CAA...fuddy duddies!

[UKSquiff]

I don't know if you guys (in the UK) watched the programme 'Extraordinary Dogs?'

The South African Airport of Dhuban, employs 2x Border Collie Dogs to clear birds from the Airside environment..and have done so since 2003 I believe.

The results are extraordinary...along with keeping the Grass at a nominal level, the team in Dhuban, have shown that the use of dogs in this role, cuts the danger from Birdstrikes significantly. (the results are online for all to see)

I am a dog trainer by profession, and was fascinated by the programme.

I don;t believe that Collies are the ideal dog for the job however, and think Gundogs such as Springer Spaniels / Labradors etc would be more suitable.

I contacted the team in Dhuban, who send me a contact email in the UK...A nice gentlemen, who informed me that the concept of using dogs in this manner in the UK, was at best frowned upon by the CAA on the grounds of safety!...hmmm...so the fact that Bird Colonies such as Seagulls and Canada Geese are rapidly becoming, not only a danger in the USA for instance...but an epidemic, is not danger enough?

Let's just get a poor sod out on Airside, with pyrotechnics..that'll do it eh?...well...no...is the simple answer!...birds are not stupid!.....this method is at best temporary...at worst..useless!...a predatory animal on constant patrol, will see off any and all encroaching wildlife..always!

Birdstrike incidence worldwide, is growing..year on year!...yes, that wonderful (and expensive piece of kit at an airport near you...Avian Radar) is very good at detecting Birds!..woohoo.....but, radar is also very good at detecting an exocet missile.....but pretty damn useless at stopping it!

As an air traveller...I would feel a damn sight safer...with a hound dog scaring away intrusion from wildlife...than a Fireman with a firecracker!...dunno about you guys?

All I can say is congratulations to the South African Authorities for their forward thinking approach...and utter shame on the British CAA for their draconian viewpoint, thinly disguised as a 'safety issue'

poppycock!

[Chuchinchow]

WTF is "Dhuban"?

[UKSquiff]

typo...should have been Durban:ok:

[Spitoon]

A nice gentlemen, who informed me that the concept of using dogs in this manner in the UK, was at best frowned upon by the CAA on the grounds of safety!That's not how the CAA says it works these days. The airport should do a risk assessment of the birdstrike threat and, if necessary, mitigate the risk to an acceptable level. If the use of dogs as a mitigating measure can be implemented safely - as shown through a Safety Case - and in compliance with any relevant prescriptive rules then the CAA should accept it.

I presume that the dogs would always be accompanied by a handler (rather than allowed to roam on their own). It sounds similar to the use of hawks which has been used successfully at some airports in the UK but, as far as I am aware, not on a long term basis because they are far more costly than other techniques that are considered to work well enough (when applied properly). One problem that is difficult to mitigate when trying to argue the safety of animals is that they may scare a flock of birds into the air and into the path of an aircraft - something that a fireman with a firecracker will not do with the proper training. I suspect that it would be far easier to argue for the use of dogs at a quieter airport than a busy one but the additional costs would then be less easy to bear, regardless of how effective the dogs were.

I'm not saying that I disagree with your point completely - but, equally, I can understand a cautious approach from the CAA.

I presume Poppycock is one of your dogs??????

[UKSquiff]

Hi Spitoon,

Thanks for your reply..It was most interesting.

Yes, the gentleman in question, was not actually CAA (my mistake)..he was in charge of the UK's Birdstrike prevention team...whoever they are?

In regards to the danger of a Dog scaring Birds towards a live aircraft..well, I don't have much info on that...the Authorities in SA have published their results online, but I appear to have temporarily lost the link..as I kinda gave up on the idea once I hit a bit of a brick wall.

There were of course, a team of two Dog Handlers at Durban, working shift patterns.. and presumably the reason they used Border Collies, is their ability to follow instructions to the letter...safety was mentioned in the TV program, but it was pointed out that the approach of the Dog and handler, was from an area which would scare the birds in a predetermined direction (didnt totally understand the logistics of that I'm sorry to report)

I did at one point, think about contacting someone at NCL about the possibilities, but felt it might screw my chances of getting a job on the ramp...but as thats screwed anyway...I might have nothing to lose now!...lol


(and no..poppycock isnt one of my Dogs...but certainly has a ring to it!...maybe I'll call my next one that!):ok:

[42psi]

At most UK airports (certainly the larger ones) wildlife control is not carried out by the fire service.

A range of ways & means are used dependent on the particular problem at that airfield.

Most "resident" birds are not stupid and using only one method of control doesn't work very well at all.

Personally I'm not convinced that having a dog wandering around loose near runways is a bright idea.

A person walking off a lead is likely to be just as effective and slightly less unpredictable :}

As for birds of prey .. hawks can be effective in a limited way ... problem is once they've had a fly around and eaten that's it for the day(s).

They can be useful as a way of varying the deterrent which is what you need to keep the beggars guessing.

Bird control is all about manging the environment first and then making it easier for them to go and eat/sleep/breed elsewhere rather than on your airfield.

[763 jock]

In the UK, your dog would need a Hi Viz and ear defenders for starters. He/she would also need a Criminal Records Check prior to being issued with an airside pass.

Of course there will be lots of other hoops to jump through.:O

[UKSquiff]

Perhaps we're just lucky in the |UK...it's becoming a problem of epidemic proportions in other Countries....with Canada goose populations growing at an alarming rate...it's probably a question of 'When' rather than 'If':uhoh:

As incidents rise, agencies strive to solve growing birdstrike threat: AINonline (http://www.ainonline.com/news/single-news-page/article/as-incidents-rise-agencies-strive-to-solve-growing-birdstrike-threat-22301/)

[UKSquiff]

now THAT did make me laugh:D 763 Jock!..hahaha

[UKSquiff]

But actually, what I find most frustrating, is it's not a new idea...it's not my idea...and it's PROVEN to work!

But the CAA won't even look into it properly....in that traditional British Way...they just ignore the 'Ordinary people'

If they just took the time to look at what a Border Collie does in it's everyday working role of herding...often out of sight of the Shepherd...following instructions better than most humans can manage..they would see that this animal has potential that is being overlooked by old fashioned ignorance!

If you had watched the TV programme...you would change your opinions..I'm sure of that.

And I hope to God, I never have to come here and say "This could have been prevented"


But hey!...don't take my word for it
http://www.birdstrikecontrol.com/africapaper.pdf