Boarding passengers

[Nicholas49]

Hi

I have a couple of questions about short-haul operations with quick turnarounds (although not exclusively).

The scenario is: passengers are sitting in the departure lounge and (those who are paying attention/interested) can see the aircraft outside the window being prepared for departure. All the arriving passengers have left the aircraft, one of the pilots is now doing the walk-around / aircraft is being re-fuelled / bags are being loaded / generally lots going on outside!

What I wondered is: who decides when it's time to load the SLF? Must the Commander authorise this?

Is it an item on a pre-departure check-list (i.e. you get to a point in your preparations where you now need / want (probably not the latter ;) ) them to board?

And how is the decision communicated to the people who check our passport/boarding card at the gate that they can initiate the boarding process? Is it done by radio or must someone come down from the aircraft to pass it on?

Thanks
Nick

[750XL]

The time to start boarding is a joint decision by the dispatcher, cabin manager and captain. For your normal holiday charter type flight, where I work at least we generally work off starting to board 40-45 minutes before departure to try and help minimise any boarding related delays.

Normally the dispatcher will tell the cabin crew what time they want to start boarding so it gives the crew some sort of idea as to how long they have to prepare the cabin and do security checks. Once the crew are ready they'll let the dispatcher know and normally boarding will commence. The cabin manager will also have to ask the capt if they are ok to start boarding, 99% of the time they'll say yes unless there is some sort of tech problem where boarding needs to be delayed. For example if you're changing the wheel on a 767 you don't want 326 people to jump onboard half way through the change.

It's also possible to board with an engineer on some airlines so the cabin manager will check with the engineer if it's okay to board and let the dispatcher know. The dispatcher will either walk to the gate or phone/radio the gate to let them know the aircraft is ready for boarding.

In short, it has to be a joint decision between the dispatcher, cabin manager and captain.

[frontcheck]

Some airlines use a "green light" system where automatic boarding commences at a predetermined time (unless told otherwise) according to aircraft type. This way all staff know what time to work to and cuts down the need for communication.

[Nicholas49]

Thanks for the replies.

So is the dispatcher the person you sometimes see board the aircraft to go onto the flight deck with some paperwork for the pilots / captain to sign?

I have a follow-up question, if I may. Are there any circumstances in which the captain would himself leave the aircraft and go to the departure gate to explain a delay / problem with the flight to passengers in the departure gate rather than communicate it via the dispatcher?

I guess they would need to be 'special circumstances' and I've certainly never experienced this, but could you give me an example of when you might do / have done this?

[Double Hydco]

Yes it is.

I guess you might go to the gate if you had a prolonged technical delay or cancellation?

I've never felt the need to do it. I would think it depends what kind of reception you'll get, and whether you speak the same lingo as the passengers?

DH

[750XL]

I've had it on a few rare occasions where the capt has come to the gate to speak to passengers but generally with the type of airlines / aircraft I dispatch, it isn't feasible. Depending on the capt, if you've had a prolonged delay with problem after problem they'll come down and face the passengers. If not that, when boarding finally starts they'll stand on the airbridge / steps and take some abuse from pax :p

[Nicholas49]

Thanks - that's interesting.

Yes, I imagine you might be less enthusiastic to do some public speaking at the gate late on a Sunday evening before a flight back from Ibiza / Amsterdam / other destinations that brings out the best of British than you would if it was before an early-morning hop across to Geneva on a flight full of business travellers...

[Davidsoffice]

I remember boarding a flight up one set of steps as the previous flight's pax were decending the other set! I'm guessing turnaround was about 20 mins, maybe less.
On a completely different circumstance I took the Malta Gozo helicopter service for a sight-seeing experience. It was a Mi-8. On landing at Gozo I was wanting to stay on for the return as I'd booked but was told I had to get off and go through the terminal. The pax for the next flight were already out at the aircraft so it leg it across the small pan, in through one door, leap over the now closed check-in desk and out of another door! Silly bureacrazy!

