Will I ever get a break?

[flyvirgin]

I finished all my initial flight training in October 2010, having applied to every airline that I can possibly think of, I still sit here without a flying job,

it’s driving me mad.

I was lucky enough to have an interview with Ryanair in January, I put alot of time, money and effort into this interview, (in fact I put everything into this interview) on the day I walked out the assessment centre feeling confident that I might have just clinched my first flying job,

The technical interview went very well, and so did the sim (well that’s my opinion).

Four days later I got the dreaded email saying I have been unsuccessful, this had knocked my confidence for six,

what did I do wrong?

Ryanair would have been the perfect start for me,I would have worked so hard for them,

It’s hard because my flying buddies are getting into Ryanair by the day, its getting to the point I’m feeling sick about it, what did I do that was so wrong, (I’m starting to sound like a big baby now)

So what now?

Maybe you guys can help me out? As the days, weeks,months go by, I can see myself getting more and more rusty by the day, my knowledge is deteriorating, my flying skills must be suffering.

(how can I keep on top of the ATPL knowledge-any tips)

I have worked far too hard just to give up on my dream, if I do I’ll be letting myself friends and family down,

I have came to the conclusion that I am going to have to pay for a type rating, don’t get me wrong I don’t have the money for this, I’m going to have to beg the bank manager,

Do you think this will be a good idea? I see it as an investment for my future career,

Another route I could take is an instructor rating, I have thought long and hard about this. I think I would make a good instructor, but if I put my hand on my heart, my aim has always been commercial flying,

I know there are thousands of people that are in my situation and I feel for every single person,

It just seems whatever I do, Someone erects a big double blocked brick wall in front of me.

Please feel free to share your experiences and any feedback will be much appreciated and will be taken on board,

PM’S are always welcome.

[hollingworthp]

When did you start your training?

[flyvirgin]

I finished my PPL back in 2008, ATPLS sept 09 -april 10, Then CPL/ME/IR completed by October 2010

[hobbit1983]

Failing the type rating or instructional route, get yourself a job in an aviation related role. Eg. Operations, Scheduling etc at an airline or FTO and get yourself known to people on the inside.

There are many people in your position now, and good contacts may well be the way to distinguish yourself from the wannabe army.

[cTcPilot]

Why would you even want to work for ryanair ?
You should be happy you are not working for them :D
Do you actually understand how that airline work's and treat's it's staff? Its a scam in my opinion!

I have a few freind's that work for FR, all lovely guys, but hate the flying, SOP's and there work contract's.

Anyways, man up and get a job as ground crew or a flight ops assistant, prove to that airline and the management pilots (who you will bump into on a daily basis) that you are the right stuff.
People who just send CV's off are not the kind of pilots I would want to share a cockpit with.
Get a job in the airline where you will bump into management, pilots on a daily basis, even if its the office cleaner for 6 months! You need contacts.

For your own sake, dont pay for a type rating. Just get your foot in the door somehow of any airline or charter AOC holder company.

Apply for a crew to airside DHL mini bus drivers job for example, mate just chin up and you will get a job but you neeed to start at the bottom.
I personnaly would not recruit a low hours pilot on an aircraft of the 737 weight category. You need a few years on old turboprops, that will put hairs on your chest or some single pilot IFR work.

Of course, failing the above you can just pay for a job and end up 5 years down the line with an emergency and no hand flying skills what so ever!

[Bealzebub]

Unless you were on an integrated cadet scheme with an affiliated flight training provider, I think you may be setting your sights a little unrealistically.

Most airlines require applicants to have ATPL level basic experience (1500 hours) and around 500 hours of turbine experience as a minimum. There is nothing new in this, they always have done.

For cadets with less than this minimum level of experience, recruitment is normally in conjunction with one of the main training providers (Oxford, CTC or FTE.)

Most of the major airlines are type rating training organisations (TRTO's) and will provide type rating training where necessary to those suitably qualified and experienced applicants. Paying for a type rating isn't going to improve your chances much unless you also have commensurate levels of relevant experience to go with it.

Type rating a suitable applicant from scratch takes around 6 to 8 weeks. The applicant may (depending on the airline) be contracted to those training costs (bonded,) or may be required to pay those costs in advance. In any event, the airline can appraise and monitor the candidates progress.

Obviously somebody with 250 hours and a type rating they have paid for themselves, as part of collection of self acquired and unmonitored courses, isn't likely to excite the interest of many companies. There are no shortage of companies selling this type of stuff, and similarly there are companies happy to charge you to attend an interview. However for most people with 250 hours and a CPL/IR, I am afraid airline employment is not a likely proposition in the near term.

It isn't a break you need, it is a better and more realistic game plan. Having said that, it still isn't going to be easy. An instructor rating might well enable you to obtain employment that would if you were successful, keep your flying skills from becoming rusty. It also enables the logbook hours to keep clocking up. In adddition it would hopefully provide you with new teaching (and learning) skills, that would be of benefit in the future.

Somebody in this position would be at a significant advantage to somebody not flying at all. Both could still send out CV's to all and sundry, but the instructor would actually be working towards to the end goal.

[maverick_supersonic]

You finished your training in October 2010 and you're already complaining?!
Boy do I have some bad news for you! It's going to be a long & bumpy ride!

[flyvirgin]

Thank you for your replys, all constructive feedback!

Maverick I'm not complaining in the slightest, I just want some feedback from the guys that have many years of experience in the industry,

I have (like many others) paid a lot of money for my training and I don't want to get rusty and become idol, I am ambitious and I want to explore my options, do everything I can to try and secure my first flying job, Peoples advice from this forum will help me achieve my goal,

Regards,

[hollingworthp]

How about making the most of the EU?

Move to Germany / Austria / Switzerland and learn German as fast as you can, the Market seems to better for German speakers and those are strong economies. See if you can find an ops job over there?

Probably most people in the UK also looking for a job will not consider learning a new language and it is a valuable life skill anyway!

[Check Mags On]

Hi flyvirgin

There has been some wise words said on this thread.
Expect a few more knock backs along the way, and just when you think nothing will happen, one will come. They are like London buses, nothing for ages then 3 at once.

DO NOT pay for a type rating unless you have got a written signed job offer.
My advice would be to get an instructor rating. ( it's what I did)

In the current climate there are not too many instructor jobs about, but you will find something. This will help get you experience and contacts. It will also teach you to be a better pilot, and looks good on your CV. It should keep you in the hours requirements that some companies want.

Instructor pay is not the best, and it can be difficult to even live off, let alone pay back any loans you may have.
So to supplement your income try and get a job at an airline, handling agent etc. It will give you a foot through the door. My airline has just took on as cadet pilots several people from ops/crewing etc.

