Omega Air B707 crash Pt. Magu California (merged)

[bizjets101]

Pt. Mugu - An airbase spokesman says a Boeing 707 tanker has crashed on takeoff at Point Mugu Naval Air Station in Ventura County. Crew survive with minor injuries.

Pt. Mugu Crash: Boeing 707 Crashes and Explodes in Flames at Point Mugu - ktla.com (http://www.ktla.com/news/landing/ktla-jet-crashes-at-point-mugu,0,6736868.story)

[EW73]

Looks like a KC135 to me, sorta like a 707 I guess!

[11Fan]

It was these guys. Not a KC-135.

Omega Air Refueling (http://www.omegaairrefueling.com/vms/)

[MikeNYC]

EW73, Omega Air Refueling Services operates 2 private 707s that are contracted to provide refueling to US military branches. While they look like KC-135s, the tank system is different and these 707s started life as airliners (one as a Pan-Am plane, and the other as a Royal Saudi Air Force transport).

[Tenmen]

They have also been seen in Australia doing the same for the RAAF

[fatbus]

707 = kc137 larger than the kc135 =720

[aviatorhi]

Not a KC-137 (and a KC-135 is not a 720 it's a 717), it was a civilian aircraft owned and operated by Omega Air (civilian) on air refueling contracts for various governments, I believe this is one of (if not the) last 707 in commercial service (aside from the Saha Air birds in Iran). Would park next to us frequently in HNL. If memory serves it was a 707-300. I believe Omega has some L1011s doing the same as well.

[D-IFF_ident]

Omega tanker crashes at Point Mugu | Australian Aviation Magazine (http://australianaviation.com.au/2011/05/omega-tanker-crashes-at-point-mugu/)

Good to hear the crew are all okay.

[BEagle]

Indeed, D-IFF_ident - that's the most important thing.

N707MQ was one of the last 'classic' 707s, I gather.

More here: Military plane crashes in Southern California - CNN.com (http://edition.cnn.com/2011/US/05/18/california.military.crash/)

[Flightmech]

2 707-300's (well one now) and 1 DC-10-40. The DC10 was a regular static aircraft at RIAT Fairford.

[Al R]

.. it is believed the 707 was carrying 150,000 of jet fuel but all 3 crew members escaped with only minor injuries.

Good outcome.

I wonder if having a fitness test 'tick' would have made any difference with this one though..? ;)

[BEagle]

I would imagine that adrenaline would have had rather greater effect on the ability to leg it sharpish than the artificial requirements of some gel-haired gym queen, Al. In any case, a Class 1 medical is considered entirely adequate for similar aircraft in civilian operation.

An updated news item here: Military plane crashes, burns in Point Mugu | abc7.com (http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?section=news/local/ventura_county&id=8139154)

[green granite]

"Several firefighting agencies were summoned to extinguish the flames from the ground and air. A helicopter dumped several loads of water on the tanker. Firefighters on the ground appeared to be letting the fire burn but were dousing the area around the plane."

Water on fuel? That really sounds like a good idea. :rolleyes: The concept of letting it burn is probably a good one as it will minimize the impact of fuel contamination and since the crew were out there was no reason why not.

[Iolar]

Not the first time that an Omega/McEvaddy 707 has failed to get airborne, luckily no fatalities on this occasion.

ASN Aircraft accident Boeing 707-321B N320MJ Marana-Pinal Air Park, AZ (MZJ) (http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19900920-1)

[SASless]

Watching the video...."Dropping water near the burning aircraft" would be more accurate.:E

[Old Fella]

Interesting that the RAAF is chartering B707 tankers. Pity they had not kept one or two of their own fleet until the new aircraft became operational.

[twochai]

(and a KC-135 is not a 720 it's a 717),

In fact, the KC-135 had a narrower fuselage than the 707/720 series.

[Piper_Driver]

From the news coverage it looked like a loss of control during a rejected take-off attempt. The tire tracks veer off the side of the runway and there is an engine that has sheared off prior to the time the aircraft came to rest. The fire burned for hours. Those guys were lucky to get out with minor injuries.

[sevenstrokeroll]

I agaree with piper driver's analsysis.

Dear moderator, this should be in NEWs forum. can't imagine a big airliner (granted converted to a private company tanker) running off the side of the runway in an apparent rejected takeoff and then burning not being NEWS that a professional pilot wouldn't want to see.

