QF - "Heavy"

[Gunger]

Why is it that some QF drivers seem to think its required to inform the GROUND CONTROLLER that they're a 'heavy'?

Why is it that some QF drivers seem to think its required to inform the DEPARTURE CONTROLLER that they're a 'heavy'?

I was of the understanding that the only people who need to be reminded about the weight category of your aircraft are the APPROACH and TOWER CONTROLLERS.

[blueloo]

I thought some are optional, but some are required.

who has got the reference in AIP? I can't find it

[TineeTim]

I was of the understanding

Your understanding was wrong. AIP comm section applies and is quite clear. I'll let you practice reading it yourself :}:E

[Sunstar320]

Same with TOWER before departure awaiting takeoff clearance, not needed. Especially in the morning Melbourne peak when we have A380's, 747s, 777s all departing at the same time. So I wonder if Tower gives a rats about a QF 767 declaring they are heavy considering 34 is long enough for most types, let alone Qantas going to Sydney.

The only heavy calls I hear are from the 767s.

[Nunc]

Well it is needed, refer AIP GEN 3.4-48 and on, and in particular GEN3.4-32. Melbourne 34 may be long enough but the good old 76 is in the heavy category and requires this appended to the callsign on the 5 occasions nominated in the AIP on FIRST CONTACT.

[Gunger]

Your understanding was wrong. AIP comm section applies and is quite clear. I'll let you practice reading it yourself :}:E

Well not really bright spark :=

JEPP AU-811 5.2.2.8 states;
For aircraft in the SUPER or HEAVY wake turbulance categories, the word "SUPER" or "HEAVY" respectively must be included immeadiately after the aircraft call sign in the initial radiotelephony contact between such aircraft and the aerodrome control tower or the approach control unit.

[Nunc]

Why dont you have a read of AIP 3.4-48 little boy, dont care what your Jepp says.

[chimbu warrior]

I can only refer to the Jeppesen section, which is on page ATC AU-811.

It states - For aircraft in the Super or Heavy wake turbulence categories, the word "SUPER" or "HEAVY" respectively must be included immediately after the aircraft call sign in the initial radiotelephony contact between such aircraft and the aerodrome control tower or the approach control unit.

I guess it could be argued that at airports like Brisbane, where approach and departures are one and the same, it should be given when contacting departures.

The requirement to advise tower does not differentiate between initial contact prior to takeoff, or prior to landing. :)

[Gunger]

Nunc

Why don't you tell me what it says!! That's why I'm asking as I only use JEPPS in lieu of the AIP's.

No need to highlight your mood swing's either :=

[Capt_SNAFU]

Where is it? http://www.airservicesaustralia.com/publications/current/aip/gen/toc.pdf

[Nunc]

Gunger, when you get whatever chip is on your shoulder removed google AIP and look it up yourself. I am finished with this thread.:ugh:

[regitaekilthgiwt]

Sinstar320 and Gunger are you serious?
Worries me that you don't understand how to read the AIP, so let’s instead just rant about QF drivers and 767 pilots :yuk:

Perhaps in line with with the level of your behaviour you need it spelled out like a two year old:

GEN 3.4.5.6
For aircraft in the heavy or super wake turbulence category, the word “SUPER” or “HEAVY” shall be included immediately after the aircraft call sign in the initial radiotelephony contact with the approach control unit or aerodrome control tower on departure and arrival.

GEN 3.4.5.14.8 After Take-off
Note 2: On 1st contact with radar advise wake turbulence category if ‘Super’ or ‘Heavy’.

GEN 3.4.5.14.4.1
Taxi Procedures for departure at a controlled aerodrome.
*[flight number] [aircraft type] [wake trubulence category if “Super of Heavy”] [POB (number)] [DUAL (or SOLO)] RECEIVED (ATIS identification) [SQUAWK (SSR code)] [aircraft location] [flight rules, if IFR] [TO (aerodrome of destination] REQUEST TAXI [intentions].

*Denotes pilot transmission.

words in [ ] are optional additional words or information that may be necessary in specific instances.