The offers will come eventually, my first job offer was on a 737 and one requirement was to have more than 1000 hours. You need to have an instructing (or something similar) job to get those sort of hours.

Even when your in the airlines your knock backs will still come.
My first airline went bump the week before Christmas.

Making contacts will help, I knew no one in aviation when I started. Now I know people all over the world in many many airlines.

[Coffin Corner]

flyvirgin

Why the hell did you start your training 6 months into the worst recession in living memory? This part I just do not understand. When will wannabes ever learn? :ugh:

[flyvirgin]

Coffin Corner,

I know, I ask myself this question everyday...still you learn from your mistakes I guess.

Regards,

[Neptunus Rex]

It can happen. Ten years ago, there was a young Flight Despatcher working for our all jet airline. He had acquired his CPL and was as keen as mustard. I took him for an informal assessment in a C 172, as part of which he flew two immaculate instrument approaches in a very busy ATC environment.

I wrote a report and sent it to our Chief Pilot, who of course knew him. The Chief Pilot said that he was impressed, but he needed more hours, so our lad resigned his job and went to Guam to fly Cherokees around the islands. Two years later he was back in our company, on his way to the RHS of an A320. And he wears glasses!

[stop, stop, stop]

And he wears glasses!

Huh? Nothing wrong with wearing glasses!

Anyway,

Flying Instructor would be my advice. You'll have great fun, learn some good basics about training, (you'll get paid like a monkey but you'll have to shrug that one off!) and best of all it will set you up one day when you get the chance at a training position within an airline (that day WILL come....)

Air Taxi, Glider Towing, Parachute dropping. All good ways of getting a few 'free' hours in your logbook.

Other than that, anything aviation related would help. Ramp/Baggage/Ops/Crewing, whatever. Just make sure you have something relevant to talk about in that airline interview.

Good luck.

[Coffin Corner]

flyvirgin

Unfortunately in this game it is an expensive learning curve, and one which you may never recover from. One thing I will say is please, please, please do not listen to advice that tells you "if you want it bad enough you'll get there". This is complete b0llox. There's alot of good advice above, good luck in your quest.

[flyvirgin]

Thanks Coffin corner,

There is some very good advice above, which I will take on board.

Regards,

[Paolo]

Good luck - it will ok in the end!

Try looking at any flying job that it is going to get those all important hours. When I qualified there were airline jobs and I got lucky; but if I had no luck in the airlines I would have looked further and further afield until I found something.

All the best to ya

[flyvirgin]

Thanks for all your replys,

Some great advice, cheers guys :ok:

[KAG]

flyvirgin

Why the hell did you start your training 6 months into the worst recession in living memory? This part I just do not understand. When will wannabes ever learn? Not too sure about that.
Had he started his training in 2007 when the industry was booming, his situation wouldn't have been better being on the market mid 2008.
I think the timing is OK. You already got an interview. The job market will remain difficult anyway.
It's good you share your concerns here, as it may help some individuals in their decision making process.
Getting an airline job right after flight school shouldn't be your initial plan.
You should set your training, you financial situation, your expectations for this time frame and goals:
-1 years after finishing flight school you should land an instructor job position,
-4 years after finishing flight school you should land a non-instructor pilot job
-8 years after finishing flight school you should see yourself in a nice turboprop like the Q400.
-12 years after finishing flight school you should land a turbofan job position (oil production/price permitting).

In our economic and pilot job market, this is the time frame you should have in mind, anything coming sooner would be a bonus. And as somebody already said in this thread, it's valuable and rewarding to build your skills and experience step by step.

[FR8R H8R]

I'm broken hearted with the OPs conundrum. :{

No shiny jet after 6 months of looking and a whopping CPL to boot?

What has the world come to?

[CAT3C AUTOLAND]

There is no doubt that over the last couple of years that the recruitment policy of a few airlines and the criteria of guys getting there first job has changed.

However, on saying that, and with all due respect, you must approach this with your eyes wide open. If anyone ever asks me for advice with respect to getting you first job, you must have a back up plan. Very few people will walk straight into an airline job. If you appreciate this before you start your training you will not be disappointed when the time comes on obtaining your first job. Sadly few people realise this, and like you become disheartened at a very early stage. You will find many who post on these forums have ridden the roller coaster and waited years to get their first job, so, again with all due respect, waiting for a few months since the end of last year will not draw much sympathy.

As well as working hard to get your licences you have to work equally as hard to get your first job, which sometimes, may involve doing things that you do not want to do. Sadly just because you have busted your butt getting that little blue book, does not automatically give you the right to employment. You and hundreds of others are in the same boat.

Scoring the goal and getting that job you desire will be based on making mature and sensible decisions. It is also worth making as many contacts as possible within the business and gaining their respect, which will do you no harm. Of course this takes time and patience, and some people do not have these qualities therefore it leads to frustration, however, that is life and the quicker you learn this, the easier it will be.

please, please, please do not listen to advice that tells you "if you want it bad enough you'll get there". This is complete b0llox.

This comment from Coffin Corner I do not agree with, it is not complete bollox as he or she puts it. Life is a funny thing, and will present you with all sorts of twists and turns. However, with the correct tools, skills and a positive attitude eventually if you do want it badly enough, you will succeed.

Try not to get frustrated and be positive. I know it is a tough mix, most of us guys have been there, but it is worth it in the end.

All the best.

[Coffin Corner]

KAG

How can you say he trained at the right time? Of course at the height of the boom is the wrong time as well. The problem with alot of wannabes today is that they simply do not research. During the worst recession in history the flight schools were loaded with students, despite all the advice that is available on here etc etc. You also cannot say that he has had an interview already when this interview was with Ryanair. Whilst I am not turning this into a Ryanair bashing thread, you cannot judge anything on the back of what Ryanair does or gives out. If he had an interview with Eastern, bmi Regional, BMI, Thomas Cook, Flybe, Monarch etc then I would share your view (to a point). If the only option of sitting in the right hand seat is with Ryanair then this most definitely does not dictate that he did his training at the right time.

CAT3C

So help me with this. During boom time there is on average 250-300 new jobs created per year (PPRuNe got this figure from the CAA). out of the flight schools come on average 1200 wannabes per year (PPRuNe got this figure from the CAA). If you advise them all that "if you want it bad enough you'll get it" where are the other 900 jobs coming from? Are you seriously telling me it is good advice to be telling vulnerable wannabes that "if you want it bad enough you'll get it"? More people will never make it than those that will make it, that is a fact. You can tell them to chase their dreams all you want, but if the jobs aren't there they will never, ever make it - fact.
During my training I met some fantastic people, most, if not all were very dedicated. Out of the 40 odd people I met during my training only 5 of us got jobs, and one of those was only recently. This was in the middle of the recruitment boom in the mid 2000's
I would however, say that you need a positive mental attitude and determination, but this does not mean success like most people tell you.

