Instructor Rating Advice: merged threads including EASA

[qwe123]

Does anyone have any advice as to who to train as an instructor? Is there much to choose between 'Sloane Helicopters', 'Fast Helicopters' and 'Heliair'?

Thank you.

[puntosaurus]

Sorry to answer a question with a question, but what do you think is the most important criterion in selecting a school for your FI rating ? If you get that one right, then I think you'll realise that only one person can make a proper judgement - you ! And you can only make that judgement based on detailed face to face discussions.

PS I'll give you a clue, it's nothing to do with the quality of teaching.

[Flying Foxhunter]

Many moons ago I did an FI(H) with one and taught at another. All things being equal it comes down to the people who are going to train you. First impressions count for a lot, so go and visit each training school and talk to the instructors who would actually be teaching you. If possible find someone who has recent experience of the FI(H) course and ask them for their opinion.

You are looking to spend a lot of money, and whoever you train with needs to offer you a well structured course, I preferred 9-5:30 five days a week as it suited me at the time. That way you can rattle through it fairly quickly. However you must see what they are each offering. Remember you are the customer and expect to be treated as such.


Well thats my two pennyworth, Good Luck!

[Camp Freddie]

obviously important is which organisation is going to give you a good course,
I did mine with an old navy boy, who was very demanding and ran a hard course. at the time I would have liked an easier ride but having come through it, I know that it was good for my character building, and improved my confidence etc, previously I was a self fly hirer at the same organisation and then went on to instruct and do commercial work at the same organisation.

other factors to consider

1) which organisation have you spent a lot of money with so far? as they will have more loyalty towards you, and are more likely to give you work once you have the rating

2)where would you like to work after the course?, as the company you do the instructor course with are more likely to give you work than someone they dont know.

3)if you spend a lot of money at one company on PPL, CPL etc, then go on to do your FI course at a second company and then try to find work at a third company, you have stacked things against yourself a bit.

hope this helps

[qwe123]

Thank you so much Puntosaurus, Flying Foxhunter and Camp Freddie for your advice. I am planning on visiting the schools. For me the most important aspects will be the course and standard of instruction so I just wanted to gain a little information beforehand.

Thanks again.

[Andy Brandt]

I have fairly recently completed my Instructor Rating (October)
So here are my experiences.

I was looking to do it with HeliAir, where I worked, however, they did not have an "Instructor instructor", so it was arranged to do it at High Wycombe with Helicopter Services.

Mike Green was the instructor running the course, who has had many years teaching, as well as his time in the AAC (which he has many good stories to tell).
Also on the course was another pilot of similar experience to my own . This I feel was important, as it aided the learning experience, being able to bounce ideas of each other during lunch, and the ability to fly with each other and practice teaching.

Leon Smith was my examiner, and I found him a very good pilot. There was a lot of banter before and around in the office, but as soon as we got in the cockpit, it was strictly professional.

All in all, truly recommended ,
Best of luck

Andy

[Helinut]

It is not whose banner it is done under (i.e. which flying school) which is important. It is the details that matter.

FI(H) training is or should be very intense. IMO, It is a period with one of the steepest learning curves of any in hele flying.

The person or persons doing your instruction are key. You need to spend some time finding out about that person and how he/she fits with your character.

I would strongly recommend that you try and do your course with another student. It helps in all sorts of ways.

[Heliport]

qwe123
I just wanted to gain a little information beforehand.
Very sensible. :ok:
Of course visiting schools is important, but learning from the experience of others is also very useful. It may help point you in the right direction or, perhaps even more important, help you avoid making a mistake.
Bear in mind when you visit that some schools are slicker at bullsh1t than others.

The FI school most consistently recommended on this forum over many years is Helicopter Services at Booker.
The particular 'FI-Instructor' most consistently recommended is Mike Green (at Helicopter Services, Booker.)

(HeliAir used to be recommended, but the company changed ownership a few years ago. The key people who built up its previous reputation are no longer there.)


H.

[Hughes500]

Mike Green taught me years ago and his advice has made me a resonably good instructor ( I think ). He will look after you very well and with Leon at Heli services what more could you ask for !:ok:

[qwe123]

Again, many thanks to all that have kindly replied and offered advice. I have heard that Helicopter Services is good and it's reassuring to know that Mike Green and Leon are held in high esteem.

[The Nr Fairy]

+1 for Mike Green - he has a different style to most, but you'll learn rapidly through forced osmosis.

And I think it says something that the last several years, GAPAN FI(H) scholarship winners have all (correct me if I'm wrong) done their courses at Helicopter Services.

[Alexanderthegreat]

QWE,
And don't forget Geoff Day {Highmark Aviation Ltd - Breighton}, an excellent FIC Instructor. Alex.

[chester2005]

+1 for Geoff Day he also does FI courses for Helicentre coventry i've heard very good things about his courses and he is booked up many months in advance
Chester:ok:

[Translational Lift]

+1 for Geoff Day he also does FI courses for Helicentre coventry i've heard very good things about his courses and he is booked up many months in advance
Chester

Helicentre Aviation moved to Leicester Airport about 18 months ago, and Geoff is indeed there most of the time doing FI and CPL courses.

