Router range issues - again.

[Loose rivets]

I've spent some time looking - I know you've covered it somewhere.


Wife is in old house in Essex. Mate's router is probably less than thirty feet away in a straight line, but there are two or three walls between. Wife can see Netgear, but signal useless.

Router is in a glass conservatory and reaches well in the other direction.


It seems I need to reflect the signal around two corners. :rolleyes:


Really quite serious stuff. We have some serious day to day things to cope with - at hours that are unsociable for the friend/host/landlord. There was to be a connection on arrival, but 'twasn't to be.

Any Ideas. I recall some boosting devices being mention on this forum, but no good search words spring to mind.


Mate will work with me, and It'll pay me to shell out on any kit needed.

[vulcanised]

Don't waste money on so-called signal boosters.

[mixture]

Loose rivets,

Try changing the aerial, or perhaps try a repeater such as the Netgear WN2000RPT (see here (http://www.netgear.co.uk/home/products/wireless-range-extenders/wireless-range-extenders/wn2000rpt.aspx)).

To be honest I've yet to jump onto the big WiFi bandwagon in any big sense and much prefer structured cabling etc. as it has so many advantages over WiFi, but I guess that's something for you to consider for your next home.... :E

[seacue]

My limited experience with WiFi repeaters has been a failure.

Antenna(s) with signal gain on the router could be a solution. Directional antennas pointed at your wife's location might help, if the other WiFi user(s) of the router presently get strong signals.

Is there any chance that you can locate the router in one of the intermediate rooms? That would mean fewer walls to penetrate.

If she already gets spotty performance (rather than none at all), only a modest increase in signal strength may be enough. Digital signals tend to be very good or very bad, with little in between.

Can she move the antenna on her equipment around?

seacue

[Capetonian]

Apparently there's a thing you can plug into a mains socket which distributes the signal. I did a quick Google and can't find anything about it, but did find all this and more.

Boost Wireless Range - How To Expand the Range of a WiFi Network (http://compnetworking.about.com/od/wirelessfaqs/f/extendwifirange.htm)

[Mike-Bracknell]

Apparently there's a thing you can plug into a mains socket which distributes the signal. I did a quick Google and can't find anything about it, but did find all this and more.

Boost Wireless Range - How To Expand the Range of a WiFi Network (http://compnetworking.about.com/od/wirelessfaqs/f/extendwifirange.htm)

What you're talking about is something like this:

XAVNB2001 (http://www.netgear.co.uk/home/products/powerline-and-coax/work-and-play/XAVNB2001.aspx)

That's one choice. Creating a wifi mesh would be another choice.

[Keef]

If the house next door is a mate and friendly, then I'd be inclined to buy a long Cat5 cable and run it to your place. If it won't reach that far, is there an outbuilding where you can attach a Wireless access device to a Cat 5 cable from his router?

I live in a long thin house, with a workshop some way off from one end. I had all kinds of problems till I bought a separate WAP and put it at the "other end" of the house from the main wireless modem router. I now have full coverage all over the house, workshop, and garden.

[419]

I also used to think that signal boosters were a waste of money until I bought one of these

Amazon.com: Alfa AWUS036H 1000mW 1W 802.11b/g USB Wireless WiFi network Adapter with 5dBi Antenna and Suction cup Window Mount dock - for Wardriving & Range Extension: Electronics

Over the past few months I've used it along with my laptop in many locations, and it has always helped. (most of the many reviews state the same).
Apart from boosting the signal from the router I was intending to use, it always shows loads more (many of which are often totally unencrypted), and whilst staying in hotels, I have "borrowed" these open networks to send the odd e-mail or two.

[mixture]

Apparently there's a thing you can plug into a mains socket which distributes the signal.

No, no, no ! Those things are a BAD THING (TM).

See, for example, this very interesting document recently released by the BBC. (http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/rd/pubs/whp/whp-pdf-files/WHP195.pdf)

Leave your electrical cabling to do what it does best .... transmitting volts and amps, not bits and bytes !

[mixture]

If the house next door is a mate and friendly, then I'd be inclined to buy a long Cat5 cable and run it to your place. If it won't reach that far, is there an outbuilding where you can attach a Wireless access device to a Cat 5 cable from his router?

Technically, going between buildings, you should use fibre, not copper.

It's not that much more expensive... especially with the short distance enabling you to use multimode and transceivers with cheap short distance lasers.