Please wannabes, do not listen to this nonsensical notion that "wanting it" will see you succeed, it won't. Do your research, then when you think you have researched to death, do some more.

[KAG]

Coffin corner, I guess you have a point.
However, if we really have to talk about the "right time" as you call it, I would say in the 20s: in addition to become a pioneer, you could become a fighter pilot during WW2, then a super constellation pilot in the 50s, then a jet captain in the 60s before retirement.
But definitely not after 2007, for different reasons I already explained on pprune (energy price).
I could be wrong, but for me starting your training in 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014... that's all the same: hard time to come. Some interesting career path remain if you include light aircraft and bush flying though.

[FANS]

You should have been surprised if you did get a break after only 6 months.

I have no sympathy for anyone who started training in recent years, unless on a tagged scheme. Undertaking commercial flight training in one of the worst recessions for 80 years could only be considered ultra high risk, and your post should serve as a warning to today's crop of lemmings.

I would, however, caution against flight instructing. I believe that it is now a vocation that you can only do if you genuinely want to. Not so long ago, it was considered by many to be a necessary step (evil?) to building time but the tables have completely changed and consequently using the FI route as a stepping stone to airlines may leave you heavily disappointed.

[CAT3C AUTOLAND]

Coffin Corner,

I am not suggesting that all candidates that qualify as commercial pilots will walk into the profession. Personally, I do not know, or have factual statistical data from PPRUNE or the CAA, however, my comments were drawn from experience.

All candidates that qualify come from a broad spectrum of back rounds, and will have different reasons for wanting to do the job. Throughout my instructing days I saw many people go through the process of obtaining their licences, and on occasion it was evident that some of these people just did not have the personality traits or the right attitude of a professional pilot. As a result of that, that struggled to get a job. Others would get frustrated and give up very early on, and it was obvious that they did not have that special ingredient in their blood to persist. I even came across some people who got the job, and then decided it bored them to tears and resigned! While I was going through my ATPL ground school, every person that was in the class, through one way or another is now employed. Of course, a lot of this is based on timing. I appreciate now is not a good time!

What I am trying to emphasise, and once again I am only really looking at it from a view point I have from my own experience, is approach the task with an open mind, and a carefully thought out plan. Myself and a few others I know, took 10 years plus to get our first jobs, and it wasn't just luck, it was a result of climbing a big mountain with plenty of obstacles to over come. I guess I get mildly irritated when people are negative, as I had plenty of negativity from others when I was going through the process, only to realise now what they were telling me was nonsense, and a result of their own frustration.

It is difficult to advise people in today's climate, as you and I who have now secured our first jobs, are only trying to share our experience. Of course that experience is broad in the sense everybody has a different story. I like to encourage people who show a passion for aviation, and used to thrive on it when I was teaching. I am a realist and would not want to give anyone duff gen, however I still believe with the right tools in your tool box, you stand a pretty good chance of getting employed.

[Piltdown Man]

Flyvirgin - Six months is not long. I know it's painful waiting, but that's life. But could one of the reasons you got knocked back be because of your spelling? But I digress, what is really concerning is that you feel that you'll be letting your friends and family down. Why? For some perverse reason you've decided to try and get a job in an industry where victim supply vastly outstrips demand. If you walk away you won't be letting them down - but I do hope you haven't borrowed money from them.

But if you do stick around, what you'll have to do is keep doing the rounds and constantly add things to your CV, like HollingworthP has suggested. Adding French, German or Spanish as a language is probably worth a year's flying. It would also be great fun learning as well. The more mundane additions (but very useful) could be a St John's Ambulance First Aid course. Things like this separate you from the others - because as you are finding out, pilots are two-a-penny. It's the non-flying things that are really important.

And regarding Neptunus Rex's post -

And he wears glasses!

Well that's understood, but was he ginger?

[Mikehotel152]

@flyvirgin

Very good advice from a number of regular posters. I didn't catch how old you are or your family circumstances, but if time is on your side I suggest you get any job you can within the industry. Try someone like Navtech who make the Aerad charts - they take on lots of pilots waiting for their first break.

[flyvirgin]

Guys/Gals

Thank your so much for all your feedback so far, Its been most helpful,


Piltdown Man
Thankfully I dont owe no money to my family or friends, I was lucky enough to save and self fund my training,

Kind Regards,

Flyvirgin

[flyingguy1984]

I'd just like to insert something here which I'm sure has been said before. Often people mention the idea of Bush flying as a means of hour/experience building so I thought I'd do some research into this. It would appear it's a highly skilled form of flying (not that flying isn't skilled normally), but it takes a certain kind of a pilot to have the ability and confidence to do it. It's quite different to buzzing around the the UK. Interesting flying, but risky and challenging. So I don't think it should be floated as a "I'll just do some bush flying" scenario. No offence intended to anyone, just saying what I've seen.

[flyingguy1984]

Well you have a point - I wasn't saying people that fly jets are unskilled. I was just saying that Bush flying is a totally different ball game. It's one thing flying a c172 or a pa28 VFR around the UK, with ATC and D&D etc. Out in the Bush you can be flying for hours without anyone around, and the risk of downing with no chance of help. I did my initial training from a 700m nway, 2500agl and daily temperatures of 34c and it was tough, and we didn't often go further than 50nm from the field. Yes we should all be trained to a high standard, but in the UK we don't get trained in survival techniques, fighting off wild animals and dehydration :O Personally I wouldn't consider it without some major concerns, and I highly doubt I'm alone in saying that.

[aviationboy]

eh, when I finished my CPL i moved bush and started there. not sure if that is an option for you, but you can basically forget about anything airline related.

go get 1500hrs first as other have said, then try again :)

[davidbrent]

skimming this thread does make me laugh a little.

not at the frustration of struggling to find a job.

but... when people try to issue 'good' advice to wannabes about the highly competitive cut-throat nature of this proffession.

and advising people to do research before embarking on what everyone knows is the coolest career known to man (and woman) kind lol


as if.... you can expect a wannabe, to read this 'dont follow your dreams' advice and actually take it...

the very definition of 'wannabe' = want to be.... even if i couldnt get a flying job, and even if it took a while, i'd still chase the dream... til i die, because i love flying too much!!!

anyone who disuades wannabe's, or advises them against this career.... forgive me, but it just seems like they are eliminating the competition to improve their chances...... the reason i think this... because thats what i would do, if i had to!.... which i dont..... coz im a jet pilot :D

and ps: Adam, keep plugging away old chap!!

