Prestige Jet- All Merged Threads

[EX TERMINATOR]

Dear All,
As with any other company that has potential employment opportunities, it pays to find out for sure what the real picture of the company is. In the case of Prestige Jet, all must have heard good as well as bad things about this company. For the sake of all the decent and innocent people, do not fall into the same trap as I did. THINK DEEP BEFORE YOU LEAP. Do not attempt joining Prestige Jet unless you are absolutely sure what the company is like from the inside. Do not believe or take for granted what you have been hearing or reading about this company, whether good or bad. After all, it is your family's and your future that you would be putting at stake.
May I also remind all that the level of decency and professionalism has to be observed and maintained in this respectable forum. I know that some participants do tend to struggle when it comes to selecting the right phraseology and vocabulary, but this is not what I am exactly referring to. Even if someone's language is poor, they can still be polite, decent and tactful in their exchange of thoughts and ideas. Not in any instant should we lose focus simply because we are trapped or overwhelmed by the painful truth, and start losing control over our vocabulary.
I hereby wish everybody luck and hope that the truth will reach all who deserve the truth to reach them.

[S.F.L.Y]

Thank you for this wise and polite introduction. Few days ago a participant of this forum wanted to show me how well this company was doing as a previous thread was seriously compromising Prestige Jet. This gentleman invited me to come to Abu Dhabi and see by myself during a visit of the company. I accepted his invitation and gave him my name and phone number to schedule something with him. Since the previous thread has been closed, I didn't hear any news from him. I would really have appreciated that he would come back to me as fast as he was replying to each post attacking his company. I'm still open to his invitation and look forward to hear from him as I would be interested in checking some rumors related to the grounding of some of their aircrafts.

[MotoMoto]

Could someone please tell me if it is true that several of Prestige Jet's aircraft have been grounded by the GCAA due to maintenance issues?

There are a lot of rumors on this company not being able to pay bills and that some aircraft being tried to been taken back by leasing companies for nonpayment.

Maintenance is another major issue for this company or so I have heard. A lot of non-licensed mechanics and false logbooks entries, releases, etc.

Can someone who is in the know of this company please confirm this about several of their aircraft being grounded regarding the maintenance issues.

Thanks for the info.

MotoMoto

[MotoMoto]

Can someone who has had either good or bad experience with this company care to elaborate on this.

I am thinking about joining this company on a CJ that they have in the middle east.

Is this company worth getting into or will it just be a nightmare from the beginning?

Thanks for the input and comments

MotoMoto

[S.F.L.Y]

Unfortunately no visit until now... I've done my part providing my personal details to these gentlemen and guess it's now there call to move forward with a visit.

If you want to fly on a CJ try with Elite, I think they are much more serious and professional. I won't elaborate on Prestige as it may bring back the whole bunch of propaganda boys but I don't really think you want to join them. Wether you consider Prestige or Gulfjet the roots are the same and sadly their MDs or ex-MDs are leading both companies into the same direction. This is what happen when managers are not properly screened. That's sad for the employees who will have to pay the price for "inappropriate" managers.

[EX TERMINATOR]

Dear S.F.L.Y,
Indeed, this is what happens to companies and employees with unscreened managers. In the case of PJ, the best is yet to come. I join you and all who sympathize with the decent and innocent employees.

[NZ X man]

I know of one pilot who works for them and he advised me that they did have maintenance issues with their aircraft, so you could be right.

[EX TERMINATOR]

Dear All,
It would not surprise me in the least to find most, if not all of their aircraft grounded. Beside the maintenance issues, there are also other legal issues. They have at least four N registered aircraft under their management which they have been operating commercially and lying to the GCAA and FAA that they were being used solely for the owners private flights. There are also issues relating to the ops department where pilots have been pressured into exceeding their limitations and flying without proper validations, or expired validations and/or current training.

[S.F.L.Y]

The sooner the batch of unprofessional companies will be gone, the better it will be for the rest of the industry as it should hopefully free some room to work and all of this comes from badly screened unscrupulous managers who used to lie on their personal experience and qualifications in order to get their position. Shame on them as they knew exactly what they were doing each time they crossed the legal lines.

[Fossil1]

simple Q
can you list the company you joined ,period, and reason you left before you joining PJ.

[Fossil1]

You will have to think multiple times before even attempting to approach or write about prestige . Give yourself a chance to thoroughly and fully experience with aviation world.
Many losers are intentionally open-ended and refuse to resolve their internal tensions.
FYI Prestige not need to defend to looser or homeless PPL ,so check where you stand and who you are and what you did wrong ,and why you are useless
if you are decent man face these facts .
poor you

[fjordviking]

Fossil1, your point being?????
Did not understand a single sentence of your post.
A case of "drink and type" I suppose.

fjordviking

[StressFree]

I agree - what the hell is Fossil on about............:confused:

[noflare]

Wow! I hope he doesnt fly aircraft :eek:

[Eng AW139]

Sounds like a BABEL fish translation...

[el sol]

another level six at it's best and location - US ? I think not............

I do think you are doing a babelfish a dis-service !

[Fossil1]

welcome to my real word Mr.Frog:eek:

[Fossil1]

guess what am flying..... M F:confused:

[S.F.L.Y]

Each time a new topic is launched about Prestige we see new joiners jumping into the discussion, always with the same weird English... that doesn't give a very good image for the company...

[Tayar]

SFLY you didnt know anything abuot Prestige Jet. This is good operator in the Middle East. We have good life here and fly well mantenance aircrat. You want to come to Prestige and cannot pass a fliyng test. You cannot is good pilot, come and see why Prestige Jet are the best fo Middle East and soon the world. We is groing very much and will continue to grow with the crisis in the financial. Yes you say is new each time you say new post, but the truth is that pilots for Prestige is pride to work for that company. We will defence Prestige with my life if we have to. You expat only come here for money and doesn't care about culture or any regard for personal. So doesn't say what you say and come here to say what you say.

Prestige Jet have the goodest mantenance man in the middle east. We have company to fix equipment and other operator's come to us for fix his airplane. So do not come and say bul**** and say this crap you want to say and come and say that what you say all the time. We tired at Prestige of all people to come and say any eubish the say and do not have facts for hat they say all the time. Do not come and wast our precios time and waste our time here with rubish post.

[Tayar]

SFLY and Termintor, you is full of crap for talking like these for Prestige Jet. You go to back to your country and talk bad rubish about your company you work for in your country.

Prestige Jet is good operator who take well care of his employers. All expats come to Middle East and want money money. You only doesnt care about the operator you works for. You only want the money at the end of the 30 day. you doesnt deserve to come and fly for best middle east company. Prestige Jet have very hard selection proces and only got the most good pilot to fly his airplanes.

Expats who talk rubish about Prestige Jet only wants to fly there and not get choose. We have good mantenance aircraft and have one company t do the mantanence with good mantenance man. You do not talk about Prestige that the plane is good o bad. Just say the facts and not the rubish. If we had bad mantenance we not aprove for to fly with OAC.

So all you who came to talk rubish all the time only to come and say what you want DONT... you will not say that rubish anymore and go away with it. We are not tolerate thi rubish until more.

[MotoMoto]

This last post lets you know what kind of people they hire at Prestige Jet. This is Prestige Jet's talent at its best. I especially like his Level 6 English which makes you wonder how these pilots are able to go for training and pass.

TAYAR, like you say that all expat pilots talk "rubish", but if you can show otherwise, don't say that Prestige has good maintenance, look at the way I spelled the word MAINTENANCE. Everyone knows that Prestige utilizes non-certified mechanics and play around with the log books to make it seem "legal".

Unfortunately it will take a serious mishap or accident where innocent people are paying a lot of money to get a "Well Inspected" and in flyable condition aircraft and once again they are lied to. It is a shame that authorities are so cheap on this side of the world and can be bought so easily. If Prestige Jet has a real inspection, ALL of their aircraft would be grounded at once and for all.

[bflyer]

To Tayar

I think that SFLY and terminator were talking in a thoroughly professional and RESPECTABLE manner voicing concerns and/or dislikes about the company in question unlike what you posted, which is neither professional nor polite.
PJ's HARD selection PROCESS obviously does not extend to English language skills judging by your post
Expats AND local pilots do want to get the paycheck at the end of the month..please don't tell me that you work for free
For your next posts..if any, i urge you to act in a manner befitting a professional TAYAR ( i.e pilot for the uninitiated amongst you ) since your post is anything but.
p.s in your effort defend your company image, you achieved exactly the
opposite
pp.s i am a local ( i.e Arab ) pilot flying for my country's national carrier
not in the gulf region

[Tayar]

Yes Prestige have hard selection process, that is we are the best in the industry. So dont say rubish like you say.

Everyone who is comeing to Prestige can send message and I tell you the truth. Everyone else want to say rubish about Prestige. We hire only best in industry, that is why were in the best indstry. Why? We are good and have best talent of all area.

Prstige Jet expanding to the rest of the world with more office. We have over 200 million in the bank for buying more aircraft and more office. All companys closing down like Gulf Jet but we still in busines. So dont say the rubish you say, OK.

[Tayar]

MotoMoto,

Prestige Jet only hire qalify people. You probably is gelous about not being able to come in Prestige jet for work. We have hard proces for selection. Only the best come to Prestige. So dont say the rubish you say about Prestige Jet. You can semd mesage to me and I will tell you facts about Prestige Jet.

The mantenance is best in middle east. We have company to do mantenance for other company with good man working there and they have good job so dont say the rubish abotu we is going to crash.

We keeps all logbooks in safe place all time. The mantenance man always check airplane for errors and fix if they have. So dont say rubish about the mantenance books is not good. OK.

Everyone is only gelous of Prestige Jet and wants to come here but we have hard selection proces to select only qalified people. So if you thinks to come to the best Prestige Jet is the best because we are the best in the middle east and the world we have more offices than Elite, Empire, and have over 200 million in the bank for continue to have more office.

All everyone saying about Prestige Jet is RUBISH. We is a solid company to working for.

[S.F.L.Y]

Tayar you are doing a good job to give a very bad image of Prestige and I'm sure you know it. In fact they don't need your "help" to have problems so please no need to do too much as it is halam.

[oscarlimatango]

Your passion and love for prestige is well observed. However, it would be in your own best interest and the also the company's that you keep information such as the amount of money in your company's account confidential. And judging by your age, you seem to be a well experienced person with an understanding of these matters.

Indeed if you would like to protect prestige, an insightful essay about how the company recruits its pilots and maintenance personnel would be a good start. I am pretty sure that any one that is educated that reads these forums would be more interested in an insightful article rather then the scandalous mudslinging that is happening.

[Vertigo_FDS]

''...that is why were in the best indstry''

Really didn't want to get on the bandwagon here - just too easy. BUT - to make claims like this you surely must be able to back it with some proof?

The other operators in the region might just take that as either naive or arrogant - either way, you're not helping your cause.

I suggest laying this all to rest and getting back to work.

Vert

PS. Nobody gives a crap about your supposed bank balance. Maybe check with your employers about releasing that kind of information next time. :=

[Paradise Lost]

I suggest laying this all to rest and getting back to work.
.

You are such a spoilsport Vert.....that Mr T. is priceless, and saying it is "-just too easy" belittles his finest attempts to refute the "rubish" that is being slung at his company!

[jordan pilot]

tayar good try :ok:to give us a bad picture of arabic pilots and to prestige company ,just to inform every body this guy name tayar not arabic and hes fierd from this company ,I know this guy very well.:=

[NZ X man]

I wondered if perhaps TAYAR WAS A FAKE, AN ACTOR, STIRRING UP THE FLIES. How could someone with such a poor control of the written English language, how could this same individual work ATC, ground control, or tower with out a reprimand or have the captain take over so that they could keep on schedule. I know two captains working for Prestige, and the word is "caution" I have never met an Arab pilot with such a ridiculous grasp of the English language. Got to be a farce.

[EX TERMINATOR]

Dear All,
May I remind you, especially those who seem to have resorted to using the foul language and the substandard English, that we really need to keep the dialogue professional. This means clean, meaningful and for a good purpose.
I must at this point commend the two Arab pilots and the third pilot from an Arab origin (American Arab) who are working for Prestige, for their professional airmanship. However, we should never generalize that all Arab pilots are professionals, nor that all American pilots (for instance) are otherwise, and are hungry for money, etc..
During my service at PJ, I met with American pilots who are real gentelemen and very good pilots. I wish them every success in their career.
The real issue, is whether good or bad , professional or otherwise most of those working for PJ belong to one of the following categories:

A category that does not really know what they are in for in such a deceitful organization (headed by a master of corruption) where there will come a day when they will be struck by the truth.
A category that has discovered the truth, wholly or partially but are stuck with bonds, or other commitments such as kids at schools, etc. and can not act for the time being.
I would also add a category that involves one person only due to his unique situation, and that is the owner of the company, who thought he was entring a partnership with a good person like himself, and lately discovered the truth at this stage where he can not decide whether it is a non return point, or a recoverable one. Time will show the course of action on his part where he will either pull out or try to mend what the CEO has damaged.No matter what happens, I wish all the good people at PJ the best of luck.

[prafn]

Good grief people! Can we not just get some relevant facts about the company without all this mud slinging :ugh:

[Paradise Lost]

Good grief people! Can we not just get some relevant facts about the company without all this mud slinging

Don't be ridiculous, of course we can't.... our buddy Tayar is in control...?

[B737best]

I dont know one employee that dont want to leave this company,dispatcher,maintenance,cabin crew are leaving one after the other,pilots same thing,4-5 resigns this year and way more to come.The deeb family is about to taste the meaning of competition and free market.Most unorganized company..been there for few month,its complete disaster of illegal manner.Heard pilots flying unqualified,the company does everything wrong.
Without maintenance,dispatcher,cabin crew and pilots this company will have shut down already 5 times.they have no idea how to run a business.
STAY FAR AWAY FROM THEM.