[Mr Optimistic]

What sort of router are you using? I recently bought a new 'draft n' capable one and the wireless coverage was much improved.

[M.Mouse]

Powerline does work with limitations. Its been around here for quite some years now. It works if you stay in the ring main. Speed is not that great and if the signal goes through the circuit breaker box it screws it.

Sorry I have to disagree. I have used them where the router was at the end of a large old house and where the signal was required was in a stand alone annexe fed via a sub-main.

The whole thing works faultlessly and is not discernibly slow enough to be of concern.

mixture links to a report that indicates that interference CAN occur. Judging by the hundreds in operation I am not sure how much of an issue it is.

I use Solwise Homeplugs (http://www.solwise.co.uk/net-powerline.htm)

At under £40 to solve your problem completely in a matter of minutes it strikes me as being something of a no-brainer.

Just my opinion of course.

[Spurlash2]

I have used Devolo dLAN Ethernet (http://www.devolo.co.uk/consumer/dlan-mains-supply-network-via-powerline.html?l=en)plugs for the last 3 years. Nothing wrong with them. Work absolutely fine.

[Spurlash2]

extend your wireless signal. (http://www.crunchgear.com/2007/11/20/how-to-extend-your-wireless-range-for-5-cents/)

[WeeJeem]

...first of all, since it's internet access, lock it all down to 802.11g.

Then, since your friend is indeed a friend, ask them to lock the freqs down and move em whilst you try to find a good channel. Bear in mind that cordless phones, for example, share the spectrum but won't up on wifi analysers...

hth,
WJ

[letsjet]

Any router should reach 30' even if there are walls. Can you move the router a bit and see if it's an antenna issue? Did you try finding out which channel is providing the strongest signal and manually selecting it? You might be having interference from something else in that freq. range.

[Loose rivets]

Wow, lots to consider. Will give due thought when head clears.

Need to get it solid cos I'll be there for a looooong summer this year.

Router is in a square room of glass and plastic built on the back/side of an L shape. Rivetess is in (I think) next door but one - in the wrong direction. He needs his signal strength in other directions cos his computer room is in a shed in the garden. I happen to know these houses are 9" solid redbrick and carry water out of the ground despite being 70" high on the cliff edge. There's a well in his old computer room, and the most powerful dehumidifier couldn't cope with keeping it dry. So, walls are good cages I would think.


As I say, I'll read through again tomorrow - but I'm still at GMT -6 in Tumbleweed town.

[green granite]

PLT's are currently subject to a law suit being brought by the RSGB to make Ofcom enforce the EU regulation that they break. Ofcom knows they don't comply but refuses to enforce the law.

Also, they only work if the sockets are on the same phase which in the case under discussion, is unlikely to be the case as adjacent houses are wired to different phases so as to even up the loads.

[Mike-Bracknell]

Any router should reach 30' even if there are walls.
Wrong. Any wifi is subject to the surroundings, and if those walls are constructed with anything to block wifi there's precious little you can do about it. Incidentally, if you were unaware there's even wifi-blocking wallpaper marketed by someone like DuPont.

[Capetonian]

What I find odd is that my laptop will work fine out on my terrace some days, with 3 or 4 bars signal strength, the next day, nothing has changed, but it won't pick up a useable signal at all. Everything is the same position, all doors open, nothing more or less connected to the wifi. I don't know if the weather, for example humidity, might have an effect.

[mixture]

if you were unaware there's even wifi-blocking wallpaper marketed by someone like DuPont

More like BAE Systems.... to quote a press release (from 2004) :

UK defence contractor BAE Systems has developed a stealth wallpaper to beat electronic eavesdropping on company Wi-Fi networks.

The company has produced panels using the technology to produce a screen that will prevent outsiders from listening in on companies' Wi-Fi traffic but let other radio and mobile phone traffic get through.

The FSS (Frequency Selective Surface) panels are made in the same way as printed circuit boards - layers of copper on Kapton polymer - and used on stealth bombers and fighter jets. They come in two varieties: passive, which is effectively permanent, and active, where various areas can be switched on and off to enlarge or limit the area of the network.

The panels are 50 to100 microns thick and can be applied to most surfaces including glass. A company spokesman claimed that they also helped reduce "noise" in buildings where a number of companies operate their own separate LANs.

BAE Systems developed the new material with £145,000 of funding from the Radiocommunications Agency, which is now part of Ofcom. BAE says the material is cheap and it will be developing it commercially through BAE's corporate venture subsidiary.