[KAG]

You just had a drink or something? There is something in your post, a funny tone...


as if.... you can expect a wannabe, to read this 'dont follow your dreams' advice and actually take it...

the very definition of 'wannabe' = want to be.... even if i couldnt get a flying job, and even if it took a while, i'd still chase the dream... til i die, because i love flying too much!!!

Your post is the very proof there is no harm in making people aware.

[Bealzebub]

Dreams are fine David. However one persons dream can be another persons nightmare. Similarly, like love and hate, there can often be a very fine line dividing the two. Dreams are often an escape from a much more mundane reality. Dreams don't put food on the table, or a roof over your head.

There is nothing wrong with dreams as a blueprint for a succesful future, but it the construction of that future that requires a less etherial methodology.

I can tell you that "skimming" through some of these threads, it is painfully obvious that there are a vast number of people who will for all sorts of reasons, never have a realistic likelyhood of achieving what they profess to be their "dream". However some will, and some will at least provide a customer base for flying schools in one form or another.

Whilst it is certainly true that a lot of people simply use these forums to "shout" (for want of a better word) into the wind, there are others that ask serious questions, or genuinely want the benefit of other peoples experience or opinion.

I couldn't care less whether anybody reads what I write, or ignores it. It is offered from the basis of my experience. If that helps somebody in their research then great, because that is the intention.

Flying as a career is often an eye wateringly expensive and risky game. Despite the impression you might draw from reading some of these forums, the realities of life usually result in significant attrition before anyone really dips a toe in the water.

What you term "dissuasion" is often somebody providing a reality check. To an obsessive or compulsive, it is very unlikely to make any difference. Try telling the person on state benefits that they shouldn't sensibly be blowing £30 a week on scratch cards or lottery tickets.

The people most likely to succeed are the ones who are intelligent, adaptable, discriminatory and mature. They are also the ones most likely to do a lot of their own research, and be able to make good sensible decisions by using any advice gleaned from that research, in the manner they see fit.

[davidbrent]

I couldn't care less whether anybody reads what I write, or ignores it. It is offered from the basis of my experience. If that helps somebody in their research then great, because that is the intention.


same as me tbh

[selim]

My view is that:
1. If you are passionate about flying, a recession is not going to stop you undertaking commercial training. Yes we are in the worst commercial conditions in our lifetime but studying during a recession may not be the worst decision anyone has ever made. After all if there are no jobs around and no money to be made perhaps training is the best thing to be doing for when things do pick up?

2. If you do decide to jump in the deep end and obtain your fATPL now be under no illusion that there are several thousand pilots with jet time ahead of the queue so you will have a significant wait before you with your low time logbook gets a look in

3. If you know someone with connections to an airline you jump the queue and have nothing to worry about if you are personable and can pass a simcheck

4. Lots of unemployed pilots on here will try their very best to put of wannabe pilots as the fewer there are on the market the better their chances of getting a job

5. Lots of honest people on here trying to put wannabe pilots off because the aviation world is dire at present

6. Do we really believe conditions for pilots will ever get better? I do not, I believe they will get worse jobs abound or otherwise, this industry has changed for good and those days of left seating a 707 on whopping salaries and perks are gone forever so accept that you can get paid twice as much driving a train than you can driving a plane and do it only because you are passionate about flying not because you want to be well paid and live a glamourous lifestyle, those days are gone for good

In essence, in my opinion you should learn to fly commercially if you really do get excited every time you line up for take off. If you think it would simply be cool to be a pilot and pull a few girls forget it, go get a job that has prospects and impress them with your fat wallet

All of my comments are purely my personal opinion and I must point out I am not in the commercial pilot job market although i do have all the relevant qualifications to allow me to comment fairly

[flyvirgin]

Hi Guys,

I have booked a couple of weeks off work next month,

I plan to use this this to travel to as many Airports, Head offices, flying clubs as I can, to personally hand out my CV,

I see this as a way of getting myself noticed, getting to know the right people,

Has anyone had any luck doing this? Do you think it’s a good idea?

I plan to go to flying clubs to see if I could do some parachute flights, glider towing,

Also I will try my luck with the small turbo prop operators, as well as the Airlines,

I don’t care if it’s a flying job or not, Flight ops to cleaning the aircraft, I will do it,

I’m willing to relocate to anywhere,

If I’m going down, I’m not going without a fight (haha):}

If anyone has any useful addresses please feel free to PM me,

Kind Regards,

Flyvirgin.

[ingdisa]

flyvirgin if you wanna land a job there's one ready for you at Susi Air in Indonesia..I'm not kidding, they're starving for pilots.
pilotjobs179 - Latest Pilot Jobs provides the latest aviation vacancies around the world. (http://www.latestpilotjobs.com/pilotjobs179.html)
Still complaining or you wanna the job?
I'm not advertinsing it..I was in your same position, I waited 15 month to get a pilot job, and now I'm feeling sooo lucky!
Move your ass and come to Indonesia, they're more than welcome to hire you!
Interview is really easy!

[corsair]

That's a good idea, flyvirgin, a trek around various aviation establishments is always a good idea. Quite often you will get a good reception particularly from pilots. They know what it's like. The likes of skydiving and gliding centres are good to visit but you won't get flying with them anytime soon. They have their own specific requirements and low time CPLs don't fit the bill. But if you visit somewhere and they suggest you turn up and help out. I suggest you do so. At worst you'll have a bit of fun, maybe you will make contacts and at best you may even get some work out of it. Pilot who turn up, have a chat, leave their CV and are never seen again will never be contacted.

You do seem to realise that, no one is going to chase you for jobs. That's your role. But if you make enough contacts and get known as a good guy. Sometimes, just sometimes the phone will ring and voice at the other end asks if you would be interested if flying their aeroplane, sometimes they'll even offer to pay you.

All this pays off when you finally get the interview and you have something to talk about other than your old job.

[flyvirgin]

Thanks Corsair,

Some good advice there,

Regards

[freightforlife]

Stuff the airlines. Do what all of us have done and go down the path of GA

[wannabe1000]

I would encourage you to remember that most turbo prop operators consider themselves airlines.

[A330ETOPS]

There are jobs out there. Sitting on pprune all day moaning won't get you anywhere. Emailing cvs won't either. You've gotta get off your arse and go find it, as it won't come to you.

I'm just being honest. I've been there!

[pilot hans]

A330ETOPS is 100% right!! to much people here think the job will just come to them.

