current Heston Services on the M4) to various north European points. BA were in turn merged with Imperial Airways at the end of 1939 to form BOAC, although by then the war had started and any remainin civil airline operation was mixed up with the RAF.

If he had a career going from Hillmans to BA to BOAC, that would be straightforward. If he was with Imperial he must have left his job to join them. None of the aircraft types you describe were operated by Imperial.

The aircraft used by Chamberlain to go to Germany was Lockheed Electra G-AEPR, which features in the background of the well-known photograph of Chamberlain returning (which is taken at Heston and not, contrary to common belief, at Croydon). I take it you have checked this photograph of Chamberlain at Heston (eg http://www.ssplprints.com/zoom.php?height=428&image=100769 ) to see if he is one of those in aircrew-type hats at the back, against the aircraft.

The Canadair and the Argonaut are the same aircraft type, the Canadair C-4 Argonaut. BOAC operated these from 1949 to 1960. The Bristol Britannia came along slowly in the late 1950s and didn't last so long with BOAC, the last went in 1965. I would guess your grandfather's retirement coincided with the withdrawl of this type, if he was near to completing his career it would not be worthwhile to train him on jets.

I wonder what he flew on the Berlin Airlift as none of the types you list were involved.

[A30yoyo]

Hallo...Chamberlain made 3 flights to Germany, the first to Munich to meet Hitler at Berchtesgaden in L.10 G-AEPR, the second to Cologne to meet Hitler at Bad Godesberg in the brand-new L14 G-AFGN and the third to Munich for the multinational Peace Conference in G-AFGN again. A back-up aircraft was flown on all these trips
I've summarized what video and still material I could find on the net about Chamberlain's flights in post #64 (4 down) on this link Great Scoops From Flickr And LIFE Archive - Page 3 - Key Publishing Ltd Aviation Forums (http://forum.keypublishing.com/showthread.php?t=102230&page=3)

my favourite stills are from the second trip (to Cologne for Bad Godesburg) which show the crew well
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/76/Bundesarchiv_Bild_183-H12701,_K%C3%B6ln,_Vorbereitung_M%C3%BCnchener_Abkommen.jpg
and
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9b/Bundesarchiv_Bild_183-H12784,_Godesberg,_Vorbereitung_M%C3%BCnchener_Abkommen.jpg

I don't know if your Grandfather was on that trip... I suspect the smaller pilot? in the centre of the latter pic is Reinhold Caspareuthus, a South African...hope these are of interest

[WHBM]

Hallo...Chamberlain made 3 flights to Germany, ..... I don't know if your Grandfather was on that trip...
According to Wikipedia C. N. Pelly was the commander of all three flights (so must have been current on the Lockheed L.14 as well as the L.10A Electra).

British Airways Ltd. - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Airways_Ltd).

However this Wikipedia page also says that the final aircraft used was L.14 G-AFGN, whereas the photo I linked earlier of Chamberlain's return clearly shows G-AEPR - unless it was a backdrop but not the aircraft he had just arrived on.

[A30yoyo]

There's much confusion about Chamberlain's trips but I think the Wikipedia account is accurate. I sent Critical Past some corrections to their captions but haven't checked the current accuracy.
I've just found this online book' From Fishing to Flying' by a BA Ltd Radio operator from that period which mentions Captain Pelly
Fishing to Flying: Chapter 14 (http://www.rsne.com.au/af/chapter14.htm)

[Planemike]

Just a little bit more about Ted Hillman. He started operations in 1932 flying from Romford to Clacton using two deH 80 Puss Moths and 2 deH 83 Fox Moths. He died on 31 Dec 1934. By this time control of the airline had passed to Whitehall Securities who formed British Airways on 01 Oct 1935 merging Spartan Airlines and United Airlines with Hillmans to form BA (the first).

It was with his encouagement that deH went ahead and built the deH 84 Dragon. He wanted an aircraft with more capacity than the Fox Moth.

Planemike

[DeepestSouth]

MandyW

Sharp and Bowyer's book 'Mosquito' has a photo of Capt CN (Nigel) Pelly (photo 117) at Leuchars and the full caption(Page 387) records that he was flight captain from September 1943 onwards. The copyright of the photo rests (or rested when the book was written) with DeHavilland. He is mentioned on Page 331 as possibly flying Marshal Timoshenko and having to fly with the bomb doors half open. He's also mentioned on Page 337 in the crew lists.