To continue to spell it out: we don't say POB as ATC already have that information, nor DUAL as it is not considered necessary, the PDC has been read back or a clearance has been obtained-that covers the squawk, they know where we are as we told them when requesting pushback, they know we are IFR as that is in the flight plan as is where we are going.

Summary: Advise "SUPER" or “HEAVY” on 1st contact with SMC, Tower, radar Departures & Approach.

While we are bagging each other, some A380 pilots could read this section of the AIP too and stop telling ground they are “Super” when requesting pushback. I know you are eager to say it (lets face it who wouldn't be :}:uhoh:) but again GEN 5.14.3 1.a * [aircraft location] REQUEST PUSHBACK

Hope this clears it up and you can move on with your life and not get so frustrated at those f-ing qf 767 drivers following the rules :rolleyes:

If you don't like it get the rules changed...I wish you good luck because I like most are sick of saying it! :ok:

Sorry to others for the flying lesson but they asked for it...........next

[Cactusjack]

Why is it that some QF drivers seem to think its required to inform the GROUND CONTROLLER that they're a 'heavy'?
They are warning the Tower that they have a full compliment of female Hosties onboard !!

[Gunger]

This is quite entertaining :).

So if you would agree that the addition of 'SUPER' or 'HEAVY' is optional what would be your reasoning for them using it? In a Low Vis environment I can understand that it may be information that may be necessary in specific instances, however in the majority of instances it's hardly required. Hence why there's quite a few of them that don't do it :ugh:

[HF3000]

And why do most of them say "TAXI CLEARANCE" or the even more rude "TAXI" instead of the very difficult but correct phrase "REQUEST TAXI" ?

[Keg]

It's only 'optional' if it applies to you. It applies to 767s, therefore we say it. Would you believe that we've been chipped for NOT saying it? Supposedly by ATC through our management but I don't trust my management much these days so who knows.

Now, if I give you a hammer, nails and some wood will you please just get on with building a bridge? :ugh: :rolleyes:

PS: QF A330s do it also. You'll also hear the Supers mention it at the required time also. :ok:

[Dropt McGutz]

Hey fellas - who cares?

[Mud Skipper]

Get a life, with all the c/@p happening in Oz aviation who cares:confused:

[Fatguyinalittlecoat]

Guys (but mostly Gunger). Have a glass of Red, and get life.

Regards.

[regitaekilthgiwt]

Mud Skipper and Dropt McGutz etc I could not agree more, but when some clowns come on here bagging me and my colleagues for following rules we don't make I will defend myself! The A380 thing was a bit of a joke - catusjack..and half their luck! ....next

[Gunger]

Supposedly by ATC through our management but I don't trust my management much these days so who knows.

I wouldn't trust them either, after all it's them that tell you guys to taxi around with all those light's on pi$$ing everyone else off :D.

[Capt Fathom]

Anyway, back to the thread.....

The original intention was to advise the controller responsible for providing wake turbulence seperation for take off and landing.

On departure, that is the tower controller. On arrival, it is the approach controller.

But it seems to have morphed into something more complex. But that's the Australian way!!

[C441]

Now for a bitta sanity.

Some time ago when ferrying an empty 744ER from Sydney to Melbourne, the F/O neglected to mention "Heavy" to the Tower approaching the holding point with traffic on about a 3 or 4 mile final.
A very Aussie accept replied "Qantas xxx are you heavy?" to which the F/O replied "ahh bugger, sorry forgot that."
TWR: "Nah Qantasxxx are you heavy?"
F/O: "No pretty light actually"
TWR: "In that case QFxxx clear for take-off."
Shortly after. "Yeah QFxxx ya must be light. Call Departures 1xx.x, Seeya"

[caneworm]

Geezo Gunger
If it's not r/t procedures it's aircraft lights......we're just doing what we're told

"....you can tell the size of a man by the size of his problems....."

[Autobrakes4]

Gunger, you are boring. Ever heard of SOP's? We follow them at Qantas. For the 767 that means saying heavy when required by the AIP (not Jepp), and using our lights as told to by the company. :ugh:

[Dropt McGutz]

Fair point Regit. It's a pretty pointless thread though.

[hoss58]

Where's that bloody padlock, i know i left it laying around here somewhere.:confused:

Fly safe and play hard.

Regards Hoss 58