MEng or BEng?

[Scott Duch]

Hey there! There has been a certain issue playing on my mind over the past few weeks. I have just completed my 2nd year in Aeronautical Engineering and I have just sat my final 5 exams, finished last week. I am confident I have passed them all and can begin to look at 3rd year. This time next year, providing I satisfy the requirements, I'll have to decide if I want to do a BEng or an MEng in Aeronautics. I believe people get told that if you do a BEng it's either you don't satisfy the requirements for the masters, you want to pursue a career in finance or management (for example) and not strictly go into engineering or you're you going onto a PhD (or so I have read up on the internet). Having done research into becoming a pilot since my early years of high school, I know you have to keep your options open on the career side of things. I didn't choose to study Aero on the basis it's great because I want to be a pilot, I choose it as engineering would be an ideal back-up choice - something I'm interested in. Here lies my issue. Do I select the Masters, spend another year at uni, increase my student loan further and then pursue flying or just do the Batchelors and the learn to fly? The compliicated issue is that many engineering companies want applicants who apply to their graduate schemes to have obtained a MEng. Some companies do accept BEng degrees with a 2:1 or above, so far, according to my advisor I'm on track with a 1st class.

I was just wanting to know what other people thoughts are on the current climate...would you do another year to obtain a degree so you have loads of options when it came to applying for back-up jobs if flying didn't work out or would you shave a year off your degree, graduate with a BEng and go into flying with a smaller level of debt but less options for engineering/back-up jobs.

Any input, ideas or thoughts would be greatly appreciated. :ok:

[FlightPathOBN]

If one assumes you are in school to learn aeronautical engineering, the the Meng is the path for design..

If you want to be a pilot, why are you in school for engineering, fill out the application on the matchbook cover....:} :}

(its Happy Hour on Friday)

[portsharbourflyer]

Tricky one, when I graduated a BEng was perfectly adequate and only having a BEng was never a drawback. The only reason companies want a MEng is because SARTOR changed the requirements for chartership (exemption from the engineering council exams) from three years of academic study to four years, therefore you now need an MEng or a BEng + Masters. That said I found in aerospace as a contractor I never needed chartership. Actually I would say do the BEng, if you feel you do want to pursue chartership in your engineering career (I know you want to fly, but Engineering can be reasonable way to fund the flying) you can always do a masters later on.

In my opinion someone with a BEng + an extra year in industry is far more useful than a fresh graduated MEng.

For the record only took my a day to line up an enigneering job after losing my FO job on a heavy turboprop.



So yes up to now it has been a good back up.

[floss689]

I had the same problem just a few years ago.

I decided to go flight training as apposed to another year in uni and definitely do not regret the decision. I felt there was no point in sacrificing another year in order to be slightly more qualified for a job I did not want to do.

If you want to fly then go and do it, you can always go back and do a masters. I see little point in gaining more debt in student loans etc. If flying is what you really want, you won't need to worry about engineering again because if you are determined enough you will be successful. Also I believe it would not be a bad time to begin flight training.

Just my opinion, hope it helps and best of luck with whatever decision you come to.

[Scott Duch]

Thanks for your input guys! Thanks.

[The African Dude]

I would also add that a BEng or MEng without any industrial experience is somewhat comparable to a fATPL with 250h. So, be realistic about what sort of engineering work you think you may be able to find, should you ever end up in a situation where you wish to use it. As with flying skills, engineering skills are lost quickly without practice and most potential employers will bear this in mind if the candidate has limited professional development. Focus on the transferable skills when looking for such work rather than the technical skills.