If you can't get hold of a copy of the book, PM me.

[mandyW]

Thank you so much to everyone who has replied, I really appreciate it especially the wonderful newsreel and photo links. I have asked my father to check these to see if he can recognise my grandfather however we're pretty sure that Captain Pelly would have been inside the aircraft when Chamberlain was entering/leaving so is not visible. In fact in one newsreel you can see someone in the cockpit whilst Chamberlain is talking. We are also unsure whether he flew on all 3 flights but know for sure he was on the first one. Logs from this period would be very useful.

To answer your questions..

@Planemike - we have logbooks from his RAF days but not from BOAC sadly

@WHBM - Nigel learnt to fly in the RAF (Ulster 502 squadron which later became the Coastal Command) aged 17.
I was incorrect saying he worked for Imperial, we believe it was the companies I listed and also BEA.
I checked again with my dad and it seems Capt Pelly was actually the Directory of Operations at BOAC during the Berlin Airlift so we believe he was more involved in the organisation than flying.
He had to retire due to ill health in 1964 and died sadly in 1966.

@A30yoyo - thank you for the link to Allen Finch's book "Fishing to Flying" - I had already seen a reference in Chapter 16 but missed the one in Chapter 14 which was fantastic to read! I have made contact with Allen's son & wife and although he is no longer alive, his son has sent me copies of log book entries which show him & my grandfather flying together on numerous occasions.

@DeepestSouth - thank you for this reference, I have PM'd you to ask if this is the same photo as in Ian Thirsk's de Havilland Mosquito book (p. 373)

Once again to everyone who has responded, thank you! I will also send any further information I find out to this thread.

[A30yoyo]

This is a BOAC Mosquito being boarded by a crew but I don't think Captain Pelly is one of them
LIFE: War 1939-1945 Wwii Air United Kingdom - Hosted by Google (http://images.google.com/hosted/life/f?q=Air+WWII+source:life&prev=/search%3Fq%3DAir%2BWWII%2Bsource:life%26hl%3Den%26biw%3D1174 %26bih%3D508%26tbm%3Disch&imgurl=1fe211757e735ba2)

One may be Ron Ashley mentioned in Stephen Greensted's photos
Ron and crew at RAF Leuchars,1943 | Flickr - Photo Sharing! (http://www.flickr.com/photos/7691137@N06/3749134003/in/photostream/)

Correction, according to the IWM from whom a copy of the BOAC Mosquito photo may be purchased, the passenger on the right is congratulating Captain Wilkins(on the ladder?) and his navigator for a safe flight

[Planemike]

Mandy..........

@Planemike - we have logbooks from his RAF days but not from BOAC sadly

What a shame you do not have his pre-war log books. They would have been fascinating reading.

In your original post you mention British Airways, guess that will be BA, the first, i.e. he transferred there from Hillmans

Planemike

[renfrew]

"Seven Skies" by John Pudney has a couple of mentions.It recalls his Berlin airlift uniform as being a boiler suit as they carried cargoes such as coal and flour. That would have been on Dakotas.
"Merchant Airmen" has him flying BOAC Lodestars from Cairo into the Western Desert in support of the army.
"Mosquito"says Captain Pelly returned from North Africa to Leuchars in September 1943.

[mandyW]

Thank you very much renfrew for the book references, I've seen the Seven Skies one but hadn't see the "Merchant Airmen"reference - I've just ordered a copy! I believe the reference in "Mosquito" is the same as in Ian Thirsk's de Havilland Mosquito book (p. 373)?

Thanks to links given on this site I have just got off the phone to the grandson of Ron Ashley whose logs show he flew with my grandfather at Leuchars - what a small world!

[WHBM]

I've been checking out my Propliner collection. Mandy, this is a well-known (to us lot) and longstanding, very professional (but done by amateur enthusiasts) quarterly magazine about old propeller aircraft.

