CPL training in the USA then employment in Brazil

[B2N2]

How difficult is it to gain employment in Brazil after being trained in the USA?
Validation necessary/ If so how many hours extra?
Conversion required? how difficult as in how many written exams and flight exams have to be taken?
Job opportunities for ex-pat pilots in Brazil?
Job opportunities for Brazilian nationals?

[flyingswiss]

Due to the fact that you will have good English skills it won`t be hard for you to get a job, you will also have more TT then most fresh Brazilian CPLs and way better knowledge and skills, if in the states you train Part 61 then you will come down here with 250 hours, which is a lot more then what this pilots get here in their training.

If you are not a National forget it, not because it`s impossible but its really not worth it, you will sit long time doing nothing until all the papers come out, and with low experience there is not really much out there.

I would stay in the US, I just came back from Miami, the market is good, if you get your CFI you will find a job easy, the only ? is if the price of fuel keeps going up, that may slow down the market. You will need a lot more TT to get hired in the US, and probably it will take you couple more years to get on a similar plane you can get hired in Brazil with 300 hours...salary? well in the US it is lower but you will still have an higher standard of life, probably even with a regional airline wage you will be driving around a nicer car then a Capt in Brazil.

Just to give you an idea, as an Instructor in the US I was making about 1500$ a month, with the experience I had back then, probably here in Brazil I would have been 2 year into an airline making at least twice that. But to make the same type of life I was making in the US in Brazil I would have to make at least 7-8K dollars.

If you are not interested in the airlines, I would not leave the US, stay there CFI and network, sooner then later you will be flying around a King Air or a Citation and get a good wage.

All the infos you need are on the forum, it`s really annoying to post them every time so give a look around.

[B2N2]

Thanks Swiss.
I don't need a job, I have one.
The school I work for is considering taking on Brazilian students.
As a Brazilian National with a US (FAA) CPl ME IR, what do I need to do to convert/translate/validate in order to fly Commercially in Brazil?
We need this info in order to put a customized package together that would actually make sense for a Brazilain student.

Regards,

[flyingswiss]

Are you based out of Sebring?

Well there is not much you can do in the US to help him with the process once he is back in Brazil.

When he gets back to Brazil all he really needs is an FAA CPL AMEL IR, no SE, when he does the conversion and he does the ckride in a ME he will get the SE anyway. Would be nice if you are able to do some NDB training, even if just in an FTD, since that`s is all he will be tested on when he gets back.

You don`t have to worry about hours since even with part 141 he will have way more hours then any Brazilian fresh CPL holder.

[B2N2]

I've contacted teh ANAC but no real info sofar.
If a Brazilian National holds a US(FAA) CPL ME IR what is specifically needed for conversion/validation?
Written tests? Hours training?

[gonzags]

I believe that you need to do an air law exam and 5 hours of multi engine flight.

[flyingswiss]

1st class medical -> CPL-IR regulation test -> fly up to proficiency (you need to be day and night current) -> take the flight ck (no oral) just one flight, usually a bit of X-country with a single IFR app (no stalls, no Vmc...this are the standards here :ugh:)

B2N2 do you need a school here in Brazil to help you with the process for when they get back?

[sec_fac_elac]

Swiss, na boa, why don't you go back to your country? You will be much more happy.

[flyingswiss]

@sec_fac_elac: what`s the problem with you? is the truth so hard on you? Everything I write is from personal experience, when I make a comment on how the standards are I do it because I know how they could be and how THEY SHOULD BE! having seen the rest of the aviation world (and not only USA and EU). I don`t have a problem if aviation stays this way, as you mentioned since I`m not Brazilians I have no right in saying anything and should go back to my home country, I`m fine with that, I know it`s hard to take critic when you are that proud...I know what sucks about aviation in EU and I would say it out loud with no problems.

