Penang, Western Hill and Butterworth

[SRENNAPS]

I am off to Penang, Malaysia tomorrow, with my wife, to celebrate our 30th wedding anniversary and return to the amazing playground I experienced as a child between 1968 and 1971.

My old man was stationed at Western Hill and on the mainland at Butterworth.
Many things have changed but I know that many areas of where we lived are still the same. I am hoping to visit Western Hill and RMAF Butterworth…….you never know a bit of sweet talking might help.

If anyone here (from the old crowd) would like me to take a particular picture of anything, give me a message and I will do my best to get it. I will be leaving for Heathrow at midday tomorrow.

MODS if you wish to move this thread to nostalgia than feel free. I thought I would put it here first to grab attention:ok::ok:

[Robert Cooper]

Good luck on your trip, hope all goes well. I was out there in 1962, so can't imagine how it looks now.

Bob C

[lauriebe]

Have a safe trip and welcome back to Penang!:ok:

Bob C, it has changed a great deal from those days in the 60s.

[Wyler]

I spent two great (and sweaty :eek:) years there (2002/03). Great culture, even better food but I don't miss the smell. Doubt you will get onto Butterworth though.

Enjoy the food and the bargains at the Night Market!!

Enjoy

[pasir]

... Will probably be a great trip - BUT !!!
If Singapore is anything to go by then be prepared to find that the areas you knew so well - and probably most other areas - have altered out of all recognition.

In 1951 - once out of the city much of Singapore mainland was almost Jungle like - Today Singapore is about 90 percent cement and housing coast to coast - Most former British bases and camps have nearly all dissapeared under high rise housing estates Nevertheless a great place to visit and enjoy - Wish you well.


...

[[email protected]]

I took part in a CFS visit to Malaysia in 06 and operated at Butterworth. The Malaysians were fantastically hospitable and it would be worth a letter or an email to the CO to try and get on to camp as I am sure they would host you well.

[Cubanate]

Visited there in 1968 and stayed for 2 weeks in the Runnymede Hotel. Flew to RAAF Butterworth in a RNZAF Bristol Freighter from RAF Tengah, and returned 'home' to Seletar in a RAF Andover. Happy days.

Last visited in 1996 when operating a Nimrod from Butterworth but staying in the Rasa Sayang hotel on Penang. Huge changes since the 60s; the causeway, the Snake Temple (now surrounded by concrete instead of paddyfields), and the Runnymede is now an army barracks. Some things don't change - while we were there a local newspaper reported that a man went to look for his brother who had been missing for a time and found him half ingested by a python!

[forget]

A few miles North of Butterworth's main gate is the Elephant Bar. Could you get me a photograph of the two Thai bar maids who work permanent nights. You may have to ask around as this was 1968. :hmm:


(OP info. RMAF Base Butterworth +61 2 6265 9111 for international callers.)

[lauriebe]

[email protected], I agree, hospitality during visits is first class. Unfortunately, the system for arranging such visits can be somewhat lengthy and must be done through the Defence Staff of the Brit High Commission in KL who forward requests to the Malaysian MinDef.

I started arranging such a visit for ex-Butterworth/Penang people at the end of Nov 09 for a planned visit at the end of April last year. We got the green light the day before the actual visit was to take place. We were very well looked after by the Base staff at Butterworth during the visit though.

Cubanate, I remember the Python incident well. It got a mention in the local press again a few weeks ago.

[Brian 48nav]

We were on holiday there in '96, and I well remember being put off my breakfast by the picture on the front page of the paper (New Straits Times?), showing the guy's legs protruding from the python.

Great place; No1 son was born in Changi in '69 and after I did my final Herc trip to Singapore in '73 I never thought I'd get back there. But maybe we CAA controllers weren't so badly paid later on, as we managed 7 holidays there from '88 to '02, the last only 4 months after 911 ( or 119 as it should be in proper language!) and the locals in Malaysia were so pleased to have tourists coming so soon after that event.

Can't afford business class fares now, so haven't been for 9 years.