Capt. Pelly seems to have spent more time on the Canadair Argonaut than anything else, and I recalled a long article about the BOAC fleet from a while ago. Propliner 78 (Spring 1999) and 80 (Autumn 1999) contain this, in two parts. There is just one mention of Pelly by name, saying from June 14 to July 8 1949 he, along with three other captains, was on the pioneer BOAC Argonaut proving flight from Heathrow to the Far East. He must have been one of the key crew to get on such a trip. You may like to see the lengthy article, notwithstanding that it is mostly about aircraft and mechanical issues of course, because it describes in detail what must have been a major part of his life.

Here's a question from something in the article. Did he ever suffer from hearing problems ? Apparently it was common among longserving Argonaut crews in later life due to the sheer noise of the engine exhausts on that aircraft.

Against our normal policy here I'm going to sneak in a link to a place (who is also the magazine publisher), because both 78 and 80 appear to be still available. Telephone them at the number shown on their home page, you will normally speak with forever-helpful Janet, and you can have them in the post.

Propliner Current (http://www.tahs.com/Propback.html)

I'll go through the Britannia articles in the magazine sometime as well, but that is a longer task as it was very extensively covered over time.

[mandyW]

@WHBM - wow, thank you I will definitely call & try & get copies of these editions, really appreciate you taking the time to research. I had read a small article about the proving flight at hong kong | scottish aviation | canadair | 1949 | 1274 | Flight Archive (http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1949/1949%20-%201274.html) which had a photo of him & the crew but it would be great to read more detail. FYI my grandfather flew Britannias from 1956-1963 on routes from London to Johannesburg and then to Australia and the Far East.

My father doesn't remember Captain Pelly having any hearing problems.

@A30yoyo - I think link http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9b/Bundesarchiv_Bild_183-H12784,_Godesberg,_Vorbereitung_M%C3%BCnchener_Abkommen.jpg may well have my grandfather in the middle. My dad was pretty certain but he did say it was unlike his father to have his hat askew! You mention the in man the centre of this picture is Reinhold Caspareuthus, do you know why he was there with Chamberlain?

Finally for today, my father has mentioned a few more pieces of trivia..

- My grandfather was given a blunt reminder that the flight manifest for Neville Chamberlain's first flight should include 2 bottles of single malt to which the prime minister was known to be partial!
- He logged over 4 million airmiles
- Captain Pelly flew the first British mail service to Malmo in 1936.
- As well as the planes I mentioned he also flew Air Speed Ferries (a three-engined type), Avro 10, Dragon Rapide and later the Rapide.
- My father believes that Captain Pelly flew prime ministers Ramsey Macdonald (193x?) and Clement Attlee (on his far east tour 1947/8?) as well as Churchill prewar, before he became prime minister. I haven't been able to substantiate these claims.

[Albert Driver]

If you go to britishairways.com you will find a contact number for the BA Heritage Centre. They hold a lot of information on BOAC crew members.
Nigel Pelly was quite a high-profile figure.
Also the Croydon Airport Visitors Centre may be linked to a project collecting biographical details of Imperial Airways pilots. Try them also.

[A30yoyo]

MandyW....I based my guess on this page....I thought the middle guy at Koln looked like Caspareuthus (assuming the Southampton pilot is him!)
Imperial Airways captain poses beside his boat - PortCities Southampton (http://www.plimsoll.org/resources/SCCMuseums/10028.asp)

[Warmtoast]

MandyW

Given your granfather's high profile in piloting VIPs I wonder whether whilst on Britannia’s he was involved in similar VIP flights?

I was stationed with the RAF in Ceylon (Sri Lanka) in 1957 and was present when the Duke of Gloucester (the Queen's uncle) passed through RAF Negombo (Katunayake) in August 1957 on his way to Malaya where he represented the Queen at the Malaya Independence celebrations. These took place in Kuala Lumpur on 31 August 1957. His BOAC Britannia G-ANBG made a short refuelling stop at Negombo that warranted a local welcoming party of official "meeters and greeters" supported by a display of flags and bunting as seen in my photo here.

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/thawes/RAF%20Negombo%20Katunayake/Kat-BOACBritG-ANBGwithDukeofGloucester-Aug1957Large.jpg

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/thawes/RAF%20Negombo%20Katunayake/Kat-Aug1957-DukeofGloucester.jpg

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/thawes/RAF%20Negombo%20Katunayake/Kat-Aug1957-DukeofGloucester2Large.jpg

The two black and white photos above were scrounged from the R.A.F. Negombo photographic section whose official photographer photographed the event for posterity. I think the young man with his back to the cameraman is the Duke of Gloucester’s son Prince William of Gloucester (he would have been about 15 or 16 at the time). Prince William died in a plane crash at Halfpenny Green in August 1972.