[Paperplanes89]

My two cents is to complete the masters. You've already said you're doing it as a back up, if most companies won't accept a BEng then whats the point of those 3yrs hard work and all that money spent if you can't apply for the best jobs. Shooting yourself in the foot IMHO. I know you want to get out there and start flying (me too!) but in terms of security, getting the MEng is entirely worth it. Furthermore, pilot job market isn't great, but is improving, entering a year later might not be such a bad idea. (I refuse outright to get into a debate about the job market though!;)). Also, if you haven't already, why don't you join the UAS and do some flying with them? Well done with your first, keep up the good work, and best of luck. :ok:

[Mr Grimsdale]

MEng 4 years - undergraduate degree only
BEng 3 years + MSc 1 year - undergraduate and postgraduate degree

The MEng was introduced in the late 80s/early 90s and isn't a Masters degree, a Masters degree is a postgraduate qualification, i.e. you have to already have an undergraduate degree.

You should find the MSc more stimulating than your undergraduate course for various reasons:

there's a lot to cram in
the people genuinely want to be there
when you finish you'll have 2 degrees and have a postgraduate qualification
you will have completed a real research project

['India-Mike]

Scotland - MEng 5 years; BEng 4 years. At least in the peoples' free socialist republic of jockistan the university education's still free:)

I found 4 years bad enough - I'd be ready to kill after 5.
Worst thing I ever did was leave my CPL/IR so late in life.

Engineering in this country is finished anyway. Eject eject eject:ugh:

[Scott Duch]

MG - I'm an undergrad at the University of Glasgow so another year of work. The good old government is kind enough to pay for my fees, the only thing they are good at right now! :p

I'd be 21 once I graduate with a BEng then it's time to hit the skies. Ferrari seem a good choice when it comes to engineering careers, their F1 team does look tempting!

['India-Mike]

You'll be lucky if there's anyone left to teach the Aero degree over the next couple of years:ugh:

[Scott Duch]

Things really bad at the university? I heard the drop out rate from our year was very poor (2009)....Is there a high intake at Glasgow?

['India-Mike]

You know my view. Get out after year 3 with a BSc and get stuck into flying training. Major staff changes afoot here. Losing 3 I know of; I'm being interviewed this week as well makes 4 potentially with another 2 in the wings (no pun).

Without an MEng the CEng is less than straightforward. Requires 'matching sections'. I know of one PhD who was told his MSc didn't count for that and his 3 Year aero PhD didn't count as experience for CEng. If you want. CEng do the MEng

[Scott Duch]

Thanks for your view! It's another option for me to consider. I didn't relise things were like that in the dept. Looks like I may have to leave, like you say, there won't be anyone left to teach 4th year!:ugh:

CEng has never really interested me as such, it's not something I have researched much but I just want to start working towards my CPL/IR once I'm done with university.

[atomicflight]

Well I only have less than one week left till I'm finished with my MEng.

5 years is a long time and I can vouch(?) for that.

India-Mike - I know what you mean, the dept, well the aero part of the school, has changed over the past year and will change alot over the next couple of years esp. if most of the experience staff leave.

[mrsurrey]

Out of curiosity has anyone had job offers yet with a newly minted BEng / MEng? I'm wondering what the latest typical graduate salaries are. thanks

[FlightPathOBN]

Out of curiosity has anyone had job offers yet with a newly minted BEng / MEng?

"do you want fries with that"

[mad_jock]

Well that must be a huge change from when I graduated in 1996 Flight.

30% of our lot went into finance top end stuff not shop book keeping and had a better pass rate at the chartered exams than the buisness school grads.

20% went to the forces or police.

39 %went into engineering type jobs.

10% post grad. Either a Phd or some flavour like Bio Engineering,law or the like.

1% went into teaching/ year out.

I think 3 went travelling and only 1 didn't have a job although he was a lazy git and hadn't actually applied for anything. Out of 125 Graduating

Salary ranges for Engineering type jobs 15K up to 45K 15k was normal grad jobs and 45k was Oil offshore Wireline type stuff.

Finance was 25K to 100k depending what it was. One lads bonus the year after graduating was 250k but that was in the City not bad with a 2.2.