Have a great holiday!

[sled dog]

Perhaps the python had a "crush" on the bloke ? sorry
Had some great times at Butterworth / Penang many moons ago, but greatly disapointed with Singapore ( and other Far Eastern places ) when visiting recently. The smells have gone, which added to the atmosphere :{ Penang was good years ago, but now ?

[Pontius Navigator]

I remember, IIRC, the funicular railway to the top of Penang. The beautiful park in Victorian fashion even with a drinking water fountain. When you pressed the button the water jetted 10 feet. Of course if you were bent over it with your mouth open . . .

Nearby was a restaurant with toilets. Entering the restaurant you did not need to eat a curry, just took a deep breath.

Or the bazzar where every time we went in we were encouraged to go in to one shop, sit down, and have a drink. Whiskey was the first offer and iced coke if you refused the whiskey.

[lauriebe]

PN, the funicular railway has been closed since February last year for a major re-vamp. Gone is the middle station where a change of trains was made. The journey now will be in modern style air conditioned carriages which make the run from bottom to top stations in about 15 - 20 minutes, as opposed to the 30 minutes previously. As yet, the railway has not been re-opened but that is likely next month. Presently, trips to the top are made by 4x4 up the jeep track which starts at the Botanic Gardens.

The restaurant at the top of the hill has also been completely renovated and is a nice spot to spend time. The fountain, I think, has gone.

Sandy Parts, there is still an RAAF contingent at the base but entry is controlled by the RMAF. I have tried a few times at the Guardroom to see if I could get visitors on but no joy.

Cubanate mentioned the Runnymede earlier. That now lies empty, the Army moved out a couple of years ago. There was mention that it could be restored as a hotel although not much work in that direction seems to have been done so far.

[Barksdale Boy]

Aaahh! The Runnymede of blessed memory. I well recall detachments to Butterworth in 68 and 69. The Runnymede was always a welcome, air conditioned relief from the bashas at Butterworth and a bolt hole once it became obvious that you weren't going to make it back to the mainland before curfew. We used to exist all weekend on beer and their excellent steak sandwiches. Another era, another Air Force.

[fergineer]

Was there late last year and the place I used to live with the parents in 1962 was still there in the road where the Aussies lived in big houses on one side and we brits lived in smaller ones on the other side. The Australian Hostel was demolished just the week before we arrived. Minden barracks school is now a Univercity how things change everywhere else but the school and my old house in Jalan Bungah Bakawalli remained the same.

[TBM-Legend]

Three years of bliss in the early 70's.

[Charlie Luncher]

E&O for a G&T as the sun sets, followed by a trap run, some satay cat taking in the odour of durian(sp?/) as you wait for the cat to cook. Roties for breakie, would be my choice, it is the wet so Penang should be clean:sad:
Charlie sends

[soddim]

Took a pair of F4's into Butterworth circa '72 and met an interesting Brit lady who had been banned from the Officers Mess. Had to ask her why and the reply was 'Because I put my footprints on the ceiling'. Naturally I needed more explanation and that was when she told me that it was because she had no knickers on at the time.

Still can't believe that is a valid reason for being banned from an Aussie Mess.

[Pontius Navigator]

I was tempted to buy a house near the base of the fornicular. Just being built and only £1000 - about 10 months pay>

[polyglory]

Lauriebe,

Since our days in the sixties, the changes to me will be massive since 68 when I was tourex.However all things being equal in about two years I shall be dropping in on the way back to Oz, to show the CO how life is lived.:)

[smujsmith]

Penang was a great place to get a few days off on the way back from Aussie when I was a GE on Albert. I will never forget my 3 days off at "Golden Sands" ? We were staying at the Shangri La, Penang, and our Co, happened to know that Golden sands was a sister hotel and got us a transfer. Absolute bliss for 3 days. Have a great time.