Anyway passed on for information.

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/thawes/RAF%20Negombo%20Katunayake/Kat-BOACBritG-ANBO-1957Large.jpg


PS. Photo of BOAC Brit G-ANBO photographed at Negombo in 1957, just in case your grandfather flew in this whilst on the BOAC Britannia Far-East run.

[Planemike]

Warmtoast.............

Thank you for the two wonderful photos of that wonderful aircraft....the Britannia !!!

G-ANBG was of course re-registered G-APLL. The reason?? Its original registration caused some embarassment !! No B****y Good.........!! Pointed out on a few occasions when the a/c went "tech" !!!

Planemike

[dash7fan]

Hallo MandyW!

There is a wonderful book of the Argonaut (North Star):

"The Canadair North Star" by Larry Milberry, CANAV Books,
ISBN 0-9690703-1-4.

On page 40 is the schedule of the route proving flight from Jun 14 to July 8.
Crew Capts. Farnworth, Cane, Pelly and Haddon. Also Al Lilly from Canadair. Aircraft G ALHD

On page 41 a foto of capts. Cane and Pelly in the cockpit

On page 114 is a little story about Capt. Pelly.

Best regards

[A30yoyo]

dash7fan ....does the Canadair book photo of Capt Pelly look like either of the white-capped crew of Chamberlain's Koln visit in these?
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/76/Bundesarchiv_Bild_183-H12701,_K%C3%B6ln,_Vorbereitung_M%C3%BCnchener_Abkommen.jpg
and
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9b/Bundesarchiv_Bild_183-H12784,_Godesberg,_Vorbereitung_M%C3%BCnchener_Abkommen.jpg

[dash7fan]

A30yoyo,

in my opinion Mr. Pelly looks similar to the guy between Herr Ribbentropp and Mr. Chamberlain.

Its a small part of a BOAC foto:
http://www11.file-upload.net/31.05.11/81jhljz5zgl.jpg

[mandyW]

@Albert Driver - thank you for the reference, I actually work for British Airways (computers not flying!) and have viewed Captain Pelly's personnel records there. I will try & scan them in as they make interesting reading - medical history / leave / awards / promotions / planes flown etc. I didn't know about the Croydon Airport Visitors' Centre - I will get in contact with them.

@Warmtoast - thank you for those wonderful pictures, so nice to see what the Britannia actually looked like. I'm sorry but I don't know if my grandfather flew on this flight - I am going to try & search for his log books in my parents loft when I am down over the summer, fingers crossed!

@dash7fan - thank you for so much the reference, how fantastic there is a picture - I've ordered this book too (my Amazon bill is growing by the minute!!).

@A30yoyo - I think your 2nd photo has my grandfather in the middle (not 100% sure but it does look very similar as his ears stuck out slightly). I looked at the picture of Caspareuthus and his nose looked too big to be the pilot in the pciture - my guess anyway!

[mandyW]

@dash7fan - what reference is the small BOAC photo from?

Thanks

[dash7fan]

Hallo MandyW!

The picture is a scan from the mentioned book. (Foto BOAC via Peter Cane)

rgds
Dash7fan

[WHBM]

...the guy between Herr Ribbentropp and Mr. Chamberlain...
What an unfortunate position. To paste from Wikipedia (for brevity) :

"Ribbentrop loathed Neville Chamberlain, and viewed his appeasement policy as some sort of British scheme to block Germany from her rightful place in the world. Chamberlain for his part after meeting Ribbentrop in February 1938 wrote in a letter to his sister that 'Ribbentrop is so stupid, so shallow, so self-centred and so self-satisfied, so totally devoid of intellectual capacity, that he never seems to take in what is said to him' ".

Poor old Capt. Pelly stuck between these two. No wonder he looks worried !

[Planemike]

Mandy..........


- As well as the planes I mentioned he also flew Air Speed Ferries (a three-engined type), Avro 10, Dragon Rapide and later the Rapide.



