FLASH FLASH FLASH

[downwash]

Hi all,

I’d like to ask does anyone know what effect an endorsement on a driving licence has when applying for sponsorships, I hope to apply this year.

I got a nasty letter from the police having been caught by speed camera 6 points. http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/frown.gif http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/frown.gif
I know this is not a criminal conviction, I don’t go to court.

I’ve been driving for 8 years I’ve never had a speeding offence before and never had a criminal convection.

I contacted BA (one of the airlines I hope to reapply to) they said you’ll just have to apply and see. http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/frown.gif http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/frown.gif

Thoughts anyone
do-do please report!
Take great care Downwash


[This message has been edited by downwash (edited 13 February 2001).]

[Loony_Pilot]

Hi,

This is just opinion, but I dont think a speeding conviction should affect your future career prospects.
A drink driving conviction may well stop a prospective airline employing you but I cant really see why having been unlucky enough to get done by a GATSO Cash-Cow should mess up your career.

LP

[Wedge]

There is one easy way of making sure that a speeding fine won't affect your application......

DON'T TELL THEM!

Speeding fines are not criminal convictions and on every form I have ever completed the question is phrased "Have you ever been convicted of a criminal offence (exclude speeding offences etc etc).

This won't affect your applications in any way, just keep quiet about it!

[PA38]

Something is not quite right with this....
6 point for speeding "fixed penalty" I thought the highest points awarded where 3 for fixed penalty offences!
Only a magistrates court can award higher points not pc plod or a gatso camera.
As for it not being counted as a conviction, your insurance company and any future court apperences for anything (it will be on PNC)will change your mind....

[Fester Adams]

PA38,
I got caught 3 times on the same camera in the space of 10 minutes as I went up and down my road one morning, (ferrying kids etc), never more than about 8mph above the limit.
(Didn't make a flash, so I didn't know anything about it 'til the letters hit the mat a few weeks later)
They are trying to give me an SP30 for each one. = 9 points plus £120 fine.
I'm going to let it go to court.......

[downwash]

Hi all thanks for your replies sounds like I should be OK I got flashed twice 3 points each sods law, never thought the bloody things would come through ahhhgggrrr

As I recall particularly on the BA application form the driving offences and ‘do you have any criminal convictions?’ are two separate questions. http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/frown.gif


take great care downwash

[BIG MISTER]

SPEED KILLS - SO DONT DO IT ! ! !

As regards your situation Play it safe and speak to a Legal rep.

The last thing you want is to get all the way into a RHS only to find your history catches you up !

In any case he/she will be able to advise you as to the best way forward.

6 points is quite a lot for a single speeding offence and the chances are the fine wont be that much fun either !

If you were close to double the posted speed limit you could even be looking at a ban !

Your legal rep should be able to put forward your case based on the full circumstances of the offence and include things such as the time of day, the number of cars on the road, location of any speed signs and could they be seen etc etc.

There are also some interesting things to have come out of the Scotish courts in recent months as regards Human rights Law and GATSO's which is worth thinking about.

Dont consider representing yourself at court as its hardly ever a good idea !

Lastly good luck with your application but do please try to remember.....
Love them or hate them Its not the GATSO's you need to respect...its the bunches of flowers placed just down the road form them !

[Loony_Pilot]

Hi,

Just a quick point regarding the scottish law/human rights law stuff.
Its now invalid and the police have the same powers as before.. ie they can make the owner say who was driving it or prosecute the owner basically.

On a personal note.. speed itself is not in any way dangerous... it is Excessive speed under innapropriate circumstances that is dangerous...I have no problem with cameras in built up areas, near schools, accident blackspots etc etc.
But to put them on clear stretches of motorway, hidden and disguised is just simply nonsense.. its a revenue maker and nothing more.
Its far more dangerous to do 40 in a 30 limit than it is doing 100mph on a clear motorway.
I'm just pissed off with the removal of common sense and the rigid application of laws.. not applying the law in a sensible manner.. but applying the law in a way which precisely follows a written instruction with no space for intelligence or common sense.

LP

[Rubbish]

BIG MISTER

I am sorry but you are talking rubbish. Speed is not directly linked to accidents at all.