Smudge

[lauriebe]

Polyglory, let me know when mate. Most of our old "watering holes" have now, sadly, closed. Will be good to pull up a sandbag and swing the lights again. CO might have a shock though!:ok:

Smudge, The Shangri La is now known as the Traders and the Golden Sands had a big make over a few years ago. Both still very good hotels.

No regrets at having retired here.

[angels]

Smuj, laurie, I stayed at the Golden Sands many times in the mid to late 90s when I was based in Singapore. Then it was the inferior of the Shangri La. We got to know not to get rooms at the northern end as the mosque would wake you up early!

Is the reggae bar still going on the strip?? The guy had never been to Jamaica and was obviously demented because he lusted hugely after my mother-in-law when we there once!

Happy days.

[Firestreak]

I did a tour with the IADS based at Butterworth in the early 90's. In my office was an old fashioned ink blotter, the sort of semi-horseshoe shaped effort with a handle. It bore a silver plaque which simply said RAF Western Hill with some dates from the 50's. I was sorely tempted for it to fall into my luggage when I left but desisted, wonder if it's still there?

[Whenurhappy]

Doing military history research in Malaysia can be a bit of a problem, to say the least. About 6 years ago I was funded to go out to Malaysia and Singapore to revisit some of the LL from the Emergency (1948-1960) and to get access to archives and to extant military and police locations I had to apply some 3 months beforehand to the 'Economic Research Unit' of the Prime Minister's Department (don't be confused by the name - nothing to do with the economy or research; more about internal security and control). In spite of the DAdv and his team pushing this, approval wasn't granted so I chanced it and got great assistance from the RMP HQ in KL, but on the basis that I didn't acknowledge them.

In spite of the relaxed approach in Malaysia, they are particularly sensitive about military and security matters. Singapore - generally regarded as a particularly anal state - by contrast, could not have been more helpful and they opened up all sort of Internal Security archives for me.

In the end I never got the access to the archives that I wanted/needed in KL, but found the 'Foreign Relations of the US' and the CIA archives at the National Archives and Records Administration in Maryland, US ,had a lot of the HUMINT documents I needed!

[lauriebe]

Angels, not a lot to choose between the two hotels now and, as my apartment is just 250 yards away from the Golden Sands, the mosque is my early morning call!! Have to check on the reggae bar but I think it has gone.

Firestreak, are you sure of those dates? Western Hill did not start operating until around August 1966. We all trooped over for the official first day of ops only for some of us to have to move back to Butterworth to man the Aussie kit again when the TPS34 (useless piece of kit!) went u/s. In the 50s, it would have been 487 SU until 114 MCRU (RAAF) took over in 1958. Western Hill took over from 114.

Whenurhappy, I had the same problem when researching a 60 Sqn Vampire crash from 1952. All the newspapers from that time are stored in the National Archive in KL and I needed to go through the route that you mention to view them. I did, however, manage a couple of visits to obtain most of what I wanted without getting the proper authority but was very politely informed that for more I would need to go down the official route.

[RequestPidgeons]

Firestreak, you must have been SOFTR. RM?

[TT2]

I always like to visit Penang - the grub is great. And the second hand bookshops. Pop into the Banana Guest House front lounge - o.k., it's down to a price but the dim sum is worth the visit. Them prawns in rice paper.......oooerr. And the wonton in broth, arrrrrr.......some of the curry houses are just excellent. Good grief, I can feel an airplane ticket coming on at the mention.

Enjoy!.

[Firestreak]

Lauriebe, could well have been the 60s, I was guessing at the 50s but really wasn't sure, too many beers at the Hostie on Gurney Drive have dimmed the memory.

[SRENNAPS]

So nice to see this thread pop up again, especially as it was just over two years ago we went. I was thinking about it just the other day (32nd Wedding Aniversary) on how fast time as past and how much we enjoyed it.

Then, with amazing coincidence, I saw this thread yesterday and realised that I have never placed a post after the trip.

Well we had an absolutely wonderful time and my wife just fell in love with the place. Everywhere has changed dramatically, but the basics (road structure, many buildings, landscape etc) was exactly as I remembered it when I was just 11 years old.
We saw the 4 houses that we lived in at Hillside, Tanjung Tokong and a street named Jalan Kilat on the mainland down the road from Butterworth.