[EX TERMINATOR]

Dear B737,
TRUTH is always painful to the weak and shaky. In the case of PJ management, it is weak, shaky and corrupt. This additional element will make the TRUTH burn them, not only cause them pain.
Speaking of the TRUTH, all the facts uncovered about PJ management with all the violations and corrupt practices still continue. They are even worsening. Every decent employee is advised to think seriously and clearly, and make up his/her mind regarding the fate of his/her employment at this corrupt and polluted establishment before it is too late.
Best of luck to all the good people at PJ.

[NZ X man]

What b737best is basically correct. I did a contract this year for them for 6 weeks, it was cut short three weeks when a FA filed a complaint about being " treated badly". The same flight attendant had stolen a tip and was suspected to have done this type of thing in the past. She was caught red handed. The company is totally un-organized, owes money all over the place, does not honor duty times or contracts. I think it is just a matter of time and they will head the same direction as Bexair. I also understand that prior to October last year, they were doing alright, and most of the tech crew were happy, but typical, allowed a group of foreign accountants in to run the show, with NO aviation background, and it started going south, the same thing Bexair did.

You would want to talk to someone else in the organization currently before signing up with these guys. And by the way, I did not run accross anyone who's command of the english language is as bad as Tayar, so I suspect this individual is perhaps an actor/Used car salesman/CEO.
Chchchcheeerrss

[NoJoke]

Strange person alert. :}

[ihsan.deeb]

Dear All,

I would like to thank everyone for their posts in threads related to Prestige Jet. and i would like to invite everyone to write to me and get a clear picture about prestige jet.

We are in the market, despite all of the roumers and bad mouthing said about prestige jet and the deeb family ( prestige jet and the DEEB family ) are still alive, and again these posts are so important to us as its more than a marketing campaign for us, and through this forum we are getting a lot of resumes and proffisional people are joining us.

by logic if we are bad company, bad payers, bad management the company wouldn't remain till now.

for any questions about prestige, please dont hesitate to contact me and even you are welcome for a visit to our company.

regards,

Ihsan Deeb

[justintime5]

Dear Ihsan Deeb,

It is clear to all of us that you just have no idea how this World Works. Everyone knows about anything that happens in the industry and it dose not matter how many times you try to make a fool of yourself saying otherwise.

I am not going to go into if you are a good company or not, if you are corrupt or not, nor wish that things go wrong for you as if it goes bad for you it goes very bad for all that we live from this business. What I am going to tell you and is just because its good for you is the following:

1- Don’t blame other people about the chaos you have in your organisation.
2- Listen to those who have been working for you so long and are still working hard, as you know, withstanding completely unfair behaviour from you and your brother. They are not against you they are in the same boat.
3- Going into technical advice let your crews carry Cash and visas like the rest of the industry and trust your pilots. If you trust your pilots the life of your best clients believe me they can handle a few bills.
4- Pay in time and make people respect your name and the companies name.
5- Respect and good words work a LOT better.

If you listen to this advise and trust those that know what they are doing and have spent so much time, worries and even tears for a company that its not even theirs you could save 1 million dollars a year.
YES 1 MILLION DOLLARS A YEAR you read well.

You are paying hundreds of thousands of dollars for services that are not needed if your crews have a simple valid credit card. This would also reduce 90% of the internal caos in the operation. Fuel you are paying is just like buying liquid gold for the engines!! And more, and more, and more.

My boss is a man that barely knows how to read or write and has made millions and respected by millions of people. He just knows how to listen and trusts his team. I know that you have had in your organisation many people trying to steal money. Just to many controllers, advisors, good friends of your partners etc but they don’t know the business. Listen to those how have demonstrated day after day that they support you and that your brother only starts shouting at them as soon as anything goes a “wrong” (normally something created by him as he thinks the world is waiting for you to fly).

You can still change things but don’t destroy those trying to help you by mistreating them, destroying your reputation buy not having a word that any man has, and not paying your people and those that feel Prestige like part of their family, more than you in fact.

Don’t try to guess who I am I’m Mat Gunning nothing to do with you but I have very good friends working for you and I have seen them CRY literally due to the frustration of not being able to get things right just because of you and your brothers.

Please change and make a company that people can only talk wonders.

Hope the best for you and OUR industry. :ok:

[S.F.L.Y]

Due to the frustration of not being able to get things right just because of you and your brothers.

Your advices might be right, but won't help without getting a proper understanding of aviation operations. It seems to be the root of many mismanagement situations in the region.

[NZ X man]

Matt
Good thread, sounds exactly like it is. I doubt they wil listen, but then again YOU NEVER KNOW.

X man

[S.F.L.Y]

Can you please elaborate on this one? Just being curious...

[onhmss]

I wonder how long the minor exodus from IWA will spend with this lot ? My money says a month or two max.....

Good luck T & S, you're going to need it !

sfly, if you have to ask the question, you wouldn't understand the answer.

[S.F.L.Y]

sfly, if you have to ask the question, you wouldn't understand the answer.

Then can't you explain it to me? I'll buy you a coffee :}

[vector3]

Can anyone who works for pj tell us what the salary is for cc and how many hours they fly per month average?

[SIERRA ECHO XRAY]

With N tails sounds to me like Mr. Jones trying to make a quick buck in some probably corrupt country....avoid such outfits like the plague

[laurenceof]

How are the imports from istithmar coping with the smoke and mirrors ??
Anybody know ?
WTF is going on with this company and is the wasta so strong as to keep the gcaa at bay ?

[buzz light]

Tayar/Fossil - Beware they walk among us !!

[oscarlimatango]

Why all the hating exterminator, by reading your post and ur nick, i feel like you are out to destroy PJ.

But if what u say is true! ppl better watch out since there is no protection for the working class around here!

[Fat Clemenza]

A question remains though.

What is the company owner doing???? Isn't he aware of anything?????:confused:

[TRITAR500]

I work for PJ and everything he said is true, many foreigners’ pilots are leaving; few Spanish will stay because they are dreamers.:{
A new team try to make it good but I don’t think the 3 brothers will give them the money and power to achieve it.
Actually everything is on cash pay, no more credit, and for the crew salaries are pay late and per diem have not been paid since 4 months.:mad:
But for the pilots who are looking for slaving and exhausting job, PJ will recruit soon because their pilots are leaving to better sky.
:ugh:

[Fat Clemenza]

thankx Tristar but it doesn't answer the question, what the**** is the owner doing?

[TRITAR500]

What is said about the brothers is true, they did the same thing with Bexair.

[EX TERMINATOR]

To the owner of PJ ,the company is a small investment that is peanuts compared to his other businesses. Moreover, the real truth about his relationship with PJ CEO is one of a great disappointment after some facts came to the surface. But much grounds had already been covered to a point of no return. The Deebs have twisted his arm (a break away would be too painful and full of losses). So a long term recovery has been the strategy of the owner with chances given to the Deebs to re course, and repair the damage. The poor thing still has faith in them. Besides, he knows nothing about aviation to the extent that he thinks that the Deebs do!!

[Fat Clemenza]

Is it true that they don't even have money to pay for their fuel or hotels? If that's the case, how can he hope to recover his company??

[oscarlimatango]

that sounds real dirty, but hey that is how it works out here! if you aint on your toes better be ready to get beat!
"vaasta mal fog al kanoon" was what i heard when i was a kid and i still adher to that!

[TRITAR500]

Now every payment is cash for fuel & hotels (no more credit). They have decided the new contract is 2 months ON 1month OFF, crew are on duty 60 days in a row and doing between 60 to 100H flight hours in 30 days.:ugh::D

[marana]

Exterminator, your post "Exacty what they did to AW"..

Sounds to me like AW should have had their paperwork up to snuff in the first place. Then the GCAA wouldn't have any questions about who had operational control of the aircraft and the resulting "violations." Maybe AW was guilting of trying to make a quick buck too.

[NZ X man]

The schedule was always 60 on 30 off, they had some idiot who tried to change that, and when the tech crews started walking away from the aircraft, the decided to go back to what had been. Another ME knee jerk idiot move that only cost them more money and cost them a huge loss of face. I feel for the guys that are hanging on, it has got to be similar to the Titanic after hitting the Ice Burg. Good Luck

[moufflon]

Hi folks
Would be interested to know which branch of PJ all this refers to- all of them? A friend of mine has been approached in BAH- what's the story there- same horror stories as I've read on this thread?

Appreciate any insights!

Thx

[EX TERMINATOR]

Dear Marana,
Relations between the two companies were more complicated than what an outsider knows. I am not trying to defend AW but the truth is that PJ played the "Mr. Savier", and "Mr. Knows-it-all" on AW in the UAE. They told them stories about their capabilities and what would work and what would not in the area. Like any other foreign company/investor in the UAE, AW went by all that was said by PJ(a native UAE company with the wasta and power in the area). This turned out to be a mine field!

[NZ X man]

I flew with that pilot on an N registered aircraft, I was under the impression he had an FAA license, great guy too. He regretted joining them and leaving Bahrain.

[Fat Clemenza]

this company seems to be on the brink of collapse.

Blacklisted by jetaviation worldwide, owing 1.2M to embraer for their lineage maintneance, one legacy and one sovereign are back on the lease market, $200k is owed to the CJ2 owner, catering is no longer on credit, that's without even counting all unpaid salaries and per diems. Heard their crews haven't received their per diems for the past six months

3 captains won their cases at the labor board for breach of contract and word on the street is they were begging them to come back to work after terminating them...

[S.F.L.Y]

The top management made a sensible decision? I thought the sensible decision would be to change the top management...

[hptcc]

I think the top management are finaly listening to some of their trusted employees. Not all of the employees - just the ones who know what they are on about...

[Fat Clemenza]

That's good news. With all the pending lawsuits and unpaid bills, people on the other hand of the line will be happy to hear it:suspect:

By the way, how come their N registered Sovereigns and CJ2 are still doing illegal charter work without anyone complaining?

[asdf1234]

BeeBop - are the aircraft being advertised anywhere? What happened to the "saviour investor" and wages about to be paid? The plot thickens...

[falconsprit]

Hey, I'm thinking to apply there at PJ, so I thought to drop a word, to know if it worth the move or what? My friend asked to do so,whom works there and said it is ok...
I'm new to the whole experience of working outside my country..:O
any inputs would be appreciated.. Many thanks in advance.

Falconsprit

[Fat Clemenza]

Been flying in the region long enough and met most of their crews, if u wann be treated like sh!t, you should apply there

[asdf1234]

Thanks Beebop and well spotted. Does anyone have news on the supposed saviour/investor or is this just another rumour being peddled for the outside world?

[KC130desertflyer]

For those of you that tune in to the rants here on Prestige Jet...... please note that I am not Fat Clemenza and if I had a complaint about my current employer or former employer I would have way more class then to bash them on a public forum. That being said anyone that knows me knows I come to you face to face with either praise or insult, so if you are worried that I am Fat Clemenza and saying things about you or the company I am not and will not do it in this forum, you will know when I am upset or happy as I will let you know in person.

[Fat Clemenza]

Man get your ignorant cocky doodoo filled nose and give lessons elsewhere, I know most of your pilots and ground staff in that dumpster u call prestige to just just open dozens of pages about your illegal practices from flight operations to staff treatment. There's no need to work there to know it and it's a secret to no one in this forum or any other place.

And don't even talk about class, please don't, you're just giving the boot to be hit in the arse with. I did not open this 5 page thread about prestige sh!t, just try to wonder why people got so much to say:E

[asdf1234]

Poor practices aside - is the company going down or has a "white knight" stepped in?

[Fat Clemenza]

According to some Legacy staff

2 aircraft for lease
5 labour cases in court
1 lawsuit for aircraft reposession
9 grounded pilots
Bahrain base being shutdown, unpaid salaries for november in abu dhabi and bahrain
One investor supposedly should be the savior, otherwise word on the accouting street the company will go belly up in not too long...

Wish the best for everyone and to jump ship on time

[KC130desertflyer]

Well Fat Clemenza if you know most of our pilots then you may even know me but tell you what.......... bring your boot on and see if you can put it there......cause I will meet you anytime anywhere in the middle east and give you your shot...... so that you know I am serious ask the pilots you do know if Juston Clement takes crap from punks like you. So dude bring it one of us will get our behind spanked but you will have it to do as I will not take your boorish crap!

[Fat Clemenza]

your brave little boy's pride got hurt? souds like a teenager trying to prove himself but again sonny, just try to wonder why such a page exists about ur prestigious sht...

[KC130desertflyer]

posting anonymously is cowardly, if you have something to say to someone then say it to their face. I do not think that you got my point. It was not about P J it was about if you work for someone you should have the guts and integrity to voice your oppinion to them directly not anonymously on a public forum. As for my first post it was done to clear the air that I am not you. the second post was in response to your childish comments and offering you the opportunity to discuss it in person. Semper Fi Juston Clement

[Fat Clemenza]

In case you think I work fr them, you must be out your mind. I did consider it about a year ago and thank God I never bought your DO's bs about fair treatment and rapid upgrades to bigger aircraft, and I know I'm not the only one in this case

Just read back the last couple of pages and try to figure if your employer gives a ****, but I guess your butt kissing attitude tells a lot. What are you trying to prove? That you're a decent employee who even when they treat u like sht?:D

Anyways, just try to be helpful to others and share any inside information you may have to others on this forum so they know before they sign or even apply...

[asdf1234]

KC130 - if you are still working (and getting paid?) by PJ why don't you offer up the "good news"?

