Farewell Maritime

[INT ZKJ]

To my colleagues and commrades on 201, 120 & 42 Sqns.

Farewell to Martime's finest.


From one who cannot be with you tomorrow to witness the passing of this country's proud MPA tradition, I wish you all the very best.

Be strong of heart when our Standards are cased for the final time, hopeful that one day they will be paraded infront of a new generation of maritme aviators.

Hic et Ubique.

[fergineer]

I echo that remark...... Good luck guys and have one for me.

[QTRZulu]

Good luck and best wishes to all on parade today and not forgetting those who have worked hard behind the scenes to make it all possible.

This is a sad end for the worlds best maritime force and I for one will have a very heavy heart after spending over 20 years involved with the Mighty Hunter and RAF Kinloss.

I look back with fond memories of a wonderful station and all the amazing people who I have had the pleasure of working with down the years - thanks one and all; I will miss each and everyone as you move on to pastures new.

My sincere and very best wishes

QTRZulu

AR

[Halton Brat]

Best wishes to all, & I hope for a re-birth of RAF Maritime in the future.

Is that 'Drake's Drum' I hear beating......................

HB (ex St Mawgan Nimrod Line, late 70's)

[daze_gone_buy]

Good luck in the future to all at Kinloss.

I am proud to have had the opportunity to serve with so many good people.

Hic et Ubique

:D

[olddog]

May I echo all of the above sentiments. The end of an era, of which the RAF can be justifyably proud. I hope the goverment does not come to regret the loss of capability and especially the expertise, dedication and professionalism of all those that served in Maritime. Hold your heads high at Kinloss. Those who know are aware of the importance of the role and that maritime crews often went well beyond the extra mile to ensure the security of the UK. My best wishes to all that I worked with in the air and on the ground on 120,210,42,206 and the OCU.

This is not my photo, but it seems appropriate (apologies if the copyright is held elsewhere). It will also strike a chord at Waddington next month.

http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/197569_1006515808641_1397285526_30016610_1689_n.jpg

[Old Hairy]

Its 61 years since I first proudly joined my first Maritime Squadron. Im very proud to have been associated with the finest. Bitterly dissapointed to see its demise.May the Phoenix rise from the flames of political stupidity.
Ex 2o2. 205. 206 and the fighting 42snd.

Old Hairy

[Duncan D'Sorderlee]

Goodbye 42, CXX and 201.:(

Well done OC42 and everyone else on parade; you all did us proud.:D

That blasted volcanic ash made an appearance in 4 Hangar earlier this afternoon. I certainly got a bit in my eye!

Duncs:ok:

[Wander00]

Never been "maritime" but was in 18 Gp for a while. End of an era, RIP to those who fell - bonne chance to those remaining.

[MRA4Man]

Like Duncs I too suffered from that darned ash in the eyes. For a group of men and women who have been sold down the river by a despicable bunch of politicians, they held their heads up high. Although, I was heavy of heart I was proud of you all this afternoon. If there is any justice in the world we will return and yet again wipe the floor with our most able and benevelont allies in the Fincastle.

:{:{:{

[Oldsarbouy]

One of the most welcome sights on a long range, over water SAR mission , was the mighty hunter. The march through Forres on Tuesday was equally gratifying and extremely well done. Probably the best aircrew marching in the world! Noticed lots of people suffering from that Icelandic dust in the eyes as well!
:D

[Rossian]

......I heard (from a usual reliable source) that the SWO had "borrowed" some aircrew to bulk out and "smarten up " the station support flight; and according to that worthy "I never ever thought I'd hear myself say that".
As the others have said it really was very well done - all of it.

Will I survive the hangar party tonight??

The Ancient Mariner

[QTRZulu]

I can hand on heart say that as one of those in the parade today I was truly humbled, honoured and just a little bit sad as the Squadrons said farewell.

The standing ovation as we proudly marched off to an uncertain future certainly brought a lump to the throat and that dammed volcanic ash did get everywhere didn't it!