First day there I took my wife on a complete walking tour of Hillside including a walk up the winding Jungle Road where we had played as kids. A chap let us into the reservoir when I told him we use to play there as there were no fences or locked gates in those days. I got some great photos. Sadly Scout Rock is no longer there and they have built houses on stilts where the rock use to be!

Also saw my old school at Minden Barracks (now the University), Butterworth (via the new bridge and returned on the old ferry), and of course Penang Hill; fortunately the new train up the hill opened on the day of our wedding anniversary, that was so good!:O:O

All in all we saw the whole island and so many happy memories came flooding back. If I can be honest there was dust in my eyes when we landed at Penang and dust in my eyes when we left.:{

We have talked about how we could go and live there, but I am not sure that it would be possible.

Anybody in Penang want to hire an ex RAF engine basher who now specialises in supportability management of deployable communication IT equipment?? I am pretty adaptable at most things. :8;);)

[TT2]

Guv',if you have a couple of quid stashed away or a pension, Malaysia makes it really easy to live and buy property. You would be amazed how relaxed they are. It's a nice place.

Don't swither - go for it!.

[NutLoose]

Brian 48nav, you might enjoy this

1960?s aircraft photo archive (http://www.focalplanes.co.uk/the-1960s-photo-archive/)

[Davita]

In 1955 I had just graduated as a Halton brat (18 years old) when detached, via a Hastings, to RAF Butterworth to service our Canberra Sqn. No? which was engaged in bombing the Communist Terrorists in the jungles of Malaya. This detachment was very influential to my future as I savoured the delights of Asian food, girls, attitude and weather.
After returning to UK on a Canberra, to be quickly engaged in the attacks on the Egyptian airfields during the Suez crisis, I then found myself leaving Liverpool on the SS Oxfordshire to Singapore.
On arrival, in company with some ship friends who had started a skiffle group which later became the Barron Knights Group in UK, we were dispatched by train accompanied with bren guns, as security, back to Butterworth, where I spent 18 months servicing transit aircraft.
My time enjoying Penang was terminated as the airfield was handed over to be RAAF Butterworth and I drove my new (to me) Riley Pathfinder all the way to Singapore via RAF KL. My girl friend (a telephone operator from Bukit Mertajam) later followed and we married in Singapore.
After training as a Flight Engineer (F/E), and then OCTU, and a career as an RAF Hastings/VC10 F/E and later with Cathay Pacific based in Hong Kong flying on B707/L1011/ B747, I retired to Vancouver.
I sill couldn't get Asia out of my lifestyle and now have a Make Malaysia your 2nd Home (MM2H) visa in my passport and often visit Penang and KL from my new home in Bali, Indonesia.

I believe there is a saying that you can take the man out of Asia but not take Asia out of the man. Many other posts on this thread indicate that is a truism.

Or, as General McArthur said, after WW2......"I will return!"

[TT2]

'Or, as General McArthur said, after WW2......"I will return!"

I manage Blighty for about a month before I'm scratching at the walls. I actually like living in the Far East and no, that isn't anything to do with the availability of tarts and cheap grog. However, I avoid foreign enclaves like the plague, seem to be filled with right moaning sods who seem to have left their sense of humour at Thiefrow.

A balmy 36 degrees here beside the sea and there's a gal trying to talk with me about something to do with my computer - gosh, she's lovely. (But married)

Wheels back to the smoke shortly and two of my female troupe have demanded dinner "Or else".

Like the man said, I don't suppose you ever get it out of your blood, but some appear to hate it. I just wander around and bump into things like the locals..............

[Brian 48nav]

Thanks, brilliant!

Memsahib and I have decided we WILL go again! Perhaps next Winter?

[Fareastdriver]

I believe there is a saying that you can take the man out of Asia but not take Asia out of the man

So So true. I have pined for it ever since I retired. Any thoughts of returning have been tramped on by SMBO who has been there several times but hates it.