It is a fact that the Germans on certain roads go faster than us yet have fewer accidents.

GATSO cameras are nothing but a revenue making scheme for the police. AS already mentioned - who cares if you are going 100 on a clear motorway.

The actual limits - like 70mph were set not for safety reasons but for those of economy ages ago when fuel was an expensive commodity.

We all know that there are prats about that race through school areas etc but the law is an ass - and basically puts the cameras on the wrong roads.

Furthermore - who cares about people speeding when the crime recovery rate for break ins is 1 in 20. I think it is pathetic!!

[GJB]

This topic has come up before. I have points and have declared them on medicals etc.

I don't think one or two convictions for minor speeding will impede you. If you had been convicted for drunk driving, dangerous driving etc, then that could be viewed far more seriously.

I think WWW found some old research by the RAF that suggested those with the aptitude for flying, or their best pilots, all had speeding convictions.

[WGW]

The way I understand it, speeding fines ARE a criminal offence. Most application forms will specify 'not including parking fines' (now decriminalised and a matter for the local council). Speeding fines are a police matter and will appear on your record.

My advice would be confess. I have 3 pts, put it on my application to BA and on my reference agreement form, even though it was five years ago. Licence (DVLA) is now clean, but criminal records (police) last longer than that, so I don't think it's 'spent' - can anyone clarify?

Doesn't seem to have affected my application so far. If I get asked about it in Final Board, I'll tell them it was a camera, open road, Sunday afternoon, dual carriageway, didn't occur to me it was a 30 limit (all this is true) and chances are at least one of the interviewers will empathise and we'll have a moan about 'bloody cameras'.

I'd definitely recommend putting it down - admitting to having had a bit of bad luck (which it usually is; most of us aren't dangerous drivers) has to be better than lying on your application form - you never know when it might come back and bite you in the ass.

Honesty pays, skeletons in the closet don't.

WGW

[Baggy]

WGW,

You are correct in saying that a fine and endorsement for speeding is a criminal conviction. (Road Traffic Regulations Act 1984)

As I understand it, when the points are "spent" the conviction exists only as note on a file somewhere and should not affect you any more.

Drive safely... B. x

[Base leg]

Let's get a few things straight-
Speeding is not a criminal conviction. It is a non-recordable offence that lasts for 4 years.After that you spend £17.50 to get a new clean licence.It will not show on the Police National Computer as a recordable offence- with one exception- if a criminal offence takes place at the same time- it will be recorded as a 'non-recordable offence' without going into the specifics. This is so all offences are dealt with at the same time.
Six points = 1)A summons to the local Magistrates Court for going well over the limit. This normally accompanied by a fine and is not recordable and not a 'Criminal conviction' OR 2) Two separate speeding offences.
To clarify- there are two types of offence-
'Recordable' AKA 'Criminal'
'Non-recordable'

Getting back to the point in question-
3 points on your driving licence for a minor road traffic offence will not stop you getting an interview with all but BA-
Any drink driving or any drug convictions will bar you for life from any interview with any airline.

One further thing- the speed cameras in London since they were introduced have done more to reduce deaths on the roads of our Capital City by around 90% - still want to criticise them you of user name 'Rubbish'?


[This message has been edited by Base leg (edited 14 February 2001).]

[BIG MISTER]

Rubish ?

Well Ive heard some in my time !

1) At this time the Police dont get the money from the camaras or the written fixed penalty notices the Government do(no comment there)

2) The Germans have very good roads designed and built for the speeds envolved and used by people who are 'used' to them. The fast bit of driving is easy...its the stopping thats proves to be difficult in the UK !

3) Speed a factor ? Well the law's of physics say for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. If you dont agree then drive your car at a wall at 5MPH and then try it again at 100mph...I'll sent some flowers !

4) I'd rather have my house / car broken into then have to wear a black suit again !!!!!!

5) If you know how to reduce the crime levels do tell. Maybe you could stop watching TV about 'the land of make belief' and lend a hand - become a Special ?

I knew this would get peoples blood boiling. Thats the funny thing about driving. We all think that 'It will never happen to us'.

I hope for all your sakes it never will !

We all have our own point of view and mine is a very personal one built upon my own personal loss and circumstances.