[Flyit Pointit Sortit]

Although flyvirgin says that he is not waiting for the job to come to him. He is saying that he is going out with a CV to try and get something.

Flyvirgin, the Aviator in me wishes you all the luck in the world because with an attitude like that you deserve to get something.

However, the Airline Pilot in me says that you will need more than luck because right now Airlines are mainly after people with money to spend rather than people who have the right attitude. :suspect::{

[BoeingDreamer]

The problem even if you have money to spend, they do not want to give you anything more then a taste of the holy grail!

[2 Whites 2 Reds]

flyvirgin - Listen, I know it's tough not having a job. It took me pretty much bang on a year to get mine. Like everyone else, you have sent out many many CV's, email's etc etc. But this won't make you stand out from the crowd.

I ended up working on the ramp for 6 months in between CPL and IR, then after finishing training I worked as Cabin Crew for a summer, then went instructing for a further 6 months before finally landing my job.

My point is that I was able to show my interviewers that I set out to be a well rounded pilot with exerience of what it's like to be the one bringing the tea/coffee into the flight deck and putting up with the self loading freight, and also that I knew exactly what it was like to be the guy out on the ramp in the cold pissing rain chucking bags about and looking up at the flight deck thinking....."one day".

This isn't a holier than thou speech, but just that maybe getting some experience in other aspects of the industry may make yourself more attractive to companies and at the same time you get to network, make money and have a laugh.

Just my 2 penneth....

Good luck.

2W2R

[JASPA]

hiya folks

dont wait for your ship to come in row out and meet it or throw enough sh1t sooner or later some will stick i think most of us have been there good luck to all :ok:

[captainsuperstorm]

you need one thing to get a job: LUCK !

all guys I know who got a job, just got lucky: right place, right time.
I got jobs and I can tell you most of the time, it took me less than 5 minutes to get the job. No need to go to 5 days interview, testing,..., jobs are where they need pilots.
I discover than more they ask, less they need pilot.

still this industry is going nowhere.To spend 2-3 years looking for a job and to finish with a little job for 6 months, is not worth the money.
Especially when they still ask for 500h on type and 3 months recency .Each time you change plane or want fly something bigger, where do you get the job? pay for another 500h line training, and if nothing after 3 months, you are considered non current!!!.
After spending all this money, how do you get your money back? this is why I say there is no future for us because economically it became impossible to make a living in this profession..
Unless you have deep pocket, you may survive a few years with little jobs and have some fun circling in the sky , but sadly the majority of pilots will have to give up.

[flyvirgin]

Hey Guys ,

I have booked time off for the end of the month, to go on my “tour” of the UK, I plan on travelling up and down the country personally handing out my CV,

I hope to meet contacts and gain advice on achieving my goal of securing A flying job, I really don’t care what sort of flying job it is, from air taxi to air surveying, I will take anything,

Could anyone give me advice on how they would approach this trip, I plan to do a full circle of the UK, so for example if we pick the M3, (motorway) the airports around there are Fairoaks, Farnbourgh, Southampton and Bournmouth,
would you research the airports and see who operates from the airport then find information about the operators, chief pilots ETC, then try and catch them on the day for a chat,

What I’m worried about, is turning up at the operators reception, and not getting past the lady on the desk, that would be a wasted journey, How could I approach this?

Any info would be much appreciated, I apologise in advance for dragging this thread on I just want to get the most out of this Journey.

Kind Regards.

PS, I have the money ready for a Instructor rating, But if I start it now, I wont finish until September/October, by that time of year schools are starting to slow up, so I will have less chance of landing a instructing job, So I plan on starting the course next feb, that way I will be ready for spring/summer, more possibilities? Hopefully.

[Wildpilot]

I have read all of this thread and find it stunning that adult who holds a professional qualification cannot figure out how to approach someone or at least make a positive impression.

When I finished training I was on a plane to Africa after many phone calls that gave me the impression that there was a small chance if I turned up. I was training on a C206 within four weeks of my cpl flight test.

This is not to say that you just have to go to Africa it is more about your people skills over the phone and then face to face. I Have found so far that your qualifications are just that, bits of paper that mean legally you could fly but nothing else.

I guess I am lucky I am a confident person when it comes to meeting people and pretty good at reading body language and between the lines. One trick if you like I used is to speak to a chief pilot who would want guys with more hours than you have and explain very briefly that you are aware of this, however if he/she has five minutes could he outline the sort of pilot he wants in the future and does he know anyone who would consider you at this stage so you can get the experience to work for him later on.

Most CP's are tired of newbies asking for jobs when there is no chance, so sometimes this comes across as quite refreshing just asking for there advice. You can then once the ice is broken ask about ramp, office support roles and also ask if he would mind if you kept in contact with updated cv's etc.

Its hard for me to put into words but it is all about your people skills and reading the other person. I turned up in Australia as the market was crashing, I had about 1000hrs as did thousands of other pilots. I was told at the local airport that there was no chance of work anywhere as the market was on its knees. I had a part time air taxi job three weeks later, how, well I looked at the owners website, read his profile and made a few assumptions. At that time I did not have a multi IR so I sold that fact to him, I knew he would have had many pilots come and go with dreams of airliners in the future. So in my email I explained I did not have any interest in the airlines and infact enjoyed SEP VFR work so if he needed a pilot who did not just want to use the company as a stepping stone I was free, he called two days later.

So its time for you to set yourself apart from the others, it has worked for me and I'm now happy flying Cessna Caravan amphibian, probably the greatest flying job I will ever get.

May the force be with you and I hope I made some sense, you are a brand now go and sell it.

[corpus callosum]

Bit of advise when going to Farnborough make sure you are able to get a visitors pass otherwise you wont get past the front door :}

Your best bet would be to research the airports and all the operators but not all operators will be so easy to find stuff about.


Out of interest where are you planning on doing the FI

[captainsuperstorm]

best way to see companies, is to rent a jet, land your plane(biger is better), and park right in front of their office, like this no security,...

and they will think:" this guy has lot of money, mmmh would you be interested by some line training with us?":}

[SpreadEagle]

I'll likely get flamed, because no one likes the truth.

But the truth is the OP is very unlikely to get an airline job. Ever. :(

Lots of people will tell you that you should be an instructor, or bush fly in Africa, or fly float planes etc etc. But this is 2011. You can have 20,000 piston hours and no one will care. There is no airline job that asks for 1000 or indeed any amount of piston hours these days.

You can do all the crappy jobs. You can wash people's planes, fly their students, ferry their customers aircraft all for peanuts. They have businesses to run, they will happily let you do this. They will let you work on their ops desks, or sell their jeppesens, or hump their customer's luggage. But they can't help you get a job. You can waste years doing all that - its accountants, not contacts these days. And you will be told "Its how I got in, I fly jets!" But not after 2008 they didn't, without stumping up for a TR.

