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rotornut
16th May 2011, 07:23
We landed on a piece of turf in a riverbed that is fairly straight. But that little piece wasn't and the wheels went cockeyed. As a result, the helicopter rolled, the blades broke, and it finished the roll ending up on its side.Dynamic rollover?

Four soldiers hurt in Afghanistan helicopter accident (http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/Four+soldiers+hurt+Afghanistan+helicopter+accident/4787736/story.html)


http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/4787742.bin?size=620x400s
KANDAHAR, Afghanistan — Four Canadian soldiers were injured when a helicopter "rolled" Monday during a "hard landing" on a riverbed in Afghanistan.
The Canadian CH-47 Chinook transport chopper accident occurred during night operations by the Quebec-based Royal 22nd Regiment in the Horn of Panjwaii. Insurgents were not blamed in the incident.
None of the injuries were considered serious or life threatening at this time, said Maj. David Devenney, the Task Force Kandahar spokesman. Among several dozen passengers was a Canadian journalist who was uninjured.
Three of the wounded were flown by another helicopter to the U.S. Navy-run Role 3 Hospital at Kandahar Airfield. Canadian and other coalition forces secured the crash site.
"I am extremely happy everybody is in good shape," said Brig.-Gen. Dean Milner, the Canadian commander. "The casualties were very minor. They'll be looked at over the next few days."
"It was a standard operation," Milner explained. "We move Chinooks through that battle space all the time and are very deliberate about where we land. We landed on a piece of turf in a riverbed that is fairly straight. But that little piece wasn't and the wheels went cockeyed. As a result, the helicopter rolled, the blades broke, and it finished the roll ending up on its side."
Devenney said that an assessment was being conducted to decide whether the aircraft was salvageable. Initial reports suggested that it had been heavily damaged.
Milner said that the damaged helicopter would have no impact on military operations.
"There will be no loss of operational tempo as we close in on the fighting season which is about to begin because the poppy harvest is almost over," he said.
Monday's accident was the third involving a Canadian helicopter in Afghanistan. Another Chinook was hit by insurgent gunfire and burned after being forced to make a hard landing on Aug. 5, 2010. Eight soldiers were wounded in the crash.
Thirteen months earlier a smaller Canadian CH-146 Griffon helicopter crashed on takeoff in neighbouring Zabul province. Three on board died and three others were injured.
Those who died were: Master Cpl. Pat Audet, 38, of Montreal, and Cpl. Martin Joannette, 25, of St-Calixte, Que., and a British officer.
Another Canadian, military photographer Master Cpl. Darrell Jason Priede, was killed in 2007 when the U.S. Chinook helicopter that he was flying in was apparently shot down in Helmand province. Six other coalition soldiers died in that crash.
Helicopters are one of the main ways to get around southern Afghanistan's rugged terrain. When available they are often the preferred means of transport because the Taliban often mine the roads with homemade explosives.
Canada acquired a small fleet of Chinooks from the U.S. army after the Manley Panel on Afghanistan recommended to Parliament that helicopters were urgently needed to help troops off Kandahar's dangerous roads.
© Copyright (c) Postmedia News

Graviman
16th May 2011, 11:53
Does he mean rear wheels? I guess this is always going to be a problem with a tail dragger.

Fixed front landing strut:
http://www.chinook-helicopter.com/standards/images/forgear1.jpg

Steerable rear landing strut:
http://www.chinook-helicopter.com/standards/images/aftgear1.jpg

Boeing CH-47 Chinook - the Landing Gear. (http://www.chinook-helicopter.com/standards/areas/gear.html)

helihub
16th May 2011, 12:40
http://www.google.com/hostednews/canadianpress/media/ALeqM5gHNBn5aRIV1hWxGSvEDS_EsEbHrQ?docId=KANDX10258711_low&s ize=l

Variable Load
16th May 2011, 14:25
Devenney said that an assessment was being conducted to decide whether the aircraft was salvageable.

The assessment shouldn't take too long!

I wonder what the going rate for scrap metal is in Afghanistan? :ouch:

rotornut
16th May 2011, 19:59
Could someone explain exactly why it rolled? Did the wheels lock or snag on something?

Rigga
16th May 2011, 21:19
If the rear wheels are extended the Proximity Switches should ensure they get locked fore-and-aft - and should remain locked until steering is selected.

I could imagine landing on a river bank may mean landing in Mud that may cause some drag if the "Stick-tion" is uneven - pulling the aircraft to one side...

A rigga's simple view.

rotornut
16th May 2011, 22:55
So dynamic rollover?