Sorry, touch of nit picking coming up !!! Dragon Rapide and Rapide are one and the same. The de Havilland 89 was originallly referred to as the Dragon Six. The name was changed to Dragon Rapide, this was shortened to Rapide, also "Drag Rap" (slang !!). (First flight 17 April 1934)

The Dragon Rapide was a development of the de Havilland 84 Dragon. (First flight 24 November 1932)

Your grandfather will certainly have flown both. Hillmans operated both types.

Apologies for nit picking.........!!!

Planemike

[WHBM]

I wonder who the Airspeed Ferry flying was for. There were only a handful of these built, in 1932-33, and none operated by the companies mentioned before. It was really a joy-riding machine rather than a serious airliner, even for its day.

My guess would be that he was building early flying hours with Alan Cobham's Flying Circus, before his Hillman time. Cobham, who had inaugurated the design, was well known nationally, and had two of the type. They did extensive weekend summer flying out of farm fields around the country with Tiger Moths etc, and the Ferry, which they managed to get 10 passenger seats into, enabled a much higher number of passengers to be taken. My father took his first flight at one such event.

[mandyW]

@Planemike - Thanks for clarifying! Please continue to do so, I am new to all this but my reading list is growing by the day!

@WHBM - After his early RAF days, Pelly went to Midland Scottish Air Ferries from Sept 1933 to October 1935, this was then amalgamated with Hillmans. Hope that explains the connection, no flying circuses!

An interesting link on Midland Scottish Air Ferries here - Come Fly With Me (http://www.scribd.com/doc/6387359/Come-Fly-With-Me). Guess my grandfather was the "other RAF pilot" it refers to.

[Planemike]

Like you WHBM I was a bit puzzled by the Airspeed Ferry (of which only four were built). However there may be a connection to Hillmans:-

Quote from AJJ's BCA Vol 1. ""In 1933 a second and final pair of these aeroplanes, G-ACBT and 'FB, had been acquired by John Sword, a bus operator of wide experience and managing director of Midland and Scottish Air Ferries Ltd. The two white Ferries, with their smart red trimmings, flew for two seasons on the company'e services from Renfrew to Cambelltown, to Belfast and Speke. Here, by mutual arrangement, they connected with Hillman's Dragons, thus giving a through trunk service to the South of England. In the face of increasing competition, the firm closed down at the end of 1934 and the Ferries were put up for sale. ""

So a connection to Hillmans and in those days the loan of a pilot or indeed aircraft would not have been too surprising, particularly as they appear to have been collaborating. Think that could explain Captain Pelly having a few hours in an AS Ferry in his log book.

Would also guess the Ferry would have been of interest to Hillman, a man who was interested in flying as many people as possible for the lowest cost.

Planemike

[mandyW]

@Planemike - you are spot on, he did work for Midland Scottish Air Ferries from Sept 1933 to October 1935.

[A30yoyo]

mandyW...you may have picked up on flickr my note that Capt Pelly flew the repaired Mosquito G-AGFV back to the UK Dec43...Gibby Rae had belly landed it at Barkaby some months earlier (source 'Blockade Runners')

[mandyW]

Yes thanks A30yoyo!

[one11]

@Planemike - you are spot on, he did work for Midland Scottish Air Ferries from Sept 1933 to October 1935.

"Sword in the Sky" The history of Midland & Scottish and its founder John Sword by Peter V Clegg 1990 (No ISBN number) has several references to Capt Pelly including a short biography, a photo credited to Mrs Nigel Pelly and a copy of a Daily Safety Certificate for Ferry G-ACFB signed by Nigel Perry on 19 April 1934.

His join date at M&S AF is quoted as 1/3/1934 at Hooton Park, Cheshire, after leaving the RAF, and was still with them on closure in July when he joined Hillmans. His earlier career as given as RAF 502 reserve squadron in Ulster on leaving school in 1927 then 216 squadron in North Africa including participation in a RAF 1931 Cairo-Cape flight ( the book says the first such flight but this was in 1926!)

[mandyW]

@one11 - thank you so much for this reference! I've ordered this book and am very excited to see the photo & references.