I am extremely proud to have played such a small part in an all round excellent send-off.

Enjoy the night everyone, we've earned it and deserve it.

[tilleydog1]

I would like to echo the sentiments above, served at Kinloss for a couple of years until demob in '79, spent many happy hours and some great detachments with 120, 201 and 206. I wish all you guys and gals all the best for the future, it was an honour to have served with you.

[TorqueOfTheDevil]

Very sad - only the SAR sqns linger on as the last vestige of a light blue maritime capability. It's not looking good for the ex-RNAS sqns is it? Only 202, 203, 206, 207, 208, 216 and 230 remain, and all of those could feasibly be gone within 5 years:{

[Ray Dahvectac]

Whatever the future holds, enjoy the party tonight guys.

Good luck and 'Haste Ye Back' Maritime.

[Dan Gerous]

Saddened to see the report on Reporting Scotland tonight. Had a great time there from 81-84, at what could be best described as a social club masquerading as an RAF Station.

A few pics as a thanks and a tribute to a great place.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v382/toom317/Nimrod-01.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v382/toom317/Nimrod-02.jpg

My last good memory of Kinloss was on this day in 2009, when I went up to photograph the planes in for an exercise. We were treated to a morning and an afternoon sortie by two different airframes, and they both did 6 touch and go's on their return. After getting the obligatory side on record shots, I got right on the centreline on the approach at the bay end to get some shots. I noticed a woman standing off to the side with a small compact camera. I walked over to her and said something along the lines of come over here and you'll get a really good shot. This is the shot I got, and I will always remember the look on her face after the Nimrod passed over our heads.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v382/toom317/Nimrod-03.jpg

[OpsLoad8]

Great shots - thanks:ok: :D

[Avionker]

Having served at Kinloss from '92 to '99 on the Nimrod Software Team I have some great memories of life at ISK. As previously mentioned it was a great social club. I have no regrets about joining the RAF in '84 and none about leaving in '99. I also have to say that as each year passes I am more and more relieved that I decided to get out of the RAF when I did.

The writing was on the wall when I left. We had LAC's arriving on station with a seriously bad attitude, engendered from the softly softly approach which had been adopted on training stations.

I really wouldn't want to be involved in the politically correct, "touch feely", emasculated organisation that bears the name today.....

[MATELO]

Farewell to the mighty one, fantastic squadrons and some wonderful memories.

Godspeed to all those who are venturing into the unknown.

[Duncan D'Sorderlee]

Rossian,

Members of Ops Wg did indeed parade with Stn Flt. They weren't borrowed; they were, I believe, volunteered! And very smart they looked to!

Duncs:ok:

[Rossian]

...that's why he wanted them there. Normally, SWOs in general had/have a very low opinion of aircrew turnout. Hence his surprise.

The Ancient Mariner

[Hoots]

Hope you all gave the sqn's a fitting send off last night, will no doubt hear the stories when I get back next week. Sorry I missed it all, will need to catch up for a few schwallies.

[Neptunus Rex]

Could some kind soul post some photos?

[biddedout]

Never mind the Standards, what has happened to the crew ration boxes? Have they been preserved ready for the next generation Maritime fleet.

[The Old Fat One]

Off Task
Landed
Watch Closed

Good luck one and all

[letsgoandfly]

Thank you to everyone who came to the Squadron disbandment weekends, the Freedom of Forres parade and the Disbandment. Marching along Forres high street you have no idea how many tears I had to hold in and the disbandment march-off of the Standards was the proudest day of my life.

42(R), 201 (Guernsey's Own) thank you for the pleasure, CXX you were the rivals but well done!

Good luck to Maritime's finest and all at RAF Kinloss. Fortiter En Re.

[FODPlod]

Never mind the Standards, what has happened to the crew ration boxes? Have they been preserved ready for the next generation Maritime fleet.

