india DGCA ATPL exam

[LieDetector]

See after they Issue it online it takes about a week(+/- 2-3 days) for them to get the paper work done, then it sent to the dispatch(a 10year old girl with a negative IQ), in some cases some cases licenses were dispatched as late as one month after the hard copy was Issued.

Call up the licensing dept(if someone picks up) or have a friend visit them and see if it has been dispatched if yes get the tracking number for the speed post, they maintain a register with details about sent licenses.

Good luck

[guitarboy]

So, My Application Status says : Allotted!

Now when i click on Book Exam Slot and Enter My roll number to book the slot, it says ALL PAPERS SCHEDULED!

Anybody else with the same?
I haven't Scheduled anything and if the dates are out why haven't they been told to us!

This is Insane!

[matthewgamm]

On PSR & PET numericals, when two-engine TAS and single-engine TAS are both given, what do we use?
Similarly, when "total endurance" and "safe endurance" are both given, what do we use?

Performance: From where are you guys studying the performance portion of the exam?

[flyme01]

you should use the reduced tas for pet for sure becaue pet is always in the case of engine failure and if it is mentioned for psr ya must used the reduced tas.if it says assume engine failure at psr then you must use the reduced tas for homing ground speed..

[Aviator09]

Guitarboy
Its the same with me.Guess they'd come up with a schedule sooner.

[matthewgamm]

Anybody have concrete info on the dates?

[superdunkaroos]

Either the 26th-27th or the 3rd-4th of december, i'm inclining more towards the 3rd.

[flight517]

what about total endurance and safe endurance?? i have always taken the safe endurance, but its confusing:confused:

[matthewgamm]

LMT always changes by a day when crossing:
a. the International Date Line
b. 180 E/W

I thought it was (a); answer marked is (b).

[gAMbl3]

Local Mean Time changes by a day when crossing 180 E/W
reason - depends on the position of the sun w.r.t the meridian.

Standard Time changes by a day when crossing International Date Line
reason - country decides its standard time so that east and west part of that country doesn't have much of a difference in time and in cases like Fiji, New Zealand etc. some part is to east some part is to the west of 180 and the date line is adjusted accordingly. :)

[Uniform.]

I am facing the same problem as guitarboy. :uhoh:
it shows ALL PAPERS SCHEDULED :ugh: i guess by now everyone might have received there roll numbers, anyone facing similar problem??

[gAMbl3]

ALL PAPERS SCHEDULED :ugh: :mad:

[Windsprite]

This is for Maverick03-

Earlier (before 2003) DGCA allowed ATPL to be issued on single engine. So you could do the Day, Night and IR on the Cessna 152 (for example) and apply for an ATPL if you had the requisite flying hours and had passed the exams. Same was the case with SCPL.
Now, the rule is that you can no longer appear for your ATPL flying tests on a single engine type.
Of course, your flying experience does not have to be on a multi engine type. Single engine experience is counted towards experience required for issue of ATPL.
For job related issues, I am not sure but there are some small non scheduled operators who employ pilots with single engine experience.
Happy Landings!!

[dragstar]

My status on the udaan.nic.in page still says documents received and roll no. will be issued once they are verified.

Its strange as people claim that roll no.'s have already been issued.

[powerup]

Guys,
I too got the All Paper scheduled message. But looks like today they have removed the Book exam online option. Did you all get your roll no by email or did you just have to find it out online?

Powerup:ok:

[AviatorVette]

guys any idea when the ATPL exam date would be?

[manoj john]

Guys/gals is there any possibility for dgca atpl exam being scheduled before 10th december2011? If you have any idea please do inform..
THANKXXXXX.

[flyygirl]

dates for ATPL out.
:ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh:

[AspiringAirlineAviator]

Mumbai Juhu Center is Opposite Tiwari/Punjab grill !!!!!!

[matthewgamm]

I don't see the list of venues and timinings on the DGCA site.
Can somebody post a link?

[Uniform.]

well even i was confused but you can see the venue and timing of exam in the ADMITTED LIST

[bangalore]

any idea about the Admit card??? only date venue and roll no is out but not the admit card.... need help... and where do we have to get it signed in mumbai

[SuperflyTNT]

Do we have to get a signature on the printout where our roll name and exam schedule is given or is it not required this time since it is an online exam ?

[duddysingh]

hey guys

My names appears in the ATPL rejected list due to docs not attested, is anything can be done now ??

Please suggest..!!

[bangalore]

nothing regarding admit card is mentioned in the instruction or guideline.... or is it just that we have to get any one of the doc mentioned... please be clear..... MR lie detector

[Uniform.]

guys which book or notes are advisable to read for atpl nav
Please share

[STABLE extrovert]

I appeared for the ATPL Nav attempt this December for the first time. I studied basic CPL level notes for theory and finished all the Q&A's from Oxford.

The paper was pretty much on the same lines. Some of the people also prepared using Keith Williams. The exam also had portions of questions based on definitions on flight planning like MTOW,RTOW, BOW, MLW etc.

All questions are for 1 marks each so you don’t have to spend time on studying detailed numerical on CP, PNR, Time, and altimeter etc.

I hope this helps.

[Uniform.]

hey STABLE extrovert, thanks a lot for the information. :)

Please tell about the meteorology paper too if at all u appeared for that this time

[STABLE extrovert]

I am yet to appear for the MET exam...Just appeared for Nav and Radio Aids in this attempt.

[SuperflyTNT]

Hey,

Met was a decent paper too. The usual 50 questions, 2 marks each. Not too many questions with regard to Indian climatology if memory serves me right. Questions were fair enough. Nothing that anyone could have complained about except for maybe a few. One answer to a question I couldn't find anywhere was the vertical speed change or that required of a windshear in a CAT. Can't recollect the rest now

Like said above, Nav and Radio Aids&Instruments were decent. The only thing I could've complained about was questions on INS & IRS which were asked in the Nav exam which weren't a part of the Nav syllabus. No questions on GPS were asked. About 4 questions on EGPWS and about 4 on AWR and its cosecant beam used in MAP mode. Simple questions on Static block affecting altimeter, ASI, VSI. - What is maneuverability error? - CP and PNR (4 questions) - 2D RNAV (2q') - INS&IRS quite a few - Compass error related (2-3q's) Doppler VOR - Janus Array Doppler. That's how much I can remember for now. Will post again if I can recollect some more.

CPL notes certainly help since they are all 1mark questions. Could refer to oxford and its question bank at the end of each chapter. I found a bunch of questions picked out from oxfords bank. Hope this helps.

[SuperflyTNT]

Any idea when the results might be out ?

[bayblade]

@superflytnt
thanks very helpful indeed. do jot down anymore questions that you might recollect.
when are the orals? soon after the results?

[PEC]

Any idea when the results might be out ?

The Oral list should be up by the First-Second Week of Jan'12 - at best.

[Uniform.]

thanks SuperflyTNT :)

I gave the radio and instru this time and preparing Met and Nav for next attempt.
Radio and Instru was really an average paper, few questions were "copy-paste" from Oxford and GSP.
Questions on DME ( asking radar type and operation freq band), 2-3 more questions on radar
1 que was on calculation of the true altitude ( indicated altitude and isa dev was given)
accuracy of doppler derived position (+ - 1% of dist flown and +- 1deg of drift), 2more questions on doppler
basic gpws alert type (aural, visual or both)
On RA alert when the intruder is not more a threat what are the alerts a pilot get?? the red square is converted to green, it disappears or there was some aural alert give, dont remember :uhoh:

[bayblade]

the syllabus for atpl says 5 subjects i.e g.nav, radio aids & flight instruments, met, regulations and aircrafts and engines.
have the last two subjects been included for the jan/feb attempt?

[bayblade]

so many of you guys appreared for the ATPL exam yet no one cares to clarify on the no. of subjects! :hmm:

[Uniform.]

@bayblade
for ATPL(G) there are 3 subjects
1. Radio aids and Instruments
2. Meteorology
3. General Navigation

[VSGJ]

if we dont appear in atpl oral , does that attempt counts???

[planeboy_777]

yes that attemp is counted .....

[Cactus225]

Hello all,

Went through the entire thread and it just confused me further. Kindly help.

DGCA car specifies 7 subjects for Atpl exams. Tech specific and tech performance included. Is it for real?


Also, which books are you all using for air nav, radio aids and instruments?

Is GSP still considered useful for these subjects for the atpls?

Thanks.

Just help me with the list of subjects again as I find myself utterly confused due to varied opinions here.

Cactus.

[Jet Blast 007]

Hey,
All i wanted to know is how many atpl exams do we have 2 give??
Heard that we hav 2 give only Nav, Radio Aids nd met..
Y nt Air regulations..??
I hav my indian cpl with multi and sittin at home.. So thought y nt make use of the time..

Thanks..

[CaptGalaxy]

Folks, there are only three papers if u have an indian cpl.
The regs paper is only for those converting their license (ATPLCG)
the tech papers are only once you complete ur flying (mandatory 1500 odd hours)
The three papers consist of 4 subjects
Nav, radio and instruments, met.
No Orals for Met as far a what I've read in this forum.
All these have been discussed if you go through the entire thread.