Is there an investor about to step in or is PJ doomed?

Given that Fat Clemenza has the info that the aircraft are up for sale/lease, the staff are unpaid, at least one base is closing etc... you'd have to admit the outlook looks bleak.

I'm all for employee loyalty but if the s**t is about to be flung all over the wall surely best to give advance warning? Obviously if you are outside the loop then you can't comment....

[NZ X man]

Fat Clemenza

I think you have gotten a bit off subject, which it seems a lot of people have in relationship to PJ. There is enough info on this and other web sites, that anybody who would entertain the idea of signing up with PJ would have enough information to make their OWN DECISION about the company. I knew they were having problems when I did a short contract this yea,r for PJ. but I wanted to see it first hand. There are guys who are perhaps trying to make the best of what they have with PJ, whilst they look for something better, and I have to applaud this gesture. PJ is not easy to work for, and the owners and some management staff are to blame for this.

CHeers

[EX TERMINATOR]

Dear KC130DESERTFLYER, Fat Clemenza and the rest,
I do agree that there is a drift from the core issue, being the truth about PJ and what the existing employment conditions are like there. After all, our aim is to let the truth be known to those who do not know it or perhaps know a part of it. This is only fair whether it is for the purpose of those attempting to work for PJ, or those still being cheated by the management. I happen to personally know Fat Clemenza and KC130Desretflyer. Both are typical foreign employees who have been seeking better opporunities for themselves, and in pusuing this they have both been working hard. It is OK to have different points of view, and even argue, but I hate to lose any of them in the pursuit of the main course of our core issue. You both have valuable information. Please. let us use it to save the rest. It is for valuable inputs in this forum that we have succeeded in seeing less of the low class comments and misleading information by the Deeb's. Haven't you noticed that Faris Deeb (DUBAI981) and his middle brother Ihsan Deeb have been made speechless and been swallowing their tongues for quite sometime? Truth must have been rather painful for them. This, together with the fact that they had no arguments or points to use in order to defend their collapsing empire, made others advise them not to show themselves up by trying to respond to the numerous well delivered inputs by professionals and caring individuals.
I do hope that the individual, who is still seeking information as he contemplates joining PJ, will read the various relevant threads carefully and do his research well before making any decision.
Finally, I do agree with Fat Clemenza that the "White Knight" would only be able to save this company by getting rid of the Deeb's. Then, and only then would there be hope for a better future for the decent and honest employees who deserve better chances.
Finally, honesty and decency shall live and prevail even if after a long struggle with the evil.

[hptcc]

The fact of the matter is that the aircraft are still flying and indeed the employees are still getting paid albeit a few weeks late. Lets take a look at the facts - PJ is still the biggest operator in the Middle East. Fact is that they have not laid off any staff (something they could do with a drop of a hat as there is a lot of 'dead wood' in the company). Fact is that they are restructuring. Fact is that they do look after the loyal ones who have stayed with them through these desperare times. Fact is that there will always be disgrunteted staff who dont have the balls to voice their opinion to senior management, but rather take the cowardly act of sounding really macho on a public forum - wimps. Quite simply if you dont like it at PJ then leave! You will not be missed. To the defence of senior management they, just like the rest of us, are trying to push the airline through a pretty bitter economic downturn - they/we will march on regardless.....watch this space. To those bitter sweet critiques - big brother is watching. If you dont like it here then FOXTROT OSCAR...!!!

[TRITAR500]

AOc renew on hold! no aircrafts cannot fly, company on hold:ugh:

[EX TERMINATOR]

This is a bit surprising!! I wonder why the "WASTA" is not working this time! or may be it will, to save the Deebs just one more time yet!!

[v1abort]

pj is basically the same as any other operator in the gulf. just bigger and draws more attention.
where do you work that will run to your plane and fix any problem when you are out of base or near a mx center. depending on what equipment you fly there probably isn't a mx center available anywhere close. why gnd a perfectly flyable plane so everyone can do some paperwork.
this is on demand corporate aviation and the goal is to get the pax where they want to go. and this is the ME forum so if you have worked here for any length of time you will know things don't work the same as other regions. it doesn't make it right but its a fact. and all us expats are here at our own doing for our own reasons.
i worked there and yes it wasn't the smoothest operation at times but i got all the money they owed me. had all my permits and airline tickets home for time off. and never had a gun to my head to do anything unsafe or illigal. any competant pilot will do what is safe and right.
if the authorities don't enforce the rules then i am sure any operator will exploit to the fullest to keep flying and making money. times are tough (Dubai?).
sorry if things didn't work out for some of you at PJ but like it has been said on the thread - if you don't like it then stay away. look to the local authorities to do the needful. beyond that have faith that the pilot group will fly responsibly. realistically what more can we do?

[EX TERMINATOR]

Dear V1 ABORT,
You have written "this is on demand corporate aviation and the goal is to get the pax where they want to go" I would add: "safely" which I am sure you consider as a given rule so it goes without saying! But the fact of the matter is that even the best pilots at PJ would never find out the real truth about what the maintenance crew had been up to. It is only natural for a pilot to report defects upon arrival to the maintenance crew. Beyond this point, all what the flight crew would be interested in, is to see their plane "ready" and "clear" to fly. The details of what has been going on in the hanagar or on the ramp (even at the home base) should be a cause of utmost concern (eg: Unqualified, and unauthorized maint. personnel with no type rating trying to fix flight control defects). Yet this is one area of concern regarding the safety violations. There are lots of other real examples. The whole point is that the senior management is aware of these safety violations, and it has not been a real issue to be concerned about like timeliness for instance, where the Deebs (senior management) treated as a top priority issue.
What remains is for us is to hope that things would improve somehow so that your flying is safe!

[hptcc]

Dear Ex-Terminator, I have had a good look through the previous pages in this thread and it now seems painfully obvious to me that your vendeta is against the top management of the company and the only you can get them back is by attacking the company in which ever way you can. OK so what if PJ did get their AOC by way of the 'wasta', so what, who cares. I have worked around the world and I have seen AOC's granted to Operators because of bribes, because of friends who are in high places, because the applicant shaggeg the decision maker in the relevant CAA. This is no different than having the 'wasta'. Now on your heartfelt subject of maintenance - it is inherant in the Coperate Jet industry worldwide for maintenance practices and procedures to be stretched to the limits. The fact is that PJ do indeed send their aircraft to very very reputable maintenance providers in Europe (UK, Germany, France etc etc) for their scheduled checks. If any kind of one-off approval is required than the local authorities have been more than helpful, not because of the 'wasta' as you like to believe but because they (the authorities) are genuinelly trying to help us. From what I can gather you do seem to be a bitter, disgrunteled employee who either has a current problem with the top management or once did.

[NZ X man]

Hay what ever happened to Tayar? Dry up and blow away?

[v1abort]

EX - point well taken and yes the safety part goes without saying. personally for me if there was something more than a cabin defect i would insist the plane be taken to the service center or call an AOG. true, easier said than done. while i was there i never had a hard break that pj techs could get their hands on. and yes, i did see some crafty paperwork, but nothing that was too scary. fixing mistakes and what not.
guess there is no simple solution other than spend the money to fix the planes correctly. maybe if they didn't low ball the competition they would have more cash to spend.
at the end of the day if you don't like the mx then don't go. it will mean a rash of :mad:, but maybe they will get a clue.
between a rock in a hard place. damned if you do and damned if you dont.

but i do have to say, PJ isn't the only one pulling this :mad:. but again they are bigger and more people are watching.
good luck with it, i have faith that the good people that are there can eventually make some changes for the better....maybe:rolleyes:

[EX TERMINATOR]

hptcc,
I am sorry, but I am not going to be dragged into a path of personal issues. Let's concentrate on facts as I have always been doing. But it is very interesting to find someone accept/condone "Wasta" so openly in this industry in particular with the very critical margin of safety!! It is OK to try defending the senior management for some reason or another, but I advise you not to get confused between what is acceptable and what is not, or indeed what is right and what is wrong. It is also OK for authorities to try and help an operator. This is RIGHT. But it is not OK for them to turn black to white or vice versa. This is WASTA. It is WRONG!!

[AEUENG]

It is rumoured locally in abu Dhabi that PJ has lost it's AOC. Does anyone have any further information to confirm this? It came from a reliable source but not from within PJ.

[Fat Clemenza]

It HAS been revoked, it's a secret to one.

[asdf1234]

Which AOC has been revoked? They have more than one. Faris Deeb talked recently abut their European AOC via Flylink and their Qatar AOC (number 003!). I assume if they lose one they can still use the others?

Hate to bang on about it but what happened to the "white knight"? Is anyone prepared to say if talks are ongoing with an outside investor? If the guys on the inside don't know about this then it seems that the rumour is unfounded and maybe PJ will go to the wall. Shame but at least this thread will give a warning before wages go unpaid again.

[Fat Clemenza]

They lost their UAE AOC and only got 1 CJ3 on the Qatari one. As for the spanish one, I won't speculate much but how useful would it be if the company has not even enough cash to pay its pilots, let along its suppliers...

[EX TERMINATOR]

People from within are talking about "something really bad" going on. They do not know exactly what it is, but they called it "disastrous". There were serious incidents in the past that happened (eg. when 3-4 managers including one of the Deebs were jailed because of smuggling people, money and substances into the UAE in April 2008 on board one of their aircraft) but the management succeeded then in keeping the details unknown to most of the employees. They will surely do their best this time to hide the news from as many people as possible. Still, the truth will come out sooner or later!!

[asdf1234]

Monsiuer HPTCC,

Not true, surely?

You were defending your employer and I think for good reason - can you dispel the AOC rumour or is it true?

[EX TERMINATOR]

Dear ASDF1234,
If it is true.. then my only explanation is that the White Knight lost his way in a Dark Night and never made it to PJ!!

[EX TERMINATOR]

Somebody closely following Dubai's current real estate crisis sent me a PM. He/she said that well informed sources reported that the owner of PJ has for quite sometime been focusing on his real estate business in Dubai which has naturally been affected by the current crisis. This answered the questions that many of us had as to the reason why the owner had not intervened efficiently in an attempt to take a remedial action on his ailing aviation business (PJ) with its uneducated, inexperienced, unethical and corrupt management team. So the owner must have re directed the White Knight's course to his businesses in Dubai as a matter of priority. From the looks of it, a whole Chivalry of white knights would be needed with no guarantees that this would make any difference!!

[hptcc]

Oh Ex-Terminator, yee of little faith...a journey of a 1000 miles usually starts with a few stumbles, the odd blood nose and of course a few broken bones not to doubt a few wrong turns and the necessity for a compass swing to re-allign the IRS's - this is basically PJ. Indeed they are in need of a premature D-Check to remove all of the corrosion in their system, replenish their oil (as the engines are almost dry!!), conduct a 3-shot-plot to get rid of that nasty vibration, administer a full avionics upgrade and calibrate the heading needle as its currently clearly not pointing in the right direction. Hopefully after that you will see the new streamlined, shiny, glorious, prestegious, dont f**k with me, super aerodynamic, stealth VVIP Aircraft Operator that the Company should actually be. Let's just hope and pray that soon money gets spent wisely not woefully, decisions get made smartly not stupidly, managers listen to the right people and not trust the wrong ones and finally the PJ Top Management act Professionally not Pathetically. VIVA PRESTIGE JET:ok:

[EX TERMINATOR]

HPTCC,
Indeed that has been what we were hoping for!! a speedy recovery for the sake of the good and honest people working for PJ..I honestly can not see this happening under the current senior management team. Mark my words. However, it is a good thing that you have responded to my thread.. but whatever happened to the questions posed to you by FAT CLEMENZA and ASDF1234 regarding the AOC being revoked plus other extremely serious indications and incidents!!:rolleyes::uhoh:

[EX TERMINATOR]

Let's just hope and pray that soon money gets spent wisely not woefully, decisions get made smartly not stupidly, managers listen to the right people and not trust the wrong ones and finally the PJ Top Management act Professionally not Pathetically.


If, as you are pointing out: money is not spent wisely..decisions are not made smartly..managers are not listening to the right people.. and top management are not acting professionally.. what kind of management does PJ have? This is exactly what we have been on about since the beginning. :ugh:

[asdf1234]

I have to echo Ex-Terminator's post - what happened to the AOC? It can't hurt to say once and for all - yes we lost it or no, we still have it?

[TRITAR500]

PJ AOC has not been renew. They lay off 40 employees. GCAA is very:mad:with them and their AOC is gone for ever if they don't change senior management and come back with a very professional operation with full time postholders and a new contract for pilots:ugh:

[EX TERMINATOR]

Dear hptcc and others defending PJ "Senior Management",
Well, it looks like PJ Senior Management, on top of which is dubai981, is in deep trouble. GCAA has finally detected the virus. Do not stick up for the viruses, or you will get the disease. It is fatal and is called corrupt and fraudulent practices.

[Tsonami 33]

Hey People over there,

I see some of you still arguing about the AOC issue which has nothing anymore to do with Prestige Jet current situation.The fact is that the AOC has been renewed ;however they are financially broken.

The small Deeb and the other relative have been selling flights all these times on Credit :} without collecting the money, we can understand that with goverment and royal sides they are not entitled to ask for the money but what about the other clientt!!! Theyhave been enjoying flying with private jet for almost the whole year and not paying, why?? Cuz marketing just want to sell their flights, they make the crew rush like dogs prior to each flight with fake dep times, this whole scenario to make sure they will get their annual commision by the end of the year.:D

They are planning to fire above 40 people even, they already started with one pilot-poor he is-and all the rest will be on hold (logic wise no money).