The market has changed. Ryan Air and EasyJet want you straight out of your FTO. They want you to buy a TR from them. They don't care if you spent 3 years flying round Tanzania in a Cessna Caravan.
Everyone else just wants ready trained pilots from companies that treat theirs badly like Ryan Air and EasyJet.

If the likes of BA and Virgin want pilots they'll take from low cost. Low cost will go back to those with bags of cash straight from the chosen FTOs. No one will be looking for someone who scraped 1500 hours of piston time. Biz jets, same story.

Finally, have a think about who you get advice from on this site. Statistically 4 out of 5 people, get a license and never secure a job. So who is on this site offering advice? The 4 out of 5 who had to go away and find other professions, or the lucky 20% that did get in? You rarely hear the other side here, because those people aren't pilots, so no longer come to pprune. And those still here 'the chosen ones', didn't want it more nor are they more talented, that I can promise you.

Ryan Air didn't take you. EasyJet will go to their huge pool. You aren't in it. Its over.

What do you do now? I have 1000 piston hours and I haven't figured that out myself.

You may think this isn't advice at all. It doesn't help. But thinking the unthinkable and preparing yourself for what will likely happen to you, will make it a lot less of a shock, when one morning you wake up and admit you p*ssed 80k away. A horrible post to read I know, but its a horrible reality. Sorry.

[Wildpilot]

Its only accurate for Europe and nothing is keeping you there, I am from the UK and have not one commercial hour there. For the African continent, Australia, NZ and many other countries hours do count.

For an airline down under they generally have a min of 1500-2000hrs and 500hrs twin. You may have to pay for a TR but they will not entertain you otherwise. Sitting in the UK getting depressed is a choice, the industry is huge covering the globe. And no it is not easy to find work but that generally filters the weak from the strong.

Before you all say I can't get visa's etc, I did not have the right to live anywhere but Europe when I started out a few years ago but I made it happen.

On the other side for me anyway I have professional pride, I want to be a well rounded aviator not just some Muppet with 200hrs and TR. And all of that GA work builds your awareness and airman ship and means you gain some respect from other pilots you work with in the future. And if nothing else have some great tales to tell in the pub.

Those that give up make more room for those that don't, enjoy flight sim boys!

[captainsuperstorm]

It's crisis(crisis=madness), nobody will give you a job as long pilots pay to work.
why should they?

30 years ago, you could get a job with a PP, later a CPL, then a ATP frozen, 10 years ago a MCC, 5 years ago a T/R, 2 years ago 500h online, now you need thousand hours of line training, several type rating, and each airline want you buy their line training.

where do you see yourself in 5 years?(typical HR question)

giving more dosh to these jackass???:ugh: then be 40 or 50, still competing with punks of 22-25 spending all daddy'saving in line training. In 5 years, you will have to pay 300'000 euro, for Captain line training without any guaranty they emloy you.

Get real! this market is OVER! you will still have a moron who will destroy a paid job of somebody else because flying a plane is fun, it 's a hobby, so why should they pay you if you have a good time to fly their planes!!!.

Instead make a job that nobody want do, toilet cleaner, body guard in Irak,dentist, or any hit a lick' job! work and save for 20 years, 30 if you have to , make lot of dosh, then pay for line training and spend all your money in a 0 to hero pilot training, and maybe they will let you fly for 500h their orange shiny jet before they kick you out for the next punk !.

LINE TRAINING, P2F, CPL, MCC = THE BIGGEST SCAM IN THE WORLD...ask the CAA. they have even scamed you, these f... :mad:ds!!

[SpreadEagle]

SpreadEagle's concert analogy.

Imagine pprune to be a website for concert lovers. In the other fora there are happy fans who went to see Britney Spears last night, or maybe they are complaining that n-sync weren't quite as good as they had hoped.

But you are now in the wannabe section of pprune. This is the "We bought our tickets on the internet off a thieving pikey" forum.

You are wondering why, when you have paid for your tickets, that they did not come through your letter box? You spent lots of time filling in all your bank details and it cost lots of money. But still no tickets. :*

Some will tell you if you go to these concerts and set out the chairs for a few years, one day they will let you see a concert for free. It happened to a guy named Bob back in 2005. It could happen to you. In fact here is Bob. He totally enjoyed the Foo Fighters. That's what he recommends. :ok:

Some people will tell you if you go back to the pikey site and now order a backstage pass for £27,000, your tickets and the backstage pass will arrive together very soon. That has to be worth investigating.

And some people will tell you if you want those tickets bad enough, the gypsies will eventually send them to you. You just have to really want them. :rolleyes:

Now swap dishonest pikey for FTO (not a huge leap of imagination), and concert ticket for airline job.

When do you think your tickets will arrive?

[flyvirgin]

because ryanair never took me my whole aviation career is over!!!!

[SpreadEagle]

Not necessarily. Is your dad and arab oil magnate?

[Jerry Lee]

SpreadEagle, shut up! Stop saying bullsh*t! It's not true. Contractor pilot jobs in Africa may help low-hour pilots; I know several pilots flying Airbus (one in easyJet) and Boeing and biz jets after have flown in Africa for a while.
Nowadays, at the start of our careers we low hour pilots have to be very flexible and willing to fly anywhere and anything!
Africa, Middle East, Asia, Oceania (not Oz and NZ), Maldives!
Make a bit of experience and then give a look at Air Mekong and cariers like it.

I will pay for a TR only if there's a serious job offer, but straight after my flight training I will go in Belize to build up some hours on the Caravan and then give fly in Africa.

[KFTW]

Hi,
i have got Ryanair interview in early 2008 but didnt success,since then logged 900hrs(+360hrs when did interview)working as FI but not a single call from airline or charter.
When i started people said once you have 700 to 800 hrs small operater intrested in you now i got 1200hrs but still no call,some time i receive email from airline or charter says you are not eligible,y?i have JAA fATPL,MCC,Class i Med,current on all rating :{ finally thinking towards PF line training schem bcz its look like only way to seat there.

Best of luck to all,
Regards,
KFTW

[Jerry Lee]

SpreadEagle, I like the fact that you want to help us, and for that I thank you and ask sorry for my previous stupid and infantil post.

But this is a hard period, the recession has hit also the other working sectors, so that aviation is not in a good period at the moment doesn't mean the other jobs are in a better situation.
I don't know in you country, but in mine there are a lots of graduate from uni that graduated with the highest mark possible and they work in a supermarket as caschier... one of them is a my friend who graduated in psychology with 110/110 with honours.