[sec_fac_elac]

Swiss, it's not personnel, really, you are wellcome in Brazil, but on your posts you emphasize the negative points and your negative experiences. You are very partial, and you can induce people. It's not a proud question, but I have my own experience in aviation, and I don't agree with you about the "standards" and I know a lot of places in Brazil. Do you know Alter do Chão, Boa Vista, Parintins, Joinvile, Curitiba, Ribeirão Preto, Uberlândia, Uberaba, Teresópolis, Buzios, Angra, Parati, Itacaré, Pipa, Caldas Novas, etc (I know those places)? Brazil is not Rio, São Paulo, Fortaleza, Recife, Salvador, etc. In aviation, I also have contact with extremely professional guys and "peladeiros". I had the oppotunity to fly in Amazon region, and even there I found the professional ones and the non professional. As I said, this is a huge country, continental, with a lot of differences. Try to read something about Gilberto Freyre, about brazilian "way"...take it easy buddy

[GBV]

1st class medical -> CPL-IR regulation test -> fly up to proficiency (you need to be day and night current) -> take the flight ck (no oral) just one flight, usually a bit of X-country with a single IFR app (no stalls, no Vmc...this are the standards here :ugh:)




Well, when i converted my foreign license in Brazil not long ago i did about 4 IFR apps (VOR, NDB, ILS). One of the VOR apps were flown simulating an engine failure. Besides that, i was required to do stalls and steep turns. Of course, in some airports there's no ILS intalled, so you may skip that one. Also, not everybody does an app in single engine during his/her check, it's up to the checkrider.


what`s the problem with you? is the truth so hard on you? Everything I write is from personal experience, when I make a comment on how the standards are I do it because I know how they could be and how THEY SHOULD BE! having seen the rest of the aviation world (and not only USA and EU).


You are right when you say that in some parts of Brazil standards are low, but there are a lot of good pilots too. I have been an expat for almost 5 years now (bush flying and wide-body experience) and honestly, i don't see anyone much better than myself and other Brazilians. Of course, you have folks who don't speak English and don't study, but you shouldn't say ALL Brazilians are like that.

BTW, i have been to the US and it didn't impress me. Aviation in Florida is as corrupt as in some parts of Brazil, most of the single-engine instructors are foreings working on J-1 visas trying to get some flying time. I doubt they are excellent instructors as you say. If you try to convert your FAA license in Europe they will laugh at you.

Bear in mind that with your attitude you wouldn't get a job in Brazil even being a Brazilian citzen. You couldn't even get that job to fly a C208 in Indonesia...:E

Cheers!

[3holer]

sec_fac_elac
:D:D:D Congrats on your post. That guy must have a problem. Everybody is fed up with his rants :ugh:
Cheers

[flyingswiss]

sec_fac_elac: nice post and good constructive answer, I have actually been to most of those places, my dad was an Engineer in Brazil when i was younger, I got too see most places that are not charted on tourists maps.

GBV: never said the pilots are bad, there is good and bad pilots everywhere, Florida is not really a good example of American Aviation or America in general, look where are the peoples from that run most flight schools...

I use to work for a flight school in the US, owned by BERKSHIRE HATHAWAY INC that was training Swiss Air, Lufthansa, OTR for FAB and the US Army and a ton of other airlines, corporate dept and military forces from all over the world all trained by American and some foreign instructors Accelerated Flight Training | Flying Lessons - FlightSafety Academy (http://www.flightsafetyacademy.com/)

About license conversion, have you done it? FAA->JAA ?

btw I flew the C208 for SUSI AIR (when they still had less then 10 planes), and I do have a job right now flying...with my attitude

[B2N2]

Ladies..can we get back on track?
If you want to continue do so on your own thread.

Thanks for the answers so far but it still doesn't quite cover what I need to know.
You may need to do this you may need to do that doesn't help.
Can requirements be found online somewhere?
What is the name of the written tests?
How long to you have, how many questions?
How to apply for it, how to apply for the flight exam?
sec_fac_elac can you give me more info?

I've sent an email to the ANAC guy that I spoke to but 4 days later still no reply.:mad:
I am not asking for miracles, not asking for tribal law, simply asking what the requirements are for conversion.
We actually want to offer a good product as in the applicant/customer is properly prepared and conversion ready.

