Brit joining the Pakistan Air Force

[WillingPilot]

Hello,

I'm 18 and I'm British. I was born in the United Kingdom, and that's how I'm British.

I'm thinking of joining the Pakistan Air Force as a Pilot. However, in order to join I'd need to abandon my British Citizenship - which will be a massive decision to make. (If it is made.)

I'm thinking of coming back to the United Kingdom, once I've done my years in serving at the Pakistan Air Force.

I have a question, would I be able to resume my British Nationality/Citizenship later on in life?

Moderators: If this post is in an incorrect category, feel free to move it. :ok:

[Pontius Navigator]

WP, it is the wrong forum. Ask UK Border Agency.

FWIW, I would think that as a non-British national, even though born in UK and previously British, you would be in the same boat as every other would be immigrant.

Opportunities might open up especially if you wee a professional with skills needed in the UK.

Any chance of taking RA with you?

[WillingPilot]

Nothing wrong with Royal Air Force at all. It seems tough to get in to that's all, with all these spending cuts being bought on to us by Cameron. Recent news doesn't look good either.

My Great Grandfather was a Submarine Commander in the British Navy.

I'm hoping to go to University to study Maths and Computer Science. What is 'RA'?

[Trim Stab]

However, in order to join I'd need to abandon my British Citizenship - which will be a massive decision to make.


It is not possible to "abandon" British citizenship. You can surrender your British passport (which may be what the Pakistan authorities require you to do) but you can't stop being British...

Should you wish to apply for another British passport later in life, you will be treated exactly the same as any other Brit who has not held a passport for several years. You will just need to provide relevant documents to prove British citizenship, and then you will be issued with a new passport.

I have four passports from four different countries - all legitimate. Sometimes I let my UK passport lapse if one of the others is current and more relevant to my current state of residence. If I subsequently need to renew my UK passport, it is very easy to do so - just send in a photocopy of the old one, up to date witnessed photos and a cheque.

As far as I know, the only developed country that allows its citizens to formally renounce citizenship through a legal process is the USA. Some US citizens choose to do so in order to avoid paying US taxes, which are levied on all US citizens wherever they may be resident.

[Pontius Navigator]

TS, no problem wiht establishing 'right of abode' then?

[Trim Stab]

TS, no problem wiht establishing 'right of abode' then?


No, not at the moment anyway..

[Capetonian]

It may be possible to renounce British Citizenship if, inter alia, "of sound mind (but if you are not of sound mind, you may still be allowed to give up your British citizenship or other British nationality if it would be in your best interests)."

UK Border Agency | How do I give up British citizenship or another form of British nationality? (http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/britishcitizenship/givingupcitizenship/)

[SRENNAPS]

WP,

If your decision is going to be based on the fact that you want to fly military jets and you feel you have a real chance in the Pakistani Air Force and little chance in the Royal Air Force, then go for it my boy! You only live once. You can sort the rest of your life out later.

Also, you will probably get the opportunity to fly a greater selection of aircraft and not bound by the OTT Health and Safety rules that now exist in the UK; so you will probably have a lot of fun.

I wish you all the best mate.

[L J R]

If I could offer a snippet of advice though - look at Pakistan's Flight safety record first. Make sure you are fully informed.

[Load Toad]

Why anyone would give up membership to the best club in the world is quite beyond me.
But best of luck with the flying.

[Pontius Navigator]

Why anyone would give up membership to the best club in the world is quite beyond me.
But best of luck with the flying.

That is questionable what with 3000 pilots and 450 combat aircraft from China, France and USA.

[Load Toad]

I meant being British & having the passport.

[glad rag]

with all these spending cuts being bought on to us by Cameron

see ya.

[denlopviper]

getting in the Pakistan Air Force isnt easy, for one making through the initial selection will be a major challenge for you with them knowing you have given up your previous citizenship. remember there is a serious tussle going on with the west and Pakistan right now. they might reject you purely on the basis of having to avoid the addition background and security clearances. after all there are thousands that apply, so PAF is never short of applicants.

out of the thousands, around 100 make it to the academy. nearly half of which get washed out in the first year at the academy alone. less than 15% of the original course graduates from the academy. out of these around 70% make it fast jet training.

its a long shot, but just keep in mind what you have to give up in order to just be eligible to apply.

good luck

[WillingPilot]

SRENNAPS (http://www.pprune.org/members/23567-srennaps)WP,

If your decision is going to be based on the fact that you want to fly military jets and you feel you have a real chance in the Pakistani Air Force and little chance in the Royal Air Force, then go for it my boy! You only live once. You can sort the rest of your life out later.

Also, you will probably get the opportunity to fly a greater selection of aircraft and not bound by the OTT Health and Safety rules that now exist in the UK; so you will probably have a lot of fun.

I wish you all the best mate. Thank you so much. I love this kind of support from my fellow Britmen.

Trim Stab (http://www.pprune.org/members/321642-trim-stab)
It is not possible to "abandon" British citizenship. You can surrender your British passport (which may be what the Pakistan authorities require you to do) but you can't stop being British...