Really feel sorry for the other people inside even i hold all the respect and appreciation for Faris Deeb, honestly he is a smart guy with unlimited thinking.Things were supposed to took another way but dunno what happened with them.:(

Wish them best of luck.:ok:

[Gulfstreamaviator]

Has any one else seen their current full page and back cover advert in the ME trade press.

Theey have what appears to be a lost tail surface, in fact it is a messed up cut and paste.

Is there any one in charge of advertising.......?

glf

[EX TERMINATOR]

Professionally speaking, no one is in charge of anything, not only advertising. It is a whole mess. This is what happens when pathetic performers take charge of senior management positions and deny decent and professional people their rights.
PJ, under its current management, is distant from civilized and internationally recognized practices, as well as from the fundamental principles of humanity and decency. This continues to be a cause for one to feel sorry for those innocent and decent people inside.

[EX TERMINATOR]

T33,
I could not help but pose this question: How can one be a "smart guy with unlimited thinking" and yet allow such pathetic marketing, financial, administrative and human resource practices to slip through and continue for such a long period of time?!:confused:

[B737best]

Unlimited stupidity is their way of thinking,countless of complaints being filed everyday by employees , the new investor will quickly understand that financially , this place is not viable.THEY OWE MONEY ALL OVER THE WORLD.They are transfering money to Jordan to start the same scam overthere. BEWARE. Looks like they will be left with a couple of airplane.
PJ is down to a CJ2 now. oupssss.
They are still flying their Sovereigns with contract pilots. Those poor bastards probably dont even know that those plane are due for repo from Cessna finance. Leases unpaid for months. go PJ. The laugh of the gulf :D :ok:

[EX TERMINATOR]

You know.. It would really be a big surprise if the Jordanian authority (JCARC) allows PJ to dig deep its rotten roots in the country knowing its current status and hilarious performance histroy in the UAE. Such status and performance are no secrets to anyone. It does not take a lot of intelligence to figure out that such an establishment is a threat to the safety and a burden to the economy of any country. It is a disgrace to human rights, as well as to the basic rules of ethics, decency and professionalism.

[EX TERMINATOR]

Operating N-reg aircraft (as well as any other non A6-reg A/C) commercially by a UAE AOC holder such as PJ is one of GCAA's most serious violations. This violation has been continuously practiced since the beginning by PJ with instructions to the employees (both verbal and written) from their CEO (Faris Deeb) to claim that such aircraft are only flown privately by the owners (sheiks trusting PJ for the management of their aircraft).
As for the shrinking number of aircraft under their management, this is due to the fact that the credulous sheiks have gradually started to discover the reality of PJ and accordingly terminate their contracts with them and eventually pulling out their aircraft. There are on going lawsuits to this effect, and hence the only remaining CJ2.

[Fat Clemenza]

HOw can the CJ2 still be flying if they only got one pilot left to fly it?

[S.F.L.Y]

The CJ2 is single pilot certified, even for commercial ops, as long as your are A6 registered (which obviously isn't the case anyway).

[Fat Clemenza]

I wouldn't be surpried exterminator...Heard they got several lawsuits from current and former employees, let's hope the company stays in business long enough so they get their money from them

[EX TERMINATOR]

Knowing how deceitful and sleazy PJ is towards its employees, and how unfair the justice system in the UAE (land of slavery) is, especially towards expats, it is not going to be easy for those whom PJ owes money..but I agree with you and sure hope that they will eventually get their money. Working for PJ has indeed been a bitter experience for so many. I hope that everybody learns from it.

[TRITAR500]

AOC not renew; it will take a long time and many changes to get it back, then they will be watched by the GCAA:D.

[EX TERMINATOR]

Any one knows any news about their outfits outside UAE and whether the relevant authorities have started to discover them or not yet? Spain, Jordan, Bahrain and Qatar??

[hptcc]

Lets look at the facts. AOC - UAE :ok: AOC - Spain :ok: AOC - Jordan :ok: AOC - Qatar :ok: AOC - Bahrain, in process. As an outsider it just seems to me that there are a few sour grapes out there trying to ruin the bunch. The fact is that PJ grew sooo quickly over the past 2 years that it was inevitable that they made a few mistakes which I am sure they have learned from now. As for their AOC's in the various other GCC states and in Spain, well that is a sure sign that the Top management are serious about the expansion of the Company and, to their credit, haven't given in to those nasty people out there who are tring to bring them down.

Unfortunately because of the rapid epansion, PJ were put in the situation whereby they were desperate to hire people to meet their operatinal requirements (maintenance, ops, cabin crew, admin, dispatch, HR etc etc) and because of this hiring frenzy it was again inevitable that they employed some absolute tossers who had no clue about aviation or were just outright useless because they felt that as they new the owner they could get away with anything i.e do nothing:=. Hopefully Top Management have cottoned onto the fact of who the players are and who the acheivers are and will rid the company of all dead wood to streamline the operation.

As a parting message all I can say is that there will always be scum out there who will try and bring down the top dog - just be aware as big brother is always watching.....I am the vortex.....LONG LIVE PRESTIGE JET INTO 2010 AND BEYOND......:D:D:D

[S.F.L.Y]

The fact is that PJ grew sooo quickly over the past 2 years that it was inevitable that they made a few mistakes which I am sure they have learned from now.

Soyons serieux deux minutes: flying illegal charter flights for 2 years on everything but A6 registration isn't a little "mistake" and this says a lot about the management. Let's see if they will cover their debts and involve people with some more "operational" experience for the management.

[EX TERMINATOR]

hptcc,
You seem to have the habit of coming in with a post defending PJ management and attacking some of the posters who bring in facts, then wait for a while until some strong and grounful responses to your posts have gone through their "peak effect" on the readers, then come back with the same scenario with different words and phrases. I have noticed that a number of posters responded to your posts strongly and have rendered you speechless and defenceless. All, including you are invited to revisit the previous pages in this thread to find this out.
Any how, I agree with S.F.L.Y's response and add to it a reminder to the readers that violating the safety of flight in so many ways and incidents is far from being "slight mistakes". One of so many examples is losing the maintenance history on the aircraft by forcing unauthorized mechanics to perform maintenance works without making any entries in the log books lest auditors discover the lack of authorizations (no licenses and no type rates) upon auditing and/or spot checking the aircraft records. Anyone interested in reading details of such violations can PM me and I will forward to him/her copies of stamped reports (in PDF format) sent to the CEO from maintenance warning him that flight safety was being compromised, with no action taken by the management.
May I also kindly request that in your reponse(s) do not resort to the personal issues. Likewise, insulting other posters is far from being professional. You can defend PJ "super managers" but in a civilized and professional manner. Let's see you respond to this post with abstract facts. Good luck.

[hptcc]

Oh Ex-terminator, one cannot help but feeling that there is slight resentment from you towards PJ.!!?? It seems totaly clear that you are on a one man mission of 'revenge and wrath' and will do everything you can to tarnish them....

Now, lets look at the facts. In ANY organisation in the world may it be aviation, banking, knitting, running a brothel or WHATEVER - a CEO will employ Directors and/or Managers to FIX a problem and not just highlight them. You say that you have stamped copies of violations you bought to the attention of the CEO, well thats a good start. Question is, what did you do to RECTIFY the problem? There is nothing worse than employing someone who tells you there is a problem. Thats why you were employed, to fix the problem. I can tell my Company Boss's of lots of issues within the company or I can tell them of how I rectified them (also remember, there is a BIG difference in tellling one's boss how to rectify a problem and also in telling one's boss that the problem has been rectified). Question is, what did you do to RECTIFY the issues? I presume you did NOTHING which is why you dont work there no more. I don't really know, I am just trying to get a picture here of what went on.

It also seems that you continually dig up the past. In fact almost every post from you has talked about incidents and/or issues that are long gone. I agree they shouldnt have happened in the first place and no doubt they wont happen again but on the scale of it, you really should be ashamed of yourself wanting to leak PDF information to the public at large - and you call yourself a professional????

Furthermore, seldom am I rendered speechless or defenceless. Why? Because when I talk I know what I am talking about - do you? And I dont mean about what happened in PJ, I mean about Aviation. I think that due to your serious lack of aviation knowledge in the UAE, this is the reason you let standards drop in your area and hence had to result to blame when all the time it was you who was to blame. Also defenceless? Me? I think not! And why, it is because I work with passion and not aggression and thus have no reason to show defence or attack. I have a solid team of people where I work and they respect me as a professional and still joke around with me as if we were school kids. I think you never had this sort of relationship with your staff and they learned to dislike (I was going to use the word 'hate' but I feel you are the sensative type) you.

Anyway my dear friend, I am not one to get into e-mail battles with people but all I can say is that on the grand scheme of things, through the ups and downs, through thick and thin the fact is that PJ are still flying and flying well.

No doubt you or someone will respond with the old "2 years ago...." or "I remember when...." response......

The Vortex lives on......

[S.F.L.Y]

hptcc, how can you seriously blame the employees for not fixing the issues assigned by the CEO?! Do you know that in our industry the CEO is generally the accountable manager in front of the GCAA? How can a CEO conduct illegal commercial operations without being blamed? What is your CEO experience in aviation? Gulfjet?!?! How many A6 registered aircraft does PJ operates today?

In addition PJ debts are famous all over the area. I think your company should first settle all these little stains before pretending being a clean ops on this forum.

[Fat Clemenza]

I have not yawned in front of a pprune post for a looong time...:zzz:

[AEUENG]

So tell me hptcc, your staff are happy to be "joking around you" when PJ has not paid them for 2 months?

[hptcc]

Ex-Terminator,

Maybe your approach was not stabilized? There is nothing worse than a non-stabilized approach where all your parameters are way out of synch and very importantly when your attitude just isn't right. You know it's all about attitude in this game...nothing worse than a wrong or bad attitude no matter what altitude you have in a Company. No one else seems to have had this isuue. In fact to the contrary, some have even found Top Management whole heartedly supportive, both verbally and financially. Again I will reiterate to you - In nearly ALL companies whether in the Middle East or wherever, Top Management simply dont have time to attend countless meetings, discuss countless problems which they know exist, argue with Managers/Directors on a solution and/or waste counteless hours listening to someone about the same old problem (not solution). Experience has lead me believe that if one of my employees comes to me with problem and subsequent solution then I simply tell him/her go ahead and DO IT, FIX IT, EXPEDITE and advise them only to come back to me once everything is solved and ready. I also tell them to not waste my time with small talk and pissy little meetings to tell me every step they took. In return, I offer financial assistance when its requested and required. To my good employees I will back them up all the way (when I say good, I mean those who show me results, those who pave the way for growth, those who prove me wrong, those who dont fill my inbox with utter waste, those who dont take credit for other peoples work...I think you know the type I mean Ex-Terminated, sorry Ex-Terminator). To the bad ones, well what can I say (when I say bad I mean those who hide under the radar, those who take credit for other peoples work, those who just rant on and on about the same old stuff day in day out, those who tell me what needs doing and then don't do it...I think you know the type I mean Ex-Terminated, sorry Ex-Terminator).

Anyhow, the show must go on. PJ will carry on flying to new altitudes with the right attitudes and Inshallah 2010 will see a better, more smooth, more professional, more hassle free organisation. I believe that PJ are on the up and up again so beware people.....

Heres to keeping the dream alive!!! :D:ok::D:ok:

[Duh]

I think it's funny that the(or a) pilot thinks he deserves the time and ears of the CEO. If you can't follow a chain of command then you might want to reassess who and where you are in it. Having said that, it's that way in every Company, wether it's a Corporate Jet outfit or Major carrier. :ugh:

[S.F.L.Y]

hptcc you really make me laugh on that one! Top management should not be concerned by how issues are managed? Top management is FULLY RESPONSIBLE in front of the GCAA and justice, as such, some involvement in the application of regulations and laws should be on their task list.

What if an accident happened to one of your illegal charter flight? No insurance would cover you and pay for the mess, while your top management would be first to pay the price.

By the way, to be responsible of something (ie flight ops) would naturally require some experience and knowledge. What experience of operations does you big boss have? How can he seriously make decisions and take safety responsibilities?

I'm sorry but according to the laws and regulations of this country (which you obviously don't know), your top management is actually fully responsible for all illegal operations it carried out, even if mislead by nasty employees with bad intentions.

[EX TERMINATOR]

hptcc,
I have to reiterate the need for you to have some respect for readers' time and intelligence. I also request that you respond to their precise and legitimate questions, rather than waste their time making personal accusations. People are interested in facts that would serve the industry as well as those pursuing their careers within it in an honorable manner. If you continue making posts like this on behalf of the Deebs simply because they can not write a single paragraph in Arabic, let alone English, they will drag you down with them.
At the end, time will tell where this "establishment" will end up. Whether it is contributing positively to the industry, or is being a disgrace, will be judged by authorities, financiers, service providers, suppliers, clients and other stakeholders.

[Fat Clemenza]

Honnestly EX T and SFLY, why are you bothering yourselves with those replies??? The prick is acting just like his pimp, giving lessons to the world when he's eating out of the toilet?

Let the guy speak, he's only discrediting myself and the organization he's bending over for. Anyone with some kind of self esteem wouldn't take such position, let alone people who made their bones in this business. If you see somebody talking a sh!t bath and the guy tells you "you stink!", are you gonna bother replying to him? I know I won't, I'll just laugh, just like I am at this dude's posts:}

[EX TERMINATOR]

You are right FC..and I think hptcc posts have been nothing but insults to the intelligence of the readers and posters alike. They simply are not worth responding to.:bored:

[bherald]

Hi Ex,
I was able to get access to one of the corporate reports you were on about regarding work performance at PJ. I was reading a para where there is a mention of a "lost experience" instead of gained or accumulated experience?! :confused: How can this be? Would you care to elaborate?
Cheers.