Granny
17th May 2011, 02:59
Rigga
What are you smoking?
Firstly chinnook wheels are always extended! so what do you mean the proximty switchs lock them fore and aft??-they are fixed mate. I think what you meant to say was the aft gear can be locked or in swivel or steer.
A Chinnook does have a ground contact switch on the aft gear which illuminates a ground contact light on the panel also these switchs drive the LCT's to ground position and it also removes 50% authorithy in fore aft cyclic through the AFIC's.
Not sure what's Rigga's on about but he got one thing right- it certainly was simple

TwinHueyMan
17th May 2011, 03:20
I've seen a few Chinooks come back from flights missing aft landing gear. You fly it like a Blackhawk and it's possible to break them off. Depending on how the landing continues, obviously a rollover is a real possibility, though none of our incidents ended up that way.

One of the better write-ups came from one of these incidents: "Aft left landing gear took first and second dunes allright, could not handle third"

Mike

SASless
17th May 2011, 23:38
I've seen a few Chinooks come back from flights missing aft landing gear. You fly it like a Blackhawk and it's possible to break them off.

Errrrr.....ahhhhh....say what?


Forgit to lock the swivels and the old girl does get a bit fast on her hind feet sometimes! Differential braking is not one of the Wokka's strong points either....particularly with a bit of forward stick left while all the confusion in the rear end goes on.

gazbert
18th May 2011, 14:31
The US Marines were involved in recovering it and have posted picture on their website -

http://www.marines.mil/unit/mcascherrypoint/PublishingImages/110517-M-DXXXX-005.jpg


http://www.marines.mil/unit/mcascherrypoint/PublishingImages/110517-M-AN675-002.jpg


http://www.marines.mil/unit/mcascherrypoint/PublishingImages/110517-M-AN675-001.jpg

Torque Tonight
18th May 2011, 21:50
Top picture shows the aft strop lifting the Chinny by the engine mounts not the aft rotor head. Hmmm. It's been a few years but I'm sure the USL manual showed the Chinny being lifted by the heads. Presumably the blade impact trashed the heads and transmission so they are not load bearing. However, I wouldn't have thought the engine mounts would carry the weight of the back end of the aircraft either. Interesting.

HLCPTR
18th May 2011, 22:26
Zoom in. It looks like it's from the frame at the forward adge of the aft pylon.

ralphmalph
18th May 2011, 22:46
Riverbed = lots and lots of dust
Night = working hard for references

Combine the 2 and you have a great recipe for another crash to add to the list of disorientation due to dust and NVG low light approaches.

Lets see what the offical response is. But the whole dust landing gambit is not one to be taken lightly!

Ralph

herkman
18th May 2011, 23:46
Give it to the RAAF they can or once upon a time fix to new standard.

An example was the F4 which the yanks said was a right off, but in their spare time was as good as new.

Regards

Col

47Flyer
19th May 2011, 00:35
I've seen several -47s come back without the benefit of either the fwd or aft gear fully attached, or just plain gone, & I've been around those beasts for almost 20 years.

All taken at various times in the sandbox :
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v26/ishthe47guy/CH-47%20pics/S7301973.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v26/ishthe47guy/CH-47%20pics/S7301928.jpg

Mishaps not limited to US -47s. This is an Aussie bird coming back after ripping its aft left gear off:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v26/ishthe47guy/CH-47%20pics/S7302869.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v26/ishthe47guy/CH-47%20pics/S7302864.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v26/ishthe47guy/CH-47%20pics/S7302865.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v26/ishthe47guy/CH-47%20pics/S7302866.jpg

Pic of the accident aircraft in better times:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v26/ishthe47guy/CH-47%20pics/S7303655.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v26/ishthe47guy/CH-47%20pics/S7303659.jpg

I think what Rigga ment by the gear was extended was that the oleo strut was fully extended, as to be expected when there is no weight on the gear.

47 Flyer

Ron Fenest
24th May 2011, 00:17
I'm easily confused but I was told by the Canadians that this was a direct result of disorientation due to dust, doesn't seem to match the official line/press release. Maybe it is something to do with the fact that the SOP is to O/S if references are lost? and we all do that don't we.

At least if the reported version is correct then the UK MOD bean counters will not have to worry about procuring a perfectly good solution to mitigate "brownout", that is until it's one of ours and the crew/pax aren't so lucky.

Hilife
24th May 2011, 08:39
TT

There are lifting lugs mounted on the cabin structural box sections either side of the combining transmission input drive couplings as I recall and two just aft of the forward transmission so as to allow airframe lifting without the gearbox's or aft pylon fitted.

As this was a rotors running rollover, damage to the vertical pylon would be a cert, so lifting from the rear head not such a smart idea.