[Firestreak]

RequestPigeons, I've been accused of many things over the years but.........

SOFTR was a post filled by a local officer, a TUDM Major I'm definitely not!

[Mk 1]

Did a Rifle Company Butterworth tour in '89-'90 (plaque should still be there in the Hong Kong Bar - although I had heard that it had burned down?). Still an Aussie det at RMAF Butterworth - plus a rotating company that was ostensibly for base defence (although ours was designated the last 'operational' tour) - but more now for inter FPDA exercises etc.

Brilliant place to be - outside the airconditioned comfort your pores will get a 24/7 workout pumping litres of sweat - food brilliant, people great also.

[Basil]

Last through Butterworth 31Mar1971 in an Argosy en-route Gan for sun & sub-aqua - oh, yes, we may have had some task or other to get in the way :)
Penang, about 12yrs ago in B747 - quite a dive after clearing the Malay high ground :ooh:

We didn't have a/c in Changi in those days :\

Brian 48nav, you might enjoy this

1960?s aircraft photo archive
Wot? No Wheelbarrow?

[Barksdale Boy]

Happy memories of arriving at Butterworth on detachment in June '68. As we staged out, our plotter had remarked modestly at each night stop and in the vicinity of various diversion airfields, "was posted here, was station nav there, etc, etc". Arriving in the overhead at Butterworth and preparing to turn downwind, our captain enquired "I suppose you've been here as well Jim?" "Well not actually. We had a look but decided not to land - the place was swarming withn Japanese." RIP Jim.

[esa-aardvark]

Hello, not air force or military, a somewhat higher (or lower) calling.
I go to Penang every year for a week or two or more, but never thought
of 2nd hand book shops. Leaving NZ for Asia in 5 weeks time. Where are they ?
Kind regards to all, John
ps my father was Air Force, India, Burma.........

[TT2]

Chulia Street. Where all the cheap places to stay are. Compared to Bangkok with it's lack of bookshops, it is refreshing. Lots of good grub to be found down there.

Have fun!

[lauriebe]

E-A, from your post, not sure what books you are looking for. There are quite a few places in Chulia St, for example, that have lots of second-hand paperbacks. Most of those places operate a straight swap system if that's what you are looking for.

However, at the back of the Chowrasta Market, on the first floor, is a place that has a very large selection of old books and magazines. Huge piles in the alleyways and on the shelves covering pretty much all subjects from reference to fiction.

If you need more info, please PM me.

[esa-aardvark]

By co-incidence we will be staying in the Chulia Heritage hotel.
Probably looking for historic Aviation/Military or Aerospace
related, or pot boilers to read on our travels. I do know Chowrastra quite well,
if we stay long enough to have an apartment we go meat shopping there. Never thought
of looking for books.
John

[TBM-Legend]

....ah memories of the SADC [Sunday afternoon drinking club] on the back verandah of the O/Mess at 10c [Au] per handle...:ok:

[TT2]

Last time I was in Chulia Street, I ended up drinking with a bunch of Eire lads. 4am, I realised my aeroplane thing was supposed to blast off....at 6.
Somehow got onboard and from the moment of sitting down to the doors opening at Swampy, had a jolly good sleep.

Must have been an autoland........never felt a thing.:p

[Badger3434]

What a lovely thread! We lived in Alor Star '58 & '59, my Dad was in SMIS there. Had lots of excitement with Auster pilots dropping the latest NAAFI supplies (mainly Craven A, I seem to remember) over our house in Tanah Mera (sp?). I once had a tour of an Aussie C130 at Butterworth and, as a young lad, was just amazed at the size of the thing.

Ah, and the Runnymead..... Sheer bliss as we tore up and down the corridors while the parents were downstairs for dinner. And what was the name of the swimming club up the road? Tanglin?

Very happy days.