[EX TERMINATOR]

bherald,
I do not know your background or profession, nevertheless here is my response.
In this industry documenting the work in details is of an extreme importance, where any one performing any task on the aircraft has to document it in the log book with authentication, and authorization. This would safeguard the aircraft maintenance history as well the mechanic's track record of tasks he/she will have been performing, and hence the accumulated experience which is needed for licensing, and upgrade purposes. In order to document and stamp the tasks in the log book, a worker has to be qualified (licensed and type rated). This was not the case at PJ. No one could have his/her work documented because of the lack of licensure and/or type rate. The unauthorized and unqualified mechanics spent months and months working on the aircraft , which was a serious violation and never documented such work which was another serious violation. The second was the cause for the "lost experience" as the mechanics could not officially present the tasks to the auditors or authorities or claim that they had experience on this or that type of aircraft. This affected the mechanics morale severely. The problem is still existing with more violations, frustrations and morale deterioration.
I hope this clears your point.

[bherald]

Ok.. I now understand:ok:
But it is a bit puzzling to see everything spelled out clearly: violations, warnings, advices and recommendations.. if the management cared, why wasn't it listening?!:ugh:

[Desert Dawg]

A good mate of mine is currently employed by PJ..... and desperately looking to get out.

Let's just say that 2 months with no salary from PJ makes my mate very pissed off... :ugh:

DDB's have no morality....

[Fat Clemenza]

"Do they have anything?" That should be your question dawg:eek:

[bherald]

Ex,
As I found the news that you are bringing of interest, I have been talking to various people including current PJ employees. They never stated a single phrase that contradicts what you have been posting. However, you are mostly focusing on the maintenance side, which I prosume is you area of expertise. This was why I meant to check the other areas where I found an interesting piece of information relating to two ex CFO's who left the company because of conflicts with the CEO (Faris Deeb). One of whom left the company after decades of work with the owner in other businesses; and the other discovered something that the sources did not know the details of. It relates to some kind of "dirty deals" with some clients engaged in money laundery and smuggling stuff accross countries. As a result he resigned and was accused by the CEO of having stolen money from the company!
Can you or anyone else elaborate on this?

[freddieclemenza]

Hey, it quiet about Prestige Jet here. Why?

Maybe because they throw away employees who try to work by GCAA regulations, so nobody left know enough to discuss danger in pprune?

Maybe because Prestige Jet not pay employees now 4 month so everybody fear say something?

Maybe because they move from HQ to Al Bateen because court order to take furniture, equipment, cars for pay employees who win court case?

Maybe because employees afraid of Faris Deeb's "Bull" (this how Faris describe Jose) who flying two aircraft type, one of which has fraudulent sim check, who treaten other employee with destroy their career and violence? This same Jose sent away from Al Jaber for damage to aircraft due bad landing make damage to aircraft?

Maybe because GCAA protect Prestige Jet by refuse let aircraft owners reclaim aircraft by refuse deregistration, not force Prestige Jet to follow regulation, so employees afraid for job & carrier?

Adelante, comrades, we not paid and not receive help from GCAA unless we tell the world about truth in Prestige Jet. I started thread, please add comments.

[Nimer767]

And Maybe its the worst company over the world :D

[KC130desertflyer]

they definitely are the worst company at paying their employees what they owe them. Even with UAE court order they ignore it and have not paid pilots that left last summer. If you even consider flying for these cheaters you will not be paid in the end when you leave.

[freddieclemenza]

We must make like other oppressed people in Middle East: make protest visible and loud, bring attention owner Sheikh Hamed al Hamed why he permit employees go without pay and company be danger, not legal and many lawsuit from employee, supplier. Also why he refuse order of court for pay employees who win judgment from court and make order for company pay.

Sheikh Hamed know situation but no caring - he refuse receive or hear Prestige Jet employees who go him and ask for speak about problems - so we must elevate story that it gain attention and affect Sheikh Hamed, since he does not care about his own loyal employees. All we want is pay that was promised us for our works but Hamed this billionaire refuse pay employees who responsible for his own safety. How much idiot that?

Sheikh Hamed office in hotel Sheraton Abu Dhabi - angry protesting Prestige Jet employees in lobby and Sheikh Hamed office area obtain his attention. Also attention of newspaper. Also write Sheikh Hamed in Sheraton tell him Faris criminal Jose danger please pay employees.

[Fat Clemenza]

if this company still exists, it's because they still find people desperate enough to work for them. Sorry folks, if those of you working took it to court and asked for their rights, things would be different. But so far, they still do not pay on time and employees still remain there, I can understand that it is hard to find other opportunities but you cannot bend over buttnaked and expect not to be screwed

[freddieclemenza]

"Sorry folks, if those of you working took it to court and asked for their rights, things would be different."

This even sorrier: number of employee take complaint to Labour Ministry, Labour Ministry do nothing and send them to court, all win judgements against company and receive court order make company pay - and company still no pay, just laugh on employees.

Company think it above law, laugh on employees, on Court of Abu Dhabi and on GCAA, which no enforce regulation on company and even protect company by refuse allow owners of aircraft deregister aircraft and take back aircraft. Company no pay aircraft, employees, suppliers, laugh on all of them and GCAA provide protection on company, not enforce safety and financial requirements.

These people Faris Deeb and Hamed Al Hamed no respect law or people or customers or suppliers or GCAA or Court of Abu Dhabi. Should be scandal - and will be if accident. Then GCAA go down with Prestige Jet, causing trouble to Emirates & Etihad when GCAA cause UAE downgrade to Category 2 and EK & EY growth refused by EU & US. Why GCAA risk such problem own career and for large UAE airlines in order protect Prestige Jet??

[bherald]

Freddieclemenza,
Those honest professionals who were unfortunate enough to work for PJ will agree that this entity is demonstrating a true picture of the 21st century slavery (as one poster who is an x employee, once put it) with the well known theme of: Over-work, underpay, force to violate and prohibit complaints. Because PJ management is far more advanced than others in the sand pit when it comes to mistreating employees, they go one extra step in parallel. They buy authority figures, just in case some employees manage to reach GCAA, MOL or other authorities. This last step was openly admitted by the management in more than one instant of intimacy with the chosen few. So who do poor employees hope to reach in order to get their rights?
The bottom line is, no matter what you do within the Gulf area, you will never win. They have the power, and influence on all authorities, ministries and courts of "law".
If any action is to be effective, it has to be taken to the international level. That is where the "Arabian system" is powerless. But this needs evidences and proofs. Do not go there empty handed, with just words.
Good Luck.
bherald

[freddieclemenza]

Thank you, bherald. Please, can you describe what you will advice us do when say "If any action is to be effective, it has to be taken to the international level."

[Gulfstreamaviator]

an EU airport or regulatory authority follows up the foreign aircraft oversight, based on input from persons involved in a flight or two.

or an employeee claims in hiis own EU country, a sum of money owing, and obtains a court lien, to padlock the asset to ensure settlement.

ie has the eurocontrol bill been paid.????

or airport bills outstanding....

all handling companies billsall up to date.

glf

[bherald]

Thanks glf..may I add a reminder here that once an a/c is airborne entering international aerospace, its airworthiness and compliance with international rules and regulations becomes an international concern and responsibility; meaning that regardless of its origin, registration or ownership, any violation can be reported to the relevant authority (e.g. EASA if it is overflying European aerospace, FAA if flying in a North American aerospace, etc). So provided one has a proof of an existing violation, it can easily be taken to the concerned authority that well and truly oversees and ensures regs compliance, unlike GCAA for instance. Moreover, PJ a/c land in airports across the world where airport authorities have the mandate to ensure compliance with the local as well as international rules and regulations. Those are places where one can submit the complaint with a proof. One of the rather simple issues that we had at European airports with PJ flights was with incomplete, missing or outdated certificates and licenses for a/c and crew members. Another more serious issues related to fake log books with false a/c maintenance history and defect rectification, not to mention counterfeit pilot licenses, etc.

[freddieclemenza]

Global Express N5UU join other Prestige Jet aircraft now repossess by owner leassor, like Legacy EC-KFQ. So process suggest above happen but benefit Prestige Jet owner who refuse pay aircraft, supplier, employees but still no pay to Prestige Jet employees.

Notice repossessed aircraft non-UAE register - GCAA protect Prestige Jet by refuse allow owner leassors to repossess A6-registered aircraft. GCAA look other way on operation violations and fraud training & maintenance records cause from pressure by Hamed Al Hamed owner Prestige Jet.

[freddieclemenza]

Latest thing from Prestige Jet. No credit for any flights, so pilots carry big amounts of money. Acountants have no way to track all the money because it comes from unknown places. When pilots terminated the acountants cannot equal the money and the pilots is charged with the missing money. Pilots names are sent to police to get money back from pilots when they are coming or leaving country. No one taking money, acountants are bad and another way Prestige Jet makes going to labor ministry to file complaint no possible.
Pilots paying with cash be advised you to be next.

[KangarooFlyer]

We have seen numerous threads detailing the underhanded methods of the ownership and management of Prestige Jet, but this one is really over the top:

Due to having no credit after failing to pay just about every person and organization it deals with, Prestige Jet sends its flight crews out with tens of thousands of Euros in cash in order to pay for things like fuel, ground handling, hotels, etc. The entire operation is a cash operation, customers paying cash to Prestige Jet, Prestige Jet paying cash to suppliers - an accounting, organizational control, security and money-laundering nightmare.

With this background, a Lineage pilot asks to be paid (the company has not paid employees in several months), gets nowhere and so files a case for his pay. How does Prestige Jet react? While said pilot is out of country, they file a criminal case accusing the pilot of stealing AED 2 million and now he will be arrested if he tries to enter UAE.

Of course, if he really took the money, the airplane would have never been fueled or paid its various landing, handling and other charges, so this claim is rendered prima facie absurd by fact of the pilot having successfully completed all assigned trips, which he could not have done without spending the money on required items such as fuel and ground handling (not to mention what an indictment this is about management control over the cash, if it is to be believed.)

Colleagues, it is bad enough to not be paid, to be paid sporadically and to be ripped off on your way out of the company - but to be accused of criminal acts and sent to jail because you do your job and ask to be paid is absolutely reprehensible. I hope that all in the pilot community will be as shocked and outraged as I am about this new low in UAE working conditions.

Thank you for whatever moral support you can add to this innocent pilot's travails. Please add your comments so that this thread remains on Page 1 of Pprune until the charges are dropped against this pilot, the current employees are paid and the court orders to pay former employees, a number of whom have successfully won judgments which the company simply ignores, are complied with by Prestige Jet. Thank you for your support and participation in keeping this topic and this thread alive.

[BeCareful]

Well... there ya have it gentlemen...

Do you really want to work for an outfit that makes you launder their money, doesn't pay your salary for months, and then tries to imprison you when you try to move on simply because they don't want to pay your end-of-service benefits...

Most people would find this assertion laughable to the point of ridiculous.... yet with Prestige.... 'laughable and ridiculous' are kind words to describe them...

[Fat Clemenza]

Why don't pilots take whatever money they are owned and get the hell out? I am not saying "steal all the money" but to take their salaries and leave

[NZ X man]

Just a few years ago, they were going well,.paying well , putting the crew in good hotels, and everybody seemed happy, but anybody who dealt with them or worked for them, myself included, could see the end on its way. You do not keep lying to everybody, including the folks who are out there trying to be your professional crew, with out paying the price at the end of it all. I feel for the guys who for whatever reason, are still there, and having to put up with was a fairly difficult job to start with.

Good Luck.

[freddieclemenza]

We fail to understand the impact having a job like Prestige Jet has to our families. My family has suffered much because Prestige Jet and the Deebs have seen fit to spend my salarie on new cars, new villas and fill the pockets of the Chairman who has much money already. Then they make trouble with police for pilots leaving thier employ. You do the best you can, then they smash you down. I am sure Mr. Deeb, Mr. Yousef have never missed salarie. SH. Hamed please help your people, pay what is owed to now employees and pay what is owed to employees who have money coming to them from before.

[onhmss]

I have personal experience of taking my case, not dissimilar to this bunch, to taking my case to the Ministry of Labour in Abu Dhabi. I found them helpful, protective, and what's more surprisingly efficient at getting my money. PM for info. DON'T PUT UP WITH IT !

[pinkus]

P.S Who was the pilot can someone PM me?

[bherald]

Dear All,
With all that has been reported about PJ, its management and ownership, I am sure that there is evidence that this outfit is corrupt; to say the least. Between current and x employees and outsiders, the crucial role would be the responsibility of the current employees whose information about the compay's prcatices are fresh. This is if ,at all, we intend to stand in the face of a corrupt bunch of creatures, and stop them from doing any more harm and damage to people's lives, to the industry, and to the whole world and mankind. Having said this, I have to point out that I am hereby addressing that category within the current employees who have an alive consience; and who are willing to contribute and put efforts towards putting this entity, its owners and managers where they belong. One would ask why would a decent person want to stay at this **** hole? the answer is because he or she will have been conned into joining, and stranded by bonds and other evil tools that PJ has plenty of. I call upon that category to help expose PJ and pass documents as proofs of corruption, violations, safety compromises, etc, to as many intenrational authorities as well as local UAE authorities. This way, the UAE authorities would be at least exposed to the whole world if they do not take an action; whereas international authrities are bound to act eventually.
BH

[KangarooFlyer]

Further the the above comment by freddieclemenza, I had posted a separate comment detailing the situation. Rather than repeating that here, may I draw your attention to the other thread "Prestige Jet: Do Your Job, Go to Jail".