Cheers
P

[ITAviator]

Hello All,

Having gone through the complete thread, I have not got the answer to one basic question.
What is the source of study for all 3 DGCA ATPL papers?
I am going through Oxford books and mostly the question papers in the end.
GSP is good but its kinda late to read them for the coming up Feb attempt i guess.
Anything else? Keith Williams? Are these only question banks? for all subjects in one book or i would have to get 4 books for Met, Nav, Radio and Instruments?
Should these be enough?
If anyone wants to suggest any other book, it would be appreciated if mentioned the source for the same

[Uniform.]

Hello everyone, :)
It would be great if people who have appeared for Nav ATPL paper could shed some light on types of question asked in NAV ATPL paper,
mainly under the Mass and Balance section, type of numerical asked on M&B, calculation of CG
Also performance based questions.
Not exactly but just a rough idea :rolleyes:

[STABLE extrovert]

@Uniform

I appeared for the December 2011 Nav Atpl Exam. The exam was pretty simple. 90 questions of one mark each was the pattern.

The navigation questions were simple and numericals were mainly on CP/PNR, relative velocity, covergency, departure, compass errors, scale, 1 in 60 rule, etc.

With regards to performance, there were no questions on CG calculation or graph based question. A lot of questions on definitions of BOM, Traffic Load, ZFM, MLW, basic V speeds definitions. Basic numerical on Payload were also asked.

I don’t recall any questions on TODA, TODR, ASDA etc.

Get hold of any good JAR question bank and you should be fine.

I cannot give you a trend of the ATPL exam as it was my first attempt. May be some other topics could be given more emphasis by DGCA in the next attempt.

Keep well.

[Uniform.]

Hey thanks a lot buddy :) appreciate that
I'll be appearing for the first time.

As you said "definitions of BOM, Traffic Load, ZFM, MLW, basic V speeds" so i can take it as NO calculation on the same as such..! am i right? because exactly those topic numerical are bothering me :uhoh:

[STABLE extrovert]

@Uniform

I remember this question from the exam:

Given:
Dry operating mass (DOM) = 33510 kg
Load = 7600 kg
Final reserve fuel = 983 kg
Alternate fuel = 1100 kg
Contingency fuel = 102 kg

The estimated landing mass at alternate should be:42195 kg

This one is simple.:) None of the detailed numericals on the above topics were asked.

[manoj john]

I have a doubt, what is the accuracy associated with dme?, now some book says its +/-.2nm, some says it is 1.25% of range, some says 3% of range or .5nm, whichever is greater....i would like to get a answer wrt to dgca syllabus...thanks

[Uniform.]

:ooh:
could you please let me know if there is any book or refrence material with such questions ? for practice. GSP doesnt have this topic, Oxford M&B level is way to high, i mean that much is really not required for dgca.

I have Buti Nav question bank but it hardly has 10-15 numerical on this topic.

[keith williams]

I have a doubt, what is the accuracy associated with dme?, now some book says its +/-.2nm, some says it is 1.25% of range, some says 3% of range or .5nm, whichever is greater....i would like to get a answer wrt to dgca syllabus...thanks


The JAA/EASA question bank answers for this type of question are based on the ICAO DME accuracy requirement of 0.25 nm plus 1.25% of range.

The DGCA use the JAA/EASA questions, so it is reasonable to assume that they are using the same accuracy requirement.

[STABLE extrovert]

@Uniform

Keith Williams is a good reference.

[Uniform.]

Lord..!!! :uhoh:
i need to get the M&B and Aircraft Performance now. I just had the General Nav.
Anyways thanks again STABLE extrovert :)

[manoj john]

thnk u keith williams

[manoj john]

a quick question to keith williams, in the keith williams instrument question bank, ASI1, barber`s pole indicate temperature and VMO . and in airspeed 20, red and white hatched pointer indicates VMO VERSUS ALTITUDE and not VMO VERSUS TEMPERATURE.

[keith williams]

Question ASI 1 asks what is indicated by the “Barbers’ Pole”. The first three options (MMO, Vne and TAS) are all incorrect. The fourth option “temperature and VMO” is partly correct, in that the Barbers’ Pole does indicate VMO. So this is the best option in this question.

Question AIRSPEEDS 20 also asks what the Barbers’ Pole indicates. In this question the first two options relate to the autothrottle, so they are incorrect. The third and fourth options are “Maximum speed in VMO operation versus altitude” and “Maximum speed in VMO operation versus temperature”.

To select the best option we need to consider how the Barbers’ pole will respond as an aircraft climbs to altitude.

Between ground level and the altitude at which VMO is equal to MMO, the air temperature will decrease, causing the TAS and CAS values of MMO to decrease. But at these low altitudes MMO is considerably greater than VMO, so the reducing temperature will have no immediate effect on the Barbers’ Pole indication. But increasing altitude will also cause the air pressure and air density to decrease. This will increase the value of CAS at any given EAS. The pressure loads acting on the aircraft are determined by EAS, so the CAS value of VMO will increase slightly. This increase will be very small so the movement of the Barbers’ pole may be negligible. So overall, in this part of the climb altitude will increase, temperature will decrease, but there will be no significant movement of the Barbers’ Pole.

As the climb continues above the altitude at which VMO is equal to MMO, the decreasing temperature will cause the TAS value of MMO to decrease. The reducing air pressure and density will also cause the CAS at any given TAS to decrease. The overall effect will be that the Barbers’ Pole indication will decrease. So overall in this part of the climb altitude will increase, temperature will decrease and the Barbers’ pole indication will decrease.

As the aircraft climbs above the tropopause the temperature will remain constant. This will cause the TAS value of MMO to remain constant. But the reducing air pressure and density will cause the CAS at any given TAS to decrease. So the Barbers’ Pole indication will continue to decrease. So overall in this part of the climb the temperature will be constant, while the altitude increases and the Barbers’ Pole indication decreases.

The above discussion shows that movement of the Barbers’ Pole is related to temperature only at altitudes between that at which VMO = MMO and the tropopause. But the relationship between altitude and the position of the Barbers’ Pole is evident over a much wider altitude range.

[manoj john]

k thnk u keith williams

[airbuscopilot]

Dates are out for Jan'12

3rd March NAV
5th March Radio Aids & Instr.

[Cactus225]

Hey all,

Trying to find some good study material for Air regs.

Is R K Bali is still the best book to go read?

If yes- which edition would you recommend 2010 or 2012?
cause often the older editions are more useful but the 2012 edition might be more thorough.

Please advise.

Any other book you guys are studying for Air Regs?


Kindly reply ASAP.. help is always appreciated.


Regards,

Cactus

[acousticlag]

Please expain me the answer to this question. I'll be really thankful. :)

Because the VSI measures the rate of change of static pressure and not actual values of static pressure, position error :

a) never affects VSI indications.
b) only causes errors in the VSI during take-off.
c) causes errors in the VSI indications whenever airspeed is changed, if at the same time there is a change in position error.
d) causes errors in VSI indications whenever airspeed is changed, even if there is no change in position error.

According to book (b) is correct. But i think (d) should be the correct option. I know the error is most noticeable during the take-off phase but error should also occur everytime the airspeed is changed. Not just during the take-off phase.

[gAMbl3]

VSI consists of i) capsule which is directly connected to the static port and ii) case which is fed with delayed static pressure caused by the metering unit.

Referring to option D)

As VSI measures rate of change of static pressure, if the airspeed is changed and it causes a change in static pressure, the same 'changed' pressure will be fed to the case and the capsule so there will be NO DIFFERENTIAL PRESSURE to cause an error in indication.

When the aircraft is close to the ground, due to ground effect there is slight increase in local static pressure which causes errors during take off and landing.

So B) is the best option.

:ok:

[bayblade]

@cactus225,
the new version of r.k.bali is the best for regs.

[acousticlag]

@gamble3

The instrument case is fed with delayed static. And the capsule is fed with current static. So if speed is suddenly changed; due to the position error, there should be differences in pressure in the capsule and the instrument case at that very instant. So VSI should indicate a rate of change.?

[livetokill22]

I've been trying to register on the UDDAN website but it says
'some Error has occured while updating the Record.'
how do I get past this?

Thanks!

[bayblade]

hi all, the application for april attempt can be submitted by 23rd of this month.
but when you select atplG as the exam its shows 4 subjects, including regs.
so has regs been added from this time onwards?

[bayblade]

also what is oral (2nd or 3rd) as mentioned in the form, is the first oral free?:uhoh:

[3greens 1inthemirror]

the first oral is indeed free.
the candidates who clear the written get the date for the first oral (on the dgca website). If they don't clear the oral, the 2nd time they have to make another DD for Rs 500/- and same for the 3rd time.

Regs is for ATPLCG. You don't have to appear for it if you have an Indian CPL.

[Sperry CL2]

Hey guys can anyone please tell when is the next exam for ATPL ??
Thanks:ok:

[sbflyingangel]

Hi all

Can anybody tell what all documents one need to send along with the print out of the application for atpl online exam??do we need to attest them all aswell??

The Udaan website says a lot of docs..just want to confirm???

[Uniform.]

a lot??? :ooh: like what???