I will either follow my dreams or get a Bachelor's Degree in Computer Science Engineering (I like it a bit) or Business Administration and work only for money.

[SloppyJoe]

Jerry Lee:

You will go to Belize straight after flight school to fly a Caravan.

Let me guess, Tropic Air. I worked as a skydive pilot in the US for a while flying a Caravan and thought I need to branch out and do something other than up and down from the same airfield. 1500hrs, 300PIC in a caravan. Not a chance with Tropic Air. Maybe things have changed since 2002 and now you can walk into Tropic air with 250 hours and no time on type.

Good luck.

[Jerry Lee]

Actually, Tropic Air is running a program with a flight school in U.S. for building hours, and there are no flight requirements, as far as I know.

[SloppyJoe]

And you have a place on this scheme? I am sure Tropic Air like every other company now is making money from these students going to this specific school. Have you ever called them or emailed them asking about employment opportunities? Hope you get in but if you are basing your plan on getting a job with Tropic Air and you are not on their scheme you are being very foolish. If you are, well done am sure it would be a great place to fly.

[captainsuperstorm]

spreadeagle,

don't waste your time, aviation will always attract naive pople like you and me.
we are all in the same sinking boat full of holes, you can not prevent people to realize their "wet" dream.

Aviation is like the EU lottery, you have 1/6'000'0000 chance to win the jackpot, still plenty of people playing.We are all a bunch of dreamers in this world, all a bunch of players(especially men).

the most important is to realize that you won't be happier because you have forked out all this money in this aviation scam.Many pilots complain about their job.

There was a show recently on TV, an italian lady(30 years old), 6 years at UNI, now cleaning the streets in Roma for minimu salary (1500 euro), and she is very happy to have a ****ty PAID job!

Take a break, go on holyday and have a life, f... aviation and come back in 2-3 years and have a good laugh at all these guys who have been scamed in T/R + 500h line training and still jobless...:} in 2 years ,P2F and schemes, whatever you call this scam , will be everywhere, again: who should the pay you, why???

[sonsal]

@sloppyjoe,
I think you work for cathay pacific, would you like to share about your flying experience over the years about how you finally got in cathay as deck crew.
Where all you worked and how was it.......I believe it will give little bit motivation to guys....

[rupert360]

hello all,

i'm a first time poster here and, like many, fall firmly into the wannabes category since i am still currently at the PPL stage. However, I've been following many threads on this forum for a while and thought it about I aired a couple of views...feel free to criticise as appropriate!

I agree with many of the views aired on this thread about the bleak outlook for the airline industry but it is ridiculous to believe that this will continue indefinitely into the future. Recessions, unfortunately because of our free market system, come and go. This one decimated many companies and adversely affected many more. However, it will end. And with it, increased investment, business and, by association, jobs.

Secondly, all professions are extremely competitive. I know lawyers who have shelled out a lot for the postgraduate training only to find themselves struggling to get that first job. We all love flying and who ever thought it would be easy to get that first job?

Lastly, we (as Brits) have to stop thinking within our own borders so much. The world does not start and end with Ryanair and Easyjet! Even though they are the most ubiquitous carriers in the UK we have the whole EU to think about and then that lingering behemoth ASIA which is touted to have VERY strong growth in its aviation industries between now and 2030.

Interesting article in the FT the other day backing up this last point: Aviation: At full throttle - FT.com (http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/bbeb6150-a736-11e0-b6d4-00144feabdc0.html#axzz1RM9i7yom)

Anyway, my point is although it's bleak from a business point of view things will imrpove and I disagree with those who say 'it's over'

Best of luck to all job seekers,:ok:

[Wildpilot]

Good work Flyvirgin,

There are those on here that have given up and basically are trying to make themselves feel better by convincing others to do the same. My career is on track my 61 pilot friends on FB are all employed, they did not give up. They have had hard times and breaks here and there from flying but all are on course.

It is very hard to get into and I would not recommend people to train at the moment but if you have the quals under your belt then keep going. Take strength from the guys who fall by the wayside and spend allot of time dwelling on the negative. You will find there are many professions that are extremely hard to get a break in, we are not unique.

And open your mind people, being an airline pilot is not the only job that pays well in aviation and is definately not the most fun.

I can't be bothered to carry on with this thread anymore as I have to go flying. While I'm sitting on the floats of my caravan with my toes in the tropical water at some beautiful beach I can think of worse jobs, whilst waiting for the bikini clad passengers to arrive.

The experience is related to what you put in, remain as positive as you can at all times, don't get dragged down by the dead beats of pprune and other places. Negativity is a disease in this and many other industries, yes the T & C's could be better and yes the money could be allot better but its not. If its going to drag you down so far you can no longer enjoy the good parts then get out before you get a break.

All the best

[Prop_Man11]

Hi flyvirgin,

I'm in the same boat as you and I finished flight school in 2009, and I still haven't landed my first job.

I am going to offer you another option that most people don't talk about. Something different from just getting an instructors rating, especially if you can't afford one. It's what I am doing at the moment. Its not as fast as building time as an instructor or rewarding but it helps in a way that keeps your skills and knowledge fresh and not to rust up. Also it kind of helps you get a small foot in the door with a company with out you even knowing it.

I'm from the Caribbean and I found a small single crew operation that fly's BN2 Islanders for charters and a small schedule service around the close Islands. I approached the owner and asked if I could sit right seat to learn and gain some experience from them and even gain some hours if possible. I had a long meeting with the owner and he basically told me that's fine but he's not going to pay me and its at my own risk. Because if the flight is full coming back to base. I'm stuck where ever I am and I have to pay my own hotel for the night and try get home on the next days flights or find another operator to jumpseat back with. Also the other thing is, I can't log leg sectors with paxs on board but can log empty sectors as PIC/under supervision. So as you can appreciate, there isn't much empty sectors. I took all that home and had a good think about it all. In the end I said f#*k it. I'm going to give it a go, got nothing else to do, and of I went flying all over the Caribbean. With all that said, another privilege came my way not to long after when they realised how passionate and determine I was (and trust me, it wasn't easy having to sometimes find your own way home after being stuck somewhere). Over here in the Caribbean, the aviation authority says that its a requirement to fly 2 crew at night or in IFR conditions if the aircraft is not equip with a usable autopilot on board. With that said and only one aircraft fitted with an autopilot, I was given the opportunity to fly night flights and ifr flights as co-pilot and log those hours as SIC as long as I did my OPC on the aircraft, which I did. For these flights now I started to get paid for but it wasn't much and there isn't much night or ifr flights here.