The behavior of Prestige Jet ownership and management becomes more scandalous and reprehensible every day. Please help us keep the spotlight - and the pressure - on this situation by adding a comment to either of these threads if you seem them slipping onto PPRuNe Page 2 - we need to keep both threads on Page 1, in order to garner the maximum readership and effect.

Thank you.

[freddieclemenza]

Mr Kangarooflyer,
Thank you for your comments.

[sunnydolan]

Easy to see who I am. PJ sent me an email on my personal email account just about 1 year ago today. This was because my company email and phone had been silenced that day (without my knowledge). The email stated that I was no longer necessary, vacate my apartment and go home. I filed suit in Labor court, won the judgement, hired lawyers, all of that and Prestige Jet has still not paid my back salary, vacation time not taken and end of service. They simply refuse to pay. If you think you can do better, I suggest you think again. If anyone in management's lips are moving they are lying. They lie to the government, the labor court, the employees, the suppliers, the aircraft companies and anyone else who will listen to the line of BS. Tread lightly my fine feathered friends.:mad::=

[EX TERMINATOR]

I had intended to abandon my duty in this forum to make the truth known for the sake of the good people out there, simply because I thought at a certain stage that it was a waste of time and effort, plus the fact that it brought sour memories to ones mind. My tenure at PJ was and remains to be a sorrowful experience, which I have been trying to forget and overcome. But I decided to write again when I saw this post by a gentleman whom I had known to be a man of ethics and professionalism.
With your personal experience Sunnydolan with PJ, are you in the least surprised? When you and I were both employed by PJ we both kept a low profile not because we did not know the truth, but rather because we were hoping that things would change, plus the fact that I personally was tied by a bond. Now we are both free with significant losses and damage in various aspects of our lives and affairs. Still, I'm thankful and so should you. I also think that your experience with law suits in the UAE gives others a pretty good idea as to what to expect. Still, I think we should keep on educating people and making the truth known to others about this outfit and its corrupt management.
I wish you the best of luck.
Ex

[freddieclemenza]

Look at this: Aero Liens List - Aviation Industry Claims, Liens, & Debt (http://www.thelienslist.com/index.asp)

Note Prestige Jet Chairman Hamed Al Hamed right there at the top of the list of aviation "Deadbeats".

The web site calls itself "Aero Liens List - Deadbeats can no longer fly under the radar."

[KangarooFlyer]

Nice job with your scoop:

Aero Liens List - Aviation Industry Claims, Liens, & Debt (http://www.thelienslist.com/index.asp)

Note Prestige Jet Chairman Hamed Al Hamed right there at the top of the list of aviation "Deadbeats".

Thank you for bringing this web site to our attention.

[Fat Clemenza]

gerry dolan is suing them??? I thought he was their buddy:sad::D

[EX TERMINATOR]

Well FC.. Well, you and I, and now Gerry I am sure, know that Dollars are the only friends of the DDB's. Likewise, we all know that their number 1 enemy is ethics and principles!! I hope the rest of PJ employees learn from Gerry's and our mistake of having joined PJ in the 1st place.
Cheers!
Ex

[KangarooFlyer]

Thank you, to all of you, who have responded to this thread. The best way to support the poor guy who is charged with criminal acts by this venal management is to continue to post to these threads every time they get to the bottom of PPRuNe Page 1 - let's keep all Prestige Jet threads active in order to keep the pressure on the company to renounce this heavy-handed effort of trumping-up false accusations in order to destroy somebody's life, merely because he's committed the "crime" of asking for his pay.

[superspotter]

With the greatest respect Kangaroo Flyer, do you think keeping the thread on the first page of Pprune makes the slightest difference?? They dont listen to their own Government but they are going to fall over backwards because Pprune castigates them??........

[EX TERMINATOR]

While I think Aero Liens is an efficient way of keeping people informed, I do not know what legal leverage it has over deadbeats like PJ. However, I wonder why there is no similar thing relating to flight safety violations VS compliance. That is what is indeed needed in the case of PJ. Moreover, it is very important that they be exposed to insurance companies, and lawyers of the VIP's who board their flights.
Ex.

[RJSAviator76]

If it ever comes between getting a trip done and PJ paying out their debt.... they'll pay out - always do, if their backs are against the wall.

[Arnold Grayson]

I have been requested to come to the Prestige Jet office tomorrow for a meeting with them. I will certainly bring up the issue of the company reputation. I am not in any real need of a job right now because I am on a good contract here in Jordan and they are hiring like gang busters back in the US. I would just like to see for myself what these guys are all about. Any tips or hints please forward them to me.

[KangarooFlyer]

Believe it or not, they are very annoyed by these PPRuNe threads, because it affects and impedes their efforts to recruit a new group of suckers who are seduced by the web site, the fancy offices and the slick charm of the CEO. These threads cause some applicants to not apply, some to decline interviews and some to decline job offers, when choosing between Prestige Jet and a reputable company.

Although the CEO doesn't care what anybody thinks, publicizing the name, complicity and actions of the Chairman, Hamed Al Hamed, does have some effect because of the culture of face-saving and hiding bad deeds behind subordinate lackeys; this is an unwanted embarrassment for Hamed, among his peers, demonstrating that he cannot keep his underlings under control.

By itself, a PPRuNe thread may have little discernible effect. But as part of a multi-pronged effort, enough pressure can be exerted in order to induce the company to pay its employees and those with court judgments, in order to quiet the landscape - until the next batch arrives at this point and does likewise.

We know it works because in February 2010 the company was ordered to pay up 3-4 months of salaries which were in arrears, and the CEO complains bitterly about the effect this is having on his relationship with Hamed.

[KangarooFlyer]

Oh, the management will be very charming and tell you all about their great plans for the company and not to listen to the sour grapes rabble-rousers, who are all bad pilots and thieves whom they had to sack. Here are some previous PPRuNe threads which, along with the three current threads, will give you a sense of the consistency of these stories:

http://www.pprune.org/middle-east/378577-prestige-jet-exodus-begins.html

http://www.pprune.org/middle-east/411922-prestige-jet-truth.html

http://www.pprune.org/middle-east/422070-prestige-jet-debts.html

http://www.pprune.org/middle-east/300824-warning-notice-prestige-jet.html

[KangarooFlyer]

You are correct, the employees and judgment-holders must avail themselves of every possible avenue to exert pressure. Alone, none might matter but as the crescendo builds, it will have an effect: pilots preferring to accept competing job offers, lessors and aircraft owners preferring not to entrust their asset to Prestige Jet.

And don't underestimate the value of the embarrassment to Hamed Al Hamed for tolerating and supporting this travesty, which is becoming an embarrassment to the government of Abu Dhabi, which has foolishly given it "government company" standing.

[Gulfstreamaviator]

Ask for all expenses to be transfered to your bank account, in advance, based on Business Class travel, and TWO nights in your prefered hotel, taxi rides etc, etc.

This is how I trated all interviews ion India. (so it must work the other way too.)

If they pay up, then GO if dont pay up dont GO.

glf

[freddieclemenza]

Mr. Arnold Grayson was the offer from Prestige Jet well?

[KangarooFlyer]

Yes, I second the request by freddieclemenza: As you requested advice from this forum and received such, it would be appreciated if you provided us with feedback from your interview with Prestige Jet. Thank you.

[KangarooFlyer]

Further to the above exchange, the word is going around that Faris Deeb has been on the market looking for a BBJ and was refused by at least one lessor which did not wish to provide its available aircraft due to Prestige Jet's bad reputation regarding payment to lessors and employees.

It also demonstrates that, apparently, they do have money for things like that but simply do not want to pay the employees.

[freddieclemenza]

Good writing, KangarooFlyer. Also include it effect customer who no wish to fly company who not pay employees who responsible for customer safety. Good publicize problem create pressure both sides, supplier and customer both.

[rennaps]

I read the entire "Prestige-jet..exodus begins (http://www.pprune.org/middle-east/378577-prestige-jet-exodus-begins.html)" tread which goes right back to 2009.
If it wasn't so tragic for the people involved it would be farcical. I also noted that the people supporting the company and management, register make a few comments and then disappear, strange ;)

If the company is so bad (and it seems so) how does it keep going? :confused:

[sunnydolan]

Rennaps,
When there is little work out there in the real world it is easy to get sucked into another persons fantasyland. Prestige Jet has master con men. They paint a picture of increasing fiscal health. They limit your exposure to the working masses until you are in. They hire from a pool that is vast. Many different situations all over the world make for an inexhaustible supply of people in a situation that need the work and "this is better than nothing". This is true until your first payday. When that comes and goes without pay, and the spiral starts. You start looking elsewhere, fast. Before you know it, you have been there long enough for your currency to run out and without an recurrent you are not marketable on the outside. It plays over time and time again. I made lifelong friends there at Prestige Jet, however the upper management is not counted in this group. I have felt the warm embrace of management all the while the cold dagger of deceit drives deeper into my being.

[freddieclemenza]

Yes, we hear also in Europe about Faris Deeb attempts for obtain aircraft for replace repossessed aircraft and make difficulty from lessor industry learn about Prestige Jet very bad with lessors beside employees.

[freddieclemenza]

Sunnydolan make correct statement why employees remain on Prestige Jet. Other question about why Hamed Al Hamed continue put money in losing business but no pay employees or lessors or suppliers only when forced to pay? Answer not just economics but maybe we here can never know. Maybe Prestige Jet for laundering money, maybe this way of giving money to terrorist organizations - this how it is done, from much cash operation having very bad controls about the money and nobody cares, not even owner which is losing millions every month. Maybe Prestige Jet carrying things on aircraft along with customers. We do not know but we know that company makes no sense and makes no sense owner support corrupt management costing him millions. What anybody else think?

[KangarooFlyer]

It has been reported that word is out among the lessor community, causing certain lessors to decline to lease aircraft to Prestige Jet. Unless they have PLRuNe, we can infer that PPRuNe has contributed to this phenomenon.

[pinkus]

I heard they had credit again because every where they went they were calling themselves "Mediterranean Jets"

Guess that didn't last long.

[KangarooFlyer]

Oh, that's the next Prestige Jet to which all the cash and assets will be moved, in Morocco - like Bahrain, Jordan, Qatar and Spain before.

[Gulfstreamaviator]

This was the response from the CEO of another UAE AOC holder, when a staff member who was terminated requested his legal rights.

glf

[KangarooFlyer]

Freddieclemenza has raised some intriguing questions in the post just above. It is not just about why employees continue to work, it is also about why the owner continues to sink millions into what appears to be a consistently corrupt, mismanaged, loss-making company into which his cash seemingly disappears?

[KangarooFlyer]

You have to wonder whether this is a serious business, as it has been consistently corrupt, mismanaged and loss-making. Why would somebody like Hamed repeatedly sink millions into the enterprise but not pay employees and suppliers?

Freddieclemenza raised some interesting questions in another thread, to the effect that maybe it is money laundering, maybe something else is being moved on the airplanes, maybe they use this cash-operated mess to hide support for terrorist organizations or whatever else in some of the places they fly, etc.

Or maybe the management is stealing from Hamed - money that Hamed thinks is being given to the employees?

[Nimer767]

KangarooFlyer (http://www.pprune.org/members/357135-kangarooflyer) Well said , thank you

[Waste Management]

Hey - if money is being given by the owner and it is not getting to the employees, it is the employees who are getting robbed, not the owner.

In any case, this is an academic philosophical point, as there is no doubt that Hamed Al Hamed knows exactly what is going on in his company, perpetrated by Faris Deeb & Co. and he evidently supports it. Certainly he should be aware about the losses of the company, since he constantly has to input millions more in cash, the many court judgments won by employees who have not been paid, the many lawsuits and detaining of aircraft abroad by suppliers (London, Pairs & Istanbul most recently), the repossessed aircraft, the aircraft that he has bought back from disgusted customers, the $5 million lawsuit by former top customer Sheikh Khalid Al Enazi placed in Jordan which alleges that Mr. Deeb stole $5 million in cash from this esteemed customer...

Of course Hamed knows that the employees are not being paid - he just doesn't give a rat's ass. Try to ask for your pay, you get trumped-up charges placed against you (see http://www.pprune.org/middle-east/450974-prestige-jet-do-your-job-go-jail.html).

[pinkus]

He knows and doesn't give a crap.

His plane was managed by the company long before he became chairman. His flights were always being delayed because handlers, catering, fuel companies etc would refuse to give credit.

He knew all of this and still signed on as chairman. The man owns hotels, banks and all sorts of successful companies. Why would he put money into that sort of sinking ship unless he had an ulterior motive.

The ****ty thing is employee wages are pennies to him. Why not use the company for whatever money laundering dodgy reasons you want to and still pay your employees?

[gerald-dolan]

Easy to see who I am. PJ sent me an email on my personal email account just about 1 year ago today. This was because my company email and phone had been silenced that day (without my knowledge). The email stated that I was no longer necessary, vacate my apartment and go home. I filed suit in Labor court, won the judgement, hired lawyers, all of that and Prestige Jet has still not paid my back salary, vacation time not taken and end of service. They simply refuse to pay. If you think you can do better, I suggest you think again. If anyone in management's lips are moving they are lying. They lie to the government, the labor court, the employees, the suppliers, the aircraft companies and anyone else who will listen to the line of BS. Tread lightly my fine feathered friends.

We have seen numerous threads detailing the underhanded methods of the ownership and management of Prestige Jet, but this one is really over the top:

Well... there ya have it gentlemen...

Do you really want to work for an outfit that makes you launder their money, doesn't pay your salary for months, and then tries to imprison you when you try to move on simply because they don't want to pay your end-of-service benefits...