Should you wish to apply for another British passport later in life, you will be treated exactly the same as any other Brit who has not held a passport for several years. You will just need to provide relevant documents to prove British citizenship, and then you will be issued with a new passport.

I have four passports from four different countries - all legitimate. Sometimes I let my UK passport lapse if one of the others is current and more relevant to my current state of residence. If I subsequently need to renew my UK passport, it is very easy to do so - just send in a photocopy of the old one, up to date witnessed photos and a cheque.

As far as I know, the only developed country that allows its citizens to formally renounce citizenship through a legal process is the USA. Some US citizens choose to do so in order to avoid paying US taxes, which are levied on all US citizens wherever they may be resident. Cool. That sounds great. It's not our fault to be honest. I don't know which party will fix this country.

denlopviper (http://www.pprune.org/members/204672-denlopviper)
getting in the Pakistan Air Force isnt easy, for one making through the initial selection will be a major challenge for you with them knowing you have given up your previous citizenship. remember there is a serious tussle going on with the west and Pakistan right now. they might reject you purely on the basis of having to avoid the addition background and security clearances. after all there are thousands that apply, so PAF is never short of applicants.

out of the thousands, around 100 make it to the academy. nearly half of which get washed out in the first year at the academy alone. less than 15% of the original course graduates from the academy. out of these around 70% make it fast jet training.

its a long shot, but just keep in mind what you have to give up in order to just be eligible to apply.

good luck

Thanks, any supportive advice? I think you have to give it up before you join and not apply?

[Pontius Navigator]

I think you have to give it up before you join and not apply?

Why not apply to OASC if you have the necessary educational qualifications - probably similar to what you would need for PAF. You would have the benefit of a medical screening and aptitude tests etc. It would give you a realistic assessment of your chances elsewhere.

[A2QFI]

When I joined a foreign Air Force, admitedly 33 years ago, I was a British Citizen with a UK passport; all I had to do was resign my RAF commission. The thinking behind that was I could not owe allegiance to HM the Queen while serving the ruler of another country. I subsequently returned to UK and rejoined the RAF and was re-appointed to my commission.

[WillingPilot]

Pontius Navigator:
Why not apply to OASC if you have the necessary educational qualifications - probably similar to what you would need for PAF. You would have the benefit of a medical screening and aptitude tests etc. It would give you a realistic assessment of your chances elsewhere.

Problem, is my parents won't me apply. I know I'm 18 but I'd get a boot form the house.

They want me to complete my education first to Degree level.

I'm checking this site out, Speed Distance Time | OASC: RAF Officer and Aircrew Selection Centre (http://www.speeddistancetime.info).

[phil9560]

Problem, is my parents won't me apply. I know I'm 18 but I'd get a boot form the house.

They want me to complete my education first to Degree level.



From the perspective of somebody 20 years older than you thats not bad advice.In three years time more doors will open than will close.However I never listened to my parents either.Wish I had though ....:O

[lj101]

Problem, is my parents won't me apply. I know I'm 18 but I'd get a boot form the house.They want me to complete my education first to Degree level.

WillingPilot

Will your parents allow you to apply for the PAF without completing your education to degree level?

Choices as follows maybe
1. Apply for the RAF as someone else said (as a pilot), go through the selection process and hopefully get a place at Cranwell to go pilot.
2. Tell your parents as diplomatically as possible what you have done and why you have done it and ask for their blessing.


OR
1. Apply to join the PAF and hopefully get a place.
2. Tell your parents you leaving home, leaving the country AND giving up your Citizenship too.................................... :eek:


On balance I think that given the choice, the RAF may be looked upon as a more favourable option (but i realise i dont know your parents and they may have a pathological hatred of the RAF)

Which ever you choose good luck

[Pontius Navigator]

I agree with Phil. You have already been told that entry to the PAF is difficult and we know the RAF is very difficult too. Now one reason for applying to the RAF now is in the hope of joining a UAS at university.

Just persuade your parents that it is a 'free' interview opportunity.

[denlopviper]

personally if i were you, i'd go for the RAF and forget about PAF. you have less to lose and more chance of getting in the RAF.

[WillingPilot]

I'm sure you guys will understand the perspective my parents are coming from.

They think about the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and so on and the involvement our military has had there.

I doubt I can lose my Citizenship, I was born here. This is my Birth country.

What do you guys think?

[phil9560]

We've told you.

[Buster Hyman]

Lets also not forget what's being served at the bar of the PAF Officers Mess!!! Consider all the facts mate! ;)

[WillingPilot]

^ What do you mean mate?

[Manandboy]

That Speed/Distance/Time website is fun!

[farefield]

A lefty,no sense of humour and teetotal. Forget the RAF mate.;)

[denlopviper]

if you think PAF isnt involved in a war, your wrong. the war is all around us, everytime you step off base, your a target because the strike units are bombing the tribal belt on the afghan border.