[mandyW]

Many thanks to DeepestSouth who directed me to these references about my grandfather at:

Phorum :: WWW.MOSSIE.ORG Discussion Forum (http://www.mossie.org/forum/search.php?1,search=pelly,page=1,match_type=ALL,match_dates= 0,match_forum=ALL)

I loved the quote from George Battye - "Nigel Pelly was a wonderful fellow. If you came home and found him in bed with your wife, you would probably take him a cup of tea. A lovely person--no one had anything bad to say about him" !!!

Wonderful!

I am planning to go to the RAF Leuchars Air Show in September, do let me know if anyone who has posted to this thread is also visiting as I'd love to say thanks in person!

[WHBM]

Lost my "Sword in the Sky" a few years ago. Shame. The colour painting on the front cover features a number of the personalities of the airline in semi-cartoon style, so may include NP.

Few notes on the early airlines. Midland & Scottish only existed for just over a year, June 1933 to July 1934, before it closed down and sold its fleet (apart from the Ferry's, which were obsolete), although a few non-scheduled services trickled on for some months. Both John Sword of M&S and Ted Hillman had made a lot of money by building up large bus companies which they sold out to major operators, and used the money to get into aviation, so they had much in common. Hillman were expanding their fleet, and therefore pilot force, rapidly in 1934. Ted Hillman died at the end of that year and the airline was sold to investors, Whitehall Securities, who bought up other operators (including Northern & Scottish, not to e confused with M&S), and formed the original British Airways Ltd.

If Nigel Pelly came from Northern Ireland, M&S were one of the first operators to base an aircraft in Belfast.

If wanting to read up on the history of all these pioneer independents, REG Davies' British Airways Vol 1 1919-39 covers pretty much every single operator. Sorry Mandy, no mention of Capt Pelly in the index.

[scotbill]

He does indeed feature in the painting - with his trademark pipe.
Just wondered - was he the original Nigel that gave rise to the generic term for BOAC first officers :O?

[mandyW]

Thanks scotbill - looking forward to my copy arriving! Managed to get a copy for £1.42 off Amazon - hope it isn't too battered!

@WHBM - Nigelwas born in Madras and moved to Northern Ireland in 1911.

[RampTramp]

Mandy, the latest edition of Aeroplane has an article about D'Arcy Grieg who flew the annual RAF 'Flag Showing Flight' from Egypt to Cape town in 1931 and he mentions Fg. Off. C.N. Pelly as flying, with Fg. Off. Knapp, the third aircraft of the flight. It's a good account & you may want to pick up a copy.

Cheers,

RT

[mandyW]

Many thanks RampTramp, I will buy a copy this week!

[one11]

Good to hear that you located a copy of "Sword in the Sky". Nobody on this thread has yet mentioned the on-line archive of Flight magazine - which has every copy since its foundation. The search facility is not brilliant but it came up with some references , although unfortunately Nigel was apparently not the only aeronautical Pelly, so you have to do some sifting. The site is at

Aviation History - Browse the History of Flight from 1909 (http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/)

[mandyW]

Thanks one11 I had already done a good search of Flight and found some very good references. Very impressive they managed to get all the issues online & searchable.

By the way - "Sword in the Sky" arrived yesterday, fantastic book with loads of references to Pelly and I love the cartoon! Thanks again for telling me about it.

[oldboacpilot]

Nigel Pelly! He was always good fun and everyone loved him. I never had the privilege of flying with him (as we were both Captains) but we were together at Whitchurch and Aldermaston at the same time during our BOAC training and I often saw him down the route. He was one of nature’s gentlemen and I have never heard a word against him.

I should think there are very few people left alive who still remember him. One of them Ron Ballantine died about 8 years ago. Ron knew him well.

I wish I could remember some of the stories for Nigel was a legend.

Kind Regards

Old BOAC Pilot (ex Dakotas, C749s, Argonauts, B312s and B707s)

[mandyW]

Hello OldBOACPilot lovely to hear from you! Wonderful you knew my grandfather, I have PM (Private Messaged) you with some more questions, hope you receive the message ok.

Best wishes

Mandy

[RachelSalt]

Hello.... a few people were trying to identify the person in the middle of this photo. This is Harald Seabrooke-Smith, my maternal grandfather, who was with Imperial Airways and helped organise these flights.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9b/Bundesarchiv_Bild_183-H12784,_Godesberg,_Vorbereitung_M%C3%BCnchener_Abkommen.jpg

If anyone is interested I'd be happy to send some other photos of him through - there's no mistaking him with those ears!! I can see the likeness with the South African mentioned above, but that's not him.