[beamender99]

BBC News - US military plane crashes during take off (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-13452001)

A few different viewes of the scene

[Daysleeper]

The concept of letting it burn is probably a good one as it will minimize the impact of fuel contamination and since the crew were out there was no reason why not.

Ahem... accident investigation anyone?

[sevenstrokeroll]

NTSB sent out an e mail saying that they would investigate and that AN ENGINE FIRE was involved.

that's 30.

PS, is this converted type tanker lacking a flying boom? seems so.

[BEagle]

The OmegaAir Boeing 707 was not fitted with a boom. The primary US clients fly probe-equipped aircraft; the USAF has plenty of its own boom tankers.

[SASless]

Accident investigation?

A non-passenger carrying aircraft...on a US Navy Contract....one of the very last of its kind flying....what issues of interest could be resolved? I would bet there is only Third Party insurance coverage....the crew was unhurt....the crash site was on the airport....with no damage to any structure, person, or vehicle.

Call in the bulldozer, front end loader, dump trucks...and haul the scrap off to the dump. Clean up the site...grade back to level....and off to the Pub.

[corsair]

The BBC describes it as a US military aircraft. In fact it's not military and it's Irish. Omega being the child of the McEvaddy brothers. I know them both, this being Ireland after all. Took tea with them several times when they flew in, onboard their Longranger. I remember when Omega Air headquarters was over an ice rink, owned by the brothers in a less than salubrious part of Dublin. The kind of area where you closed the windows and locked the doors of your car and you DIDN'T walk through, your avoided it.

Sad to see an old classic burning, very sad. Not many 707s left.

[Tankertrashnav]

not being NEWS that a professional pilot wouldn't want to see.

They are very welcome to come and view it here. Professional civilian aircrew are always given a hearty welcome in Military Aircrew.


Wish I could say the reverse was the case :(

As a former refuelling operator I was interested to hear that there were civilian AAR tankers - hadn't heard of that before. Intersting that it's apparently probe and drogue as well.

[Danold]

I work for the company that does the scheduled maintenance on Omegas 707s and when i heard the news this morning, my heart sank. I instantly thought of the things that I worked on while we had the plane. All I remember doing was an A and B check on the gear and wheel wells and some stuff on the wings(this was about a month or 2 ago). Needless to say, I am very confident in my work.... and we didnt have any problems on the test flight.

So here is the story I got from my maintenance manager.... ( I have been told this is not N707MQ but it is N707AR but not 100% sure yet)

The plane was loaded with 150,000lbs of fuel... upon takeoff(with a 26knot crosswind), engines 1 and 2 had compressor stall 10ft off the ground. the plane was too heavy to takeoff on #3 and 4 engines so the pilots aborted takeoff. The forced landing torn the gear off and #4 engine. the crew made it out with the cockpit escape lines.

I have been told the Feds will be here Monday to review the paper work but the work done to the plane should be legitimate.

If you guys have any questions about the plane, feel free to ask. I will try to keep you posted on what I hear within the company.

[aviatorhi]

In fact, the KC-135 had a narrower fuselage than the 707/720 series.

Yep, it's actually a derivative of the 367-80 (referred to as the Dash-80 and "considered" the first 707 in most documentaries), Boeing designated it the 717. Meanwhile the "new" 717 is really an MD-95, which is an updated MD-80, which is an updated DC-9.

Back to the topic at hand...

Accident investigation?

A non-passenger carrying aircraft...on a US Navy Contract....one of the very last of its kind flying....what issues of interest could be resolved?

How did a CRJ crashing in TN or KY (I forget which) due to sheer stupidity affect me even though I'm on a completely different aircraft? Well the FAA came out with what I refer to as "the stupid pilot checklist" (Compass, Compass, Compass, Flaps, Idle). Soon enough they'll come up with a sleeping controller checklist that I'll have to complete as well, who knows what they'll come up after this, probably additional training on rejected takeoffs when one engine comes off the aircraft and severs control lines (might have happened, don't know yet). If it's one thing I've seen the "human factors" people love to beat dead horses into the ground, and this will be no different.

[GreenKnight121]

The KC-135/C-135 series have a fuselage diameter of 132-inch (3.35 m). This is the same as the "-80" prototype.


The 707 & 720 have a fuselage diameter of 148 inches (3.76 m), as do the C-137/E-3/E-6/E-8s built for the USAF and the NATO TC-49As.

The USAF C-18 are conversions of civil B707s.