2nd, you have to give up your citizenship completely, otherwise you arnt eligible at all. remember just giving up the passport wont do. you have to give up being British completely!

the other thing you need to consider is that when you do apply, be prepared to be interrogated, harassed and observed by the the intelligence guys. you will be treated like a spy. even after getting into the service. expect you lines to be tapped and a guy behind you. im not being paranoid. thats how things work here.

trust me, its just not worth the trouble

[WillingPilot]

^ Are you in the forces mate?

[denlopviper]

not myself, but people real close to me

[WillingPilot]

^

I really wanted to join. I guess you've put me off it.

[ATCAdam]

As someone of similar age and aspiration my best piece of advice to you is to go to University, join the University Air Squadron get some flying experience and get a degree at the same time.

You sound like you're quite switched on (Maths+Computing degree) so why not apply for a bursary from the RAF, they will help towards your degree. You'll earn a degree from a British university which is second to none internationally and will have a very strong reputation.

Once you get to University your parent's influence on you reduces and you will be free to do what you want to do and if that's flying and serving your country then they should be proud.

Don't bother with the PAF, in a few years the RAF should be in a better position to recruit and with a degree and University Air Squadron experience behind you, you should be more competitive at OASC.

[WillingPilot]

Hey there,

I am. My parents have been quite strict from day one!

Do you know the requirements for a University Air Squadron?

[WillingPilot]

Seen as though I'm from Birmingham, I've found these pages:

University of Birmingham Air Squadron - How to Join (http://www.raf.mod.uk/birminghamuas/howtojoin/index.cfm)

Quite interesting.

[ATCAdam]

During the fresher's fairs the respective UAS should have a stand set up, if you are thinking of going to university in Birmingham or the surrounding area, then yes UBAS would be your first point of call.

Check University Air Squadrons - Find a squadron (http://www.raf.mod.uk/universityairsquadrons/findasquadron/) for a full list of UASs and University Air Squadrons - Eligibility Criteria (http://www.raf.mod.uk/universityairsquadrons/eligibility.cfm) for eligibility requirements.

Hope this helps :)

[ali1552]

WP,

I am a pilot in PAF. i can guide you about the selection process and training in PAF.

do you have dual british / pakistani nationality? only pakistani nationals are allowed to join pakistani armed forces. and dual nationality holders must surrender their citizenship of countries other than pakistan before they join.

life in PAF as a pilot is good and full of opportunities to fly many different types of aircraft. however, the salary is pathetic. moreover, once you get in, its very hard to get out of the air force.

i'm there to answer any questions that you may have about being a pilot in PAF.

[Robert Cooper]

Why would any Brit in his right mind want to join the PAF? :ugh:

Bob C

[denlopviper]

ali1552,

pathetic salary? for one your getting 40% of your basic as flying allowance.
plus the 50% increase in the basic last year...the pay of a Flt Lt. right is more than what an air commodore was making 3 years ago.

hazard pay for an armament officer clearing the bombing range of duds is 1 pound per month...yeah 123 pakistani rupees per month!!

and you guys are still bitching pay..

and its about time the Air HQ decided to stop handing out releases. it took us a few years to get the air staff to realize what was going on but thank god that they did. it was neither fair to the PAF nor fair to civilian pilots whose slot you guys have been taking for years.

don't get me wrong, i have the utmost respect for air force pilots.


Robert Cooper

maybe because unlike the RAF, we will still have fighters 10 years down the line :E

[fade to grey]

Am I the only one thinking 'WTF' about this thread ?

So WP your parents don't like the idea of you becoming involved in a war ? Don't join the armed forces then, full stop.

Do they think travelling to Pakistan and flying their fast jets is a safe option then ?

reading between the lines would I be right in thinking you have some religious reasons for not wanting to get involved in Afghan. 'This is my birth country'. doesn't sound like you have much allegiance to the queen anyway ?

[Pontius Navigator]

Am I the only one thinking 'WTF' about this thread ?

So WP your parents don't like the idea of you becoming involved in a war ?

It is his parents not Willie Pete.

Joining the RAF is clearly a step too far for them. Maybe he hopes they would approve his joining the PAF.

Do they think travelling to Pakistan and flying their fast jets is a safe option then ?

More likely Willie hopes they will accept joining the PAF.

[The Oberon]

Why would any Brit in his right mind want to join the PAF? :ugh:

Bob C

Well at least they get their Bins taken out!!

[ColinB]

I think I know the real name of Willing Pilot, it may be William Donaldson who gained fame for the Henry Root Letters

[WillingPilot]

4 years later and my parents are happy for me to apply to the RAF, after Uni though!

I think they were misunderstood

[Roger the cabin boy]

Good for you my friend. Hope you've prepped for OASC, the very best of British and all that.

Do consider other branches and aircrew trades too, just in case!

[WillingPilot]

Prepping in progress, need to finish uni. However, I need to get my asthma cleared by my doctor as misdiagnosed first!

I don't even have it.