Hope that's of interest to others - if anyone has any more information about Harald Seabrook-Smith then I'd be very pleased to receive it. He died when I was very small and I so never met him, but family history is always fascinating.

[A30yoyo]

Hallo Rachel....By coincidence a contact of mine raised the question of the crew-list for the Chamberlain flights last week and puzzingly neither Pelly or Seabrook-Smith appear on the official list for the second flight to/from Cologne which is where the photo was taken, but as the list has 4 crew on the main aircraft and only 2 on the back-up aircraft on each trip it is quite possible there were 'extras' . I see your grandfather wrote some articles in Aeroplane Monthly in the 1970s which I have and will look at today. I'll send a you a Private Message'...Mick

[HenryMac]

Hi Mandy. I've just come across your message, and wonder if you are still seeking information about your grandfather. My late father, Patrick Macrory, was a fellow pupil of Nigel Pelly at Mourne Grange Preparatory School in County Down c 1920, and wrote about him rather amusingly in an unpublished chapter of his memoirs. My grandparents were friends of Nigel's parents (the connection was through the Royal Inniskilling Fusiliers) and it was on Rosa Pelly's recommendation that my father was sent to Mourne Grange. The information I have relates solely to your grandfather as an 11-year-old schoolboy, and not to his subsequent career. Do let me know if you're interested.

[Buryflier]

Mandy, I have just found this thread - My Dad - Jimmy Miller - often mentioned Nigel , he was on the Ball Bearing run and became Fleet Radio Officer on the Argonauts. I remember being in Rome as a boy and being introduced to your grandfather.
Incidentally I too worked for BA in IM at Boadicea House.
Are you still searching for info ?

[mandyW]

Henry - I would love to hear more info about my grandfather's childhood.. my father, Chris, went to Mourne Grange too and I'll call him up & ask him if he remembers hearing about your father, I am sure he will as he actively keeps in touch with the school and goes to all the reunions. Please feel free to message me privately.

Buryflier I would love to find out more info, this thread has been quite for a long time so lovely to hear from people recently, how amazing your father was Jimmy Miller, I have read a few articles mentioning his name and my father's including this one: RAFCommands Archive :: Researching BOAC Operations and Pilots (http://www.rafcommands.com/archive/09335.php). Please do feel free to get in touch.

[A30yoyo]

Hallo Mandy...There is a very good 13-page account in Air Enthusiast #55(autumn1994) of British Airways Ltd early involvment in WWII, written by a Radio Operator, Alan Wood, who mostly crewed with Capt. Flowerday but was in close contact with Capt. Pelly (who is mentioned several times)....can scan if required

[mandyW]

yes please @A30yoyo! Nice to hear back from you!

[eejaym]

My Father often talked about Captain Pelly visiting Dungiven - he often flew there landing behind the Manse on the outside of the town. He always called for Dad's cousin to come and see to the plane. Dad often talked about him as the pilot who flew Chamberlain. He is buried in our graveyard - that's what made me search for him and I found this forum - he is just 2 graves up from my father's grave.

[mandyW]

Thanks so much for replying, lovely to hear the story. I have never visited his grave but would very much like to.

[A30yoyo]

There's currently an old 'official' photo of BOAC Mosquito G-AGGF on the runway at Leuchars on eBay generously sized scan, too

Photograph of de Havilland Mosquito - G-AGGF - BOAC | eBay (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Photograph-of-de-Havilland-Mosquito-G-AGGF-BOAC-/141480004233?pt=UK_Collectables_Aeronautica_MJ&hash=item20f0dd8a89)

[mandyW]

A30yoyo - can't remember if I let you know but I forwarded the ebay info to Captain Wilkins' great-nephew and he won it! Many thanks for letting me know, he was delighted.

[BrianAM]

Mandy I have a pilot friend who died a few years ago called Geoff Moss. I have been researching his life to write a book on him. This is an extract:-
My first flight under Captain Nigel Pelly was a wonderful experience. He was a first class pilot and a fine man. As only one pilot was required to fly the Junkers 52, I had time to study and memorise the outlines of towns when lit up.