Most people would find this assertion laughable to the point of ridiculous.... yet with Prestige.... 'laughable and ridiculous' are kind words to describe them...
Due to having no credit after failing to pay just about every person and organization it deals with, Prestige Jet sends its flight crews out with tens of thousands of Euros in cash in order to pay for things like fuel, ground handling, hotels, etc. The entire operation is a cash operation, customers paying cash to Prestige Jet, Prestige Jet paying cash to suppliers - an accounting, organizational control, security and money-laundering nightmare.

With this background, a Lineage pilot asks to be paid (the company has not paid employees in several months), gets nowhere and so files a case for his pay. How does Prestige Jet react? While said pilot is out of country, they file a criminal case accusing the pilot of stealing AED 2 million and now he will be arrested if he tries to enter UAE.

Of course, if he really took the money, the airplane would have never been fueled or paid its various landing, handling and other charges, so this claim is rendered prima facie absurd by fact of the pilot having successfully completed all assigned trips, which he could not have done without spending the money on required items such as fuel and ground handling (not to mention what an indictment this is about management control over the cash, if it is to be believed.)

Colleagues, it is bad enough to not be paid, to be paid sporadically and to be ripped off on your way out of the company - but to be accused of criminal acts and sent to jail because you do your job and ask to be paid is absolutely reprehensible. I hope that all in the pilot community will be as shocked and outraged as I am about this new low in UAE working conditions.

Thank you for whatever moral support you can add to this innocent pilot's travails. Please add your comments so that this thread remains on Page 1 of PPRuNe until the charges are dropped against this pilot, the current employees are paid and the court orders to pay former employees, a number of whom have successfully won judgments which the company simply ignores, are complied with by Prestige Jet. Thank you for your support and participation in keeping this topic and this thread alive.
:mad:

[gerald-dolan]

hahahahahah guess prestige has to be named deeb jets, this company is controlled by the deebs. watch out the company, from these gangs and the big bustered their chairman hamed al-hamed.

[gerald-dolan]

Easy to see who I am. PJ sent me an email on my personal email account just about 1 year ago today. This was because my company email and phone had been silenced that day (without my knowledge). The email stated that I was no longer necessary, vacate my apartment and go home. I filed suit in Labor court, won the judgement, hired lawyers, all of that and Prestige Jet has still not paid my back salary, vacation time not taken and end of service. They simply refuse to pay. If you think you can do better, I suggest you think again. If anyone in management's lips are moving they are lying. They lie to the government, the labor court, the employees, the suppliers, the aircraft companies and anyone else who will listen to the line of BS. Tread lightly my fine feathered friends.

[gerald-dolan]

We have seen numerous threads detailing the underhanded methods of the ownership and management of Prestige Jet, but this one is really over the top:

Well... there ya have it gentlemen...

Do you really want to work for an outfit that makes you launder their money, doesn't pay your salary for months, and then tries to imprison you when you try to move on simply because they don't want to pay your end-of-service benefits...

Most people would find this assertion laughable to the point of ridiculous.... yet with Prestige.... 'laughable and ridiculous' are kind words to describe them...
Due to having no credit after failing to pay just about every person and organization it deals with, Prestige Jet sends its flight crews out with tens of thousands of Euros in cash in order to pay for things like fuel, ground handling, hotels, etc. The entire operation is a cash operation, customers paying cash to Prestige Jet, Prestige Jet paying cash to suppliers - an accounting, organizational control, security and money-laundering nightmare.

[gerald-dolan]

With this background, a Lineage pilot asks to be paid (the company has not paid employees in several months), gets nowhere and so files a case for his pay. How does Prestige Jet react? While said pilot is out of country, they file a criminal case accusing the pilot of stealing AED 2 million and now he will be arrested if he tries to enter UAE.

Of course, if he really took the money, the airplane would have never been fueled or paid its various landing, handling and other charges, so this claim is rendered prima facie absurd by fact of the pilot having successfully completed all assigned trips, which he could not have done without spending the money on required items such as fuel and ground handling (not to mention what an indictment this is about management control over the cash, if it is to be believed.)

Colleagues, it is bad enough to not be paid, to be paid sporadically and to be ripped off on your way out of the company - but to be accused of criminal acts and sent to jail because you do your job and ask to be paid is absolutely reprehensible. I hope that all in the pilot community will be as shocked and outraged as I am about this new low in UAE working conditions.

[gerald-dolan]

Thank you for whatever moral support you can add to this innocent pilot's travails. Please add your comments so that this thread remains on Page 1 of PPRuNe until the charges are dropped against this pilot, the current employees are paid and the court orders to pay former employees, a number of whom have successfully won judgments which the company simply ignores, are complied with by Prestige Jet. Thank you for your support and participation in keeping this topic and this thread alive.

[Waste Management]

You can add to the above questions why customers would utilize Prestige Jet, owing to the disruptions to customers' trips created by all of the mismanagement, corruption and angry suppliers & employees (suppliers holding up the aircraft waiting to be paid - and employees doing same.)

Now we have probably the best Prestige Jet customer ever, Sheikh Khalid El Enazi, placing a lawsuit against Faris Deeb and Prestige Jet in Jordan, alleging that they ripped him off for $5 million.

What else do customers need to know in order to avoid using this company?

At what point does the vise comprised of employees, suppliers and customers get tight enough to encourage change?

[Waste Management]

What's next, sic Erik Prince and his band of "Christian Crusaders" of the most vicious mercenaries to be found around the world, which they are amassing in the desert outside of Abu Dhabi city? Why would they be collecting such a band of notorious rogue characters, other than to utilize them against expats who get out of line or even their own people who pose a threat? No doubt because only these "Christian Crusaders" mercenaries will be the only ones willing to slaughter the expat laborers or their Islamic brethren.

Only conclusion possible: things are going to get ugly in UAE.

[Waste Management]

Dear Ex-Terminator

I think that we can accept as facts the numerous legal judgments won by Prestige Jet employees in the Abu Dhabi Courts, the criminal charges placed against one of the pilots for attempting to assert his right to be paid, the actions of suppliers arresting jets in London, Paris and Istanbul, the repossession of the Prestige Jet Spain aircraft by General Electric Capital Corporation, the $5 million lawsuit placed by former customer Sheikh Khalid Al Enazi in Jordan, the constant cashiering of employees just before they become legally eligible for Labour protections or increased departure settlements, etc., etc.

And, as the comments made on this forum have been consistent over the past three years and affirmed by numerous different employees and ex-employees, as opposed to one person with an attitude or a grudge, I for one choose to accept most, if not all, of the statements seen here as being factual.

[KangarooFlyer]

I don't see where anybody asserts that things like money-laundering and that other stuff are facts. I see people questioning why would a person like Hamed Al Hamed continue to plow money into such an ugly, loss-making company which is dragging his name through the mud, and these things being thrown out there as possible explanations - because it is hard to understand why, without knowing. But nobody has asserted that they know such to be the case.

However, all of the other things listed by Waste Management are, indeed verifiable facts.

[KangarooFlyer]

There are a couple of other threads about this topic, with titles "Somebody's Nervous" and "UAE style".

Not surprisingly, this has not been publicized in the UAE media because it is a very negative development, namely Crown Prince of Abu Dhabi hiring the heinous Yank Erik Prince (remember Blackwater shooting all those innocent Iraqis for sport?) to recruit the most awful mercenaries from around the world, attack dogs ready to slaughter anybody at the order of the Crown Prince. Looks like UAE is going Syria's direction.

[Expatriate-aviator]

with all my respect to all of you, i see all the forum about prestige is all bull****, and all who writes about the company is loosers and idiots, and i beleive they are fit only to be taxi drivers and mechanics not more than that. Prestige Jet is one of the youngest companies in the region, and it has put its name in the aviation market and it has pointed succees, all of you who write about the company, at one day it was the source of funds to feed your kids, and any of you if they where worried about the company it wouldnt reach to this way, but all of you was careless and greedy without ethics, no one has tried to put a small corrective action. So all of you go to hell mother ****ers, idiots and loosers.

[KangarooFlyer]

The above can be summarized as:

"with all my respect to all of you, go to hell mother ****ers, idiots and loosers."

Sounds like the management of Prestige Jet is finally reacting, that which is "greedy without ethics", calling some ex-employees who only wish to be paid such. It's called "projection".

Why coming from Lebanon? Ihsan Deeb can't come to UAE, Faris Deeb can't go to Jordan, which one is this? Or maybe this is Jose, the designated attack dog.

As a matter of fact, all of the employees writing here did try - and try very hard - to make things right but they were thwarted. blocked and thrown out - then not paid what was owed them. Dolan, for example, helped start the company and get it certified. What did he get: a notice out of the blue, giving him 12 days to vacate his apartment.

When Prestige Jet honors the Court orders to pay its employees, I'm sure the carping will stop. Until then, it cannot claim to have fed families - only lined the pockets of management.

[Waste Management]

It is not just ex-employees here, there are current employees who would likewise appreciate being paid - and we have not, in three months. We get stuck all over the world due to unpaid bills, aircraft being arrested, no flight plans, no fuel, pressure to work beyond regulated hours, all kinds of nightmares. I think we are doing more for the company than management which luxuriates while the employees suffer.

We also are working hard to improve the company but management neither wants to see or hear us. In fact, GCAA doesn't want to hear about it, either - such as the captain who is illegally flying two different aircraft types, the company covering that up by altering the aircraft logs, listed simulator checks which never took place because the captain was out flying thousands of miles away while the claimed simulator was said to be taken, etc.

GCAA has been made fully aware of such items. Finally there has been some report attempted, but this has been edited by Mr. Faris Deeb himself - who claims no role in the management of the operation (when it suits him, namely to avoid legal responsibility for his actual micromanagement of everything at PJR) but he can edit a GCAA report - and GCAA seems to be doing nothing about such matters.

So, management corrupt, GCAA apparently complicit, employees just want to do their job and get paid, not fly with illegal maniacs and then not get paid for months at a time - and then be sacked without proper dues being paid. What else is there to do but place pressure on the company by letting the world know? Let's keep these threads alive and well, mates!

[NZ X man]

Expatriate-aviator (http://www.pprune.org/members/358474-expatriate-aviator) Most of the pilots and mechanics who have commented on Prestege have probably worked there, and speak from personal experience. SO the next time your sitting on the toilet there in your house in Lebenon, you should think about what you write instead of getting inspiration from what you are dropping out of your ass!:=

[BeCareful]

I love it... Expatriate aviator... OK, I give up... which Deeb is this? :D

[pinkus]

My moneys on Expatriate Aviatior being the psychotic Spaniard. Such an angry young man.

I love how it starts "With all respect" and finished by calling everyone "mother****ers and looosers"

His lunatic email rants were always a great source of entertainment over drinks on a night stop. The Captain would read them from his Black Berry and we would all laugh.

I understand English is not your first language but it really discredits your argument when it is written in pidgin English.... Looser!

[sunnydolan]

Someone using gerald-dolan is not me. I have no intention of using this board to slander anyone.
:*

[Waste Management]

We have an invective-laced response from management in the "Prestige Jet" thread. That display of the management's attitude toward employees' asking to be paid is a fact.

Asking nicely doesn't work, going to Labour Ministry doesn't work, obtaining a Court order doesn't work. Apparently, putting the name of the Chairman, Hamed Al Hamed, out there as a deadbeat works by his hearing about it through various sources and taking his displeasure out on management, which then responds by baring its venomous attacks on employees in public.

Hey, Hamed - all you have to do is pay your employees and all of this will go away. While you're at it, how about showing proper respect for your Royal Family brethren by honoring the numerous judgments handed down by the Court of Abu Dhabi ordering your company to pay its employees and its former employees their legally-mandated (now Court-ordered) dues. After all, the Court is the representative of YOUR sovereign family; show some respect and obey the Court orders.

[KangarooFlyer]

It seems that "gerald-dolan" merely copied and pasted previous postings, thus re-posting the points made - with one exception: he added something that was censored to one of them.

As this occurred concurrently with the invective-filled response from management in one of the three Prestige Jet threads running, one suspects that this is also PJ management intending to foment mischief using a decent and well-respected person's name. We will soon find out, probably.

[EX TERMINATOR]

From the poor language, lack of vocabulary, high stress level, and poor level of intelligence, I can confidently say that this is big "Deeb". He has been known to expose himself and making similar shows in this forum under different names, e.g. Dubai 981, Tayar, etc.
What is hilarious is the conflicting start and end. This is what I meant in the past when I challenged him to write a two sentence paragraph to express anything in clear, clean, simple and civilized language.
Isn't this pitiful?!:yuk:

[EX TERMINATOR]

I agree and would not put anything past PJ management.:=

[Waste Management]

Thanks, KangarooFlyer, for responding the the question about the nastiest mercenaries on Earth being assembled by the Crown Prince of Abu Dhabi. Seems a worrisome development to many, either regarding his intentions for it and/or what he is worried about that we don't know - yet.

But, back to the issue at hand: does anybody have an update on our mate who has been charged with misappropriation of funds, as reprisal for his going to Labour Ministry in order to obtain assistance in receiving his pay?

[PPRuNe Towers]

Enough already,

WM: Why thank Captain Kangaroo when you are writing from the same computer? And that goes for Freddie too.

Also three other very noisy sign ups in the last 24 hours are all writing from the same computer in the Gulf. If you believe what's wrong should be righted stopped blowing your own credibility by faking ID's and comment.

Rob

[pinkus]

Just report it to the thread moderator. They can't use your real name to write crap.

[Adi Jamil Najjar]

My name is Adi Jamil Najjar. Whoever is claiming that he is Adi Jameel Najjar is impersonating for bad intentions to say the least, which is against the rules and ethics of this forum. I am sure that the moderators are more than capable of stopping such acts.
Adi

[Waste Management]

Dear PPRuNe Towers,

I apologize if I caused offense. It is true that some of us, who are avid followers of PPRuNe, have signed up recently in order to participate in the discussion about one of our esteemed colleagues being wrongly accused of a serious crime, in retribution for availing himself of his right to request assistance of the Labour Ministry and the Courts regarding what he is owed in salary and other compensation.