[750XL]

I remember boarding a flight up one set of steps as the previous flight's pax were decending the other set! I'm guessing turnaround was about 20 mins, maybe less.

Is that possible? Surely the cabin crew would need to complete their security checks before the new set of pax arrived, unless this was many tears ago :)?

[on time all the time]

hello,
One of the condition for boarding is the refuelling.
Some places/countries like the uk are happy to board while refuelling. Certain procedures have got to be followed and a drill is in place in case of pb. I don't know if all airlines allow boarding and refuelling at the same time but mine does.
The country/airport may not authorize it so even if the cabin is ready pax may have to wait until the refuelling is done. This happens on longer routes when the aircraft can't take the fuel for the return journey.
Some countries/airporst may authorize the boarding while refuelling providing the fire brigade has a fire engine positioned near the aircraft. There may be a fee for such service so a lot of airlines don't take that option.

[Nicholas49]

I've had it on a few rare occasions where the capt has come to the gate to speak to passengers but generally with the type of airlines / aircraft I dispatch, it isn't feasible.

Thinking about it, I guess if the aircraft is parked on a remote stand and the passengers need to be bussed from the gate to the aircraft, it is not going to be very practical for the captain to get to the gate, unlike a situation where it is just a short walk up the air-bridge.

[750XL]

The most likely scenario that I can think of / have handled is when the flight has been delayed and pax have started to kick off at the gate. Usually a quiet word from the captain to the pax will make them think twice, if they still want to go on holiday :ok:

[Northbeach]

Must the Commander authorise this?

Each airline is different. At our airline the lead “gate agent” has the authority to load the passengers as soon as the flight attendants are in position, if there is a crew change; or as soon as the last arriving passenger had disembarked and the cabin has been cleaned. The gate agent does not seek the commander’s authorization. In fact, the airline considers the jet under the control of the gate agent, not the Captain (Commander) while the jet is at the gate and the door(s) are open.



And how is the decision communicated to the people who check our passport/boarding card at the gate that they can initiate the boarding process?

The gate agent will come down and verify with the flight attendants that they are ready to have the passengers boarded. Since the gate agents initiate the boarding process, communicating between them usually happens face to face. They also have phone/wireless communication available to them as well.


So is the dispatcher the person you sometimes see board the aircraft to go onto the flight deck with some paperwork for the pilots / captain to sign?

In the U.S.A. the term “dispatcher” is not usually used for the person responsible for loading passengers at the gate or delivering paperwork. A “dispatcher” is a person who has to have the same medical license as the pilot, they have taken the equivalent of the ATP (Airline Transport Pilot) written examination. They hold a “Dispatchers” certificate issued by the Federal Aviation Administration. The dispatcher has equal authority with me, the Captain, for the purposes of flight planning and authorizing my flight. Here is a link to more information regarding the Airline Dispatcher profession: Home*-*dispatcher.org (http://www.dispatcher.org/#)

The Aircraft Dispatcher is a licensed airman certificated by the Federal Aviation Administration.

He/She has joint responsibility with the captain for the safety and operational control of flights under his/her guidance.

He/She authorizes, regulates and controls commercial airline flights according to government and company regulations to expedite and ensure safety of flight.

He/She is also responsible for economics, passenger service and operational control of day to day flight operations.


He/She analyzes and evaluates meteorological information to determine potential hazards to safety of flight and to select the most desirable and economic route of flight.

He/She computes the amount of fuel required for the safe completion of flight according to type of aircraft, distance of flight, maintenance limitations, weather conditions and minimum fuel requirements prescribed by federal aviation regulations.

He/She prepares flight plans containing information such as maximum allowable takeoff and landing weights, weather reports, field conditions, NOTAMS and many other informational components required for the safe completion of flight.

He/She prepares and signs the dispatch release which is the legal document providing authorization for a flight to depart.

He/She delays or cancels flights if unsafe conditions threaten the safety of his/her aircraft or passengers.

He/She monitors weather conditions, aircraft position reports, and aeronautical navigation charts to evaluate the progress of flight.