None of us are 'Angles' lets do our best to keep it that way !

Until then enjoy your flying and good luck with your career + as I said before take legal advise re the 'points' on your applications.

Right Ive said my bit - now back to flying !

[GPS Approach]

WGW,

Speeding fines are not a criminal offence, if you are charged and found guilty of a criminal offence you will have a criminal record, i.e your photograph will be on record as will your fingerprints, identifying marks etc. At no time when I have been caught for speeding have I had any of these things done, therefore although it may be contrary to the Road Traffic Act to speed it is not deemed as a criminal offence as such.

Before the arguments start I know this from my own personal experience as I have been caught speeding before and also have just finished a 1 year ban for drink driving (I was stopped the morning after and was still 10% over the limit beware). So unfortunately I do have a criminal conviction not something I'm proud of but it was for the drink driving offence and not any of the speeding offences.

I am not a habitual speeder driving everywhere over 100mph, just someone who in the past did a lot of driving and as we all do (even though some of the whiter than white among us wouldn't admit it) sometimes creep over the speed limit, but I'm always the unlucky one that gets caught. No I don't condone speeding, I don't speed through towns, but I think that getting caught for driving at 80mph on a straight deserted road in the country by a grey box on the side of the road is just revenue earning and doesn't reduce accidents at all.

Downwash, back to your point on the B.A form you can answer no for the have you got any criminal convictions question and on the driving offences just be honest they won't think anything less of you. I would say that the vast majority of motorists in Britain today have at one time or the other had a speeding offence and it would be more than likely that someone on the BA interview board has as well!

We are not perfect we are just unlucky to live in a society where the police and the government would rather chase the easy more lucrative targets rather than trying to stop real criminals.

Anyway that's me off my soapbox for today.

Good luck with the application anyway downwash.

------------------
Aargh, that was the taxiway we landed on!

[Mister Geezer]

If you agree to pay a Speeding Fine as a Fixed Penalty out of court then that is not a conviction. However if you contest an allegation made against you and take it to court and are eventually found guilty of speeding, then it becomes a conviction against you and you then have a record.

I am sure I am right on that one... someone correct me if I am not!!!

BTW on the BA form.... don't lie... write what happened!

MG


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It's a limited RAS as you approach my dark area.......

[This message has been edited by Mister Geezer (edited 14 February 2001).]

[downwash]

Hi all thanks for the replies, in any case I have to declare the points in the application form.

I've been told that being caught on camera is a civil offence.

Take great care

Downwash

[helimutt]

Just a quick point. Did you realise that if you get stopped for drink driving now, the CAA will know about it because of sharing info about things like that, plus, you won't get to keep that nice class 1 medical if they find out. Whether this is gospel I don't know but my caa doctor told me about it!!!!!!!!!!

[India Nine-Nine]

Rubbish,

~ an apt name you've chosen for yourself there.
I'd be interested to know where your autobahn info came from, Ali G perhaps?
Speed is directly related to rta's because the reaction time to oncoming hazards is reduced the greater speed is, and many drivers are not skilled or experienced enough to negotiate them successfully at high speed.
Perhaps more important is the correlation between speed and force of impact as has already been highlighted. A head on collision between two vehicles travelling at 50mph gives a resultant impact of 100mph - a few bumps and bruises I would suggest - consequences of which could be significantly reduced with lower speed and due care.

~ all food for thought when you're next adjusting the bass boost in your max power inspired GTE, or perhaps it may take a berievement for you to change your views - hopefully not your own!

[Wedge]

OK I have to retract what I said, I did not know BA asked directly on the form about points on your licence. What I meant was, don't volunteer the information unless directly asked.

If BA want you, I don't think a technicality like a speeding offence will be a problem.

[Base leg]

Mister Geeser-
Deciding to take a fixed penalty to court- I.E. contesting it and pleading not guilty with not lead to a criminal record if the case is proved against one.

[finals40]

Mate dont worry all my family are legal people and points on ur lisence unless due to a drug/drink offence are not a criminal ofence and u do not have to declare them............thats the basic legality!!!! hope this helps.......ive already been charged a fortune for just asking this simple point to all these lawyers!!!