[soon7x7]

Just a suggestion,...I was also down in your facility and saw the tanker under maintenance for some months...While an investigation will be directed at your facility, it would be advised you "know nothing"...(speak to my super) you don't know who you are talking to and any word you post online can be misconstreud. Since this event was caused by powerplant failure, it was powerplants you were working on as well as other items...let your super deal with the issues. Investigators, while they may be nice fellows can rip your career and others, out from under you while you thought you were just being helpful. (Just trying to save you some grief):ok:

[BEagle]

...it would be advised you "know nothing"...

...and Captain Blackadder definitely did not shoot this delicious plump-breasted pigeon!

[jamesdevice]

when we were being trained in how to handle the press / public as part of any disaster containment exercise (we were dealing with hazhems) was to admit NOTHING and refer all questions back to head office.
Even the smallest slightest comment by the most junior member of staff could be taken as a legal admission of liability - and result in the insurers refusing to pay.
The rule was for the head-person on-site to say something like "Yes, there has been an incident (note NEVER a MAJOR incident) and we are investigating along with the regulatory authorities, who will receive our full co-operation. That is all I can say for now - further comments will come from our head office at..."

And never EVER answer any questions unless you've the company lawyer and insurers present and they BOTH agree the answer

[Graybeard]

[/URL] [URL="http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/blogs/defense/index.jsp?plckController=Blog&plckBlogPage=BlogViewPost&newspaperUserId=27ec4a53-dcc8-42d0-bd3a-01329aef79a7&plckPostId=Blog%3a27ec4a53-dcc8-42d0-bd3a-01329aef79a7Post%3aacc86c0a-68a4-466a-a468-5e1f9dcfd7cd&plckScript=blogScript&plckElementId=blogDest"]Classic Loss (http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/community/persona/index.jsp?newspaperUserId=157843&plckUserId=157843)
Posted by Guy Norris (http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/community/persona/index.jsp?newspaperUserId=157843&plckUserId=157843) at 5/20/2011 3:33 PM CDT
This week’s crash of an Omega Boeing KC-707 air refueling tanker at Naval Base Ventura County Point Mugu, Calif, is a big loss to the aerospace industry research and development community.


Although frequently chartered to the U.S. Navy, Marine Corps and international customers such as the Royal Australian Air Force for standard air refueling during exercises, training and deployments, the Omega fleet also plays a key role in supporting research, development, test and evaluation work across the U.S. Together with a sole surviving 707 sistership, and a single KDC-10 tanker – a DC-10-40 equipped with two Flight Refueling hose and drogue wing pods, the fleet provides a rare capability. The KC-707 is fitted with two Sergeant Fletcher baskets on the aft centerline, although only one assembly can be used at one time.

The Omega tanker was left to burn itself out close to the beach. Credit: ABC

The classic jetliner community is also mourning the loss of a rare active 707 (as opposed to the relatively ubiquitous KC-135). According to the FAA, the aircraft written off in the May 18 aborted take-off accident was the older of Omega’s two 707s – a 1969-built -321 model. In an ironic twist it turns out that nine months after its March delivery to Pan Am that year, the same 707 was almost written off in an aborted take-off at Sydney Kingsford-Smith airport, Australia on Dec 1, 1969.


(http://sitelife.aviationweek.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/8/14/c8062a5b-d753-4004-8eda-0b341657fdff.Full.jpg)Flashback 42 years - the same 707 survived an aborted take-off in Australia. Credit. John Burgess

On that occasion, the aircraft (N892PA) was substantially damaged after an overrun caused by bird strikes and a related engine failure, but there were no fatalities to the 11 crew and 125 passengers. Thankfully the current crew of the 707, now registered N707AR, also survived the May 18 accident. According to images of the scene, the aircraft left scorch marks across parts of the ground and a taxiway as it ran off the south side of Point Mugu’s 11,102-ft long main 3/21 runway. The 707 came to a rest close to the overrun area and the beach which borders the west side of the Point Mugu facility.


According to sources, the combined Navy, NTSB and FAA investigation team is focusing on an engine failure and fire as the suspected cause of the accident which occurred at around 17.25 Pacific time.

[herkman]

Whilst the loss is regretted it is great no lifes lost.

The RAAF have at least two more frames for sale as replacements

Regards

Col

[Heathrow Harry]

probably more DC-3's still flying than 707's - only about 43 left in service

[lotus1]

i belive they also had a base at manston in the 90/s strange things use to go on there?

[SpringHeeledJack]

i belive they also had a base at manston in the 90/s strange things use to go on there?

Landings across the runway, rather than along it ?