[flyingswiss]

Get your medical first, I would do that in Rio, all the exams are done in-house, and you don`t have to pay for them extra. You can just show up and take the test, it`s gonna be 2 days long but most of the time you will just sit around, if you come from the US the only additional vaccination you will need to show is the yellow fever, you can get that one at the airport for free, or just write it your self on your current vaccination card, this is what I did. if it`s a woman taking the test there is a lot of additional exams you have to take before showing up.

You will have to take a psychological test, if you want to get a 100% in the test and skip all the BS, got to any book store and look at this books: O teste do desenho como instrumento diagnóstico and any book on Rorschach test, they will tell you how to pass them, yeah there is peoples that fail this test!

Then you need to go to ANAC and start a process:

You need to bring: ID, CPF, Voters Card, Military Enlistment Document (have no clue how you say this last two in English this is the best I could came up with), copy of conclusion of High School, Brazilian 1st class Medical, FAA medical and FAA licenses, two passport type photos.

After you turn in all your documents and fill the form they will give you a process number, now you have to wait until they get an hold of the FAA, and get the OK about the validity of your licenses. You have to periodically check with them using your process number, when you are cleared you can apply and take the written test, it`s the piloto comercial/Vôo Por Instrumentos one, sometimes they also make you take the VFR one, depends on their mood...you need to study this stuff, lots of things are a lot different then in the FARs (I have all the question they ask). There are 20 questions in the test and you need to get a 70% to pass, not sure how much time you have (I did it in 10 minutes). After you pass you can take the ck ride.

Stay away from books made by most flight schools to study, there is no QMS here and they are full of errors, buy books made by ASA, they have a book on the regulation written test.

Note: you can start flying as soon as you get your medical, after you pass the test you need to get the flight school to sign your logbook, you need to buy a Brazilian one (called CIV) and copy all your hours of the FAA one on it, I would do this already in the US when you start training up there. On the back there is a place for the school to write and sign the flight training you did. You then need to take the logbook to ANAC and they will tell you what fee you need to pay, after that you can schedule your ck ride. Most flights schools will have a CFI that does them, here in Rio the CFI that will do the ME training with you is also gonna do the ck ride, or you can get an hold of one of the private guys to come, the only one here in Rio is an old guy, former Navy guy, that will know close to nothing on the plane you will be flying and will just sat there, make sure your CFI will fly along. An other option is to do the ckride with a military guy that ANAC can schedule for you.. There is no PTS in Brazil!!!!!! so you never know what they can ask you, there is NO ORAL, and the regs say at least one IFR approach. Somebody mentioned above about doing the single engine app, as far as I know it`s not allowed anymore, have a friend that just became ck airman and they told him that, in the past it was only allowed down to a certain altitude. It makes sense I would never try to go around in a Seneca I or a Twin Comanche.

If you do the Ck ride on a ME you will get the SE engine too, even if you never flew a SE in your life.

When you are done the ck airman will take care of the paperwork, in this time I wold go and try to take the ICAO English test, so by the time your license comes out you will have it o it unless you will have to apply for an other one.

[flyingswiss]

B2N2 i think your problem is that you don`t put yourself in Brazilian mood, things here don`t work the same as in the US, when you call ANAC here most likely they will not have an answer for you or tell you something wrong. They don`t follow rules to the letter and sometimes you gotta go with the flow.

You are probably used to FSDO in the US, or talking to Oklahoma, forget it here. Information is poor and they are not so used to do foreign validations.

yeah there are written regs on validations, I only seen them ones, the president of a flight school showed them to me, ANAC is investing a lot of energy in doing everything on-line, which is great...but it`s still a work in progress.

here for every single things you have to show up in person and they dont send stuff by mail, they will never call you or let you know about any news you gotta be on top of them and keep bother them...that`s the only way to get things done here.

[B2N2]

Great stuff Swiss, this is the stuff I need to know.
In a previous life I've lived in South America but I was hoping that Brazil was maybe a little more "organized".
Good info none the less.
Any other info greatly appreciated.........