First flew in a Nimrod during a 'trip round the bay' from St Mawgan nearly 40 years ago. Took the entire flight to finish off the rations but still remember being disconcerted when someone opened a window to take photos. Somehow, it didn't seem quite right in a jet 'airliner'.

Thanks for all you've done over the years. Not sure how we'll manage without you.

[ormeside]

Joined Coastal at S of MR in 1952 then Neptunes and Shacks until 1964. Best years of my life. Sad to see the end of "Our Air Force" .Missed the Mighty Hunter though.Good luck to those left in the lurch by the politicians.

[aw ditor]

Where are the Standards' being "laid-up"?

[QTRZulu]

I believe they are being laid up at Cranwell later this week in what will be a low-key ceremony :sad:

[aw ditor]

QTRZulu

Thanks for the info. Any clues as to how one (ex 120 Shacks.) could contact Shiny-Palace' to as it were attend and metaphorically wave-the-flag' at the laying-up?

AD'.

[Yellow Sun]

I believe they are being laid up at Cranwell later this week in what will be a low-key ceremony

It would be more appropriate for 42's standard to be laid up in St Petrocs Church, Bodmin. Anyway the balcony at Cranwell must be getting pretty crowded these days.

YS

[pmills575]

I guess it could be argued that Maritime started to disappear in 1969 when Coastal Command was disbanded, making it a part of Bummer, sorry Strike Command was really the beginning of the end. We were certainly taken over and not amalgamated. As soon as the bomber crowd realised we were about to get a four engined jet with a bomb bay they suddenly took notice.

So many great maritime squadrons and not a single one left, almost unbelievable!

[Shack37]

I guess it could be argued that Maritime started to disappear in 1969 when Coastal Command was disbanded, making it a part of Bummer, sorry Strike Command was really the beginning of the end.


Stabbed in the back whilst on det, no change there then.


http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa163/exshack37/RIPCoastal2.jpg

[Bubblewindow]

Good luck to all f !!
Our pre flight briefs will no longer include "any Nimrods".
I've always wanted to meet up and shoot some air/air photos.

[Bubblewindow]

Good luck to all from 101/105Sqn on the other side of the pond !!
Our pre flight briefs will no longer include "any Nimrods". I've always wanted to meet up and shoot some air/air photos.
Suppose we still have Watch Dog to keep an eye out for.

Slán,
BW

[Roland Pulfrew]

It would be more appropriate for 42's standard to be laid up in St Petrocs Church, Bodmin. Anyway the balcony at Cranwell must be getting pretty crowded these days.

YS

YS

Bit of trivia for you. The standards aren't being laid-up, they are being lodged; 42 and 120 at RAFC Cranwell and 201 in Guernsey. Lodged means they are available for re-issue when the sqn reforms, laid-up is when they are placed onto consecrated ground to decay over time. As the actual standards are all relatively new, it is much more appropriate for them to be lodged. Will we ever see the RAF in a new "expansion era"? I doubt it greatly :( but who knows?

[betty swallox]

It all STILL just seems like a bad dream...

Ex-206 and 42(TB)

[Ivan Rogov]

After the amazing support we received from the community on Tuesday marching through Forres rumour has it the gate guard (Nimrod MR2 XV240) will be destroyed next week! Why the indecent haste to destroy any maritime heritage for the area and remove an already popular local feature which would surely become a lasting connection and reminder in years to come. I can't see a reason why it couldn't be kept; St.Mawgan still manages to keep the Shack in good condition. Even if Kinloss goes Army there is no reason why it couldn't remain, especially considering the support they received from it in recent years (I believe Bassingbourn Camp still has a Canberra).
If it is true, who is responsible for signing it off and why so fast? This all seems rather rushed and underhand, I would be interested to know if any effort has been made to keep it.

[Not Long Here]

Ivan,

Sincerely hope that is only a rumour. What a despicable action to even think of taking.:ugh:

[MFC_Fly]

Disgraceful!!

I think considering the support the Mighty Hunter has provided to the Army they would be happy to look after her. If not there will probably be many ex-Kipper Fleet living in the area willing to do so.

MFC

[davejb]

I'll volunteer to keep the dry team areas dusted <g>
(I could do it on the way home from work).

Better nip down the road wiv me camera I guess, just in case the rumour has some foundation in reality. (Granted that WOULD make this thread somewhat unusual for Pprune....)

[Tallsar]

The LRMPA Nimrods have served with great distinction and success over more than 4 decades protecting and aiding the Nation in so many ways...and no more so than at Kinloss..the veritable post modern home of Maritime and the Nimrod over those years (yes sorry to those from the Duchy....I know it started there but that's not the point!). The Mighty H has earned it's place, more so than many, to be revered for decades to come as a Gate Guardian and as a clear reminder of what and who went before and should come again ( but then maybe that's the prob in this double speak age we live in!). I am too far away now...but surely there must be someone (There at least 2 ex Kipper Fleet starred officers nearby!) will lay down in front of the demolition machines if needed?
I pray it's a rumour....:\:{:ugh:

[NutLoose]

After the amazing support we received from the community on Tuesday marching through Forres rumour has it the gate guard (Nimrod MR2 XV240) will be destroyed next week! Why the indecent haste to destroy any maritime heritage for the area and remove an already popular local feature which would surely become a lasting connection and reminder in years to come. I can't see a reason why it couldn't be kept; St.Mawgan still manages to keep the Shack in good condition. Even if Kinloss goes Army there is no reason why it couldn't remain, especially considering the support they received from it in recent years (I believe Bassingbourn Camp still has a Canberra).
If it is true, who is responsible for signing it off and why so fast? This all seems rather rushed and underhand, I would be interested to know if any effort has been made to keep it.


You may be interested to know the Shack at Coventry has just been returned to her original old white 224 sqn colours last worn in 1954, she is kept as a runner with 3 I think at the moment live and the other in hand.

Hats off to them..... more details on her here

Avro Shackleton WR963 Project thread - Key Publishing Ltd Aviation Forums (http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showthread.php?t=102256)


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v243/Consul/04052011CVT084modcopyred.jpg

[enginesuck]

Sadly, this particular rumour is true.

[Not Long Here]

Absolutely unbelieveable and a kick in the teeth for all that ever flew the aircraft from Kinloss. :mad:

[glad rag]

Well you know who to blame.

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRrsTMnFJBFyMLvh50BbHbYdc3Nhx0SGO1MP7BPcJF nZkUDfZvQ
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[J.A.F.O.]

glad rag, are you seriously suggesting that the Prime Minister gives a monkeys one way or the other about a gate guardian at Kinloss?

[MRA4Man]

Tallsar

It is correct that XV240 will be removed from its plinth and put into the disposal programme but the good news is that XV244, which is in much better physical condition, has been reserved for a local heritage group. Also there is a good chance that XV235 will be dismantled and transported to the RAF Museum Cold War display at Cosford. The business case is with the Nimrod Team Leader; I hope he does the decent thing and close his project team with some dignity even at this eleventh hour.

[Yellow Sun]

Well you know who to blame.

No glad rag,

The die was cast when the previous government reduced the MRA4 fleet size to 9 aircraft and subsequently decided to bring forward the MR2 OSD. Add to that the spending commitments made on the carrier programme and the current government didn't really have many options. Mr Brown has a lot to answer for.

YS

[Tallsar]

YS ...you hit the nail on the head in the strategic context....Mr Brown has during his tenure both as PM and Chancellor undone decades of change and improvement in many areas of public expenditure not least in Defence. We as a Nation are being brought low by his misguided actions... of which the demise of the MRA4 and it's LRMPA/ISTAR capability is just a very depressing and dangerous example.