Its just your CPL copy attested by gazatted officer, DD (original) and the form print out.

[bayblade]

@sbflyingangel,
today was the last day for the documents to reach them. you are late buddy:uhoh:

[bombayhues]

@sbflyingangel: An attested copy of the CPL is the only document required for the ATPL application. Also as per the DGCA notice your documents need to reach the DGCA office within 10 days of you applying online. The last date to apply online was today (23rd Apr). Hope that helps!

[Uniform.]

23rd was the last date for applying online
documents should reach them within 10 days of application online

[smurf84]

bayblade - Before you give out wrong information, please read the instructions carefully.

[sbflyingangel]

Thanku all for the quick reply...appreciate it.
I was able to figure it out on my own though..it just took me a while to get thru DGCA website..:ugh:

@bayblade
i had already applied online...23rd was the last date to apply online.I had doubt regarding the docs to be sent..that is clear now.:ok:

[bayblade]

this is one page dedicated to me!
yes i'm sorry about the info, that is how i perceived it and i relayed it. it was incorrect, my bad :ouch: i was just trying to help. :ouch:
good luck to all who apply!:)

[captaa]

1) An island is observed to be 15° to the left.The aircraft heading is 120°(M), variation 17°(W).The bearing °(T) from the aircraft to the island is:
A 302 B 088 C 122 D 268

2) A Lambert conformal conic chart has a constant of the cone of 0.75.The initial course of a straight line track drawn on this chart from A (40°N 050°W) to B is 043°(T) at A; course at B is 055°(T).What is the longitude of B?
A 36°W B 38°W C 41°W D 34°W

3) On a chart, the distance along a meridian between latitudes 45°N and 46°N is 6 cm. The scale of the chart is approximately:
A 1 : 1 850 000 B 1 : 1 000 000 C 1 : 185 000 D 1 : 18 500 000

4) A ground feature appears 30° to the left of the centre line of the CRT of an airborne weather radar. If the heading of the aircraft is 355° (M) and the magnetic variation is 15° East, the true bearing of the aircraft from the Feature is:
A 310° B 130° C 160° D 220°

5) The constant of cone of a Lambert conformal conic chart is quoted as 0.3955.At what latitude on the chart is earth convergency
correctly represented?
A 66°42' B 68°25' C 21°35' D 23°18'

[3greens 1inthemirror]

1) Hdg = 120 (M)
Island is 15 degrees to left.
Hdg to Island = 105 deg

T V M D C
88 17W 105

Thus, True brg to Island is 88 deg

2) conv = 12 deHdg tg (55-43)
conv = dlong x sin lat
since constant of cone is 0.75 , sin lat = 0.75

Thus, dlong = 12/0.75 = 16 deg
( since course is 043 which means the a/c is moving east)
50 W - 16 = 34 W

3) Scale formula - 6 cm /[ 1 (deg) x 60 (nm) x 185200 cm]
= 1/1 852 000 ~ 1/1 850 000

{1 deg = 60 nm; 1 nm = 1.852 km = 1852 m = 185200 cm}

4) Same as 1) Hdg to ground feature = 355 - 20 = 325 M
Apply CDMVT, True hdg to ground feature = 340 deg
Hdg OF a/c from ground feature = 340 - 180(reciprocal)
= 160 deg

5) contant of cone = sin (lat)
sin (lat) = 0.3955
Thus, lat = 23 deg 18 minutes

[captaa]

thhx a lot buddy............

[captaa]

if anyone has a soft copy of keith williams plzzz pm me i require it urgently......

plzzz

[keith williams]

I have a copy captaa.

And yes, I am Keith Williams.

Why do you feel that you should get my work for free?

[Stick_Rudder]

@captaa

Are you serious ? Maybe you did not understand what keith was trying to say. Everyone pays for their respective internet charges buddy, no big deal there. When you download something which is not available for free (here i am referring to the charges of the product and not the internet charges), you are actually stealing someone's work.
To make it simpler for you, suppose you dedicate a major time of your life writing a book, which was never intended to be sold for free of course. Then comes some :mad: person who purchase the copy of your book, scans it and upload it on the internet. Now the whole world downloads your book from the internet FOR FREE and then when you look at the statistics, you're shocked to see the whole world using your book but total sales of your book is very less comparitively. That's stealing someone's hard work, also known as piracy.
Too difficult to understand ???

[Stick_Rudder]

Oh and by the way here's the link... :ok:

Sterling Book House - Books List (http://www.sterlingbookhouse.com/products.asp?cat=84)

[AviatorVette]

Guys whats the best way to study for DGCA ATPL exams
I am giving Radio aids & Instruments, Meteorlogy...


The material I have = Bristol CBT and Keith williams 1000 questions

[captaa]

@ keith williams

I apologize for my words i will definitely buy the book and read it ......

[captaa]

1) r/l track btw a(45n 10w) and b(48'30n 15w) is

a)345 b) 315 c) 330 d) 300

2) a(55n 00) b (54n 10e). Avg true course of g/c is 100 deg. True crs of r/l at point a is

a) 100 b) 096 c) 104 d) 107

3) an a/c travels a g/c track from 56n 70w to 62n 110e. Total dist travelled is

a) 5420nm b) 1788nm c)2040nm d)3720nm

4)psn a is located on equtor at long. 130e psn b is located 100nm from a on a bearing of 225 deg (t). The co-ordinates of b are
:ugh:
a) 01'11's 131'11'e b) 01'11'n 128'49'e c) 01'11's 128'49'e d) 01'11'n 131'11'e

5) g/c dist. Btw psn a (59'34.1'n 008'08.4'e) and b (30'25.9'n 171'051.6'w)
is

a) 10800nm b) 5400nm c) 10800km d) 2700nm

[gAMbl3]

1) r/l track btw a(45n 10w) and b(48'30n 15w) is

http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/4523/rl1jh.jpg


RL track from A to B is 270 + x deg

In triangle AOB

departure dist AO = d long in min x cos 45 = 5 x 60 x cos 45 = 212 nm.

great circle dist BO = (48.5 - 45) x 60 = 210 nm

tan x = BO/AO = 210/212

x = tan inv 210/212 = 44.7 deg

RL track = 270 + 44.7 = 314.7 deg

[gAMbl3]

2) a(55n 00) b (54n 10e). Avg true course of g/c is 100 deg. True crs of r/l at point a is


Average great circle course = R/L course

True course of R/L at A = 100

[gAMbl3]

3) an a/c travels a g/c track from 56n 70w to 62n 110e. Total dist travelled is

70 W and 110 E are meridian - anti meridian

A/c will fly from 56 N to 62 N via North pole

Gc dist from 56 N to north pole = (90 - 56) x 60 = 2040 nm

Gc dist from north pole to 62 N = (90 - 62) x 60 = 1680 nm

Total dist = 2040 + 1680 = 3720 nm

[aer_bourne]

Just to clarify with gambl3, isn't the formula

Departure= Dlong in minutes X cos lat?

[gAMbl3]

4)psn a is located on equtor at long. 130e psn b is located 100nm from a on a bearing of 225 deg (t). The co-ordinates of b are


http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/538/84384241.jpg


x = 225 - 180 = 45 deg

In triangle AOB

x = 45 deg

AO = OB (45 45 90 triangle)

dist AB = 100 nm

dist AO = dist OB AB Cos x = 100 x cos 45 = 70.7 nm

GC dist AO = 70.7 nm = d lat x 60

d lat = 70.7/60 = 1 deg 11 min

Latitude of B = 1 deg 11 min South.


departure dist OB = 70.7 nm = d long x 60 x cos lat

70.7 = d long x 60 x cos 1 deg 11 min = d long x 59.98

d long = 70.7/59.98 = 1 deg 10 min

Longitude of B = 130 E - 1 deg 10 min = 128 deg 49 min East.

Co ordinates of B (1*11' S 128*49' E)

[gAMbl3]

5) g/c dist. Btw psn a (59'34.1'n 008'08.4'e) and b (30'25.9'n 171'051.6'w)
is

008 deg 08 min 24 sec and 171 deg 51 min 36 sec are meridian - antimeridian

A/c will fly from A to B via North pole

59 deg 34 min 06 sec + 30 deg 25 min 54 sec = 90 deg

dist = 90 x 60 = 5400 nm

[captaa]

@ gAMbl3
thx buddy for your explanation and help

do u have answers for Instrument Oxford book ? i have the book but no answers

[captaa]

Q1
Assume a North polar stereographic chart whose grid is aligned with the Greenwich meridian.An aircraft flies from the geographic North pole for a
distance of 480 NM along the 110°E meridian, then follows a grid
track of 154° for a distance of 300 NM. Its position is now approximately:
A) 70°15'N 080°E B) 80°00'N 080°E C) 78°45'N 087°E D) 79°15'N 074°E

Q2(Just wanted to check answer for this one mine is D)
What is the chart distance between longitudes 179°E and 175°W on a direct Mercator chart with a scale of 1:5 000 000 at the equator?
A) 106 mm B) 167 mm C) 72 mm D) 133 mm

[aditya104]

Q1
Assume a North polar stereographic chart whose grid is aligned with the Greenwich meridian.An aircraft flies from the geographic North pole for a
distance of 480 NM along the 110°E meridian, then follows a grid
track of 154° for a distance of 300 NM. Its position is now approximately:
A) 70°15'N 080°E B) 80°00'N 080°E C) 78°45'N 087°E D) 79°15'N 074°E

Flying for 480NM from North Pole(N) along 110°E, aircraft reaches A.
Departure along meridian=dLat° x 60
dLat°=Departure/60=480/60=8°
So, A's position is 82°N 110°E.