You are correct regarding the computer, as KangarooFlyer and I are currently flat mates (by necessity, due to our being in this situation of having not received our pay) and my computer had a disk failure. As you can apparently see with your systems, I have gone to an Internet cafe in order to send this message from a different computer. As for Freddie, I'm sure that his history will demonstrate several computers, including Kangaroo's, as he does ask to use it when he happens by.

I infer that your reference to an additional three PPRuNers using the same computer refers to another computer that has three users. KangarooFlyer's computer has two users and an occasional visitor, but the statement as rendered could lead readers to conclude that six persons are using one computer; the latter is not the case and I wish to clarify this point.

We feel unable to provide our names on this forum at this time, as the CEO of this company has numerous times threatened not only to sack anybody who participates on PPRuNe, but to pursue such persons even after departure from the company, in order to have them arrested for something or other (as he has done to our colleague) and to ensure that we are never permitted to work in UAE or GCC or anywhere else they might have influence, in the the future. Unfortunately for us, with Hamed as his patron, he no doubt is able to accomplish all of this before we could even get to the airport in order to get out of the country, or to have such unpleasantries awaiting us upon our return to the country, without our knowing it in advance.

If you wish us to not participate in this discussion, or in PPRuNe, we certainly will respect your wishes, as we are very thankful, appreciative and respectful of the founders, organizers and staff of PPRuNe for providing us with this opportunity to participate in PPRuNe, which exists, in part, for the purpose of exchanging such information without fear of retribution.

Thank you for your consideration of this explanation, and for your [hoped-for] acceptance of our apologies.We shall endeavour to not offend further.

[rennaps]

I noticed how "Expatriate Aviatior" signed up in May 2011 and has made just 1 rant :) LOL

[EX TERMINATOR]

I see that "Expatriate Aviator" has gone silent all of a sudden so soon. I wonder if the cat bit his tongue, or Hamed asked him to swallow it!!:rolleyes:

[Tayar]

Prestige Jet has losing money because pilots steel the money. All the american pilots steel money from company. They order carter for food and take money from company. The americans are responsible for these company to be losing money. The have missmannaged. The missmannaged the money, not the Deeb family. Deeb family are honroble in Jordan, they are not stealers like others say they are. The do not steel money because they do not need to. They have enough money for thereselfs. So, next time shut up and smell the cofee.

Do not come crying for you work and come telling GCAA that Prestige Jet is not good company that is not legal and is not doing good work this compony does some of the best work in the midle east for everyone that flyes with the company and have very well manteinance for airplanes and very safeful operation.

For all expats go back to your countrys and leave prestige jet in peace. Donot' fabricate lyes about what is not truthful when you have no idea what is the true. OK?

[Tayar]

Screw all expat pilots who speaks rubish about prestige jet. Everyone is just jeleos of this company how it is betterthan any other comany in midle east.

Prestige jet was loosing money because american pilots were taking money from company from management. This is know to the DGCA and everyone in management. Expat pilots are abusive and think they is better than arab pilots. They just think can do whatever they want with the company and get away with everything like cry baby. why you come to prestige jet in first place? WHY?

When you was getting your pay you did not cry but then you cry like little american baby, just like president bush. Everyoneis just a big crybaby. now you paying for your crying, crybabys.

[Wizofoz]

When you was getting your pay you did not cry but then you cry like little american baby,

Errr....that's the point- PAY people what they are owed and they don't complain. DON'T pay them, and they have every right to!

Is that really so hard to understand?

[Wizofoz]

For all expats go back to your countrys and leave prestige jet in peace.

Yeah, 'cause you'll TOTALLY get enough local pilots to work for you....

[KangarooFlyer]

As I do not wish to place repetitive responses to the repetitive rant made by "Tayar" Deeb on several threads, may I direct all readers' attention to my response on the thread "Prestige Jet - Exodus Begins" which he inexplicably dragged out of the two year-old archive in order to further indict himself.

[KangarooFlyer]

And placed his rant not only on the "Hamed is a Deadbeat" thread but, inexplicably, brought the damning "Prestige Jet - the Exodus Begins" thread out of the archives and placed a rant on the end of that, too. Go check that out - unbelievable!

[sunnydolan]

WasteManagement; we are all trying our best. Thanks for the effort.

[bherald]

Deeb family are honroble in Jordan
I love this! what about the rest of the places, Tayar?:O

[Henry09]

Oh how the mighty fall!

Thanks for the link to the exodus thread. Jolly fine reading.

Concerning Tayar I found his last post in 2009 amusing concerning an enquiry about Rizon Jet.

originally posted by Tayar

Rizon Jet is bad company to work. They do not have money and did not paying the bils. Lays Of for pilots and they is not operating good at the moment. The managment is rubish, all steal the money and no pay the bils.

Be bery careful of these company. Think of Prestige Jet is you wants to come to good company. All they say about Prestige Jet is rubish about we no payng bils. We have over 200 million in the bank and open more office. We the best company in the middle east. Good aircraft, good mantenance, and good managment that did not steal money like Rizon and Gulf Jet.

So where is the 200 mill?

Ooops I found another :ugh:

Originally posted by Tayar

ll people Gulf Jet is not Prestige Jet. We no asociated with them. They close down because of no money. Prestige Jet have more than 200 million in the bank to continue for more office in the world. Gulf Jet have stealing money all the time and that why it close. Bad management and stealing.

Prestige Jet is no them. All rubish about Prestige Jet is Gulf Jet is no true. Send me mesage and I will say the facts. Prestige have reserve so no go bankrupt. We have good manager and no stealing. So dont talk the rubish and say lie about Prestige Jet.

Kangaroo

Is this guy (Tayar) really part of PJ?

[Henry09]

If all that I have read here (or even some of it) is true then why beat about the bush with these thugs. With the smuggling and 'potential' money laundering issues there is already enough to have the two brothers wearing orange boiler suits in fairly quick time. Send a pack-up of known breaches in safety with evidence if possible and the alleged issues concerning money laundering and smuggling to the CIA/FBI. They will check out the rest. There is some serious stuff being banded around on here and the other PJ threads. Hopefully by typing FBI and CIA (let me throw in an NSA, terrorist and Al Qaida for good measure) then the mail/thread had just been flagged up at HQ and someone will be reading the thread soon anyway :ok:

[KangarooFlyer]

Contrary to rants made by Prestige Jet CEO, the employees are doing their best to make the company a success and a good place to work. We answer all calls, fly all trips, overcome not only the normal obstacles faced by pilots in this type of work, but the infuriating aggravations created by our incompetent and corrupt management - such as lack of funds when attempting to check out of a hotel or pay handling fees or buy fuel in order to depart on time, or waiting hours for money in order to check in to a hotel after a long day filled with such nonsense, etc.

The staff of Prestige Jet is doing a fabulous job under the most arduous of circumstances. The root cause of the dissension seen on this forum is the intensity of resentment that management simply does not care, is there to take what it can while not caring about making a proper operation out of it - and, yes, withholding pay from current employees and former employees who even have court judgments ordering the company to do so.

We are all trying, but it is not easy. And not as easy as some people think to just go get another job, at least anywhere in this part of the world, when these people have your money, your visa and the ability to block you form working elsewhere. Your continued support is appreciated.

[EX TERMINATOR]

And not as easy as some people think to just go get another job, at least anywhere in this part of the world, when these people have your money, your visa and the ability to block you form working elsewhere.
You are quite right, KF. I have also to agree with, and repeat, what has previously been posted in this forum: Being employed in the ME is not so good. Being employed in the Gulf is worse, and being employed by PJ is one of the worst things that can ever happen to you. That is real slavery mate. I know it is not easy to get out, but you have to have it as a plan that is well thought and executed, so that you are out with the least damage and loss.
I wish you the best, whether you remain in the Gulf, or end up leaving for good!

[BeCareful]

If you get hired by a government-owned entity such as EK, EY, Royal Jet, etc. these people can't touch you....

Just be sure you keep all your receipts and copies so you don't end up in prison before you leave Prestige....

[KangarooFlyer]

The problem with that is that it's a cartel: Prestige Jet has been likewise designated a company of the Government of Abu Dhabi, since Hamed Al Hamed took over ownership and Chairmanship, so that none of the aforementioned will even consider accepting a Prestige Jet applicant.

[Waste Management]

Everybody knows who Tayar is, most notably from the "Prestige Jet - the Exodus Begins" thread, which was dormant in the PPRuNe archives for something like 15 months until he was so eager to let loose his invective-laden rant against his own employees, that he dredged that thread out of the archives and breathed new life into that thread. That has to be one of The Most Counterproductive Moves Ever by a CEO - unbelievable!

But, to follow on your postulation, even if Tayar were a rank-and-file Prestige Jet employee valiantly attempting to defend the company on PPRuNe, he seems to be outnumbered something approximating 30-to-1, and his nasty postings, attacking the writers on PPRuNe rather than providing any information which might provide a different perspective, are only adding fuel to the fire. Which is SOP for Prestige Jet management: viciously attack anybody with an idea, suggestion or other input, rather than considering what is being asked and why and evaluating the possibility that it may be a constructive suggestion.

[Waste Management]

If only it were so...

[EX TERMINATOR]

A low level of decency is manifested by being careless and insensitive towards employees affairs, plus exercising evil techniques to cheat and fight them.
A low level of maturity and wisdom is manifested by inability to win decent professionals on his side to build a decent business.
A low level of education is manifested by a substandard language and communication ability.
A low level of intelligence is manifested by inability to read cues in numerous posts and make use of them, plus stupid tactics such as faking and impersonating.
The abovementioned deficiencies were bound to yield evil and corrupt actions and practices. What else can one expect? Where does such a creature belong? This reminds me of Henry09's post regarding the orange boiler suit.:ok:

[bherald]

Have you not felt the bitterness as a result of people exercising WASTA against you in this God foresaken land? Ham'ed, Numb'ed, or Thick'ed..whatever his name is, and the rest of the Sand Sheikhs have the money and WASTA which makes them above the law. But this is the local law and not the international law and authorities. Solid proofs at international courts of law or authorities will do wonders. Better still, CIA and FBI routes can have extremely efficient short cuts.

[BeCareful]

Kangaroo... this is the first I hear of it.... and Hamed has been around for a while...

When did it happen?

[KangarooFlyer]

Hamed took over the company in late 2009. The company was designated an Abu Dhabi government company in early 2010. There was not a formal announcement or press release or anything like that, just Faris telling everybody about it, repeatedly.

Oh, dear. Maybe it's not true....

[KangarooFlyer]

"The abovementioned deficiencies were bound to yield evil and corrupt actions and practices."

Or, the evil and corrupt actions and practices were bound to yield the above-mentioned deficiencies.

[BeCareful]

There was not a formal announcement or press release or anything like that, just Faris telling everybody about it, repeatedly.

Oh, dear. Maybe it's not true....

Hook, line, sinker.... :D

I think it's about as true as Prestige getting several BBJs along with more Globals and some G-450's...... :=:=

[EX TERMINATOR]

Indeed, KF! which ever way you look at it, it is bad. That is, in simple terms the contribution of PJ and its management to the industry.:ugh:

[sunnydolan]

Received a request from PJ to pay on the installment plan. I have waited so long for the money owed to me, it has impacted many areas of my life. I just would like to have this chapter over. Pay the money owed to me and the other pilots and employees to whom you owe money. :ugh:

[jetstreamrider]

Why doesn't someone just out these crooks to the press no matter who they are connected to!!?? There are so many avenues to do this anonymously, I just can't believe no one has managed to do it yet. These scummy people take advantage of good honest people who just want to make a decent living with a passion for an industry that PJ do a great job of ruining. Why they bother claiming to be anything is absurd. They give the Middle East a reputation that tarnishes everyone with the same brush. The sooner someone plucks up the courage to write to the press about their illegal antics, the sooner brokers will stay away and the sooner these cowboy http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/censored.gifhttp://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/censored.gifhttp://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/censored.gifhttp://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/censored.gif will realise they are not so high and mighty and get closed down!

[KangarooFlyer]

Contribution having quotation marks, as in "contribution", right?

[EX TERMINATOR]

Absoultely, and SARCASTIC with all the meanings of the two words.

[BeCareful]

Why doesn't someone just out these crooks to the press no matter who they are connected to!!?? There are so many avenues to do this anonymously, I just can't believe no one has managed to do it yet. These scummy people take advantage of good honest people who just want to make a decent living with a passion for an industry that PJ do a great job of ruining. Why they bother claiming to be anything is absurd. They give the Middle East a reputation that tarnishes everyone with the same brush. The sooner someone plucks up the courage to write to the press about their illegal antics, the sooner brokers will stay away and the sooner these cowboy will realise they are not so high and mighty and get closed down!


How do you get someone to publish a story is a more appropriate question....

[KangarooFlyer]

Our desire is to get sunnydolan, the other former employees who hold valid court judgments and current employees paid our salaries, expenses and dues - not to drive the company out of business. If, in the process of militating to get paid, we make the Chairman, Hamed Al Hamed, aware that his interests and reputation are being very poorly served by the Deebs, Alghareeb and their collaborators, so much the better. But our goal is to get our money, not to do Hamed or the world a favor in respect of Prestige Jet.

[sunnydolan]

This organization claims they have 200 million in the bank. The Chairman is worth hundreds of millions. Yet they ask me if they can pay what they owe me on a 2 year installment plan. I am not the Nissan dealer.:confused::{