There are other references in my book especially his flight with Chamberlain.
If you are interested I have researched quite a lot about when your grandfather flew. (But it relates to Geoff) I have several hours of taped interviews with Geoff when he was alive. If you want to contact me my email is [email protected]
Best wishes Brian

[bean]

Sme Captain Moss who was the check Captain on the 707 disaster at Heathrow in 1968 i presume

[lizzy3ah]

Apologies if this is not the correct place to post but I am researching the life of my grandfather - Captain C. Nigel Pelly.

He was born in 1908 and worked for Hillman/Imperial Airways/BOAC/British Airways flying Lockheed Electras,Canadair, Mosquitos, Argonauts and Britannias up until he retired around 1964.

His pilot training was done with 502 Ulster Squadron Special Reserve at Aldergrove.

He was also based in Egypt as part of 216 Squadron during WWII and was involved in the Berlin Airlift.

He flew Neville Chamberlain to meet Hitler in 1938 for the Peace in our Time talks.

I'd be very interested if anyone has any more information about him or even flew with him.

Many thanks

Mandy
Hi Mandy, my Grandfather Alan Finch was on the 1938 flight as a radio officer. I have an original copy of a letter dated Oct 1938 from 10 Downing Street thanking all involved for the successful flight.
It's packed away but, if you are stilling interested I can dig it out. The names of the crew are listed.

[India Four Two]

lizzy,

Welcome to PPRuNe,

I'm just an interested bystander, but I would encourage you to get out the letter and scan it and then post it. That is an interesting historical document that a lot of people here would be interested to see.

PM or email me if you don't know how to post.

I42

[Planemike]

Indeed welcome to Prune. Yes, it would be facinating to see a scan of a very interesting document.


lizzy, can thoroughly recommend I42's IT consultancy service.....!!!


PM

[mandyW]

Hi Lizzy, are you related to Trevor Finch? I was in contact with him about 4 years ago and we exchanged some wonderful stories. I would love to see the letter yes pls.

Thanks for taking the time to get in touch!

[AndyWoo77]

RachelSalt I've only just seen your post, many years after you posted it. I tried to send you a private message, but it says you've exceeded your stored private messages quota and cannot accept further messages until you clear some space. In any case, you're right, the man in the photo is definitely Harald Seabrook-Smith; he was my maternal grandfather too! He died when I was young too, but I have quite a lot of information about him (I inherited all his papers and slides from his very extensive world travels from his days in civil aviation and then as a tour director).

Perhaps if an admin person sees this, they could help me try and private message RachelSalt?

[Senior Pilot]

RachelSalt I've only just seen your post, many years after you posted it. I tried to send you a private message, but it says you've exceeded your stored private messages quota and cannot accept further messages until you clear some space. In any case, you're right, the man in the photo is definitely Harald Seabrook-Smith; he was my maternal grandfather too! He died when I was young too, but I have quite a lot of information about him (I inherited all his papers and slides from his very extensive world travels from his days in civil aviation and then as a tour director).

Perhaps if an admin person sees this, they could help me try and private message RachelSalt?

Unfortunately RachelSalt logged out 7 minutes after her one and only post and has not signed in again since. A 'newbie' has only room for one PM in their inbox so it must be clear to receive anything.

You can always contact Admin and explain what you've said here, and see if they can email her on your behalf.

[AndyWoo77]

Unfortunately RachelSalt logged out 7 minutes after her one and only post and has not signed in again since. A 'newbie' has only room for one PM in their inbox so it must be clear to receive anything.

You can always contact Admin and explain what you've said here, and see if they can email her on your behalf.
Thanks for this Senior Pilot I've tried asking admin if they can contact RachelSalt on my behalf, but to no avail sadly (initially I was told that she couldn't receive PMs because she hadn't posted enough messages, so might be deemed a 'scamster', and when I followed this up was told that she had requested her email be 'invisible'). So it seems the mystery of my grandpa's other family will likely never be solved, and, indeed, that RachelSalt will remain ignorant about her grandfather, even though I could tell her all about him. It seems odd that she used this platform precisely to request information about her grandfather, but that the platform's rules are such that this cannot be done. How frustrating!