[lauriebe]

Badger, unfortunately, the Runnymede is now in a very sorry state. It had been in use by the Malaysian army but was vacated some years ago and the buildings are now slowly decaying. There was a plan to renovate it as a hotel again but that does not seem to have happened.

See this link:

Penang Heritage Trust (http://www.pht.org.my/?page_id=757#a7)

There were/are two swimming clubs along the north coast; first, the Chinese Swimming Club at Tanjung Tokong. The second is the Penang Swimming Club at Tanjung Bungah. Both are still active.

[SRENNAPS]

There were/are two swimming clubs along the north coast; first, the Chinese Swimming Club at Tanjung Tokong. The second is the Penang Swimming Club at Tanjung Bungah. Both are still active.

The Chinese Swimming Club was exactly as I remembered all of those years ago and I am pretty sure we called The Penang Swimming Club, The Australian Swimming Pool......very different now to how I remember it.

[Lonewolf_50]

RAAF Butterworth:

I was involved in a fly past for the Malaysian Sultan's Jubilee in summer of 1990. The folks at Butterworth were great to us. We shore based off of our cruiser to practice with the Brits, Japanese, Indons, Kiwis, Malaysians, and a host of others in a sixteen plane aerial "pass in review" in mixed formation.

I recall Malaysian Wasps leading the way with vertical cables, weighted, adorned with flags, followed by a collectoin made up of .. a jaunty Alouette (French), Huey (Italian), Lynx (Brit), Sea King (Japanese), BO105 (Indonesian), Kiwi Wasp, our Seahawk, and a few others.

The Russians were in town, and had a Helix on the back of a Udaloy destroyer, but their political masters forbade them from participating in the fly past. (I was very bummed, wanted to meet and compare notes with Flying Ivan now that the wall was down. ) We weren't allowed to talk to them, as our Pres and theirs were bickering over Lithuaina that week ... that's another story for another time).

Penang: that was good liberty, and as above, the folks at RAAF Butterworth were most excellent hosts. :ok: Goodonya, Aussies.

[Wwyvern]

Badger,

We had married quarter 1003, third from the end, at Tanah Merah from 1965 to 68. It was an old style bungalow, no air conditioning. Some purpose built new style OMQs were put up in the patch, and they had air conditioning. I preferred our style with its very large rooms and amahs' quarters out back.

The family returned on holiday in the late 1990s. Our old quarter was then used as a kindergarten.

I went back in 2010. There are no married quarters at Tanah Merah now, only a massive army barracks. The present OMQs are directly opposite the RMAF College gates. Junior officers have apartments and seniors have houses of increasing size from major upwards. The old areas within the base were recognisable, but it has expanded very much, providing flying training on elementary aeroplanes and on helicopters.

Went to have a drink at the Kedah Club, which used to be wooden-built. It is now a massive marble-like structure. I remember down-town Alor Star as a pretty run-down but friendly place. It's now a much more of a city, all dual carriageways and modern buildings.

Good to see it has prospered.

[Badger3434]

Wwyvern,

[apologies for boring everyone else] We lived in the second to last house, a T-shaped bungalow that still shows on Google Earth. Yes, the amahs' quarters were out the back, together with their own kitchen that just had a charcoal-fired cooker whereas 'we' had electric. The little Education Corps school was at the opposite end of the camp, with just 8 pupils. The teach was a Mrs. Alcock.

Was the Kedah Club what we used to know as 'the Rest House' near Alor Star airfield? They had fab curry lunches every Thursday.

[Wwyvern]

Badger,

Check PMs

Ww

[RequestPidgeons]

Firestreak
RequestPigeons, I've been accused ofmany things over the years but.........
SOFTR was a postfilled by a local officer, a TUDM Major I'm definitely not!


No offence meant. :\ You must have been after Russ then? SOFTR was always a UK WgCdr, IIRC. I departed there in 1991.

[Handbrake]

Anyone attending the RAAF school (now the university) from 68' onwards come across teachers such as Mr BUckley, Mr Mathews, Mr Slockwitch, Mr Granland many more names??? Very nostalgic.