Difference in insurance for light jets to fly single piloted or 2 pilots

[yau2801]

Hi all, I am quite new to this forum so I am not too sure if I am posting this in the right section. Anyway, I am writing a Final Year Project about single pilot operation, and I am trying to talk about insurance factors that could affect the possibility of the implementation of the idea.
I wanted to use the cost of insurance that applies to today's light jet, like the Citation I which can fly with two pilot but also single pilot, I wanted to know the approximate cost difference for insurance between the two, to give a good idea how expensive it can be when the size of operation is scaled up, and to determine if it is worth it saving one pilot's salary but to pay a sky-high insurance cost.

Cheers,
Mike

[terryb99]

In the US, where the FAA single pilot exemption is available for some Citations over 12,500 pounds, insurance is not bad.
The Citation pilot I spoke with said that the required yearly recurrent training, complete with a check ride, satisfied the insurance companies.
The safety record of single pilot flying is also very good, better than the naysayers like to admit, lol.

[yau2801]

Would there be some approximate figures that I can use to compare? Cheers

[terryb99]

Sorry, he did not give me numbers.

He said first year it was a "little" more than a 2 pilot policy. Then after his first recurrent training, the price was the same.

He was also the owner, not sure if that makes a difference.

[sovereign680]

Well in 11 years of buying insurance for US or European registered Citation Jets there was never a premium to be paid in private/ corporate operations for single pilot operation as long as that pilot is qualified and FlightSafety or Simuflite trained and current to fly single pilot.
The premiums are paid by the "low end of the food chain" commercial operators with no regular simulator training of the pilots (all two of them) and they do have the higher accident rate ( see Cocklin&Decker).
Also in more than 20 years of flying for a living I learned one thing: If you would like to evaluate the risk ask an insurance how much it is to cover the risk. Use real numbers and not rumor.
And you will see single pilot operation of a pilot who is qualified and trained to fly a jet it is not more expensive or dangerous. (If the jet is built for it)

[galaxy flyer]

That's quite an evolution. Thirty years ago, the insurance premium for single pilot ops was easily equal to just paying the second pilot, but they had little data to go on. There was also some high profile fatal accidents like Thurman Munson. That said, why would anyone buy a $8 million jet and cheap out by flying it single pilot? I recognize the safety record built up, but still the pilot is the most likely piece of the plane to fail.

GF

[theficklefinger]

My SP rate in SIIs to Ultras was typically $22k a year.

Most crew guys I talked to started at $35k, heard $110k once..ouch.

It's not an SP vs Crew, it's the calculated risk of 'named pilot' and what he brings to the table.

Typically if the boss wants one guy up front, he tends to hire someone decent...when they feel they need two, he tends to cut corners..like an ok Captain, but idiot nephew in the right seat.....either way the rates tend to go up in crew cockpits as there is usually some low timer in there that bumps the risk..

Two 3000 hour pilots does not equal one 6000 hour pilot with regard to insurance premiums.

On top of that, your sending two guys to school, carrying more people, more gas to get there...I figured crew ops on a Citation cost your typical operator about $100k more a year then single pilot, assuming a roughly 350 hour a year flight schedule.

[yau2801]

Looking at the previous replies I do understand that the cost of insurance is depending on the risks not the numbers of crews.
However, say 2 pilots with 3000hours each and a single pilot with 3000hours, all at their 30years old, same backgrounds, in terms of individual would the insurance for the single pilot not be anymore expensive than one of the pilot in the 2 crew operation? As I would probably see there is more risk operating with one less pilot.:ugh:

[terryb99]

I think you may need to reread the responses you have received.

Data shows no more risk for a properly trained and qualified single pilot. Therefore, there is not an increase in insurance costs over a 2 pilot crew.

[theficklefinger]

yau2801,

I understand your trying to go apples to apples, but to be realistic, the SP waiver training and testing is tougher, but more to the point, you have to take the initial checkride, in the plane, this is where most of the failures happen. It's not a sim ride, where if you blow a part of it, you get up, get out of the box, get some coffee, come back...in the plane, failure means the ride is re scheduled...I know one guy who when through this process for three months...then the boss called me.

Bottom line, you not getting a 3000 hour SP Captain...typically the SP guys are ones that came out of Turboprops who have been flying single pilot in the soup for years, and moving up to SP jets is just another type...that's the difference...typically with the kids these days leaning on EFIS and Crew training, they don't move into SP Jets, it's the old timers that flew the junk and steam gauges, now the jet gear is 'kinda nice'.

So what I am trying to tell you is that if you want to go apples to apples, you need to put say a 6k hour SP captain in a Citation and two 3k pilots in a crew...now get your insurance numbers, the SP will probably be cheaper.

Now if you did want to make a horse race of it, and try to get a 3k pilot to pass the SP ride, and if he passed, his insurance would be high. I know a person who got his SP at 2000 hours, lotsa work and his insurance was like $85k a year, but he was a biz owner and had no professional experience as a pilot.

It's all about the pilot experience that determines the insurance rates, and bottom line, if the boss wants an SP pilot, he'll probably be buying some experience, and paying for it, but he'll also get a break on insurance, and the copilot cost.

No cheaper way of crewing a Citation then going Single pilot.