MRA4 man....yes that's better news despite the despicable and early removal of the Kinloss GG.....Do not see it as a suitable action in any circumstance given KS's history and affiliation to the local community etc. Have we lost all sense of proportion these days and what is involved in these decisions beyond the financial and administrative matters. The overall MRA4 decision IMO will jar in a similar way to the actions post the demise of TSR2 all those years ago only is much more dangerous given the demise of the LRMPA capability in entirety. It is only right that the Maritime force and the MH is remembered by the preservation of a Nimrod at the front of KS for all passers- by and future occupants to view and recall. Shame on all involved in such a reprehensible decision.
:ugh::confused::{

[jamesdevice]

theres a fair bit of rosy-tinted unreality glass-viewing going on here.
The Nimrod fleet were hit with a double whammy
1) that Coroner's report which condemned the existing fleet as being un-airworthy - and questioned whether they had ever been. The Government & MOD were forced by that into closing down the MR2 fleet before they were ht with further crashes and legal claims. After a suitable time to make it look like the decision was not related to the report, they got rid of the potential liability
2) the MRA4 was never going to work. You had an ancient airframe which had been blacksmithed together with massive individual variation making standardisation of parts impossible, major delay in development which meant the sensor and processing electronics fit would have been ten years out of date by the time it came into service - and with the same inherent problem as with the AEW3 - not enough space in the airframe to cool the electronics / avionics. If the AEW3 couldn't be made to work, there was no way the MRA4 could. It was totally naive to try.

The fault in all this saga lies with firstly BAE for proposing yet again an impossible project, and secondly with the incompetents in the MOD who actually decided it was the best deal. The AEW3 fiasco should have taught them better. What should have been done was to take a widebody airliner and fit the proposed MRA4 electronics into it.
All the Governments did (between both of them) was shoot a pair of dead ducks

[glad rag]

Heh, you can just smell the closet tories, Cameron made the decision PERSONALLY despite protestations from such notaries as the 1SL.

Do think that the french have managed to record the sounds of our bombers yet?

[Ivan Rogov]

JD from the last post and your previous ones you come across as a keen spotter with no Mil aviation background? As welcome as your opinions are they seem very uninformed, there is a world of difference between reading an article in a magazine, on a blog or Wikipedia and knowing what you are talking about and I don't think you know what you are talking about.
I'm not trying to be offensive towards you, but I think your last post was wrong and you are trying to connect the wrong dots with ones that don't exist, MRA4 had issues but your points are fantasy. I'm sure in years to come someone will write a definitive book on the project, but many of the details will not come out until people have retired.

Conversely I concur with Tallsar, but I also think the latest Government have made a serious error, possibly on poor advice from their SME :{

[Not Long Here]

JD,

The recent thrust of this thread is not about the rights and wrongs of the MRA4 or the airworthiness of the MR2. Rather it is about the preservation of a piece of Maritime history in the form of the Kinloss Gate Guard.

I have just under 10,000 hours on the aircraft and nearly 30 years of involvement - in spite of the controversy surrounding its latter days, the Nimrod and the crews both air and ground, was a mighty fine capability for any nation to be proud of and that memory should have been preserved at Kinloss.

Regards

[mmitch]

Perhaps if a memorial had been put in front of it to remember the crews who had died during Nimrod service, it might have survived?
mmitch

[stbd beam]

Two things: the book IS being written, by Tony Blackman (Google him) & is called Nimrod Rise & Fall, due for publish 19th Oct - watch this space.

There is a memorial for the crew of XV230 at Kinloss which will hopefully be relocated to the proposed KS heritage centre for preservation ...

[The Old Fat One]

JD

Having crossed swords with you on another thread...fair play to you, your post above contains a great deal of truth. And I'm not a spotter, I was part of the program for a long time.

However, not what this thread is about and plenty of other threads on this subject to contribute to.