From A, aircraft flies a grid track of 154° which is is respect to the grid datum i.e. Greenwich meridian.
True track=360-angle NAR
RAY=26° (180°-154°)
NAY=70°
NAR=RAY+NAY=96°
So, True track from A = 264°
This track is predominantly westerly with a slight southward tilt.

Using departure formula, Departure=300NM. Find dLong?
dLong=Departure/cos (Mean Lat)

A:Mean Lat=76°N, New point is at 89°E.
B:Mean Lat=81°N, New point is at 78°E.
C:Mean Lat=80°N, New point is at 81°E.
D:Mean Lat=81°N, New point is at 78°E.


http://i.imgur.com/hNb1D.png

So, the closest I can get is to B) 80°00'N 080°E. There must be a better way of doing it, I hope.

The same question was also discussed in another forum (http://www.atpforum.eu/showthread.php?t=7130). And they found out (http://www.atpforum.eu/showpost.php?p=27207&postcount=2) that it is not a calculation question, it is more of plotting question which requires accurate map plotting.

[aditya104]

Q2(Just wanted to check answer for this one mine is D)
What is the chart distance between longitudes 179°E and 175°W on a direct Mercator chart with a scale of 1:5 000 000 at the equator?
A) 106 mm B) 167 mm C) 72 mm D) 133 mm

Earth distance at equator between A(179°E) and B(175°W)
dLong = 6°E = 6 x 60' = 360'
Departure at equator = dLong in mins = 360NM

Now, scale is 1:5 000 000 at the equator. i.e. 1mm on chart at equator equates to 5 000 000 mm on real earth.
So, we need to find out how many mm on chart is 360NM.
1/5,000,000 = cd/360x1852x1000
cd= 360x1852x1000/5,000,000 = 36x1852/500 = 9x1852/125 = 133mm

Same question solved for 30°N; Unrequired; For practice calculations
Earth distance at 30°N between A(179°E) and B(175°W)
Departure=dLong x cos (Lat) = 360 x cos30 = 311.77NM
Scale at Latitude= Scale at Equator x Secant(Lat)
cd/311.77x1852x1000=1/5,000,000 x cos30
cd=311.77x1852x1000/5,000,000xcos30=577398/4330.1=133.3mm

[aditya104]

1) r/l track btw a(45n 10w) and b(48'30n 15w) is

http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/4523/rl1jh.jpg
RL track from A to B is 270 + x deg

In triangle AOB

departure dist AO = d long in min x cos 45 = 5 x 60 x cos 45 = 212 nm.

great circle dist BO = (48.5 - 45) x 60 = 210 nm

tan x = BO/AO = 210/212

x = tan inv 210/212 = 44.7 deg

RL track = 270 + 44.7 = 314.7 deg

The reason AB is not a Great Circle is that in a Mercator graticule such as this, a great circle is more often a curve projected concave to the equator.

To find GC track between these two:
Conversion Angle= dLong x Sin (Mean Lat)/2 = 5 x 60 x Sin(46°45')/2 = 109°15'
In the N.H., westerly track, GC>RL. So, GC track at A= 314.7 + 109.25= 64°.

Please correct if I am wrong.

[gAMbl3]

Conversion angle = (d long x sin mean lat)/2 = (5 x sin 46.75)/2 = 1.82 deg

GC Track = 314.7 + 1.8 = 316.5

[aditya104]

Thanks gAMbl3 for restoring the order. What about post 345 (http://www.pprune.org/south-asia-far-east/448692-india-dgca-atpl-exam-18.html#post7164204).

[gAMbl3]

Post 345 is plotting problem. You need a 'Geometry box' for solving it.

Referring to you diagram :

480 nm on 110E = 8 deg

So A is at 82N 110E

Keep one end of the divider on the North pole and the other at point A. Measure that distance on the scale which is say X cm.

If X cm = 480 nm then find how much it will be for 300 nm say Y cm.

Now keep the divider along 154(AR) such that one end is on point A. The other end which is Y cm from A will be the a/c position say point B. (300 nm along grid track 154)

Join B and N (north pole)

Measure that distance in cm with the divider and find how many nm it is say Z nm. 90 - Z/60 = Latitude of new postion.

Keep the protractor at N and measure angle PNB and subtract that value from 110E and that will be the Longitude of the new position.

[pilotbaba]

Similar Question to your resply & explanation in post #341

Psn A 000 N/S 100 E
Psn B True Track 240, 200 Nm
Co-ordinates of B

Even though this question & the one on post # 341; both are more of an elimination questions, still would like to know the tehory behind these.

Thanks in Advance,

[buddyaviator]

Does Anybody has any Idea about the Dates for the ATPL Exams in May (April Attempt ) ???

[pilotbaba]

At 0020 UTC an aircraft is crossing the 310 radial at 40 DME.
At 0035 UTC the a/c crosses radial 040 at 40 DME.
Variation Zero, Find True track & Groundspeed

A) 085 - 226 kts B) 090 - 232 kts C) 080 - 226 kts D) 088 – 232 kts

[aditya104]

http://i.imgur.com/fXkla.png
In the above figure ∠BAO=60°
Therefore in Tringle ABO, ∠ABO=30°
We have drawn a Right Triangle to use trigonometry to solve this problem.
We need to find AO and BO. We will start with AO:
Cos(BAO)=AO/AB
So, AO = AB x Cos(BAO) = 200 x Cos(60) = 200 x 0.5 = 100NM
AO helps us find the latitude of B. B is on the latitude 100NM sth of A.
i.e. 100NM = 1°40'S

Now, BO:
Cos(ABO)=BO/AB
So, BO = AB x Cos(ABO) = 200 x Cos(30) = 200 x 0.866 = 173.2NM
BO helps us find the longitude on which B lies.
Departure= dLong x Cos(Lat)
dLong= Departure/Cos(Lat) = 173.2/Cos(1.67) = 173.2/0.999 = 173.2' = 2°53'
So B lies 2°53'E of A(100°E). i.e. 100°-2°53'= 97°07'E

Co-ords of B are 1°40'S 97°07'E



Psn A 000 N/S 100 E
Psn B True Track 240, 200 Nm
Co-ordinates of B

Even though this question & the one on post # 341; both are more of an elimination questions, still would like to know the tehory behind these.

Thanks in Advance,

Above, I have solved this question. I would be able to tell you the elimination if you provide the options. One noticeable thing is that upto Latitude of 10°N/S, departure is approximately equal to dLong. This is because Cos(10) = 0.98.

[gAMbl3]

At 0020 UTC an aircraft is crossing the 310 radial at 40 DME.
At 0035 UTC the a/c crosses radial 040 at 40 DME.
Variation Zero, Find True track & Groundspeed

A) 085 - 226 kts B) 090 - 232 kts C) 080 - 226 kts D) 088 – 232 kts


http://img835.imageshack.us/img835/8467/dmeprob.jpg


At 0020 a/c is at B and at 0035 reaches A.

Angular difference between radial 310 and 040 = (360-310) + 040 = 90 deg.

In triangle AOB

OB = OA = 40 nm.
angle AOB = 90 deg.

Therefore it is a 45-45-90 triangle.

angle OBA = OAB = 45 deg.

Variation = 0 so true track = magnetic track, QDM = QUJ

From B if you want to go to the station O you will fly heading (QDM) 310-180 = 130.

Track to find (track BA ) = QUJ(QDM) - angle OBA = 130 - 45 = 085.


OB^2 + OA^2 = BA^2

40*40 + 40*40 = BA^2

dist BA = 56.5 nm

time = 0035 - 0020 = 15 min

ground speed = 56.5 nm / 15 min = 226 kts.


Ans A) 085 - 226 kts

[aditya104]

Post 327 (http://www.pprune.org/south-asia-far-east/448692-india-dgca-atpl-exam-17.html#post7160168)2) A Lambert conformal conic chart has a constant of the cone of 0.75.The initial course of a straight line track drawn on this chart from A (40°N 050°W) to B is 043°(T) at A; course at B is 055°(T).What is the longitude of B?
A 36°W B 38°W C 41°W D 34°W

Post 328 (http://www.pprune.org/south-asia-far-east/448692-india-dgca-atpl-exam-17.html#post7160211)2) conv = 12 deHdg tg (55-43)
conv = dlong x sin lat
since constant of cone is 0.75 , sin lat = 0.75

Thus, dlong = 12/0.75 = 16 deg
( since course is 043 which means the a/c is moving east)
50 W - 16 = 34 W

Great Circle usually appears concave to the parallel of origin. Nothing wrong with the answer though. :D
Fig.9.5 Pg 96 GSP Navigation RB Underdown & Tony Palmer

Edit: Found this on another page, so disregard the above. Although great circles in fact appear as curves on the chart, for practical purposes they can be taken to be straight lines. This is because their curvature is slight.