[seacue]

Beware that "Wireless N" is an absolute zoo. There are lots of variations possible. Which one do you have? Many require cooperating hardware at both ends of the link. Multiple antennas for spatial diversity are a minimum. But there are many, many other variations.
IEEE 802.11n-2009 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEEE_802.11n-2009)

[Mike-Bracknell]

More like BAE Systems.... to quote a press release (from 2004) :

That was them....I should never post from an iPhone without opening a new window to check!

[Mr Optimistic]

Think the issue with wireless is generally more about multipath 'self' interference than brute signal strength. I don't know the 'logic' windows applies to latching on to a signal but it seems impenetrable to, erm, logic. Are there any big chunks of metal in the LOS (eg hot water tank or an upmarket range cooker) ?

While you can't beat a straight forward cable connection that isn't always possible. I did buy powerlink connectors (din't know about the sw interference) but a new router happened along (with 3 aerials) and that solved it, so haven't used the mains.

In teh early days I spent many (many many) hours faffing about with dlink stuff and wds with no consistent results (laptop would 'pick' the wrong signal) and only stopped when the wife decided I should do something more productive with my life.

So I think I would make sure neighbourly interference wasn't a problem (netstumbler or something), try channel extremes, make sure the network card settings are right and then if necessary spend £50 on something with lots of aerials !

[Mike-Bracknell]

So I think I would make sure neighbourly interference wasn't a problem (netstumbler or something)

Netstumbler has a nasty habit of not wanting to work on Windows7. Try InSSIDer instead :ok:

[Keef]

Those powerline devices should be banned! I suspect that if the RSGB gets OFCOM to do its job, they will be. As said, they will only work if both ends are on the same phase, and then only over a limited distance. Meanwhile, they are transmitting on frequencies for which they are not authorised, and causing interference to the services that are authorised for those frequencies.

I've developed a simple rule of thumb that says a typical 802.11g wireless router has a range of 50 feet, three normal internal walls, two brick walls, or any permutation thereof. I think a Cat5 cable heading towards your house to as close as it can get, with a wireless access point on the end of it, is the way to go. If the Cat 5 will reach all the way, so much the better.

With wireless, it is (as said above) important to "sniff" the spectrum and pick a channel away from others in the neighbourhood. Then see if it works - if not, there may be a cordless phone around, in which case try another channel.

[Shunter]

Powerline works just fine for me and I don't find it interferes with anything else. I only use it to hook in the DL360 which lives in the garage roof-space, the house is all wireless. I'd suggest wall thickness and environmental concerns are likely to be huge variables in all instances. Fortunately my house is fairly new so the wall are made of cheese.

[green granite]

Powerline works just fine for me and I don't find it interferes with anything else.

No thought then for the poor sod next door trying to listen to the world service, or the amateur radio enthusiast 2 doors down. . :ugh::ugh:

[M.Mouse]

From one brand I read this:

HomePlug has expended substantial efforts to ensure that products designed to the HomePlug specification
can meet these requirements. To meet the radiation limits imposed by FCC part 15 rules, the specification
limits the maximum signal level that can be injected on to the power line. Tests conducted by FCC certified
labs in various regions of United States show that the maximum signal levels incorporated in the
specifications result in emissions that are below the part 15 limits. HomePlug also limits its power spectral
density around the amateur-radio bands by inserting 30-dB notches for the HAM bands in 4.5- to 21-MHz
HomePlug frequency range. Due to this notching of HAM bands, only 76 OFDM carriers are usable in
HomePlug products operating in United States. Joint testing conducted by HomePlug and ARRL showed
that, in general, with a moderate separation of the antenna from the structure containing the HomePlug
signal, interference was barely perceptible. HomePlug is also compatible with other low speed powerline
technologies like CEBus, X10 and LonsWorks as they operate in different frequencies.

Full paper here. (http://www.solwise.co.uk/downloads/files/hp_1.0_technicalwhitepaper_final.pdf)

There seems to be some vehement protest about these units but given the thousands in use is intereference a real or theoretically possibole problem?

[vulcanised]

4.5- to 21-MHz


How considerate! Especially if you want to operate on 80mtrs or Top Band.

[Mr Optimistic]

30db isn't much when you are in the vicinty, sounds like an admission of guilt. SW receiver specs look for 'skirt' rejections of 60db (if I remember) and noise signals at 1 microvolt/metre. Had a big argument with Phillips when the first colour tvs came out as they wiped everything below 14MHz.

