Flight Training College of South Africa

[BAEJ41]

Hi All

Can anybody give me some inside info about the Flight Training College of South Africa? I'm starting my JAR ATPL education and whant to know if the Flight School is a good or bad education center ?

Thank you very much.

[wheels up]

Try asking this question on the African Aviation Bulletin Board - (regional issues forums) - I'm sure you will have a better response. From what I've seen / heard FTC is not bad at all, although I dont speak from experience. My first choice in SA would be 43rd Airschool though. Might be biased since I did my training there. Look at the threads on the African Aviation bulletin board.

[inyoni]

Or you could look on the Forum of SA Aeropages: www.aeropages.co.za (http://www.aeropages.co.za)
My preference, from personal experience, would be as per Wheels Up - 43 Air School, plenty of good comments on the Aeropages forum about them.
Also if you consider doing anything in the Jo'burg/Gauteng area remember it is known as one of the most dangerous places on earth as far as violent crime is concerned, but 50 odd miles away the problem is significantly reduced. In the Eastern Cape even more so, making 43 Air School even more attractive.

[abc123497]

Inyoni...you talk so much crap. Everytime someone mentions the Gauteng area you try and put people off by talking about how bad the crime rate is. Ok, so maybe the crime is at a higher level than other parts of the country but to go as far as describing it as the worst on earth is ridiculous. Anyone would think that u are trying to persuade people to go elsewhere. Its like being anywhere if u go to the wrong places then you`ll find it but if u stay away from places that you get warned about you`ll be fine. People describe London as being bad for crime and its not as bad as scaremongers like you make out, but if u walk down the wrong street something may happen.
Personally i feel if u travel abroad u have to watch your back where ever you go and the Joburg area is no exeption, but my no means let this stop u from ever going anywhere.

[Ivan Ivanovich]

I agree.Whilst there is a considerable crime problem in many parts of SA - particulary Jo'burg - it is no worse than may other cities around the World - including some in the UK (try walking through Moss Side in Manchester at night). For years SA cities have been safe areas due to some internationally unpolular policies. Now, free of curfews and white only areas, South Africa is suffering from a rise in crime in traditionally safe areas. South Africans are just not used to it. The crime threat, though real, is sometimes a perceived one in terms of how bad it actually is.

I did some flying from Rand Airport in Germiston and I've been travelling to and working around Jo'burg for alomst 10 years. There are much worse places around the World.

[BAEJ41]

Thank you very much for your reply's. It has given me some info. about SA and the areas. And I will carry on looking for the flight school that is right for me.

Once again thank you for your answers.

[rolling circle]

BAEJ41 - You say that you are starting your JAR ATPL education. Before you make your choice, ensure that the school you choose is approved for JAA training. At present no SA school holds such an approval.

[BAEJ41]

Yes I know, but I was told that FTC of SA will be JAR Approved within the next 6 months. Thank you for informing me.

[abc123497]

Now who is talking crap Rolling Circle. FTC in south africa has had JAR approval for over a year now and is currently about to finish its second JAR ATPL course. The third starts in April.
People should really check their facts before making ill informed posts on this forum.

[EX FTE]

You do also realise that the JAA approval of FTC is in fact a CAA approval since JAA expressly forbids training outside of the EU? The CAA are doing it for various places under their own steam, much to the chagrin of the JAA.

Plus you still have to do your IRT exam in the UK with a partner provider! Go look at the details of the courses offerred out of the UK - they do PPL and hours building and some CPL/IT training oversees but the final rides and training are in the UK. This applies to WMU, PanAm, IATA, OFT etc.

You seem resigned to waiting 6months for JAA approval (dont start the course until they have it) but why not just get stuck in? You could enroll for the theory now!

[rolling circle]

Now who is talking crap Rolling Circle. - You are, old chap. Had you bothered to do the simplest research (phone the CAA), before hurling abuse you would have discovered, as I did, that Atlantic Flight Training hold the approval, FTC are merely a sub-contractor. They cannot offer JAA training in their own right.

People should really check their facts before making ill informed posts on this forum. - I agree, you should try it sometime.

[inyoni]

Well said RC, FTC and it's MD keep chancing their arms on this approval via Air Atlantique ( I wonder if AA are aware of this?) through various subterfuges on these pages. I suggest looking at the very interesting comment made by a local about this company on the African Aviation forum. We had a good laugh in the crew room on that today.
Those of us who are well versed with the local scene, know indeed that FTC prey on foreign pilot hopefuls, the locals tend to avoid it, need one say anymore?
I have already pointed out to the moderator of this forum the possible involvement of the MD of FTC in creating interest/raising the profile of the company via this forum.

[inyoni]

Well - adc12345 whatever, this time I think you've bitten of more than you can chew 'ek se ou swaar'. RC is probably one of the most informed and credible correspondents to these pages.
Who you are - well Peter I sure we both know that you are a fairly important man in your own way and that 'jy dink almal praat kak behalve jy! Ek se maar niks meer menheer!'
I want to indulge in some utter flight of fantasy here (no my names not Spielberg) and if I had a wish, my wish would be that abcdef12345 whatever was the owner of FTC and Rolling Circle was the CAA man responsible for the oversight and approval of JAA approved schools in the UK for JAR. Now FTC decides to get JAR approval 'de facto' instead of riding on the back of AFT approval, then the real plot would be that Rolling Circle knew that 'abcdef12345whatever' was the MD of FTC, but the other party didn't know who Rolling Circle was, Now I'm not saying of course what the outcome of the approval inspection might be because the CAA man would of course be absolutely impartial in the real world, but let suppose this is fantasy what do you think the outcome would be? Well I'd like to think there is a God - wouldn't you? Well one can dream?
Now he other scenario is that said FTC man, despite protestations about the lack of crime in Gauteng gets his fancy German car stolen/hijacked right inside the security parking at Grand Central Airport. Well I suppose I can dream on, but I would like to think there is a God, so hopefully it not the car that gets stolen/hijacked at gunpoint!


