ISSUE OF FAKE PILOTS IN INDIA// Time to take Action

[pilotbaba]

I am sure we all have been reading a lot regarding the FAKE PILOTS ISSUE in India. I am starting a new thread with request to all to please keep the issue with-in limits so we can focus on the real issue.

If this ENQUIRY is allowed to proceed like any other regular enquiry in INDIA, then here’s what will happen............

This enquiry will probe mostly all the genuine people & possibly result in a few suspensions, because DGCA enquiry & then a CBI probe will need to present the report & eventually, need a few scapegoats to eyewash the public, a few BAKRA's for the BALI will be needed.
Obliviously, they can't touch the VVIP kids & also they can't touch those DGCA officers who openly asked for & took money. The DGCA employees will also get to walk free because of their UNION connections & pressure.
So the enquiry needs to find some guilty people, any IDEAS who will those be....??

They will a couple of people from the common walk of life, sons & daughters of common man, those who worked hard, studied & even took loans to get a license, either from India or abroad & did everything right, but only wrong thing they did was may be had to submit a stupid CA 39 Form, when they were forced to do it, paid money in DGCA when they had no other choice......

These common people will be accused of fraud & paying bribes...... Their Licence will be suspended & they will lose their life...

[pilotbaba]

This is the time........

It is time for the pilots to speak up and let the world know that Pilots are not the real culprits, as depicted by media........

The action should be against the real culprits, the DGCA officials who took money & participated in the MASS FRAUD, took money to pass papers, move the medical files, hide them from one reason or another, those DGCA guys need to be Ousted……………………

The corrupt officers, incompetent officer & clerks who are full of themselves created anrchy & an environment where they forced people to pay & left no choice for people who didn't want to pay & get involved in their schemes.

The procedures that were put in place do not exist anywhere in the world, have reason or logic, were just made arbitrarily...........

Those who have no skeletons in their closet, those who have not done any fraud, those who actually passed the DGCA papers, no matter how, but passed, should have no fear.
Those who actually had a REAL Foriegn LIC, which they converted should have no fear, those who just had to go with the FLOW because of the DGCA, they should all speak up,

This is the time.......

A letter written to the CBI with a copy to the PMO & the press, with signs from the pilots, at least 1000 pilots, who were forced to participate in the FRAUD & BRIBE programs of DGCA. This letter should keep the full names & LIC # of these pilots, hidden or anonymous.
The letter should state that people want to speak up about the corruption & frauds at DGCA but the fear of persecution & wrath by DGCA is the reason for keeping the identity secret.
So if the CBI needs these people to testify, then either ministry of CIVIL AVIATION or the supreme court has to provide immunity in writing & then people will come out & speak up. CBI will have to protect their real names & LIC # of all those who testify.


Most likely, 50% of the DGCA staff will be suspended.............

[pilotbaba]

It is EVEN more important for all the active pilot license holders to get ready, get organized & speak up…………..

In Every country of the world (at least the developed world) & for every trade or profession, there is an association or trade group to represent them, lobby for them & speak on the behalf of the members, protect the members interests……….

Even non profit organisatios hire the lobbyists to lobby for them.......

Why can't the pilots do that.......

We need something like that, we need to form a professional pilots association, with all active pilots as it’s members. The role of such a group shall be to hold DGCA, civil aviation ministry & the Goverment accountable to what the problems & needs of the pilots are & make sure that the association continues to lobby for procedures & laws that are consistant with the rest of the world.

The association will work to get the processes streamlined for issues as Small as medical assesments to CME dates or Lic renewals. The role will then increase to issues like changing the Pilot exam structure, defining course materials & then increasing the frequency of exams for issue of licences.

There should be a membership fee, initial joining fee & a recurring annual fee.
The funds shall be used to hire professionals who would lobby the central govt & ministry of civil aviation & if need be, hire attorneys to go to supreme court if DGCA & CIVIL AVIATION DEPT starts to act arbitrarily.
The association will work to protect the interest of the pilots & the work on ssues, big or small which affect the pilots at stages in their careers.