[SaabCapt]

when is the exam?

[bayblade]

we, pprune members are still deliberating over the date. will inform you people shortly!:E

[bayblade]

http://dgca.gov.in/admit/Pilot0412Sch.pdf

[Uniform.]

udan.dgca even started mailing the application status along with roll number,... i got mine few minutes back.. Approved :)

[3greens 1inthemirror]

These days, do we still have to get the stamp and signature from DGCA CEO on the print out of admit card? like earlier times?

[Uniform.]

No. you need to take the print out of the admitted list's page having your name with valid ID proof

[3greens 1inthemirror]

okay, thanks!

[Uniform.]

admitted and rejected lists are out on dgca website..!!!

[flight517]

As a step towards improvement in the online examination system, it has
been decided that henceforth the candidate score (marks obtained) shall be
displayed on the candidates screen at the end of the examination. In order to
achieve this objective, the provision for raising of objection to question(s) has
been removed. The candidates are, therefore, advised to read and make
themselves familiar with the instructions and guidelines for candidates published
on DGCA website.
good news for everyone who is taking the online examinations, such initiatives are always welcome.

[ifly89]

hi ! does any1 know wer 2 purchase 1000 q gen.nav by keith williams in chennai?? exam is nxt week so it will take atleast 5days if i order online :ugh:

[SuperflyTNT]

Has anyone got notes on ETOPS ?

[livetokill22]

What to do if the name is in the rejected candidates list?
How to get it cleared?

[3greens 1inthemirror]

Venue for Delhi is Noida??? can anyone confirm?

[bayblade]

yes noida it is.:ok:

[maniksharma73]

you would still need to pass dgca ATPL exams for conversion and then the usual stuff of flying requirements.

[wxy]

Do we also need to send PHOTOGRAPHS .....????????
With DD and and attested CPL copy.... for ATPL papers.

[bayblade]

just paste the pic on the application page, that's all it calls for.

[wxy]

One is required or two?? I have sent the application without pasting it, I have stapled one photograph though. There was no space. can I do anything now?

[Prince Of Osiris]

Stop giving wrong instructions! NO PHOTOS FOR ATPL papers! :ugh:

I don't think any photographs are required for ATPL exams, just the online application, DD and Attested CPL copy with the page which says Multi Engine Endorsed with the first page should do the trick! :ok:

[bayblade]

Stop giving wrong instructions! NO PHOTOS FOR ATPL papers!

I don't think any photographs are required for ATPL exams, just the online application, DD and Attested CPL copy with the page which says Multi Engine Endorsed with the first page should do the trick!

@price, you got to read the instructions again:hmm:

@wxy, i really have no solution for that. someone here might have the answer your looking for.:)

[Prince Of Osiris]

Apparently I have done that too many times! For ATPL NO Photos required!:ugh:

@wxy Why don't you read the instructions yourself, should solve the problem! :E

[wxy]

I am confused cuz instructions are not clear. and somebody told me its required.
and I got the mail in which it was written

"Now you are required to submit the printout of online application duly signed and latest colour passport size photograph pasted on it to CEO along with all the supporting documents as per instruction published in Para - II, Part - B of "Instruction / Guidelines to the Candidates Applying for Pilots ONLINE Examination" in DGCA web Site."

I hope you are right, its not required. Does't make sense to send photograph anyway, we already have in our license. but its DGCA, you never know.

[Prince Of Osiris]

The photographs are required for Computer Number applications, not for exam applications! You need to train your eye for detail, :E the email is system generated for all applications submitted in Udaan! :ugh::ugh:

PS: I had mine approved without photographs earlier :ooh:!

[bayblade]

told you! :E

wxy, call on the helpline +91 11 26106091 and tell them that you've forgotten to send the pic and follow what they say.

[bayblade]

@prince, it's the pre-requirement for the online exam and not the computer no.
if you got away with it the first time, good for you:ok:

[Prince Of Osiris]

First time.. !:eek: Done that too many times, meaning three here! := You don't seem to read the instructions and guidelines in Section B. :E

For you, so you can guide others better! :E :}

Part – B. Instruction for submission of hard copy of application. (after having submitted
the application ONLINE).
I. Documents required to be submitted by the applicant for obtaining Computer No.
(Pilots)are as follows.
1. Printout of the submitted ONLINE application duly signed with latest coloured Passport
sized Photograph pasted on it. The photograph on the second page under the
“CERTIFICATION BY ATTESTING OFFICER” required to be attested in such a way that
the signature & stamp of the attesting officer covers partly both the photograph & the
page.
2. Date of birth proof – 10
th
Std. Certificate & Mark List, of a recognised Board or its
equivalent or the Birth Certificate issued by a Municipal Corporation / Committee shall be
the documents acceptable as proof of age. The name will be accepted as mentioned in
10
th
& Matriculation certificate.
3. Educational Qualification
a. 10
th
Std. Certificate & Mark List, Matriculation certificate of a recognised Board or
its equivalent for PPL category.
b. 10+2 Standard Mark List & Pass certificate as a proof of having passed 10+2 with
Maths & Physics subjects from a recognised Board/university or its equivalent
examination for CPL / ATPL category. In the case of applicant not having 10+2 with
Maths & Physics and like to use the provision of Rule 47A of Aircraft Rules 1937,
as an evidence for having flown before1
st
Jan 1994, the attested copies (attested
by Gazetted Officer) of first page of his Log Book and the page with Date of First
Flight recorded. In case Basic Qualification has been obtained from Foreign
Country, enclose attested copy of equivalent certificate issued by Association of
Indian Universities (AIU) House, 16, Kotla Marg, New Delhi – 110022. Issue – III, June 2012 Page 6 of 7
4. Copy of Passport & Security Clearance from competent authority of Government of India
in case of foreign national.
All the above documents must be attested by the Gazetted Officers only. Hard copy of
the signed application along with its enclosures must reach CEO within 10 days of
submission of online application.
II. Documents required to be submitted by the applicant for obtaining Roll No.
(Pilots)are as follows.
1. PPL / CPL
Printout of the ONLINE submitted application signed and duly completed in all respect
must reach CEO within 10 days of submission of online application.
2. ATPL
1) Printout of the ONLINE submitted application signed and duly completed in all
respect.
2) Proof of having Indian CPL with Multi Engine endorsement. In the case of Defense
Personnel in lieu of CPL, evidence for having completed 500Hrs flying experience
of which 200 Hrs. should be as Pilot-in-Command.
The documents mentioned at Para above at 2(2) must be attested by the Gazetted
Officers only. Hard copy of the signed application completed in all respects and along with
its enclosures must reach CEO within 10 days of submission of online application.
3. Conversion of Pilots License (CPL/ATPL) issued by Foreign Authority.
1) Printout of the ONLINE submitted application signed and duly completed in all
respect .
2) Copy of Foreign Flight Crew License issued by ICAO Contracting State for the
respective category.
The document mentioned at Para above at 3(2) must be attested by the Gazetted
Officers only. Hard copy of the application along with its enclosures must reach CEO within
10 days of submission of online application.
4. Technical – specific / performance papers with respect to Issue / Extension under
PPL / CPL
Printout of the ONLINE submitted application signed and duly completed in all respect
must reach CEO within 10 days of submission of online application
5. Technical – specific / performance papers with respect to Issue / Extension under
ATPL
1) Printout of the ONLINE submitted application signed and duly completed in all
respect.
2) Proof of having Indian CPL with Multi Engine endorsement. In the case of Defense
Personnel in lieu of CPL, evidence for having completed 500Hrs flying experience
of which 200 Hrs. should be as Pilot-in-Command. Issue – III, June 2012 Page 7 of 7
3) Certificate for having successfully completed the ground training classes on
technical specific / performance on the type aircraft from the DGCA approved
training institute, in case of desired type aircraft is more than 5700Kgs. MTOW /
twin engine Helicopters. It is also required to enclose an evidence to support the
approval status of the training / institute to that effect in accordance with CAR,
Section-7, Series – B, Part –I.
The documents mentioned at Para above at 5(2) & 5(3) must be attested by the
Gazetted Officers only. Hard copy of the application along with its enclosures must reach
CEO within 10 days of submission of online application.

[bayblade]

dear prince, dgca won't dare to hold back your application, you are a prince after all! but for the rest of us mortal souls we got to play by the rules :}

on a serious note, i don't see the point of your lengthy post. all that i can say is that the officials aren't really concerned with the picture requirement (if what you are saying is true.) ;) hope this clears the air.

[Prince Of Osiris]

DGCA never holds anyone's exam application without a reason (even though reasons are silly, they are still valid reasons! :ugh:) They follow rules, other wise they are whipped! :ugh::ugh:

The long post being you can enlighten yourself by reading it. :ok: That clearly mentions the things you need to do to submit exam applications for various exams, should help wxy! :eek:

All I & DGCA are saying "There is no picture requirement in the first place" :ugh:

Misleading people in a already pathetic system is no good, should do due diligence! :=

PS: I thought Prince's are mortal! :E

End of Story! :ok:

[GE90-115B]

Guys has any one got the "Your documents has been received" mail ??

ps. Photos are required only for computer no. application not for exam application.

[pilotbaba]

I have got the "RECIEVED YOUR DOCUMENTS EMAIL" for July Session.....

Any speculation or rumours when the Exams would be for July session....

[GE90-115B]

For some reason I have not received it. I wonder what could be the reason. Tried calling the help line.. No answer. Not Surprised.

[pilotbaba]

1) Did you make the correct amount of demand draft, were the documents attested correctly & by a gazetted officer???

2) Was your documents & paper application delivered??? Check the online delivery tracking from the speed post.......

3) When you have confirmation that your letter was delivered, then wait for a few days & call the DGCA.

4) In the mean time, Log in on UDAAN site & keep tracking status of your application using the temp ID #

If you have done all that, then CALL DGCA...

If nothing works, in the next few days, plan to make a trip to the Mandir of Big GOD.....!!!!!!!! ( read CEO // office of DGCA)

In the mean time keep studying, you may get the roll # a few days before the exam....... Unexpected things do happen at DGCA.....

[PP351]

There is no need to affix your photo on the print out of online application,just confirmed it with CEO today! Its only for the people applying for their comp. no.

[GE90-115B]

Got the documents received mail today. The last time I fedex-ed the documents and I got the mail in 2 days but this time it was Speed Posted and hence the delay.

[pilotbaba]

Any speculation about the dates for July session

[CaptGalaxy]

Hi all,

I'm unable to solve this problem, please do let me know if any of you manage to get the right answer...

Ramp position. 53°21'30''S 02°16'24''
Ins position S53°12.5' W002°36.4'
Time in nav mode 7.5 hrs

I get the answer 2nm/hr but according to the answer key, that's wrong.:{

I'm also curious toknow what other problems are asked from ins/irs
:ouch:
Thanks
P

[keith williams]

Your figures are a mixture of seconds and decimal parts of minutes, so you must take care to convert these to common units. Your figures for longitude are unclear but I have assumed both positions are West.

The N/S error is INS – Ramp = (S53°12.5') – (S53°21'30'') = -9'

This is a N/S error of 9 minutes of latitude so it is equal to a distance of 9 nm.


The E/W error = INS – Ramp = (W002°36.4') – (W002°16'24'') = +20'

This is equal to a distance (20 x Cos mean latitude) nm

Using S53°17' as mean latitude gives an E/W error distance of

20' x Cos 53°17' = 19.9 m.


Now sketch the situation in the form of a right-angled triangle with base = 19.9 nm and vertical side = 9 nm.

The total error is the hypotenuse of this triangle so we have


Error = square root of ( 9 squared + 19.9 squared) = 21.84 nm

Dividing this error by the flight time of 7.5 hours gives an error rate of

21.84 nm / 7.5 hours = 2.9 nm/hour.

[CaptGalaxy]

Hi mate,

I think you got the departure wrong. It's 11.95

You will see that if you use this figure, you will arrive at the answer I stated which is 1.99 something or approx 2.

can you come back on this? Let me know if I'm going wrong somewhere
Cheers
P

[keith williams]

Yes you are right.....finger trouble on the calculator.

[CaptGalaxy]

Answer in the book is 4nm

[keith williams]

I found the same question (or a question with exactly the same data) in an early version of the Oxford General Navigation book. In this case they had 4.7 nm/hour as the correct answer.

Assuming that we have interpreted the data correctly (it is presented in a rather curious format), the correct answer is 2 nm/hour.

[bayblade]

an aircraft is flying from airport A to airport B. both are in southern hemisphere. Chart factor is 0.6 and rhumb line track from A to B is 095(T). Airport A is located on 130E and airport B is located on 170E. which meridian represents the one at which aircraft will be closest to south pole?
anyone?

[estranged soul]

an aircraft is flying from airport A to airport B. both are in southern hemisphere. Chart factor is 0.6 and rhumb line track from A to B is 095(T). Airport A is located on 130E and airport B is located on 170E. which meridian represents the one at which aircraft will be closest to south pole?
anyone?

Jumpin Jimminy!!

Do they actually ask such questions ?? :eek:

[keith williams]

The following is based on the assumption that the aircraft flies a great circle track.

Great circle direction = Rhumb line direction + Conversion Angle

Conversion angle = ½ change in longitude x sin of mean latitude

We do not know the mean latitude, but we know that the chart factor is 0.6. The trick here is to remember that the chart factor is the sine of the mean latitude. So we know that the sine of the mean latitude is 0.6

The change of longitude between A and B is 170E – 130E = 40 degrees.

So we have

So Conversion angle = ½ x 40 degrees x 0.6 = 12 degrees.

The Rhumb Line Track is 095 degrees

Great circle track = Rhumb Line track + conversion angle

So we have

Great circle track at A = 95 + 12 = 107 degrees

And

Great Circle track at B = 95 – 12 = 83 degrees.

So over the change of longitude of 40 degrees we have a change of track of 107 – 83 = 24 degrees. (Which is of course just the convergence)

This means that the track is changing at rate of 24 / 40 = 0.6 degree per degree of longitude. (Which is of course just the chart factor)


All Great circles other than the Equator and the Meridians are convex to the nearest pole. In this case the aircraft is in the southern hemispheres and the track is in a generally easterly direction. As the aircraft progresses along this track it will gradually turn away from the South Pole. It will reach its closest point to the South Pole when its track is 090. From this point onwards it will turn north and its southerly latitude will decrease.

The initial great circle track is 107 so to get to a track of 090 the track must decrease by 107 – 90 = 17 degrees.

The track changes at a rate of 0.6 degrees per degree of longitude change, so a decrease of 17 degrees requires a longitude change of 17 / 0.6 = 28.33 degrees.

Adding this to the initial longitude of 130E give a longitude of 158.33E.

So the aircraft reaches its most southerly position when it is at longitude 158.33E.

[bayblade]

thank you so much. you are awesome! :ok:

[keith williams]

But is it the correct answer? I have not seen this question before.

[bayblade]

yes 158.33 or 158deg20minsE.

[CaptGalaxy]

When accelerating on a westerly heading in the NH, the compass card of a direct reading compass will turn:
a.Clockwise giving an apparent turn towards south
b.Clockwise giving an apparent turn towards north
c.Anticlockwise giving an apparent turn towards south
d.Anticlockwise giving an apparent turn towards north

I opted option b but apparently, its D.
I'm guessing the logic here would be just figure out which direction the compass would turn (ie., accelerate west , northern hemisphere compass appears to turn clockwise and read higher than actual) and then reverse the answer for the compass card. Any inputs?

cheers,
P

[keith williams]

This question is concerned with the effects of acceleration on a direct reading magnetic compass. These effects depend upon the magnetic latitude, the direction of flight and the acceleration rate.

The lines of force produced by the earths magnetic field flow vertically upwards, out of the ground at the magnetic south pole and vertically into the ground at the magnetic north pole. The degree to which they are inclined vertically at all other points on the earth is determined by the magnetic latitude. At the magnetic equator they are horizontal or parallel with the surface. As magnetic latitudes increase towards the magnetic poles the degree of inclination also increases. The inclination of the lines of force causes the magnets in compasses to dip below the horizontal, thereby reducing their accuracy.

In order to minimise this problem, compasses are typically suspended such that their C of G is lower than their pivot. In this way the weight of the magnet is made to oppose the dipping caused by the lines of magnetic force. This is termed pendulous suspension. Although this reduces compass dip, it does not entirely eliminate it. This means that the C of G of the compass magnet will be off-set to one side of the pivot such that the C of G moves away from the nearest pole. This means that the suspension point is between the nearest pole and the C of G of the magnet.

Whenever an aircraft accelerates or decelerates on heading other than due north or due south, the lateral displacement of the C of G and the inertia its compass magnet, causes the magnet to rotate. The magnitude and direction of this rotation is determined by the aircraft heading, the hemisphere and the acceleration or deceleration rate.

This question specifies acceleration on a westerly heading in the northern hemisphere. This will cause the compass magnet to rotate anti-clockwise. The compass magnet is fixed to the compass card, so the compass indication will increase. This will indicate a turn to the north. This answer illustrates the more general result that accelerations cause an apparent turn towards the nearest pole. Decelerations will have the opposite effect, producing an apparent turn away from the nearest pole.

[AVIATROZ]

yes,the answer is D.Because, in the NH when the a/c accelerates it Over reads i.e. it will read more than 270degrees and the compass card moves in anticlockwise direction.So, Anticlockwise and apparent turn towards NORTH make sense.:ok:

[CaptGalaxy]

Thanks folks.

@KW - true, i remember reading this in oxford/gsp.. however, there's no mention of the magnetic card moving in the dir opp to the compass.
ie., if as you say, the compass is fixed to the compass card, doesnt that make my answer correct (b) rather than (d)?

cheers,
P

[keith williams]

The card has the 360 degrees marked on it. This is connected to the compass magnet, such that under steady state conditions the 360/000 mark aligns with magnetic north.

The kind of compass that we are talking about does not have a moving needle. Instead it has a fixed mark that is aligned with the nose of the aircraft.

So if the card moves anticlockwise the indication increases.

In this question the aircraft is heading west so the needle is intially pointing at 270.

When the card rotates anticlockise this increases the degree markings that line up with the needle. In reality the needle and the aircraft nose are still pointing to the west, but the heading indication has increased. So it looks like heading is increasing towards the north.

[Kristoff]

Can anyone shed some light on the FRTOL(r) exam.

[CaptGalaxy]

Thanks i get it now! :D
looks like i had a mind block, when i read your explanation, i was like... oh yeah ofcouse !:E

@Kristoff (http://www.pprune.org/members/380696-kristoff) - This thread is purely for ATPL preps for DGCA,

You can try here :
http://www.pprune.org/south-asia-far-east/457166-rtr-rtr-p-rtr-c-issues.html
http://www.pprune.org/south-asia-far-east/451746-indian-rtr-c-urgent-help.html

cheers,
P

[keith williams]

The link below covers the subject of direct reading magnetic compasses and compass errors.

But take care in using it.....it was written in Australia so it is for the southern hemisphere. The effects are all reversed in the northern hemisphere.


Compasses (http://avfacts.com.au/sample/navinst2a.PDF)The north magnetic pole is situated in Northern Canada, and the south magnetic pole in Victorialand, in Antarctica. Direct Reading Compass. Fig 1. Fig 2. avfacts.com.au/sample/navinst2a.PDF - related (http://search.virginmedia.com/results/?q=related:http://avfacts.com.au/sample/navinst2a.PDF&channel=homepage)

[breakbeat]

Hello,

I have a Indian DGCA CPL License with a Multi Endorsement. I had converted my FAA CPL to an Indian DGCA CPL. I am NOT working with any airline currently.

I would like to appear for the Written Exams held for the ATPL in the Oct 2012 session.

I know this question has been asked before, but I would like to be diligent, and confirm - what are the subjects that I should study, for the ATPL exam?

According to the CAR, Date 16th June, 2011 Syllabus for Examination for Issue of Airline Transport Pilot's License - Aeroplanes, the subjects are -

- Air Navigation
- Aviation Meterology
- Radio Aids and Instruments (Avionics)
- Air Regulation
- Aircraft and Engines - Technical General
- Technical Specific Paper
- Techincal Performance Paper
- Radio Telephony

I understand, that the Technical Specific Paper & Technical Performance Paper are probably specific to the plane that I will gain my 1500 hours of experience on. (Not sure, just guessing)

I not too sure what the deal with the Radio Telephony subject is considering I possess the FRTOL license.

Here's were I have my doubt - Do I have to appear for the Air Regulation subject & Aircraft and Engines - Technical General subject examinations?

If not, Why?

Can anyone provide me with this information, and also back up the information with a DGCA website link if possible? I have tried looking for information on the DGCA website, but my efforts were futile.

Also, Is there a phone number of a person in the DGCA I can talk to regarding this information?

Any answers, you could provide will be really helpful. Again I would like to say that I know this question has been asked before, but as you'll know any information regarding the DGCA is so difficult to obtain, & I would just like to be clear.

Thank You.

breakbeat

[Avfreak]

Hey in case ur interested in some help for the exams for studyin ...get in touch with me...i.e if ur in bombay!
i take classes for ATPL .

[cyrilroy21]

@breakbeat

Since you hold an Indian DGCA license the only ATPL subjects you have to give are

1. Air Navigation
2. Meteorology
3. Radio Aids and Instrumentation

Tech general , Specific and regs you dont have to give because you hold and Indian DGCA license and the syllabus for the ATPL and CPL exams are the same

This document should clear all your doubts

http://dgca.nic.in/forms/crew-d/atpl_aR.pdf

Word of caution ****

For the Subjects Air Nav and Radio Aids you have to give and oral . You have to obtain 70% in both the written and oral exam to be considered as passed .

For eg : If you get 90/90 in the written exam and 6/10 in the oral exam for a total of 96/100 you will be considered failed because you need a min 7/10 in the orals .

Once you pass the written exam you will have 3 attempts at passing the oral exam . If you dont pass in 3 attempts you will have to give the written exam allover again .

After you pass the written exam they will automatically schedule you for the oral exam . If you dont appear for it , then they will count that as a failed attempt and subtract it from the 3 attempts for the oral exam .

From then on you can schedule your oral exam anytime you please . But you will have to pass the oral exam within 24 or 30 months ( not sure ) from the date of passing the written exam . Otherwise you will have to give the written exam again .

[sushantmmehta]

a reply to all those who pm'd me.
If you are in Delhi,for printout at real cheap rates,go to nehru place there is this shop opposite sona sweets,cant remember the name.you will need to search a bit.its a sardar uncles shop.just tell him you need the printouts and bargain a bit:E ,tell him three of my friends have already come and got the prints.he will reduce the rate.in any case it should not be more than .6 to .7 rs per page.dont remember exactly though.just dont forget to bargain.:ok:.comes out pretty cheap!

[power source]

Hi all,
i passed ATPL written + oral exam, i am planing to move out of country for job search. since result card distribution was stopped by DGCA, what document can i carry along as a proof for my ATPL exam result, i believe just result printout will not be enough.
on special request will DGCA give any official letter stating my result?
any other suggestions are appreciated

Thanks

[skyrokr]

Help!
What to study for met(atpl) , kindly upload some qs.


Thanks

[capax_infiniti]

Hi, does anyone have S.K. Buti's question bank on Met for the ATPL exams?
I'd appreciate the help.. thanx.

[AviatorVette]

yeah so im pretty disappointed, I score 66 today in the met exam.. I did oxford met entirely, cpl notes probably 2-3 questions came from the Oxford back questions. The mistake I did was not study from IC joshi, I have ordered the book now. :mad:.. The paper was okay, wasnt easy.. Was definitely a little tricky.

[capax_infiniti]

@AviatorVette
yeah it was definitely a tricky paper. But I would disagree on the Oxford part. I felt that a majority of questions were from the oxford met book. And as for IC Joshi.. there were only 2-3 questions from there. (excluding ones about Indian Climatology. ) In my honest opinion, if I would've studied only IC Joshi and not oxford.. I would've done miserably.

[Sam737]

I am left with air nav atpl paper, appreared in oct 2012. Around 40 questions came from KW and Oxford gen nav collectively. Can anyone tell which book the rest of the questions taken from. Thanks...

[clearblueskyy]

whatsup guys ,

does anyone know the 2013 schedule for dgca papers ?

Also , whats the possibility of the dgca changing the min req from 10+2 to a bachelors degree ? can anyone shed some light on this ?
?

[AFSFA]

Hi , For the Nav ATPL paper what kind of questions are asked in CP/PNR. Are the multi leg / differing winds questions asked ? Takes tool ong for the calculations for these. Also for Weight and balance where can I get some study material.
Regards

[clearblueskyy]

okay so bombays not a centre anymore ??

[vapourlock]

I paid my fees through Netbanking. What proof do i have to submit for the same, do they want my account statement now???

[josh121.5]

@vapourlock : i called up DGCA regarding the same query and this is what they said "no proof is needed for online payment , infact you will be able to print the form only after the online payment is approved , hence its not necessary to send any proof " :ok:

[clearblueskyy]

links to "learning payload" better are welcome, also if you recommend any books where the concept is well explained would be appreciated.

I have keith williams 1000 q&a and cant seem to find the topic anywhere. same applies for the oxford books. Strange!! , or am I missing something ?!?

cheers !

[keith williams]

The word "Payload" does not appear very much in JAR/EASA exams. But the "Traffic Load" includes payload plus non-revenue loads.

In my 1000 QA&E For Mass & Balance book all of the various load definitions are provided in pages 6 and 7. You will also find 103 questions of Traffic Loads in pages 162 to 193.

[cyrilroy21]

@clearbluskyy and @Keith williams

Even if you refer the DGCA CPL or ATPL syllabus you wont find something called PAY LOAD

ATPL
http://www.dgca.nic.in/cars/d7b-b6.pdf

CPL
http://www.dgca.nic.in/cars/D7B-B4.pdf

PAY LOAD is very popularly used in India by the ground instructors to refer to MASS and BALANCE topics .

Before the DGCA implemented the JAA / EASA syllabus the only topic that used to appear for the CPL/ATPL exams from MASS and BALANCE was PAYLOAD or other wise known as TRAFFIC LOAD

Since the DGCA adopted the EASA syllabus it was changed to TRAFFIC LOAD and they started including the other topic in MASS and BALANCE as well .

[matthewgamm]

Could somebody recommend a book for the current Air Regulations exam?

[cyrilroy21]

Well the popular options include RK Bali and another one by V Krishnan published by Himalayan Books
Both are available at the English Book store

The RK Bali book was last updated in 2012 . I am not sure if there is a 2013 edition .

Dont forget that the syllabus includes Human Performance and Operational procedures as well .
Syllabus is given in my above post
More or less the same as an EASA / JAA syllabus . Questions too are copied from either the RK bali book or the JAA question bank


P.S You dont need to give the ATPL Regs exam if you already hold an Indian DGCA CPL since the syllabus is the same for both .

[pilotbaba]

@cyril.

Any guess or speculation the dates for Jan 2013 Session. NO word on the DGCA site yet & DGCA has a NOT TO PICK UP PHONE policy.....

[clearblueskyy]

Thankyou so much @cyrilroy @keith williams.

@pilotbaba - true no word on the website yet, could it be further pushed into the 3rd/4th week maybe ?!

[cyrilroy21]

The dates have been announced

http://www.dgca.gov.in/admit/Schedule%20of%20Pilots%20ONLINE%20Examination%20Jan%202013%2 0Session.pdf

[matthewgamm]

Well the popular options include RK Bali and another one by V Krishnan published by Himalayan Books
Both are available at the English Book store

The RK Bali book was last updated in 2012 . I am not sure if there is a 2013 edition .

Dont forget that the syllabus includes Human Performance and Operational procedures as well .
Syllabus is given in my above post
More or less the same as an EASA / JAA syllabus . Questions too are copied from either the RK bali book or the JAA question bank Where can I get hold of the JAA question bank?

Would the 2 books and the question bank suffice to clear the exam?

[cyrilroy21]

Actually any one book is more than enough to clear the exam

Buy the other one only for its question bank

The JAA ATPL question bank can be accessed here

Flight Training (http://www.turbineturbine.com)


http://www.easabank.eu

Dont forget that these questions are primarily based on the JAA Regs .

And Check PM

[SuperflyTNT]

Hey, are the ATPL papers valid for 3 years or 5 years ?

[cyrilroy21]

The papers are valid for 5 years from date of passing the exam :)

[matthewgamm]

^^^
You've got a PM!

[SuperflyTNT]

Thank you @cyrilroy21. Appreciate the prompt reply as always.

[rahulred5]

@ Cyril I am guessing thats 5 years from the date of the written and not the oral ? Correct me if I am wrong.

[Sam737]

Dear friend, I appeared in nav atpl on 22nd feb attempt, got 61 marks which is quite frustrating, I had studied from Oxford and Keith Williams, I am not sure where did the rest of the questions came from, questions based on mass and balance and flight principles, e.g. Questions based on stalls, cg etc. I am not sure how to go about next time rather from which book to study from along with Oxford and KW. Can you guide me on that please. Would appreciate.

[cyrilroy21]

@rahul

For Atpl Nav and Radio aids you are not considered passed until the day you pass the oral exam
So legally speaking it should be counted from the day you pass the orals
For Atpl Met since it does not have any orals it's counted from the day you pass the written

Word of Caution ***
The DTL section has their own methods of interpreting the rules than the average person so it would be prudent to confirm it with them regarding the validity
Their interpretation also keeps changing from time to time depending on the officer in charge

@sam737

ATPL Nav syllabus consists of Mass & Balance and Performance as well . Am sure you must have seen these books among the Oxford Atpl books
Consider buying the Keith Williams books for these two subjects as well for explanations of the answers
Please refer the ATPL syllabus thoroughly prior to attempting the exam again

http://dgca.nic.in/cars/d7b-b6.pdf

[LieDetector]

5 years from the date the results of the written are declared.

[rahulred5]

Thanks Cyril it's something which even DTL does not know lol !

@ Liedetector do you have a link to this ? I tried searching the very user friendly DGCA site but haven't found anything to put an end to the doubt.

[cyrilroy21]

@rahul

Lol..... I am not surprised :hmm:


Anyway I think this example should clear the air regarding the result

ATPL result October 2012 without oral

http://dgca.nic.in/result/Pilot1012.pdf

Atpl result with oral October 2012

http://dgca.nic.in/result/Pilot_1012(with%20Oral).pdf


Notice in the first link it does not say pass or fail for those who passed the Atpl Nav and radio aids written exam

Only in the second link with the orals does it say whether you passed or failed

This once again confirms my earlier statement that you are not considered passed until the oral exam results are also published for Nav and radio

[LieDetector]

^^The 5 year Validity will be from the date of the written regardless of when you clear the orals(given that it is in the 2 year time period immediately after the written).

What is the confusion?

[cyrilroy21]

@LieDetector

But you are not considered passed in the ATPL NAV and RADIO aids exam even if one get 90/90
Which is why on the result page it does not say pass or fail for those that get 70% or above in the ATPL NAV and Radio Aids exam

As you said the the exam results are valid from the date the results are published . As far as NAV and Radio Aids are concerned you will only be considered as Passed on the day the oral exam results are published

[LieDetector]

No. What I was referring to earlier was to deal with instances when the delay in declaration of results(OMR) became a problem at the time of license application, so you could submit your license application with a letter stating that the results are awaited. Now not an issue as the date of exam and the result coincide.

So as per the CAR's section 7

Latest Revision 12 Nov 2010

Subject : ELIGIBILITY CRITERIA FOR WRITTEN EXAMINATIONS FOR
ISSUE/ EXTENSION OF FLIGHT CREW LICENSES/RATINGS.

6.6 "....for issue of CPL and ATPL, such period shall be five years."

[Sam737]

Dear cyrilroy21,

Thanks for your help and guidance, I have cleared atplg air nav exam in yesterdays attempt i.e. 15/5/2013.
I am still left with the viva of radio and this attempt nav. Would you kindly guide me on the topics to be covered for both..
Regards.
Sam737

[cyrilroy21]

@Sam737

Glad to know you made it this time . However the real challenge is in passing the oral exam

Please refer to this thread to get a feel of the questions asked during the orals

http://www.pprune.org/south-asia-far-east-wannabes/471764-dgca-atpl-oral-qbank.html

[dhruvpande]

Any recommendations on where to study for the Met paper from?
Any particular airline notes that they seem to be asking questions from?

[bayblade]

I had prepared from IC Joshi and Oxford as well to some extent, that helped me clear the paper. There were no questions directly picked up from either of these books with a few exceptions. So just concentrate on understanding the concepts but do refer a couple of books.

[boeingpilot81]

hey guys, I'm a cpl holder (dgca) & want to apply for the jab attempt of atpl exam. Can anyone please tell me how many papers are there the jab attempt ?

thanks in advance

[takeoffpowerset]

hi can anyone share ATPL Met questions , i know there is no specific book from which dgca asks unline Radio aids and Nav . any help would be appreciated .

[takeoffpowerset]

hi can anyone share ATPL Met questions , i know there is no specific book from which dgca asks unlike Radio aids and Nav . any help would be appreciated .

[mothwing]

I used IC Joshi and Volare questions:ok:

[dhruvpande]

Check your inbox for details regarding MET

[sharma1prash]

Dear Lie Detector
The validity stars from the attempt you pass your oral and not your written exams.Only after one has passed his/her oral exam(s),he/she is considered is passed for an exam and the 5yrs validity starts then.
All the best.

[Flying738ng]

Dates for oct online session is released , nov last week

[kingraj]

Hi Friends,
i had appeared for Orals for Nav and Radio Aids.It was my firsts attempt and it went on for 45 mins...the qns in no particular sequence were :
1. after basic introductions, they asked me the difference between ILS X, Y and Z approach to a particular airfield, differences in the approach. they showed me the approach jepessen chart of Kochi .
2. RNP concept and difference between RNP 5 and 10. what all are the external links or inputs required for RNAV eg rho-theta, ins, irs
3. what is the RNP during approaches and during enroute flying.
4, LVTO and Low visibility landings
5. ACARS
6. RNAV
7. GPS errors and clock error is more over which terrain- built up, oceans or mountanious
8. WAAS and LAAS
9. functioning of GPS no of satellites,
10. RAIM...is explained the concept- then he asked the full form and i answered Receiver autonomous integrity Monitoring and he asked me whether it was remote or random or receiver
11. then EDTOPS and he asked with respect to a flight from chennai to singapore
12. errors of NDB
13. Night effect
14.Frequency Modulation
15. ILS and DDM
16. Auto land system and Fail safe and fail passive
17. Auto brake...
18. Cat II ils conditions.

The examiner was asking basics about a concept and didnt go very deep. he wanted to check whether i knew the basic concept.
in the end he told me gud and said that it loks like i had prepared
thats all guys
Kingraj

[Aviator.Skywish]

I have converted my foreign CPL to an Indian one. I have a ME/IR endorsement on the Indian CPL. Is it necessary for me to give the Technical General exam for my ATPL?

[cyrilroy21]

^^^ Since you have an Indian CPL you only need to give ATPL G NAV , RADIO AIDS AND MET

[aviator_0088]

Is station model still asked in the Atpl met exam??

[autop1]

Hello friends,

Appearing for ATPL exam october 2015 session, could someone guide me which book to refer for NAV, Radio Aids and Meteorology papers. Oxford or KW. Any tips or reference to any QB pls. Thanks

[Kon2g]

hi guys,
is there any school in India that is under ''easa'' standards? for example, if somebody has the exams of atpl subjects passed there (fees also cheaper), do they recognize it in Eu? thanks for your time

[john mathew976]

how many questions does nav and radio aids have in atpl online exam

[sushantmmehta]

Good evening everyone.
Can someone please post questions being asked in the recent delhi viva attempts?
Thank you.