:ok:

T.

[Heliport]

qwe123

You should be very cautious about PMs offering advice.
Very often, it isn't independent.

Advice posted here isn't always independent but there's an opportunity for others to see what's said and, if they disagree, say why they do.


H.

[Flying Lawyer]

And I think it says something that the last several years, GAPAN FI(H) scholarship winners have all (correct me if I'm wrong) done their courses at Helicopter Services.

You are correct. :ok:

=======

I haven't done a course at Helicopter Services but did a B206 type rating renewal there and was impressed by the TRE (Ruth Downey) and the school.
Leon Smith and Mike Green both have long-established excellent reputations.

[qwe123]

Thank you again for all your advice. I have not considered 'Highmark Aviation Ltd' so it's good to hear about others. Helicopter Services seems the way to go although I will definitely check out the others.

[MartinCh]

Which UK heli school does/has experience with ICAO (FAA) FI to JAA FI conversion? Obviously, all the CPL/ATPL and flight experience requirements will be met before starting the course. Other than the Helicentre and Helicopter Services in Wycombe.

I am enquiring with the two mentioned/widely known schools this weekend, but since I trained and will work in unrelated schools, it's also about the convenience, price and location/housing, not just FI instructor. The 15hrs flight and 30 ground minimum doesn't exactly fit into the regular 30hr/125ground FICs.

No idea what's up with Highmark Aviation Ltd since the website isn't operational and can't reach anyone on the number listed on third party company listings websites.

[HillerBee]

The 15 hours flying and 30 ground are minimums, the Head of Training will decide how many you really need, don't get overexcited because from experience I know most people need a lot more than 30 ground more like 75, flying usually only a few more but totally depends on previous training.

[powerlimited]

Highmark Aviation are no longer doing courses (finished last year), but Geoff Day who used to run the courses for Annie is still available, working mainly for HeliCentre at Leicester.

I would also recommend taking a close look at Helicopter Services as you have suggested, excellent reputation.

It way also be worth considering Aeromega at Cambridge.

Good Luck!!

[chester2005]

Someone/somewhere else to consider for your conversion is Mike Buckland who runs FI courses out of Heliflight and Rise down at Gloucester.

I am in the middle of an FI course down there, and having spoke to and visited a few schools before choosing Heliflight, for me it came down to 2 things (not in order)
1, price and availability
2, was an FI(E) doing the course

there are only 8 ? FI(E)s so their standards should all be very similar.

Mike Buckland is an FI(E) and also a nice chap and very good instructor, he has been doing FI courses for many many years with a 100% pass rate, IMHO the statistics speak for themselves.

Chester:ok:

[MartinCh]

Thanks guys.

Trying to work out what'd happen after April, for sure, regarding reduced course reqs. When talking briefly to Leon Smith, he said 50hrs ground, which, as you say, is 'happy medium' between the ground for FAA CFI and JAA FI. Obviously, to required proficiency, but the 30hr flight would kill my funding, whatever will be left, incl loan.

I'm told both Mike Green and Geoff Day run the FI courses throughout the year, including winter months (time I'm likely to do it), so the weather could be more of an issue than actual instructor's availability. At least it's not fixed wing FI course with all the upper aerial work stuff.. :)

[hueyracer]

I have an JAA ATPL(H) that expires in 2016.

My FI rating expired in 2009. I have not taught since then.

My R44 rating also expired in 2009. I have not "officially" flown the R44 since then, although I have acted as safety pilot on a regular basis.

I attended an instructor seminar in Feb 2012.

Now.... if I do nothing, when my JAA ATPL expires in 2016 I will be sent a new EASA licence, and the FI rating, and the R44 rating, will appear on the new EASA licence in the "ratings no longer held section". Is this correct?

If this is the case, what is the minmum training required to get my FI rating back in on my new EASA licence in 2016?

Is a full R44 type rating course and a full instructor course required? or just training as required?

Thanks all

Can´t show you where to find it-but afaik, a rating that is expired is "falling off your license" immediately....

You will not be able to get an expired rating onto your EASA-license...

[hueyracer]

Ah, so I have to renew my FI rating before I get issued an EASA licence in 2016, i order for the FI rating to appear at all on my EASA licence?

AFAIK, yes.

But i am in an early stage of getting my head into EASA-Ops, as Germany is only introducing it in April this year...

[Camp Freddie]

my understanding of this is that when you apply for your EASA licence (which you could do now if you want as your JAR licence is already a "deemed" EASA licence), on the application form you will be invited to list all the ratings on the JAR licence (whatever the age of them), when the licence comes back, anything over 3 years old will be listed in the 'previously held ratings' section. i.e. in your case the R44/FI

renewal of these will be subject to a full course less any credit given by the ATO based on your previous experience.*

when you renew your licence and the 2016 date makes no difference to any of this because your licence is already deemed EASA, and the minimum training to reactivate these will logically increase as your expired period increases.