This association may not be very strong initially, but eventually will become strong, very very strong.......

I am sure that if the pilots can pay the DGCA for license renewal, they can pay their UNION or association to make sure they don’t have to pay DGCA.

[rdr]

pilotbaba,
i fully agree with you on all your points. but it is not just the DGCA which is a collection of dogs preying on the young and desperate men/women, but most gov institutions in New Delhi. these dogs are a convenient barrier erected by senior pilots in the Indian aviation industry, who did nothing to check its cancer so their own positions, ambitions and greed were realised. that is why, so many of their freinds and children are in cosy positions. yes it is a conspiracy of greed.
Hazare is attempting to bring down these barriers. i do hope he suceeds. for every brave person like you who takes on the real problem, there are many who just refuse to see, deny or will criticise. some are frightened, and some, look at the opportunity to advance themselves if others fall. this situation has been brought about because of the lack of leadership and guidance of the senior Indian pilot, who has allowed uneducated fools of the DGCA the run of things.

[Aviator4u]

bro from your post i can very well understand that u have been a victim to the stuff you mentioned and you paid someone in DGCA,most probably regarding your CA 39 form. But you need to understand that not everyone took the way you followed. You should have brought this to the notice of higher authorities instead of falling prey to these ill practices. You talk about writing a letter to CBI and PMO mentioning the licence numbers of those who paid bribe,what do you think would happen to them?? All their licences would be cancelled. Remember those who paid bribe are also PARTNERS IN CRIME... I appreciate the way you think, but i donot think whatever you mentioned about the letter can ever be practical.

[bayblade]

i couldn't agree more with views of the poster.
there's a very powerful group of people in U.S. on aopa who fight for rights of pilots and also bind them together.
india is a different story. nothing is going to change no matter how deeply truly you want it to, the primary reason being the lack of unity amongst us. we are a very weak group of people whose only claim to flame is criticism. whenever someone comes up with the notion to clean up the system or any thing thats going to benefit the mass, many others pop out from mysterious place all armed to thrash him/her.
also i believe its just you and i jobless people who feel so, cause once you get a job and are going good, nobody is going to give a **** about all this.:(
if something instrumental stems out of the thread,then am all in for it!:ok:

[pilotbaba]

I have said that we should keep the Real Names & Lic # HIDDEN or confidential.
These people will come forward & testitfy only in a closed door room only after they are given a written guarantee of Immunity towards their licence & any future persecution..........

No matter how powerful these guys may be, the public is the most powerful & MEDIA is a very powerful agent that can form the public opinion & bring down even the most powerful........

Ever powerful person who is HIGH on his money power & influence, thinks he is invincible....... Is he really invincible.........

No, I never had to resort to the CA 39 & things like that, but deifinite paid for medical assesments & renwals & etc etc.....

However, I have seen the plight of hundreds of pilots, some friends & some strangers, who had to resort to paying, DGCA guys would openly say, U need to do something to get the file out of stack, the complete mediacl file with 10 year history would be lost & then suddenly re-appear next morning...........

Why the PILOTS HAD TO BRING FAKE PAPERS, because the real papers were being rejected by DGCA under the pretext that this is not right, its hould be like this,...........

That's why I say, THIS IS THE TIME, the public attention is on this issue, let's bring the attention on the real issue......

Strike when the iron is HOT

[doubleu-anker]

baba

Well done indeed. I have every sympathy with your and every other young Indian pilot's plight, who are been screwed by the system.

There is strength in numbers guys and there may have to be sacrifice along the way in the future.

The power of the pen and non violence has been proven, to be mightier than the sword. Look what happened in Egypt and other countries.

I wish you guys every bit of luck that can be mustered. :ok:

[nafod]

As an ex-pat here, I do have personal experience in what voices the hard working pilots have as a group.