[Spurlash2]

So, would a street with a powerline-networked house(s) cause more problems with short wave radio enthusiasts, or would a street full of WiFi networks be worserer?

Found the following text to see if I really am a bad person with my 85Mbps PLT.

"The 200Mbit devices are only a problem on the shortwave bands, so unless you listen to shortwave radio broadcasts or CB then you won't notice any problems. However, if you ever decide to upgrade to the new Gigabit versions, or one of your neighbours gets them fitted, then you might notice problems with FM and DAB."

Only asking!

Let's all play nicely, now.

[Mr Optimistic]

Blimey, DAB would be an issue :)

[Loose rivets]

Haven't had time to do much today . . . thought being old was going to mean cruising all the time.

Found out it is a Netgear unit.

Downloaded and installed inSSIDer, thinking I should get to grips with it before wife has a go at it. However, it told me I needed Auto Configure on, and any interruption to my system right now would cause chaos as I near my departure date, so chickened out.

I can't mess with my pal's system at all. No way I can run anything out of a newish conservatory, 'twould be like fitting a snazzy spotlight to a spaceship - it would surely leak, and the white plastic swarf would give me away.

It's going to take time to really digest the posts (thanks for them by the way.) so it may be covered, but very simply, can I add something to the laptop and hang it out of the window? (the something, not the laptop. :hmm:) Then, is it simply a case of turning off the wi-fi switch on the front of the HP, and setting up the something on a USB input?

Both our laptops are on Vista, bit of a nuisance, but they were both incredibly cheap.

[seacue]

Try a USB WiFi dongle. You can then use a USB extender cable to place the dongle in a window (or try other places around the room). They are priced from $15 to LOTS.

The extender cable has a male connector on one end, female on the other. They are not extremely common.

[mixture]

is intereference a real or theoretically possibole problem?

The problem is not theoretical.

See the link to the BBC white paper I've already posted on this thread for one of many possible examples.

I hope RSGB win their lawsuit and the things get properly regulated.

[Ancient Observer]

Loose,

1. Walton on the Naze has never, ever, ever had a looong summer. Neither has Frinton.

2. I would vote for the Homeplug. Mine works very well and does not disturb any broadcasts. None.

[green granite]

2. I would vote for the Homeplug. Mine works very well and does not disturb any broadcasts. None.

You have a shortwave receiver then and have checked all the broadcast bands between 2.3Mhz and 26.1Mhz then.

[Loose rivets]

Summer of '59 was spiffing. Swimming in the backwaters was like a heated pool.


Noticed on Giggle Earth, I can get a triangle from one of his shed roofs back to the flat's rear window. That seems to spell out a signal booster. Though I'm not sure how long it would survive there.

In haste.

[Capetonian]

You have a shortwave receiver then and have checked all the broadcast bands between 2.3Mhz and 26.1Mhz then.

Technically this is absolutely valid, but a little cynical and theoretical in the context. In these days, in 'the first world', for want of a better phrase, how many people are using SW receivers covering the 120-11 metre bands. I appreciate that there are radio amateurs, DXers, people who use standard time signals, monitor marine broadcasts, and so on, but this is a tiny percentage of the population.

For most people, the homeplug would seem to be a good solution. Talking about this to friends locally I've discovered that they use it between their main property and and outhouse used as a study, and it works well and has not caused any interference with various hifis, wifis, satellite and terrestrial TV, or normal FM (95-105 Mhz) and AM (MW) broadcasts.

[green granite]

So your quite happy to use a piece of equipment that has been illegally signed off as complying with EU regs then? Bet you'd complain like hell if you couldn't unlock your car because a legal radio transmitter was blocking the frequency just because the car manufacture's decided to chance that it wouldn't happen.

[Capetonian]

So your quite happy to use a piece of equipment that has been illegally signed off as complying with EU regs then?

Yes, and I'd eat cucumbers that aren't the rgiht radius of curvature, and wipe my backside with loo- paper that doesn't have the right number of perforations too. I'd probably use it just to put two fingers up at the monstrous incompetent organisation that has crept like a cancer into so much of peoples' lives.

Our cars lock and unlock with something like this http://www.hem-of-his-garment-bible-study.org/images/old-key.jpg and not these new fangled radioactive thingummies.

[Spurlash2]

This should keep Mixture happy.

Story in El Reg HERE (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/05/17/gchq_plt/). The comments at the end of the story are good fun, as well.