*having looked through CAP 804 and the AMC, i am less sure about the minimums to renew the FI rating, because i cant find a direct reference to renewal when expired by more than 3 years.

[Curtis E Carr]

From Annex I to Commission Regulation (EU) No 1178/2011

FCL.940.FI FI — Revalidation and renewal

(a) [...]

(b) [...]

(c) Renewal. If the FI certificate has lapsed, the applicant shall, within a period of 12 months before renewal:

(1) attend an instructor refresher seminar;

(2) pass an assessment of competence in accordance with FCL.935.

In addition, and from the Flight Examiners' Handbook (page 41):

FI(H) CERTIFICATE REVALIDATION /RENEWAL

Form Guidance: As Indicated on the application form and Stds Doc 10

. [...]
. [...]
. Sign the applicant's licence only if the instructor certificate is on Part XII of the certificate and in the case of a renewal is within 3 years of the expiry date.
. [...]

[Camp Freddie]

ok, so what if i wanted to renew my FI rating right now? What would i need to do?

go along to a provider of FI courses and ask his opinion would be a good place to start I think.

As I have over 1,000 hours teaching experience I would like to think I would be able to do "training as required" to renew my FI rating. If not, it would be rather expensive to be forced to do a complete FI course again.


having just lost 4 twin engine helicopter types from my licence altogether because they are more than 3 years expired, you are preaching to the converted

[tu154]

Talk to Helicopter Services, Leon will give you the (current) definitive answer.

[flight beyond sight]

Curtis has spelt it out for you

1 Attend an instructor Refresher Seminar

2 Pass an assesment of competence with an FIE H

Simples !

[rotarywise]

Sorry if I'm being slow here.

So I can do this in 2016? Even though my JAA FI rating may not appear on my new EASA licence because it has expired?

It doesn't matter by how long the FI certificate has expired, the requirements are the same: Attend a seminar and pass an assessment of competence. The fact that the certificate has been transferred to the 'Previously held' section is also irrelevant.

Refresher training for the type rating is entirely at the discretion of the ATO. It 'can' take into account the recommendations in the AMC but it is neither obliged (must) nor encouraged (should) to do so.

[Alexanderthegreat]

GS, You could do the instructor Refresher Seminar at Helicentre Aviation {Leicester} with Geoff Day {Helicopter based course}, and he is also an FIE so can also do the FI Test. ATG.

[JTobias]

Guys,

Anyone know what the requirements for obtaining a flight instructors rating under EASA are ? Will their still be a requirement to have a CPL (H) or has this now changed ?

Joel :ok:

[Aucky]

Cap804. Section 4, Part J - implies to me you could undertake the FI course as a PPL(H) and teach up to PPL level, presumably not for reward though without a CPL(?).

[John R81]

I understood that a PPL(H) with FI can then be paid for instruction. CPL(H) no longer needed to allow payment.

Willing to be corrected, however

[tu154]

+1 for Mike Buckland, now at HeliAir Gloucester. One of the top people to train with in the country.

[BillieBob]

I understood that a PPL(H) with FI can then be paid for instruction. CPL(H) no longer needed to allow payment.Correct but you still need to have passed the CPL(H) exams.

[John R81]

Do you have a reference for that? I was told very recently that to instruct to PPL all that was needed was a PPL and FI, and that payment for FI work was covered by the FI. Specifically I was told no CPL was needed.

[gnz]

John, for what it worth (Sept 2012); see this CAA pdf, FCL 915.FI-Prerequisite (http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/2330/EASA%20Helicopter%20Presentation%20Sept%202012%20v1.pdf), and their annotation.

[John R81]

GNZ - thanks for the link



FCL.205.H PPL(H) - Privileges

(a) The privileges of the holder of a PPL(H) are to act without remuneration as PIC or co-pilot of helicopters engaged in non-commercial operations.

(b) Notwithstanding the paragraph above, the holder of a PPL(H) with instructor or examiner privileges may receive remuneration for:

(1) the provision of flight instruction for the LAPL(H) or the PPL(H);
(2) the conduct of skill tests and proficiency checks for these licenses;
(3) the ratings and certificates attached to these licenses


However:
FCL.915.FI

(c) At lest 200 hours as PIC if the applicant holds at least a PPL(H) and has met the requirements for CPL theoretical knowledge

Note: CPL knowledge requirements to be met before attending the FI course

[ÞOS]

Hi guys and girls!

Could anyone recomnend a EASA CFI(H) training provider?
Im planning on doing the FI course and Im looking for the right place :)

[paco]

Helicopter Services at Wycombe Air Park
Helicentre At Leeds

Phil

[chester2005]

Heli Air at Gloucester, courses are run by Mike Buckland, top bloke!!!

Chester:ok::ok:

[Cylinder Head]

Suggest you also go and see Aeromega Helicopters at Cambridge.