Queen's Building Viewing Terrace

[airsmiles]

Has this/will this be demolished as part of the Heathrow East development? I'd be interested to know what condition the viewing terrace got into, as usually nature seems to do a very good job of taking over if no maintenance is undertaken.

Cue the posting of excellent photo close-ups of DC9's, Caravelles, Boeing 727's etc. (with any luck!)

[Wander00]

Takes me back (a LONG way) to my youth! Used to cycle to HR from Eastcote for a day's viewing from there.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

The QB has gone and the terraces, which were on the roof, were not in use for many, many years prior to demolition due to security problems. It is just not safe nowadays to have people milling about near aeroplanes, as I'm sure you appreciate.

I spent many, many hours on the QB and T2 when I was a kid but in those days there weren't lunatics trying to blow us up!

[NWSRG]

HD,

Is it really that significant a security risk?

Anything you could do from the roof of the QB, you could also surely do from the top floor of some of the car parks, or from the car park of The Renaissance, or from Myrtle Avenue. All of which would be much more difficult to secure than a formal viewing area.

I suspect that the lack of such a facility is more to do with the headaches BAA don't have as a result of its absence...corporate management tends to have little in the way of sentiment or soul these days. A public viewing area just doesn't generate the income!

Saying that, I wonder what it would take to open up the old control tower to the paying public. No better view, and could be secured fairly easily...I would certainly pay a tenner for an hour or two there...

[Proplinerman]

I agree with NWSRG. Basically, BAA view spectators as a nuisance and distraction from making ever greater profits and as far as I know, there are now no viewing facilities at any of their airports. As you say, the QB terrace was closed many years ago as part of a drive by BAA to get rid of spectators at LHR. I spent a few days there in my planespotting time in the first half of the 1970s-happy memories.

OK, BAA have a business to run, but is it really asking too much for them to provide a facility say half as good as the excellent viewing park at M/C (bar the exorbitant parking prices there now)?

[Flying Lawyer]

Takes me back a very long time too.

Anyone remember the 'Tavern in the Sky' at LHR?
I can't remember now exactly where it was situated, and don't know when it closed, but I remember enjoying the view years ago.

FL

[Entaxei]

Was'nt that the one in the centre of T2 at the back of the restaurant, which you went through to get to it, then through some glass doors and onto the terrace area, which was a level lower than the Queens Building rooftop garden.

But from fading memory, I believe that it had a limited angle of view to the tarmac stands.

Does anyone remember Stan the commentator on the QB roof gardens and his assistant Elizabeth, gave out details of each movement on the tarmac and runways and, in between times played light classical style music from LP's. Two very nice people. Wonderful times for spotting & photography, in a world that had not turned sour. There goes nostalgia, is'nt it luvverly. ;)

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Entaxei. The two original commentators were Stan Little and Flo Kingdon. Flo died not too long ago in her 80s but Stan died way back. I last saw Flo in the Approach Room on the 6th floor of Heathrow Tower back in the 80s. Unfortunately I was busy and she was with visitors so I never had time to speak to her. Elizabeth (if that was her name), came on the scene a little later. She is still about and an ex-colleague of mine from Heathrow ATC sees her occasionally. A few years ago I found Flo's home phone number and had a chat with her. She remembered me from those far off days. Later I sent Flo a copy of the book Heathrow ATC - the first 50 years but received no reply so maybe she was ill.

Great music too - gave a me a life long love of Mantovani and Glenn Miller! On rare occasions I used to telephone them for the reg of something rare. Stan was a keen spotter but Flo wasn't, although she was always very helpful.

Happy times, never to be forgotten.

[ZFT]

Wander00

Takes me back (a LONG way) to my youth! Used to cycle to HR from Eastcote for a day's viewing from there.

I used to do the same from Yeading. Great fun cycling through the tunnel too.

[Jhieminga]

Have a look at this between 4:00 and 5:00:
PClV1nqNlvg
It is a preview for a dvd available from Video125 (google is your friend) that includes a 10 minute section about LHR in the 60's. I'll have to look at it again to see if the commentators at the QB are included, I seem to recall that they were, but the preview doesn't show it.

[Wander00]

ZFT - drove through the tunnel a few weeks back and commented to my wife that I used to cycle through it and she would not believe me - not sure if it was going through the tunnel or me cycling!

[Proplinerman]

Did cyclists go through the two side/subsidiary tunnels or the main tunnels? I think they were there, originally, from old photos-before my time.