QED

[Tallsar]

JD ...your dismissal of the MRA4 while containing elements of fact that had a bearing on the development of the aircraft...are too sweeping and in the end wrong. The mission systems had been thoroughly proven, are still world class (tell the Merlin HMA fleet!) and capable against the threats apparent. As with all new aircraft of such complexity, there would have continued to be limitations and development issues...the extended introduction to service time had already resolved many them. In the end HMG decided that all the issues mitigated against taking further political and financial risks despite the major and dangerous hole now apparent in our maritime and nuclear defence. History will say whether such a decision was sensible especially when balanced against the additional expenditure we will eventually incur on the new platforms and sensor systems...whatever they turn out to be!
Not leaving a memorial Nimrod gate guardian at Kinloss remains an outrage!

[betty swallox]

People (including me!!) still care...

Northern Scot | News | Nimrod group reaches for the skies (http://www.northern-scot.co.uk/News/Nimrod-group-reaches-for-the-skies-with-heritage-plan-10062011.htm)

[betty swallox]

So. At the Tory Party Conference, it's been announced that Special Economic Zones will be set up around the Preston area, catering for the expected job losses at Warton and Salmesbury. Which is good...
Anyone think similar measures will be announced for the good folks of Morayshire???!!!

[pipistrelle]

I doubt that morayshire has enough political clout for anyone in westminster to give a t**s for its future. That I am sure, is part of the reason to get rid of maritime. I don't think it would have been the same if fox ,cameron or any other of their vastly experienced cabinet held the seat there - just idle speculation. At least the foundation fairies will be happy!!

[NutLoose]

Can we not slip a few of these in under the trident replacement and do both jobs at once.....

Russian ideas, you've got to love them..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJPKykks4nE&feature=related

[Biggus]

While my information is anecdotal, I believe Moray College is running a series of "free" courses for people being made redundant from Kinloss.

While these courses are free to the student, they are of course not "free" as such. They are being funded by central government. This is one example of measures being take to help Morayshire, I believe there are others. You could argue that the retention of Lossiemouth vs Leuchars, and moving the Army into Kinloss, were measures designed to help the Moray economy.

Ok, so the region has not been made a Special Economic Zone (do they exist in Scotland?), but some efforts are being made, the area is not being totally cut adrift. Obviously whatever is done will not be enough for some people....


While I am no fan of politicians, and maybe any measures taken were for their own reasons (although the area is a staunch SNP seat so there is little to be gained apart from a bit of good PR), to say that no politician gives a t**s for the area is not supported by the facts.

But why let the facts get in the way of a pprune whingefest!??

[Hummingfrog]

Looks like RAF Lossiemouth is a maritime station today - unfortunately none of the maritime aircraft (Orions) are ours! At least they are from our allies though the way things are going it will not be long before any foreign power that wants the UK will be able to take it - if they want it of course!!

HF

[Biggus]

HF.....

Who would want it...... :(

[The Old Fat One]

Anyone think similar measures will be announced for the good folks of Morayshire???!!!


Morayshire will be fine. It is natural and good that the local folk stuck up for Kinloss and Lossie...just doing their job. But the effect on the local economy will be transient and minimal.

Moray has all sorts of good stuff coming its way. The technological advances in agriculture (especially soft fruit farming) coupled with the climate change and the global demand for food is generating a boom in Scottish farming, with a subsequent knock on effect on the value of land. The coastline is ripe for renewable energy production...in which Scotland intends to become a net exporter. Moray has benefitted for years from the overspill from Aberdeenshire (which has enjoyed the biggest increase in property values anywhere in the UK) and to the West you have Inverness, with all the regioanl development going on there.

Scotland never had the crazy property surge evident down South, so Scottish property is very affordable compared with elsewhere in the UK.

For all those reasons (and more) the Moray coast will do very well over the next 20 years. Check out the BBC website today if you are sceptical

BBC News - Scottish rural house prices double (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-15150611)

[RumPunch]

TOFO dont forget the booming Whisky Industry which I can say is doing very well with recent orders from China and India :ok: