Identify this helo: Bin Laden compound

[SansAnhedral]

http://img856.imageshack.us/img856/169/article13828590be1e4ac0.jpg

http://img855.imageshack.us/img855/2794/article13828590be1e40f0.jpg

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/05/03/article-1382859-0BE1F64C00000578-384_470x423.jpg

saw these in the comments section of AvWeek blogs....supposedly this was the crashed MH60K from the UBL raid.

A 5 bladed TR on a hawk derivative would seem an awfully substantial modification.

[Flap 5]

How about a Commanche?

RAH-66 Comanche - Reconnaissance/Attack Helicopter - Army Technology (http://www.army-technology.com/projects/comanche/)

[hoodie]

That's no fan-in-fin.

[Exbat]

Have to agree - not a fenestron style hub. Also the tail setion looks strange for an MH60.
Notice the horizontal stab seems to have an angled plan form.
Not got a clue!!! :confused:

[eivissa]

http://www.spiegel.de/images/image-209764-galleryV9-nldh.jpg


Update: a little wider angle
http://i54.tinypic.com/hs13tf.jpg

[Exbat]

Is it just me or do these two photos look different?
Eivissa's appear to have no tail rotor on the top of the fin unlike the one from Sans with the shrouded 5 blader.

[SansAnhedral]

Stealth Helos Used In Osama Raid (http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/blogs/defense/index.jsp?plckController=Blog&plckBlogPage=BlogViewPost&newspaperUserId=27ec4a53-dcc8-42d0-bd3a-01329aef79a7&plckPostId=Blog%3a27ec4a53-dcc8-42d0-bd3a-01329aef79a7Post%3a275902dd-e7a2-40fd-ab78-d46e3bf922b1&plckScript=blogScript&plckElementId=blogDest)

[Aser]

I would bet for a modified blackhawk or other TRANSPORT helicopter (not comanche), you wouldn't be hovering above the house in a combat helicopter.

Anyway... Amazing!

Regards
Aser

[LowObservable]

Well, that's easy - it's an...

excuse me, there's someone outside the window with a g

gfsn,zxsdkjng.xdfkhjgn

[Senior Pilot]

http://www.spiegel.de/images/image-209764-galleryV9-nldh.jpg

And what's left on the other side of the wall:confused:

:E

[Aser]

SP,
The picture from the other side...
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/05/03/article-1382859-0BE1F75E00000578-504_964x684.jpg
:E

[SASless]

So what is new about "stealth" helicopters being used by the US Armed forces and CIA? There's been a long discussion about this Hughes 500 project that was used in the Vietnam War. Why would the CIA/US Military not continue in those secret efforts.

Air America's Black Helicopter (http://www.ifma-austin.org/facs/BlackHel.htm)

[Dimitris]

guys I'm not a pilot, but show in some 'forums' that it might have been a decoy to convince Pakistani people that their government really didn't know. Sounds far fetched to be but I'm not flying those things...

[birrddog]

This was NAVY Seal Team 6...

Clearly that is the lower drive unit of one of their rubber duckies outboards....

:8

[Mungo5]

Rotate some of the photo's.. you'll see there seems to be a large fairing or housing round the TRGB, and certainly the 'dinnerplate' is echod on the vertical stab too.

[Peter-RB]

Could be some commanche mated with the 500, to become a super stealth, so steathy that they diddnt hear the other till they mated just above GL, and the result is toasted stealth....??

to quote.. "the answer is out there" didnt this also happen in the Desert of Iran a few Decades ago.?

Peter R-B

[mac oz]

a modify balck-sea hawk

[whodictus]

Has anyone thought of a modifided CH 53 with that size tail boom and 5 bladed TR cann't see it being a Blackhawk.

[forget]

I smell a rat

Can't disagree there. So where are the 'indestructable' bits?

[Cows getting bigger]

Whatever Chuck was driving I'm guessing he needs a little practice on his confined areas. :)

[Andy Brandt]

The plot thickens!
I'm sure the research from the RAH-66 Project didn't go to waste!

[311kph]

Maybe not, but that pile of crap doesn't look like it was once a real aircraft.
Too neat...
This is what it looks like when something stealthy crashes:

http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/5094/f117serbia.jpg (http://img231.imageshack.us/i/f117serbia.jpg/)
F117 in Serbia, 1999

So, why not use the opportunity and get the competition thinking ...
:yuk:

[SASless]

a modify balck-sea hawk

What....now the Roosians are involved?:eek:

[forget]

851Pilot has nailed it. (But where are the other bits:confused: )

http://www.pprune.org/military-aircrew/450526-stealth-uh60-used-obl-raid-2.html#post6428762

[John Eacott]

311kph,

I read that the wreck was destroyed, most likely thermite grenades or similar. I doubt the F-117 driver in Serbia was in a position to have much to do with his wreckage after he ejected!

[FlyHiGuy]

Hello fellow rotor heads. I don't doubt that its possible that some sort of quieting TR has been developed for the H-60 but something seems fishy about these two sets of pics. The one with the mystery 5-bladed hub is taken of an assembly of some sort that is sort of depicted to show it strewn over a wall. This wall is completely different than the wall in the other photos. In addition, the assembly itself seems to be not genuine aviation construction - it almost looks like a welded seam going up what would/could/should be the vertical tail structure. Anyway - the photos that are all over the press show the brick constructed wall and that is clearly an S-70/H-60 tail. It does indeed look like it could be an MH-60K because it has the Naval Hawk's foldable rectangular stabilators in lieu of the more rounded standard Black Hawk stabilator. Just as with the Marine/HMX-1 Presidential VH-60N hybrids, the "Special K's" were made to be shipboard compatible. ANyway - back to the main issue: that odd mystery structure just somehow doesn't seem genuine to me based on the wall - not on the viability of the tail design...Any other POV's welcome though - this is just my first reaction.

[Freewheel]

Whatever it is, I'll bet Lyn Tilton is pissed she missed out on the contract to build it.......:E

[Frenchrotorhead]

The last picture of that "Fenestron" looking thing shows that it is absolutely huge, take a look at the guy to the left and compare...
Also, something strange about the hub, it looks a bit fake.

The line looking like a weld on what we'll call the tail boom seems more like damage to composite structure after a crash than a weld to me.

[rabidcat]

It seems the press agrees that this tail section is 'odd'

Top Secret Stealth Helicopters used in Bin Laden Raid (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/05/04/stealth_chopper_bin_laden_raid/)

I am a fledgling pilot with minimal experience and the first time I saw this tail it didn't sit right with me.

[Brilliant Stuff]

Maybe it's a Glider a la World War 2? ;)

[trackdirect]

try this one for size!

Link to dummy image created to troll! (http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=155097)

[Shawn Coyle]

Since this is a rumour network, I'd heard a rumour from a very well placed source that the US Army special ops folks had some stealth Blackhawks since - are you ready for this? - the mid '80s....
Nice to see they were able to keep 'em quiet for that long.
I can only wonder what wonderous sights those boys have seen.

[hotzenplotz]

It's hard to believe that these super-duper-specops guys forget to clean up their mess properly.

[birrddog]

Trac, since when did Eurocopter make Blackhawks? ;)

Maybe the pilot kicked in left instead of right pedal :-)

(assuming the rotors as shown in that drawing turn "the wrong way")

[hotzenplotz]

http://www.abload.de/img/dybhqkx08.jpg

http://www.abload.de/img/rxvqmnbuh.jpg

[Aser]

another interesting link
Active Sensors | NASA SELECTS ACTIVE SENSORS RVDT?S FOR LATEST BLACKHAWK STEALTH PROJECT (http://www.activesensors.com/news/7)

Regards
Aser

[rabidcat]

So, now that we established they are likely stealthy blackhawks... The next question is, was this a 'mechanical failure' or did that thing get blown on to the wire topped fence when they destroyed the thing? Kinda hints at a tail strike...
Anyone? Mr. Coyle?

[SansAnhedral]

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2011/5/4/1304535578285/U.S.-special-forces-assau-005.jpg

You can clearly see a standard S70/UH60 series pitch horn in this picture, just slightly left of center.

http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.com/AWA1/401-500/walk461_UH60_Spenard/12.jpg

[AdamFrisch]

Images are legit and come from numerous news agencies. So I guess it must be true.

[rabidcat]

Just wanted to add, and yes it's totally off topic, but his million dollar mansion looks like a hovel. The construction is shoddy and there is a real lack of landscaping or any kind of flair to that place. Too much living in caves I guess... And for all of the trouble of big walls and privacy fencing, there sure seems a lack of security or true fortification to this place. After all, we did land at least one blackhawk in it. It will be interesting to see what else is revealed about this hovel of a compound. Makes me really wonder how much he relied on Paki intel for his early warning system. Just glad he's dead, God Bless America and the troops :ok:

[Mikester540]

Rather interesting

Mock-up of what the 'stealth' MH-60 would look like...

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=155135&d=1304520018

[mfriskel]

So much for the integrity of a "retired special ops aviator". I guess money talks in all circles! Then to be printed in an "Official or Semi-Official" military publication.

Mission helo was secret stealth Black Hawk - Air Force News | News from Afghanistan & Iraq - Air Force Times (http://www.airforcetimes.com/news/2011/05/army-mission-helocopter-was-secret-stealth-black-hawk-050411/)

Mission helo was secret stealth Black Hawk



By Sean D. Naylor ([email protected]?subject=Question%20from%20AirForceTimes.c om%20reader) - Staff writer
Posted : Wednesday May 4, 2011 18:07:39 EDT
The helicopters that flew the Navy SEALs on the mission to kill Osama bin Laden were a radar-evading variant of the special operations MH-60 Black Hawk, according to a retired special operations aviator.
The helicopter’s low-observable technology is similar to that of the F-117 Stealth Fighter the retired special operations aviator said. “It really didn’t look like a traditional Black Hawk,” he said. It had “hard edges, sort of like an … F-117, you know how they have those distinctive edges and angles — that’s what they had on this one.”
In addition, “in order to keep the radar cross-section down, you have to do something to treat the windshield,” he said. If a special coating was applied to the windshield it is “very plausible” that would make the helicopter more difficult to fly for pilots wearing night-vision goggles, he said. The helicopters carrying the SEALs arrived over the bin Laden compound at about 1 a.m. Monday morning local time. One crash landed in the courtyard and was so badly damaged it was unable to take off again.
That crash landing might have been caused by a phenomenon known as “settling with power,” which occurs when a helicopter descends too quickly because its rotors cannot get the lift required from the turbulent air of their own downwash. “It’s hard to settle with power in a Black Hawk, but then again, if they were using one of these [low-observable helicopters], working at max gross weight, it’s certainly plausible that they could have because they would have been flying so heavy,” the retired special operations aviator said, noting that low-observable modifications added “several hundred pounds” to the weight of the MH-60, which already weighs about 500 to 1000 pounds more than a regular UH-60 Black Hawk.
The special operations troops on the bin Laden mission destroyed the stricken aircraft — most likely using thermite grenades — but the resultant fire left the helicopter’s tail boom, tail rotor assembly and horizontal stabilizers intact in the compound’s courtyard.
Photographs of the wreckage taken the next day raced around the Internet, creating a firestorm of speculation among military aviation enthusiasts because the tail of the helicopter did not resemble any officially acknowledged U.S. military airframe.
This was to be expected, the retired special operations aviator said. “Certain parts of the fuselage, the nose and the tail had these various almost like snap-on parts to them that gave it the very unique appearance,” he said. He and another source referred to the disc-shaped device that is seen covering the tail rotor in the photographs as a “hubcap.”
If the radar-evading technology worked, it “would be a true statement” to say that the use of the low-observable Black Hawks was evidence that the United States gave Pakistani authorities no advance warning of the mission, the retired special operations aviator added.
The low-observable program started with AH-6 Little Bird special operations attack helicopters in the 1980s, said the aviator. During the 1990s U.S. Special Operations Command worked with the Lockheed-Martin Skunk Works division, which also designed the F-117, to refine the radar-evading technology and apply it to the 160th Special Operations Aviation Regiment’s MH-60s, he said. USSOCOM awarded a contract to Boeing to modify several MH-60s to the low-observable design “in the ’99 to 2000 timeframe,” he said.
Initial plans called for the low-observable Black Hawks to be formed into a new unit commanded by a lieutenant colonel and located at a military facility in Nevada, the retired special operations aviator said. “The intent was always to move it out west where it could be kept in a covered capability,” he said.
USSOCOM planned to assign about 35 to 50 personnel to the unit, the retired special operations aviator said. “There were going to be four [low-observable] aircraft, they were going to have a couple of ‘slick’ unmodified Black Hawks, and that was going to be their job was to fly the low-observables.”
SOCOM canceled those plans “within the last two years,” but not before at least some of the low-observable helicopters had been delivered to the Nevada facility, the retired aviator said. “I don’t know if it was for money or if it was because the technology was not achieving the reduction in the radar cross-section that they were hoping for,” he said. In the meantime, MH-60 Black Hawk crews from the 160th’s 1st Battalion, headquartered at Fort Campbell, Ky., would rotate to Nevada to train on the stealthy aircraft, he said.
The low-observable MH-60s were armed with the same sort of door mini-guns as standard MH-60s, he said. “There was not a DAP conversion,” he added, referring to the MH-60 variant known as the Direct Action Penetrator, which is equipped with stub wings upon which can be fitted a variety of armaments.
The early versions of the low-observable Black Hawks were not fitted with air-to-air refueling probes, the retired special operations aviator said. “The probe would disrupt the ability to reduce the radar cross-section,” he added. “There was no way to put some kind of a hub or cowling over the probe that would make it stealthy.” However, he said he did not know whether the models that flew the bin Laden mission had been equipped with such probes.
USSOCOM spokesman Army Col. Tim Nye said his command had no comment for this story.

[krypton_john]

Those tail photos look like any old AB139 taxiing mishap to me.

<ducks>

[mfriskel]

Now now- you aren't saying that GHC has gotten themselves involved in covert operations? Could this be why Ned was over there taking photos this week?

[MEDEVAC_CREW_DAWG]

I have been a crew chief on a black hawk for 5 years now, and have been working on them for 7. If you look at the burned pile you can see the main rotor head with the shaft extension on it, and the five pack (transmission assembly) in the frame. The tail is extremely modified, but you can see the driveshaft and flex coupling hanging over the wall. I have never seen a tail like that, but no one had ever seen the SR 71 Black Bird either until it was declassified and released to the public.

[rotorrookie]

Inside bin Laden's Compound (http://www.reuters.com/subjects/bin-laden-compound)

two more of that funny tail rotor

[whitus1]

Just confirmed on the news that it was indeed a special varient of the blackhawk, designed to make very little noise, would be interested to see if anybody has a picture of one of these in one piece?

[Zishelix]

Oups, my bad... seams info I have been already posted here :O

[prehar]

Mikester540
Thats a impressive Stealth Black Hawk you've generated ....I would have liked a retractable refuelling probe ...could you do that too please ??Or get David Cenciotti to do it ?? That will probably reduce its RCS .
Also , flying through hills and at low level at night thro radar gaps ....Is there really a requirement of Stealth for a Special Ops helo that standoff EW aircraft or UAVs can't handle ?? Given that the Black Hawk would get so much more heavier and probably loose performance too as a tradeoff for Stealth !!
Shawn or Nick ....or anyone else there ....could you enlighten us ??

[heli-cal]

The pre-crash image...

http://images.mocpages.com/user_images/10576/1266712952m_SPLASH.jpg

[SansAnhedral]

looks like someone else spotted whatI was referring to on the last page

http://defensetech.org/2011/05/05/evidence-that-the-mystery-bin-laden-helo-was-an-mh-60/

[hoodie]

A couple of questions I'd be interested in knowing the answers to:

1. Is the S-92 rotorhead (and dynamics) substantially the same as the S-70/H-60? (In other words, given SansAnhedral's point, might the fuselage of the MH-xx be based on the '92 rather than the '70?)

2. Is that mystery tail rotor canted like an H-60's? I can't tell from any of the published photos. (Rather, I can convince myself either way!)

[hotzenplotz]

http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/4127/72048016.jpg

This looks like a Black Hawk rotorhead.

http://defensetech.org/2011/05/05/evidence-that-the-mystery-bin-laden-helo-was-an-mh-60/

[SansAnhedral]

Is the S-92 rotorhead (and dynamics) substantially the same as the S-70/H-60? (In other words, given SansAnhedral's point, might the fuselage of the MH-xx be based on the '92 rather than the '70?)


The 92 rotor head is significantly different. The S70 series uses a spindle/sleeve retention, whereas the S92 uses a hub/yoke/cuff setup which yields a vastly different layout.

[hoodie]

Thanks, SA - so main rotor head definitely(?!) an H-60, at least. The rest of the aircraft may or may not be based on Blackhawk, but I guess most likely is.

Other thoughts possibly answerable now:

- Stabilator or fixed stabiliser? (The following is probably not answerable now: If the latter, why no need to be movable for low speed pitch stability, like H-60 is? Thinks: Maybe clue to controllability, or lack of, at night close to a Pakistani wall? :8)

- Any pictures available of the main rotor blade tips? (Possibly unburnt, given other images?)

- That tail rotor cant angle (0, 20 or other)?

[hillerman]

5 May 2011 Last updated at 22:20 ET Share this pageEmailPrint
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'Stealth helicopters' used in Bin Laden raid
By Tom Geoghegan and Sarah Shenker
BBC News
The US forces who raided the safehouse of Osama Bin Laden appear to have caught him completely by surprise - and to have avoided detection by Pakistani radar. How did they do it?

One answer, experts believe, is that the special operations team used previously unseen stealth helicopters.


Continue reading the main story
1. Silver finish makes it harder to detect on radar and by infrared sensors

2. Shape of tailboom has been altered and possibly enlarged to evade radar

3. Pan-like cover or hubcap over the rear rotor head conceals exposed machinery which is more easily picked up on radar

4. Extra blades on tail rotor reduce noise and lessen typical chopper sound

Rest of aircraft: There is speculation that the main rotor could also have had extra blades, retractable landing gear and a cover over the main rotor head

Source: Aviation Week

The evidence for this comes from images of the wreckage of one of the helicopters, which departing Seals destroyed after it crash landed in the compound.

The tail of the top secret aircraft survived, however, providing a treasure chest of clues for aviation experts.

After some detective work, these experts have concluded it was a UH-60 Blackhawk, heavily modified to make it quieter and less visible to radar.

They are confident the raid marks the first time that a stealth helicopter has been used operationally.

It wouldn't be the first of its kind in existence, however. Sikorsky Aircraft built a number of prototype stealth helicopters, known as the RAH-66 Comanche, for the US Army. The programme was cancelled in 2004, due to escalating costs, before the helicopter become operational.


The RAH-66 Comanche had some stealth technologies
"What's new here is this was operational use," says Bill Sweetman, editor of Aviation Week. "We really haven't seen stealth helicopters used in this way before.

"The bottom line is about increasing the element of surprise. The less warning that the target has the better."

In this kind of situation an escape route for the aircraft might be needed, he adds, in which case time is of the essence.

To make a helicopter stealthy, you have to get rid of certain shapes and areas that are easily picked up on radar, says Tony Osborne, deputy editor of Rotary, a UK-based helicopter magazine.


Children collected parts of the wreckage
"You have to cover key parts so that the radar waves bounce in different directions or get absorbed...

"The tail rotor gearbox is covered. I've never seen that before in a helicopter. We know things are being played with all the time, but it is impressive to see it put into action."

The tail fin is completely smooth and appears coated in a pearlescent material that looks silver in some lights, and black in others, says Mr Osborne.

"I've only ever seen that on stealth aeroplanes, and it would probably absorb radar waves. Even the rivets are covered - radars are very sensitive and small rivets could give it away.

"The tail boom remains suggest the landing gear was retractable - again, usually it could be detected by radar, so retracting it would help avoid radar detection.

Continue reading the main story
And don't forget the dogs...

Several reports say an unidentified canine was strapped to a human member of the Seals team as he was lowered into the compound
It was most likely needed to check for hidden explosives
New York Times says it was most likely a German Shepherd or Belgian Malinois, according to military sources
"It looks like the tail rotor has five or six blades. This would mean the rotor could have a slower rotation, which would mean less noise. Noise is caused by the blade tips spinning at high speed, hitting the air."

Slipping under the radar can also be possible without stealth technology. Most of Pakistan's radars are on the ground, and therefore angled in such a way that makes low-flying aircraft difficult to detect, Mr Osborne says.

A Pakistani intelligence official who wished to remain anonymous told the BBC's Syed Shoaib Hasan that the helicopters were not picked up on radar and were only detected when seen entering the country from Afghanistan.

He said there were four helicopters, coming in very low.

There has been speculation that there was one more stealth helicopter, identical to the one that crashed, and that these were used as pathfinders, backed up by two larger Chinooks.

[FoxtrotAlpha18]

The children picking up bits of burned and shredded composite pieces was a bit of a worry - that stuff can be toxic as hell! :uhoh:

[Peter PanPan]

" The US forces who raided the safehouse of Osama Bin Laden appear to have caught him completely by surprise - and to have avoided detection by Pakistani radar. How did they do it?"

Any thoughts about this BBC article? BBC News - 'Stealth helicopters' used in Bin Laden raid (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-13297846)

[Dave_Jackson]

Could it have been a custom unpowered gyrocopter that was towed at a high elevation to the area, then released. Nice and quite.

http://www.unicopter.com/NoIdea.gif

[hoodie]

No.

If it had been a gyro, there'd be no need for a tail rotor.

[Dave_Jackson]

Hoodie,
If it had been a gyro, there'd be no need for a tail rotor.

Basically true. But the flight path could have been relatively benign, which would allow the craft to have a high inertial rotor. This inertia could used for a no-roll landing, and in this situation yaw control would be desirable.

When the stealth deed is done, helicopters come in, do a pickup, and get the hell out of there. A planned destruction of the craft could have been timed to go off after the Seals had departed.

Again http://www.unicopter.com/NoIdea.gif


Dave

[fling-wing_1]

Dave,

Funny you should say that, years ago I came up with series of designs based around a powered rotor gyro concept. They ranged in size from a single seat seat proof of concept to a three seat version and finally a 6-8 seat version. One scenario I envisioned was a high speed dash to target, a decelerating pop-up to an unpowered decent to target. Never got much beyond the initial design stage but I find it interesting that Eurocopter's compound is most similar in concept.

In recent years I've morphed those ideas into a UAV concept but alas I fear I've become too much of a libertarian to pursue it much beyond the concept stage.

Anyway, as Shawn has alluded to, there have been rumors for years about black budget helicopter projects. I for one would love to hear from others what sort of things have been swirling around the rumor mill.

Here's what I've heard over the years.

The mysterious single seat, faceted, notar, simitar shaped rotor, retractable gear and gun ship seen at unnamed military test sites. Testors possibly made a model of this years ago?

The rumor that Sikorsky's stopped rotor (X-wing) research project was cover for construction of one or more black budget examples.

Both of the above were referenced in an early 90's article in Aviation Leak. :oh:

From personel interaction:

The rumor of Notar equiped AH-64's being seen in the UK confirmed to me by a former company employee.

500 style UAV being operated from Albania along the border/into Serbia in the mid 90's by work associates.

Being told by a friend and former Ranger that aircraft were operating in central and south America that were lie nothing he had ever seen?

Alright, give it up gang, what have you seen/heard of? As Shawn said this is a rumor network afterall...

[Dave_Jackson]

fling-wing 1,

I agree with what you say and with Brilliant_Stuff when he said,Maybe it's a Glider a la World War 2?

Consider a large rotorcraft (gyrocopter/helicopter) that has no motor, no fuel, no primary transmission (just the main & tail connection), etc. etc. It would be a very light craft.

The glide ratio would be quite good and this would allow for a remote disconnect from the tow-craft. In addition, the pilot had probably practiced many landings with a high-inertia rotor at the mock-up of the compound in the US.

There would be no heat signature, no noise signature and a minimal radar signature. There also may not have been any damage on landing.

Apparently there was only one guard, who may have be taken down quietly.

Perhaps the Seals were in bin Laden's bedroom before he even woke up. :eek:

[birrddog]

Why would you do that instead of just parachuting in?

This would be thread drift so rhetorical question.

[Dave_Jackson]

rhetorical answer. :)

Perhaps the small size of the inner coartyard would be a problem for a group of parachutes?

[grumpytroll]

I think they tunneled in. They simply bore a hole from the east coast right up through the entire compound and UBL falls into the hole to their waiting arms. The helicopters need no fuel so they are lighter to carry and there is absolutely no radar signature.

:8

Cheers

[FlightPathOBN]

another image from the tail...

http://cdn4.digitaltrends.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/Navy-SEAL-secret-stealth-helicopter-650x485.jpg

http://www.wired.com/images_blogs/dangerroom/2011/05/mh-x3.jpg

[Monski]

According to Flight International magazine it is one of a small number of MH-60K's produced for the US special forces that has a reduced signature tail rotor shroud and faceted stabilators. It's a mission-specific kit developed by the 160th Special Operations Aviation Regiment at Fort Campbell, Kentucky.

[ARRAKIS]

Main rotor blades being taken away :

rotor2.jpg | arrakis | Fotki, Zdjcia, Obrazki Fotosik.pl (http://www.fotosik.pl/pokaz_obrazek/06a29c53ca947bfe.html)

rotor1.jpg | arrakis | Fotki, Zdjcia, Obrazki Fotosik.pl (http://www.fotosik.pl/pokaz_obrazek/0bc1768a9bbca68f.html)

They don't look like some andvanced blades to me.

And a fuel tank cap found

06helicopter.jpg | arrakis | Fotki, Zdjcia, Obrazki Fotosik.pl (http://www.fotosik.pl/pokaz_obrazek/73606f42b167131e.html)

Pictures found on the net (Reuters probably?).
Arrakis

[Ian Corrigible]

Pakistan let China see "stealth" chopper from bin Laden raid (http://news.yahoo.com/pakistan-let-china-see-stealth-chopper-bin-laden-182139386.html)

...presumably using low-frequency radar to look at the wreckage. :E

I/C

ISLAMABAD (Reuters) - Pakistan gave China access to the previously unknown U.S. "stealth" helicopter that crashed during the commando raid that killed Osama bin Laden in May despite explicit requests from the CIA not to, the Financial Times reported on Sunday.
The disclosure, if confirmed, is likely to further shake the U.S.-Pakistan relationship, which has been improving slightly after hitting its lowest point in decades following the killing of bin Laden.
During the raid, one of two modified Blackhawk helicopters, believed to employ unknown stealth capability, malfunctioned and crashed, forcing the commandos to abandon it.
"The U.S. now has information that Pakistan, particularly the ISI, gave access to the Chinese military to the downed helicopter in Abbottabad," the paper quoted a person "in intelligence circles" as saying on its website.
It said Pakistan, which enjoys a close relationship with China, allowed Chinese intelligence officials to take pictures of the crashed aircraft as well as take samples of its special "skin" that allowed the American raid to evade Pakistani radar.
One U.S. official, speaking on condition of anonymity, told Reuters there was reason to believe Pakistan had allowed the Chinese to inspect the aircraft. But the official could not confirm it happened with certainty.
No one from the Pakistani army was available for comment, but the Inter-Services Intelligence Directorate (ISI), Pakistan's top spy agency, denied the report. The paper said Pakistan's top general, chief of army staff Ashfaq Kayani, denied that China had been given access.
The surviving tail section, photos of which were widely distributed on the Internet, was returned to the United States following a trip by U.S. Senator John Kerry in May, a spokesman for the U.S. embassy told Reuters.
Shortly after the raid, Pakistan hinted that it might give China access to the helicopter, given its fury over the raid, which it considers a grievous violation of its sovereignty.
"We had explicitly asked the Pakistanis in the immediate aftermath of the raid not to let anyone have access to the damaged remains of the helicopter," the Financial Times quoted the source as saying.
In an incident such as the helicopter crash, it is standard American procedure to destroy sophisticated technology such as encrypted communications and navigation computers.
DISPLEASURE
Pakistan is a strategic ally to the United States but the relationship has been on a downward spiral since the killing of the al Qaeda leader in the raid by U.S. forces.
Islamabad was not informed in advance and responded by cutting back on U.S. trainers in the country and placing limits on CIA activities there.
The fact that the al Qaeda chief lived for years near the Pakistani army's main academy in the northwestern garrison town of Abbottabad reinforced suspicions in Washington about Islamabad's reliability in the war against militant Islamists.
There are also growing frustrations with Pakistan over its reluctance to mount offensives against militant factions in the northwest who are fighting U.S.-led foreign forces across the border in Afghanistan.
In a show of displeasure over Pakistan's cutback in U.S. trainers, its limits on visas for U.S. personnel and other bilateral irritants, the United States has suspended about a third of its $2.7 billion annual defense aid to Pakistan.
Despite this, both sides have tried to prevent a breakdown of relations.
The head of Pakistan's powerful Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI), Lieutenant-General Ahmad Shuja Pasha, visited the United States last month for talks with U.S. government and intelligence officials, which both sides said went well.
Despite the billions in aid, Pakistan still considers China a more reliable ally than the United States. China is a major investor in predominantly Muslim Pakistan in areas such as telecommunications, ports and infrastructure. The countries are linked by a Chinese-built road pushed through Pakistan's northern mountains.
Trade with Pakistan is worth almost $9 billion a year for Pakistan, and China is its top arms supplier.
In the wake of attacks that left 11 people dead in the China's western region of Xinjiang in late July, Pakistan dispatched the ISI's Pasha to Beijing.

[Moon Loon]

Pakistan let China see crashed US "stealth" copter (http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/08/15/pakistan-china-usa-idUSL5E7JE0DS20110815)

That stealth tail rotor could come in handy for China one of these days.