[NWSRG]

Folks,

Can anyone recommend a really good book charting the history of Heathrow? There seems to be precious little out there that charts the development of the airport, and I would love to find something that would show the terminals as they grew, with all their add-ons and amendments...

Any recommendation?

[Wander00]

IIRC, bikes through side tunnels, but it was a LONG time ago - now what did I just have for dinner?!

[Proplinerman]

"Can anyone recommend a really good book charting the history of Heathrow? There seems to be precious little out there that charts the development of the airport, and I would love to find something that would show the terminals as they grew, with all their add-ons and amendments..."

"Heathrow at 60." Can't remember name of author and can't put my hands on my copy right now. Obviously published in 2006 and a very good read. I'm pretty sure it's available thru Ian Allan/Midland Counties, or, in all probability, Amazon.

[Kingbeaver]

London Air Port (http://www.dhc-2.com/London%20Air%20Port.html)

for some images from early 1960's

Great viewpoint..happy days. I cycled too, from Scotland!

Neil

[NWSRG]

Thanks Propliner!

Copy now on order.:ok:

[ZFT]

Proplinerman

Did cyclists go through the two side/subsidiary tunnels or the main tunnels? I think they were there, originally, from old photos-before my time.

Cyclists & pedestrians both went through the side tunnels. What I'm now trying to recall is what on earth I did with my bike all day whilst in the Queens Building?

[Art Smass]

I recall when arriving early (before the Queens opened around 10.00am) standing at the security gate entrance near T2 watching the arrivals and chatting to the guards).

Then move up to the restaurant for breakfast to watch the European stands. Then after a full day on the Queen's, off to the top level of the T2 carpark to watch the evening arrivals.

great days:{

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

<<What I'm now trying to recall is what on earth I did with my bike all day whilst in the Queens Building?>>

You probably left it up against the wall outside. Recall that in those days this was not a place of thieves and hooligans...

[26er]

In those days most of them worked "airside" as baggage handlers !

[Tankertrashnav]

I think it a shame that airport design seems to conspire to hide the aircraft from the view of the public. Even regional airports are guilty - waiting to pick my son up at Exeter arrivals I was reduced to squinting through a crack in a locked door to get a highly restricted view of the manouevring area. On flights using major airports it is quite likely you will never actually see the exterior of the aircraft you have flown in as you will embark and disembark in an enclosed tube.

Playing devil's advocate I can sort of see that spotters might be considered a nuisance, but to deny the fare paying passenger a view of the aircraft they have paid to fly in seems extreme.

[26er]

And what happened to the Mustang model on a plinth donated by, I believe Captain Blair (?), husband of Maureen O'Hara?

[Evanelpus]

The Queens Building probably did more to enhance my early spotting interests than anything else.

I can remember sitting on the old balcony in the early 70's listening to the commentary. I can also remember the 'new' location for spotting, whilst not as good, got you up close to the action.

Don't let anyone fool you into thinking it was anti terrorism reasons that the QB closed. I believe it was down to manpower in maintaining and running a facility that didn't play an integral part in a profit making business.

RIP QB, you are missed but not forgotten.

[Lukeafb1]

I remember back in the 50s my cousin and me being taken to Heathrow for the day by my uncle. At that time, you could have a tour round the pans and airside area in a BOAC double decker bus with the radio tuned in to arrivals/departures. For a 10 year old, it was like being taken round Cape Canaveral!

More than once I visited the viewing area atop QB.

25 years later I worked out of LHR. :ok:

[VX275]

My first recollection of Heathrow was climbing the frost covered steps leading to the viewing galleries on the Queens Building.
I had been taken on the overnight coach trip from Cheadle by my elder brother and the his group of Spotter mates from Ringway.
All I can really remember, apart from the frosty steps, is listening to the radio speach of Harold Wilson devaluing the pound on the trip down.

[WK622]

You can still cycle in and out of the Central Area via the small tunnels; I've done it myself several times. It can be a tad scary as you share the tunnel with the taxi's. Due to the width and the speed bumps, which have a cycle gap in the middle, you have to ride in the center of the road so the taxi's have to go at your speed. `Patient' taxi drivers versus aging legs - mmm!

One morning I was well over half way through and all alone, until I heard the regular `bump-bump' of a taxi starting it's journey over the speed bumps behind me. Silly really but I did wonder if the driver would see me, and found myself pedaling ever faster to keep him at bay. :)

On the way out you can carry your bike up the steps at the tunnel exit and pop up just west of the Police Station. There is quite a lot of cycling information on the BAA website.

[folkyphil]

VX275....