[flyingswiss]

No problem, if you need any other help you can also pm me.

I have not mentioned the cost of any fee, because those change (++) pretty often.

If you are planning on starting something with Brazilians then make sure you got all your stuff right, TSA and Homeland security are all over students from here after they found 30 of them doing illegal flight training in Boston, it has also been harder for them to get M1-F1 Visas.

If you train them 141, thanks to the ground school they will gain a better aviation knowledge then pilots trained here. Getting them right away into CRM would also be good...

ANAC is changing a lot, so if you make long term plans be ready to change them, I know they want to put a multi crew license and change some of the requirements.

[flyingswiss]

I got some current numbers for you:

you have to pay 350 Reais for the 1st class medical (initial)

you have to pay 115 Reais to apply for the license/paperwork

you have to pay 115 Reais for the Flight test

Flight training at a rate of 990 Reais/hour DUAL and with briefs included on Seneca I (you can find it probably cheaper 700-800 Reais/hour)

you just need to be current, with ck ride you can do everything in 3 hours, here in Rio the CFI will be also the ck airman.

with other small things like flight school membership, POH,...

+/- 3500 Reais

[B2N2]

Thanks Swiss,good stuff....:ok:

[brasgaucho]

sec_fac_elac,

You forgot the best places in Brasil: Rio Grande do Sul and Santa Catarina.

[flyingswiss]

The South is beautiful, just the weather is not really the best. Not really Brazil but further down south, Uruguay is also an amazing place, aviation there is really nice, there is a little town down there where the look has been preserved as it was in the `30s-`50s, old American and French cars, they have one of the only non paved international airports in the world, it`s really worth a flying trip, the food, the peoples and especially the place is just awesome Puerto Carmelo (http://www.puertocarmelo.com/)

[12345florida]

Very good info about how to do the validation works in Brazil. I just did that not too long ago and everything seems right... the only huge problem is ANAC (I am still waiting on them) like you said you need to be on top of them everyday... they are really slow and sometimes have mix/wrong information. The place to get the medical is called CEMAL in Rio and be ready to spend 2 days in there if it is an initial medical....

[elmetal]

dang swiss! Extremely informative.

What would you say is the time to get the license from the day you start your medical? 3 months? 1 month?

Assuming everything goes as planned, you have all the right documents first time around.

Also, think you could pm me (or email me) with the questions on the exam and how they are different than the FAR?

One last question: for the exam we have to take, is it just the regulation one or is it the whole mess of weather, this that, etc etc that regular first time ANAC pilots have to do?

[varigflier]

For the exam, it's just regulation and I believe it's 20 questions.

[elmetal]

geez, that seems fairly simple. I need to get studying. What would you say is a good way to study Brazilian regulations? is there a website or a book I can buy to study?

[Andrea_CTA]

is there a website or a book I can buy to study?

Here you go.. Some users suggested this book to study :ok:
Hope this help , even because as I get my license I will convert into a brazilian one (I am Italian).

Bianch.com - A maior Pilot´s Shop do Brasil na internet! (http://www.bianch.com.br/?1.9,regulamento.html)

Let me have some news about your convert process.
Obrigado e bom dia, ciao!

[elmetal]

Thank you very much! I will definitely post about what I had to do and everything.

I'm ready to make lots of useless trips to get things they never said was needed. It happens all the time, I'm used to it.

[elmetal]

Sweet thanks man! Now out of that link, which book is recommended for the cpl regulamentos exam?

Ill definitely post about how it all works out for me

[varigflier]

This is the one I used to study for the regulations test. Regulamentos de Tráfego Aéreo – IFR - Bianch.com - A maior Pilot´s Shop do Brasil na internet! (http://www.bianch.com.br/?1.9.0.0,51,regulamentos-de-trafego-aereo-%96-ifr.html)

I am in Florida every month so for those of you wanting to buy the book I could buy it and take it to Florida if need be. Just let me know.

VF