The FAA seems to be reactive to any negotiations pertaining to how to make the system safer and more economical.
Regulations have even been changed when clearly they missed the mark.

Unfortunately, regulations sometimes are reactive rather than proactive.

Imagine a group of people at the top of the DGCA who have done the jobs you are doing....been subject to rules without logic or common sense, and, most of all, there to help.....instead of be helped.

Look at the job requirements to become an FAA Inspector.
True, many are like Barney Fife who could not make it in the "private sector".
But, they know what needs to be done and usually do it.

Not many years ago writing a new certification for "10 or more" operating certificate had a checklist of requirements.
Everyone had to stick to the list and the certification was straight forward.
(Including the dreaded, expensive proving runs.)

Other countries have had far longer to develop their aviation programs.

India was like a dam had burst just a few years back.

No, I don't think they are doing the job in Delhi......even though there are some great people there....whose voice has been stuffed with a sock.

On another post days back I read where someone had pointed out the condition of the DGCA headquarters. This is not even related but....YES IT IS.

These people have no pride and have no means to get it.

The ICAO is watching while patting their little feet.
Politics galore are keeping further development from happening.

Yep, this seems to be a turning point. I don't think there are many more "fakes" who simply had to pay or lay bricks.
The fact that they could pay is the problem.

In the case of whomever it is/was who landed on the nosegear.....did anyone ever sit with her during her training and watch a duck land on the water?

Again.....she was put in a position that even she knew was wrong.

All India needs is some credible personalities who are not afraid to be objective and as loud as necessary to prevent the next fatal.

The cup is still half full, not half empty. I think you may be onto something, Sir. Just hope you are not a reporter....they are part of the problem.

By the way, I did have to pay to retake the FATA written.
I was even told beforehand that I was supposed to fail it at least once.
I failed it big time. It had nothing to do with flying a jet at .85 at FL450 to anywhere in the world. (what I came for.)

I had never heard of the "hills of Mumbai", let alone how close you could fly to them.
I wanted to write...."Who cares?..Just shoot the approach as published!".

My company paid.....I found a "study guide" and ace'd it later.
The FATA was issued with TRI/TRE based on obvious, current experience....AND, a new copy of the FAR/AIM seen through the plastic bag I had carried with me to the interview.

When asked what is this? I said it is a new edition of anything you ever wanted to know about flying...with nobody to ask. It was mine and I was taking to my new flight department.
It never made it. Not sure who the gentleman was but.....elderly, statesmanlike and "official".

At least we know there are examples of how other countries deal with the same issues on a desk somewhere in Delhi. (at my expense of 50 bucks!)

We are all victims....some just have more bones broken and will take longer to fix.

I'm in if it will help India adjust to the "here and now", not the "better than thou".

Good reading guys/ladies. Just an ex-pat who wanted to help.

[shawnbhandal]

I sent an email to DGCA'S PRESIDENT, BHARAT BHUSHAN... I told him to look into transport canada's system (CAR's), maybe it might help prevent future fraud.... The :mad: hasnt replied yet...

My personal opinion about this case is that all of this happened because of how DGCA runs the show. I dont blame the pilots at all.

You should watch the following debate, its funny at times i think, but very interesting.

part 1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pP_dZVaz2gY
part 2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bse5ypmnFIQ
part 3 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_T4XEbs2mzw

[ecks]

I wish every fraud to get caught. There are hundreds of them.
These Pilots are responsible , DGCA to take strict action:m: against their employees . There r so many pilots from Canada , Philippines and others also got their logbook n marksheet forged. even some AFIR are also issued . peoples are increasing their hrs at home no one gonna check ?
even senior pilots in airlines are responsible.. to get these kind fraud for money and also not forget.relations
of which we already got example of director of air safety.

though I m. strongly in favour of keeping their identity in files only .