He/She updates the pilot in command of significant changes to weather or flight plan and recommends flight plan alternates, such as changing course, altitude and, if required, enroute landings in the interest of safety and economy.

He/She originates and disseminates flight information to others in his/her company including stations and reservations. This is the source of information provided to the traveling public.

He/She has undergone extensive training to have earned the coveted Aircraft Dispatcher's certificate having taken and passed both an extensive oral examination and the comprehensive Dispatch ADX test, administered by the Federal Aviation Administration. These tests are equivalent to the same Air Transport Pilot (ATP) written and oral examinations that an airline captain must successfully complete.

He/She participates in frequent and detailed recurrent training courses covering aircraft systems, company operations policy, meteorology and Federal Air Regulations as required by the FAA.

I have a follow-up question, if I may. Are there any circumstances in which the captain would himself leave the aircraft and go to the departure gate to explain a delay / problem with the flight to passengers in the departure gate rather than communicate it via the dispatcher?

Absolutely yes, airline pilots are just people; we come in virtually every variety. Some pilots absolutely hate public speaking and are terrified at the thought of having to address a gathering of delayed passengers. Others of us just can’t keep our mouths shut. Sometimes I offer to speak to the passengers at the gate, but since the gate agent has operational control of the jet I would seek their permission prior to addressing the passengers. Most of the time they are grateful for my efforts; at other times they have the situation firmly under control and I am not needed.

I guess they would need to be 'special circumstances' and I've certainly never experienced this done this?, but could you give me an example of when you might done this

I was in Washington DC and we took a delay. On the passenger list was one U.S. Senator, one Congressman, two State Governors along with some staff and security and many other of our “elite” travel members. The gate agent was under a lot of stress. To try and alleviate the tension, resulting from the delay, I went out to address the passengers. The gate agent was grateful for the help. I informed them of the cause of the delay (computer software failure), what was being done to address the specific problem (avionics technician addressing the failure), what I believed would be the eventual outcome (in this case repaired and on our way), and when they could expect a resolution or further information (about an hour delay). Since I was using the public address system to communicate with them I offered to stay and speak to anyone personally one on one if they had any further questions.

[kazzie]

You will find some LCC's will have passengers ready at the gate, boarding cards pulled, and put into a pre-boarding lounge before the aircraft has even arrived on stand.

Or if a pre-boarding lounge is not available. Agents will check boarding cards / ID's and pull them, As they leave they gate they just show up their pulled boarding cards (No ID's as its been checked already) and walk straight out.

Turn around's can be very very tight sometimes, gate staff like to give themselves a head start to minimize boarding delays and so they can start the offload procedure quicker.

As said before, every airline is different. All sorts of procedures are in place.

[thrubwell]

last time i flew on Ryanair from BFS to BRS a year or so ago, they had us queueing up at the gate before the inbound flight had even landed, let alone parked at the gate!

[dpconlan2011]

Yes Ryanair certainly are in a league of their own!

[kazzie]

And in most cases, From what I have seen, Some FR passengers are queuing before staff even appear at the gate http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/tongue.gif

ut regarding the calling of flights before the plane has landed. It is not only Ryanair that have this system, As said, Tight turn arounds mean that Airlines and handling agents have to be 1 step ahead to be able to achieve an on time departure.

[750XL]

It's a lot quicker to pull all the passengers boarding cards before boarding starts and minimises and possibility of a delay. For airlines like Ryanair where the dispatcher has to do the loadsheet, which cannot be completed until boarding has finished, if all the passengers are in a holding pen then 10mins or so before departure you can stop boarding and have an exact number of passengers for your loadsheet. Where I work there is no 'holding pens' but I know myself and other people who will board the passengers and just put a barrier across the aircraft door until the crew are ready for passengers (on an airbridge, this is).

[wowzz]

Ground staff at MJV, have pax checked through the gate and waiting outside to board, prior to the incoming pax even disembarking. Not too bad in the summer, but not so pleasant if it is raining in the winter.