And Engineering degree isn't just for Engineering there are loads of companys and jobs out there that are more than happy with any numerical degree. Engineering degrees are also credited with having significant problem solving training.

There is alot of snobbery in Engineering with where you got your degree with say a 1st at a Breeze Block establishment being equiv to a 2.2 from one of the better established Uni's.

Although I will grant you this may have all changed over the last 10 years since I worked in the industry.

[206Fan]

I'm starting a BEng in Electrical Engineering this year. I have left it a bit late in life to start it but I just want to get it done before I'm 30. I was more interested in working when I left school and eventually doing my PPL. Reality has hit me now.

A friend of mine has just finished his 2 year Masters in the same area and has told me to stay the hell away from it and just do the BEng or MEng if things go to plan and get into the Engineering industry.

Have any of you guys done the Electrical Degree?

Dave

[Mr Grimsdale]

Davy07, why did your friend suggest you stay away from the MSc?

[4015]

I graduated a couple of years ago with a BEng.

Took a couple of months off after finishing to enjoy summer, then took a carp job for a few months after that for reasons which aren't important here. Took me 5 minutes to pick up that job.

I looked for an engineering job about a year go, when it was a very dire situation. Took a non graduate job on poor pay, which took me a day to get.

After a 5 months I'd increased my salary to above graduate rates and changed job roles twice, and it now pays for my flight training and bills with enough spare for a beer every now and then, and my bosses are very supportive and help me to take short notice opportunities.

Don't take everything at face value when it comes to employment. For the record, I'm glad I just did the BEng. I have friends who started their MEng courses at the same time as me who are only just graduating. They have huge debts, and even the guys who managed MEng Firsts are going to come into a job getting paid a lot less than me.

[206Fan]

Mr Grimsdale,

I'm guessing it was to do with the severe workload involved. Never seen him so stressed out in my life and hes a whizz at Maths. He secured a job in the Finance area for when he finishes up this summer. He told me the MEng Degree would of got him into the same job 2 years ago if he hadn't of done the 2 year MSc.

Dave

[mad_jock]

The prob with any Eng post grad is that it keeps you away from the job market.

A year of industrial experence under your belt is worth more than a year post grad.

Until you have served your time in industry your an unknown quanity and until you have worked 3-5 years your actually pretty useless. Doing a post grad doesn't really change this fact.

[Scott Duch]

Thanks for the great replies. I'm aiming to have summer work experience lined up for next summer. By that that I'll have 75% of my degree completed and it would seem a sensible time to get some contacts in the industry. This summer I'm just planning on getting money together but beginning to look into various work placements. That would allow me to graduate with a BEng have work experience under me and enhance my chances of getting a job should I choose not to carryout the flying.

I already have a little work experience working for a big engineering firm the summer before I started uni so I guess a little is better than none!

[mad_jock]

Sounds like a plan.

You are doing all the right things. It was always quite amusing listening to the other students holiday jobs when we got back.

Our course had all earned heaps of cash doing a wide range of well paying jobs from the ones who were time served through to one lad who worked as an undertaker with a side line in grave digging. The fact you did something during the summer break is better than alot of folk and if its engineering related even better.

[Scott Duch]

Thats good to hear mad_jock :ok:

Unfortunatley my job isn't that interesting. Working in a shop can be a bit mind numbing. Although, proving the customer is not always right helps pass the time! Money is money at the end of the day and I'm just spending my time lining up some possible engineering placements for next year. :)

[mad_jock]

Remeber where there is muck there is brass.

Have a look for jobs that nobody else wants and they are usually quite well paid.

I drove a bin wagon for 3 months much to the hilarity of some. They soon changed there tune though when they found out I was on 9 quid an hour plus over time from the council and this was in the days you got 4 quid an hour for working in a bar.

edited to add you in Scotland surely you can get a labouring job or the like in an Engineering firm? I started out aged 15 in the oil yards in Aberdeen slinging pipe.