[This message has been edited by inyoni (edited 15 February 2001).]

[rolling circle]

inyoni - I'm not too keen on your flight of fancy. Those who can 'do', those who can't join the CAA and make life difficult for those of us that 'do'. I'd much rather be where I am, doing the job, than be stuck in the Belgrano.

I have obviously triggered a personal vendetta here, which was not my intention. I know nothing of FTC and have no reason to believe that they are anything other than a perfectly splendid outfit. However, the fact remains that they do not hold, in their own right, an approval to conduct JAA training. I fully accept, however, that, when acting as agents for AFT, they carry out JAA training under the supervision of AFT's Head of Training and, to this extent, I agree that approved JAA training takes place at FTC. This has never been in dispute.

Exactly the same relationship exists, for example, between OAT and UND Aerospace whereby UND undertake JAA training at Williams Gateway as a part of the OAT approval. UND, however, do not hold a JAA approval in their own right and cannot take on students other than those training under OAT's approval. On the other hand, OAT also sub-contract training to PanAm. The difference here is that PanAm also hold approvals, in their own right, for JAA training and can (and do) provide JAA training which is nothing to do with OAT.

Surely it is in the interests of propective customers to be fully aware of the status of any organisation with which they are about to do business. All I'm trying to do is to make clear to the uninitiated the way that the JAA approvals system works. Why our alphanumeric friend should have any difficulty with this I'm not sure.

[inyoni]

Rolling Circle
I must apologise if my 'flight of fancy' offended you. Amongst myself and some of my colleagues you do have something of a 'cult' status however, with your accurate and highly informative contributions to these pages,
Unfortunately when I saw the posting accusing you of talking crap I did see red and I do know that is one thing you never do. However, a certain Peter Volland is very fond of the word 'crap' and accuses anyone with whom he disagrees with of talking the same (note the Afrikaans translation of the word is Kak), and as he has emailed me using his name accusing me of talking it. I am sure that when ever I see a brand new contributor to the forum using/abusing the word that it is indeed Mr Volland behind them.
I do not have a vendetta against Mr Volland and FTC, but anyone who reads 'Wheels Up' posting on the African Aviation? forum will get an idea of what the locals think of FTC sic: 'A sausage factory that preys on foreign hopeful pilots'. There are some excellent Flying Training organisations in SA teaching to a syllabus that is very closely aligned with JAR. I would not cite FTC as being one of them, and this company's lack of professionalism does harm to the many good schools in SA. If you were to visit some of them and particularly 43 Air School I am sure with your expert knowledge in the Flight Training field that you would be very impressed.
I also take exception to the implication that FTC seems to be deriving some marketing kudos as being the only 'JAR' approved school; in SA, thus implying that they are the best, and of course as you rightly point out that is not true - Atlantic Flight Training are the holders of that approval. I do also wonder if AFT have any idea that FTC are ruthlessly using this approval to their own ends to exploit the gullible and naïve Wannabee. Should anyone have any doubts in this case it would be wise for them to contact the UK and SA CAA's for a more authorative viewpoint.
As to my fantasy RC it was just that, we all have those fantasies about the young hooligan driver who cuts everyone up on the road to be seen or cut up an off duty policeman. My fantasy was purely in this vein, again my apologies if this caused offence.
Please do keep up your contributions to this and the Instructors fora, many of us do value your insight.
------------------------------------------
Semper in Excreta, datum variat!


[This message has been edited by inyoni (edited 16 February 2001).]

[This message has been edited by inyoni (edited 16 February 2001).]

[wheels up]

Inyoni:

For the record I would like to point out that I made no such comments about FTC being "a sausage factory preying on foreigners". That comment was made by someone else in German and I was merely interested in a translation.

I have flown at FTC once and was not overly impressed with the condition of the aircraft that I flew (Arrow ZS-LAR I). That was a couple of years back though.I was also not too impressed with the fact that I had to book a week in advance to get a slot.

In FTC's defence however, there facilities appear to be top class and their new accomodation block is excellent. The presentation of the notes that I have seen also appears very good.

People seem to ignore the smaller schools that are out here which is a pity. A lot of them offer top class training in excellent aircraft at good rates with the benefit of personal attention. Any big school, no matter how good, is likely to feel like a sausage factory - that is the nature of large organisations.

[43 Air School]

Although we do not participate in this forum, we here at 43 Air School feel that PPRUNE provides a very useful forum where people can freely express their opinions.

As a flying school we welcome comments, including constructive critisism, as I am sure all schools do. We are, however, concerned about this element of "personal name calling" which can only detract from the useful purpose the forum provides.

Frik Schoombee, Marketing Manager, 43 Air School

[This message has been edited by 43 Air School (edited 23 February 2001).]

[PPRuNe Towers]

Thanks Frik,

I saw your registration going through the system the other day and suspected you might want to comment on this thread. Our thanks for very valid points succinctly put.

Contributors, please note that the post above this comes from a very well thought of school that has always garnered praise on this site. Sadly they seem to do so well at getting students they've never felt the need to advertise here - ah well..........

Inyoni and abc, please keep it constructive or do your feuding elsewhere.

Regards from the Towers
Rob Lloyd
[email protected]



[This message has been edited by PPRuNe Towers (edited 23 February 2001).]

[inyoni]

PPRuNe Towers
Point taken sir - no more from me on this subject.