So that's why the terraces were shut...no de-icing facilities for the stairs! That would never pass "H and S" requirements nowadays!

Spent many happy days on the Roof Gardens from 1964-67, come rain, ice or shine. Thereafter I worked inside the Queen's Building for three years.

The only "unsatisfactory" occasion spent spotting from the gallery was on the day when The Beetles returned from their tour of USA. Thousands of screaming young girls awaited the arrival of the PanAm flight, which parked in front of the commentary box. The noise was so loud it was impossible to listen to our VHF sets!

I've lost touch with my old "gang" from those days. If Les Hitchings, Dick Johnson or his sister Margaret happen to read this, please send me a PM.

P.H.

[Proplinerman]

VX275: was that on a NORWAG trip? My first visit to LHR as a spotter rather than a passenger was on one of those, plus many more trips there and elsewhere from 1972-5.

[Warmtoast]

NWSRG


There seems to be precious little out there that charts the development of the airport, and I would love to find something that would show the terminals as they grew...

My small contribution to this thread.

In 1956 stationed with Fighter Command Communications Squadron at R.A.F. Bovingdon I went along for the ride in a 90 Group Varsity calibrating the nearby ROTOR radar station at Chenies in Hertfordshire (near Bovingdon) and took this photo of LHR as it was in the summer of 1956 from 10,000ft looking east.

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/thawes/RAF%20Bovingdon/BovingdonRadarCalibrationVarsity-LA.jpg


On the left alongside the Bath Road (A4) the North Terminal with the silver shapes of airliners is visible. In 1956 until at least 1960 transatlantic and intercontinental traffic departed from the North Terminal (I have a photo of a friend boarding a Pan Am B-707 bound for Baltimore taken at this terminal in October 1960). This terminal was housed in pre-fab buildings and was still in use until late 1960. I don’t know when the newly built Oceanic Terminal came into use to handle long-haul traffic.

My photo shows the layout in June 1956 taken from 10,000ft looking east. The centre island as shown consisted then of the ‘Europa Building’ (now Terminal 2) which can be seen at about 2 - 3 o'clock in the centre island, whilst the future 'Oceanic Terminal' (now Terminal 3) for long-haul flights (visible at about 5 o'clock in the centre island) was under construction
The Bath Road (A4) shows up on the left as the dark strip running top to bottom parallel with the north main taxiway & runway. In 1956 the M4 was but a gleam in the planner’s eye – it was to be another nine years before the first stretch of the of the M4 westwards from Central London to Heathrow opened in 1965.

On the right the A30 (the lighter of the two darkish strips) wends its way through the (then) rural delights of Middlesex towards Hounslow and London. Straight ahead and beyond the airfield boundary, just beneath the cloud line the A312 can be seen running left to right.

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/thawes/NZAirRaceCanberra2.jpg

Three years earlier on 8th October 1953 I visited London Heathrow to watch the start of the London to Christchurch (New Zealand) air race and took the photo (above) which shows one of the competitors, the first licence-built Royal Australian Air Force Canberra serial number A84-201.
Interestingly the background shows the girders for the new ‘Europa Building’, which was actually the first true terminal building and was opened by the Queen two years later in 1955. The higher girders outline what I think is the ATC control tower under construction.

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/thawes/RAF%20Bovingdon/NZAirRace1953Lineup.jpg

I also have in my album a photo I cut out of a newspaper showing the line-up of the NZ air-race competitors with the terminal with building works in progress.


http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/thawes/Heathrow-NorthSideControlTowerc-195.jpg

And this photo shows the LHR ATC on the north-side of the airfield near the north-side terminal, much earlier I think, but am not sure of the date.

[D120A]

Mid-day, 30 Sept 1964, after a foggy morning:

http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x118/D120A/Z19.jpg

[twochai]

Warmtoast

A few months before that, July/August 1953, on a summer visit from Glasgow, my English grandad took me, aged 11 years, to Heathrow to satisfy my raging passion for airplanes in any form. I well remember leaning up against a portable barrier watching the passengers board a Comet 1, like the one in the distance in your photograph, and getting an intoxicating whiff of burned kerosene as it taxied out.

Six months later the family emigrated to Canada. 13 years later I started work at DHC!

The effect of that whiff of burnt kerosene lasted 50+ years and provided me with a great career and a world of experiences.

I cannot believe my good fortune in life!

[Reverserbucket]

And what happened to the Mustang model on a plinth donated by, I believe Captain Blair (?), husband of Maureen O'Hara?

A relative currently works for BAA on the Heathrow East project - the project offices are housed in the old Control Tower Building in which I had a very interesting tour last year. I asked the same question as when based at LHR some years ago (after the QB viewing area had already closed but the T2 one was still open) I seem to recall seeing the P51 model whilst walking between T1 and the QB along the passage that joined the buildings (would that be correct?). He told me that it's a bit of a mystery as it apparently 'disappeared' a few years ago and no one seems to know where it went. It would seem that few at BAA in recent times had any notion as to the significance of the model in any event. There was an auction of items from T2 and the QB a couple of years ago - I'm told that it wasn't there. Wonder what happened to the brass handrails on the staircase in the QB? Apparently a lot of interesting old artefacts were uncovered in long forgotten storage areas and tunnels(?) beneath T2 - a lot of 50's/60's vintage VHF radio transmitters were mentioned; what might these have been used for?

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

<<I seem to recall seeing the P51 model whilst walking between T1 and the QB along the passage that joined the buildings (would that be correct?). >>

Yes. Pity if it has been destroyed, but nobody nowadays would understand the significance. Where's Alcock and Brown and the Cedar of Lebanon tree??

<<a lot of 50's/60's vintage VHF radio transmitters were mentioned; what might these have been used for? >>

Possibly airline communications? Many airlines at Heathrow have their own ops frequencies for talking to their aircraft.

[26er]

Who is Maureen O'Hara (O@Hara)? I hear you sprogs ask.

[Geezers of Nazareth]

The statue of 'Alcock & Brown' is now outside the 'visitor centre' (hah!) on the north-side, quite close to the Renaissance Hotel.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

OK - ta. The Cedars of Lebanon tree used to be outside the side entrance to the tower opposite T2. T'would be a shame if it was destroyed.

[Out Of Trim]

I'm another old spotter that used to love to visit the Queen's Building in the 70's. It was just a 5 pence bus journey on the 285 from New Malden.

My brother and I shared a pair of broken binoculars; we had a one half each of some old german pair. So a monocular each I suppose! We took a Sandwich with us and spent many a happy day watching the Tridents, VC-10s and even Concordes.

Oh yes, and underlining the regs in Civil Aircraft Markings books, whilst listening to ATC on an old Sharp Airband Radio. ( Still have it and it still works )

What a shame that today's kids have nothing like this now!

[ZOOKER]

As a child, I was very interested in railways, as my father worked fo Brush in Loughborough.
In 1967, my Aunt Maud took me on a coach trip to London Airport, and we spent the whole day on The Queens Building roof-terraces. I was 11 years old.
That day changed my life.
Everyone should have an Aunt Maud.
XXX.

[WHBM]

a lot of 50's/60's vintage VHF radio transmitters were mentioned; what might these have been used for?
There was a wonderful story about one of these radio users in Propliner magazine many years ago, which had nostalgia articles about Heathrow in the 1950s. It comprised (a) one of these radios, so bulky that they were worn on the back like a backpack, complete with large whip aerial; (b) the clumsiest member of the outside ops staff (every office has one, of course); (c) a fire extinguisher, wall mounted; (d) the ops office counter with all the forthcoming flight plans laid out on it.

Enter (b), struggling as ever with the weight of (a), crashes into (c) which is dislodged, (b) attempts to catch it but just manages to depress the plunger instead, which then causes (c) to vent all over (d), causing substantial delays for the rest of the day !

[A30yoyo]

The last remaining part of the Terraces on top of T2 was still open into this Millenium...surprisingly it reopened after temporary closure due to 9/11 but closed permanently when Iraq was invaded in 2003
LHR Terrace (http://www.abpic.co.uk/photo/1006684/)

I think the view from the cafe by the northern window of T5 is pretty good...you can see the takeoffs and landings

[A30yoyo]

There was recently a thread on another forum which featured superb 1950s propliner photos (linked from flickr) in which post #20 listed the various viewing enclosures at LHR over the years
1950's Archive Part 16: Propliners - Key Publishing Ltd Aviation Forums (http://forum.keypublishing.com/showthread.php?t=107843&highlight=propliners)

[A30yoyo]

There is a decent Pathe Newsreel about the race ,goes large OK

12.000 MILE AIR RACE - British Pathe (http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=31308)

[Warmtoast]

A30yoyo


London-Christchurch Race 1953 - Pathe Newsreel

Thanks for the link, I hadn't seen it before and it brought back memories.

[A30yoyo]

Warmtoast...Very nice aerial shot you took of LHR....DCW's flickr photos of Propliners and British Propliners have many views of LHR from the various enclosures/terraces....