Any thoughts?

[WingSlinger]

I wouldn't trust the news too much. There is a lot going on, behind the scenes, to make any "public knowledge" unreliable. For example, Pakistanis could be giving the Chinese something that Americans want the Chinese to think they have the real McCoy.

[Bravo73]

That stealth tail rotor could come in handy for China one of these days.

Any thoughts?



Yep, according to the article, the tail is back in the USA:

The surviving tail section, photos of which were widely distributed on the Internet, was returned to the United States following a trip by U.S. Senator John Kerry in May, a spokesman for the U.S. embassy told Reuters.

[SMT Member]

Says its a mission specific kit developed by the 160th. Another way of saying bolt-on I suppose. Don't know what kind of budget they have (does anyone really), but I'd hazard a guess its stealthy shape reveals nothing new; from the pictures it looks like the kind of stealthy form seen on the Comanche and various UAVs. This makes me think it'll be down to whether the materials used are something fancy, or a bit of plywood held together by lots of black nasty. That's where the budget bit comes in, and I've no knowledge on that matter that leads me to favour either.

Still, not very nice of the Pakistanis letting the Chinese having a poke at the kit, if that was indeed what happened, when seen from a US (and lesser extent Western) perspective. I suppose, though, the view from Islamabad might have been quite a lot different. I know it's Bin Laden, I fully support what they did to take him out, but someone did land a farily large number armed forces well inside someone elses border, and they did do a fair amount of killing, noise making and crashing about in the process. It is not unexpected such action might have been a tad upsetting to the locals, especially as they've also been caught as bunch of lying culprits as a side note to the story, and that does led weak people to do stupid things.

[OvertHawk]

An armed strike by special forces inside sovereign territory is definitely going to upset the locals, but not nearly as much as half a dozen Tomahawks or the contents of a B52! ;)

[nomorehelosforme]

This might have been bought up before but can anyone talk about the machines that were involved in Bin Ladens last day? The only thing I know is one went gently down! Or are they still top secret?

[JoshG]

Read the book there's a bit of detail in there, well about as much as you will get.
Josh

[Good Vibs]

I guess you mean "secrecy" from secret?

[Savoia]

Some bedtime reading:

http://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/450511-identify-helo-bin-laden-compound.html

http://www.pprune.org/military-aircrew/450526-stealth-uh60-used-obl-raid.html

http://www.pprune.org/military-aircrew/450492-lost-navy-seals-helo-wot-really-happened.html

http://www.pprune.org/military-aircrew/492439-silent-hawk-pic-film-prop.html

http://www.pprune.org/military-aircrew/468347-ghost-hawk-stealth-hawk-green-box.html

[nomorehelosforme]

Thanks for replies

Josh shall track that down

GV sorry for the bad spelling and thanks for the correction!

Sav no surprise, you as always, have an enviable knowledge of anything to do with helicopters, thanks for the links and please keep up your great work on here

[500 Fan]

A photo of a prototype version of a UH-60 with some stealth modifications appeared on a U.S. scale modelling website a few years ago but was quickly removed again. It showed a standard Blackhawk heli with a stealthy pointed nose and other modifications to the forward facing surfaces of the airframe. The tail rotor on that particular Blackhawk was unmodified so the bin Laden raider was obviously a further, highly modified version, potentially, of the helicopter in that photo. The helicopter I saw was, if I remember correctly, photographed at Edwards Air Force Base and possibly dated from around 2000 or maybe even before that.

Given that the last known form of advanced technology that we know of tested at Area 51/Groom Lake is Stealth Technology (F-117, B-2, Beast of Kandahar etc) and that dates from the 1980's, God only knows what stuff they have flying there in more recent times. Even more interesting would be knowing what rotorcraft have been developed and tested there. The only stuff that appears to be known about is the C.I.A.'s Quiet One/Hughes 500P programme from 1971/72, the 160th SOAR training there in 1980/81 for the second (abandoned) attempt to rescue the Iranian Hostages and now the apparent bin Laden stealth helicopter.

500 Fan.

[Shawn Coyle]

A very knowledgeable source told me that the stealth Blackhawk program dates from the mid-80s, and was evidently used in Iraq before the 1st Gulf War - with the comment 'They never saw us'.
So what else is out there? Would be neat to know, but comforted by the thought that they're on our side.

[MightyGem]

Would be neat to know
Ahh, but then everyone would know. :=