Anyway, to cut a long story short. I've been with the company now nearly a year now and I've nearly build up 150 hours more. Not a lot but more than what I would have had just sitting at home on my ass. The other thing is now, the owner has spoken to his insurance people and they have come to an agreement to put me on the insurance once I reach a requirement of 500TT, 250ME and 50hrs on type. Which I'm almost close to (hopefully by the end of the year as season is slow now) which also means I can get hired fully soon.

I not sure if this is any help as I don't know how the industry is like near you, but no harm trying to find out and find something of the same operation near you and approach them the same way. Just another option to look at if possible and help you not to sit around and get your skills rusty. Its not as rewarding yet but still just as fun. This way you stay on top of things while you wait and who knows where it might lead.

Another thing that cTcPilot posted that I like, QUOTE 'You need a few years on old turboprops, that will put hairs on your chest or some single pilot IFR work' UN-QUOTE before u hit the big boys and just be patient. There is A LOT of us out there in the same boat and out there a lot longer than you, trust me. Just try and do something out the norm to get ahead and be willing to bend over backwards for it.

I hope this helps and has you thinking about other ways to get a head. Good luck buddy, we all need it.

P.s. What Coffin Corner said about getting your licence in the time of a recession. This is the best time because we will be ready and able for when the next hiring boom comes along.

[Jerry Lee]

Good post Rupert!:ok:

[Felix Saddler]

I firmly believe SpreadEagle to be right on the money here.

[Wildpilot]

I must be imagining my situation and many many other then.

[captainsuperstorm]

Prop Man,

good for you, but you know, all these jobs bring you nowhere at the end.
got 2000h BN2? not paid? and then where do you go? fly a B747 as a captain at 30'000$ or still be unemployed or making crap flying job qt 30-40-50 years old.

it s ok when you are 20-25, but after you will be pissed when later you are still unpayed despite the fact you have spent lot of money and time in this business.

have fun on your Bn2 and other cessna!:ok:

[Pelikanpete]

Sadly the wannabe's section of prune is a place where pilots in training convince pilots about to start training that it's a good idea. Of course the later group assume the first group are experienced pilots and worth listening to because that's what they want to believe.

Occasionally someone (with misplaced but good intentions) who has successfully got a job (against all the odds) comes along and relays their own tale and the wannabe's latch on to this as justification to waste more months and another few thousand to chase the dream - "double or quits, if I give up now I've wasted all the money I've spent so far, so I'll spend some more and just hope".

Spreadeagle's comments are the sad truth. It's a numbers game - there are probably ten times more pilots training than actuals jobs. Even in good economic times there have always been many who fail to ever get their first job and eventually have had to give up. But currently and for the last few years every month that passes means another few hundred joining the queue, determined to never give up however hopeless it is. The surplus is so large it can never be cleared.

[KAG]

Rupert360:Lastly, we (as Brits) have to stop thinking within our own borders so much. The world does not start and end with Ryanair and Easyjet! Even though they are the most ubiquitous carriers in the UK we have the whole EU to think about and then that lingering behemoth ASIA which is touted to have VERY strong growth in its aviation industries between now and 2030. Did you know that China cannot continue for ever to request more and more energy (oil)? To feed its growth China needs every year more oil. 20 years at the actual growth rate? No way, as simply as that. Anyway they already have billions of people to train if they really do need pilot, they are not expecting you. Foreigners in Asia are most of the times experienced captain... So you have to become an experienced captain before coming to China... Go figure... You are back to your initial issue, finding a job. Anyway making economic plans for the next 20 years that is foolish.




Pelikanpete: so true.





--------------------------------------------

***Reminder to any wannabe: the british Richard Branson (virgin), the german army, the french prime minister, the american army gave some warnings: within 5 years the energy cost, especially oil, will most likely reach an unsustainable level. Think twice...

[captainsuperstorm]

VERY strong growth in its aviation industries between now and 2030.It doesn't mean they want you, why should they?do you think they will call you one day, and ask you to come to china because you have a blue license?? wouahah!get real!
Housings and life is now too expensive for chinese people, it can not grow like this for ever.If they need copilot, they will send their own guys to USA for training, they will never hire UK boys with their little 700h (500h on airbus).


Pilots want convince themselves and their family that there are job and their license worth something!
There is no job in aviation..If you don't belive me: send some CV, probably no one will answer to you, if they answer , they will tell you: "keep in file", or "reapply in 6 months", or "no opening".

you are bunch of dreamers and in 5 years, most pilots will be out of this industry with new fresh idiots dreamng exactly of the same.
I have seen thousand, all got married, kids, and have been forced to give up aviation.

Aviation is a man' dream! it' s not a profession anymore .:ugh:it's like these men buying houses, swiming pool, jacuzzi and a plane in the garage at malibu beach or whatever you want. ad 2-3 nices cars.... aviation is part of their dream!
Pilots who say they will fly for nothing, or will be happy to fly for anything, are exactly this type of men! a bunch of spoiled kids! this industry became a joke, a farce, a monkey zoo!!!!so go get some fun with your Bn2...and see if you can make a living afterall!

still if you don;t belive me that you screwed, look at the trend of this last 50 years, have you seen improvment in the aviation industry.

requirement 50years ago: PP.
30 years ago: CPL
20 years ago:CPL+MCC
5 years ago:CPL+MCC+LT
now: 500h LT and then OUT!!!
tomorrow: ????(oh yes, china will hire you but regrettably you are too old:p)

[cerealkiller]

flyvirgin if you wanna land a job there's one ready for you at Susi Air in Indonesia..I'm not kidding, they're starving for pilots.
pilotjobs179 - Latest Pilot Jobs provides the latest aviation vacancies around the world. (http://www.latestpilotjobs.com/pilotjobs179.html)
Still complaining or you wanna the job?
I'm not advertinsing it..I was in your same position, I waited 15 month to get a pilot job, and now I'm feeling sooo lucky!
Move your ass and come to Indonesia, they're more than welcome to hire you!
Interview is really easy!

Unfortunately it is no more like that.
Even in Susi Air now they are looking for at least 600/700 hours.
No more chance for low houred guys.
I sent my cv to several different addresses I got from a friend of mine and never got a reply.
Somebody who's currently working there told me the requirements are those now.

[captainsuperstorm]

I got from a friend of mine and never got a reply

they don't need pilot. Every day they receive hundrd of CV.

who is the idiot who say they are starving.is this guy working at susi?

get real, there are thousand of pilots looking for job all around the planet, and a few job available... there is no shortage of pilot. are you idiot to not to see it??? there is few chance to get a job at susi so many applicants they receive.:ugh: