Tornado pilot blames dirty windscreen for near-miss

[ricardian]

From The Scotsman today (http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/scotland/Tornado-pilot-blames-dirty-windscreen.6748674.jp)

[Stuff]

Windscreen wash bottles?

Is that a newish mod or was I really asleep during groundschool? I don't remember those.

[foldingwings]

I thought we used rain showers as they were more effective!

Foldie:ok:

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

You were asleep;
had 'em on the F3 anyway, though they were f-all use for clearing salt spray.

[howiehowie93]

GR1 had then fitted as standard between the cockpit and the Radar bit at the front bit behind the Radome. Only ever saw them used once in Lossie;

Some aircrew type remembered they were fitted and demanded they be filled up on the next flight. Us ground crew had to look it up how to fill them and what with !!!:=

Any way crew in time and the Rigger Sneck came out to our HAS for a look with a big grin on his face !! Wait for it he said. Low and behold as the pressurisation kicked in and the Wash Bottle was pressurised - water started spraying everywhere out the front ! Running down the side to make a big pool by the nose wheels. Also trashed the avionics and the radar package. :ugh:

Apparently its a major job to fix, involving the Radar coming out and some none simple airframe hacking to replace it ??? (I was a Sootie and didn't get involve in other trades stuff):E I wonder if it was the equivalent of the Phantoom's No 1 tank where they get a particular component and build the aircraft around it ??

Prolly still fitted but I bet they still aint used !! but more likely properly documented and LIM'd out now I expect.

regards
H;)wie

[SRENNAPS]

They were used in the early days at TTTE.

I was doing a post primary* ground run and one of the checks for the riggers was to carry out a func of the bottle. A short time after I had operated the system there was mega fumes in the cockpit. With eyes weeping & stinging and throat burning, I shut down and vacated the cockpit feeling quite wobbly:yuk::yuk:.

Turns out that a pipe was leaking and the liquid had contaminated the fairy kit giving off nasty fumes.

Despite my protests saying that I was fine after a gallon of water, I was taken up the med centre, in a meat wagon, for every test in the world.:eek:

Still, I got the rest of the day off.:O

[AllTrimDoubt]

Mmm. Perhaps if one cannot see clearly at LL on a training flight, with no means of remedying the situation as reported, then a LL abort may have been sensible airmanship?

[Shell Management]

These days there are some that think airmanship is about making excuses after the event.:ugh:

[ewe.lander]

Pompous beyond belief Shell Man, have you ever flown low-level operationally?? If so - I assume you were perfect........:suspect:

[Biggus]

ewe

If you had read many of Shell Man's comments on other threads, which you obviously haven't, you would be able to answer your own question!

[TurbineTooHot]

The little pressie button for it is on the ECS panel, near the demist.

Never had one work on me.

If your canopy is dirty, don't accept the aircraft. You're the bloody captain, do some captain stuff and get the lineys to clean it. They might moan (shouldn't) but the Training Cell does teach them to keep the canopy and front clean.

Pain et buerre.

[red zebra]

Gr1's definitely had them fitted and operational even back on 14 at Bruggen and 617 at Marham, it was part of the B\F can't recall if it was on the T\R though, would have thought so. AFAIR fill point was stbd side just behind the radome, Can't recall what we used to top them up bu it wasn't water :=

[Saintsman]

If your canopy is dirty, don't accept the aircraft. You're the bloody captain, do some captain stuff and get the lineys to clean it. They might moan (shouldn't) but the Training Cell does teach them to keep the canopy and front clean.


Oh, they'll clean it. Usually with a dirty rag out of their pocket and with a big ball of spit!

"Clean enough Sir?"

[whisperer]

I know it was fitted, used and refilled regularly on the (not so mighty then) F3 during GW1, I recall the mayhem caused after some fool topped the coolanol up with screenwash fluid......

[just another jocky]

They've stopped using them now. Not sure why. I asked SEngO a couple of years ago why. He told me, but I'm so old and senile now, I really can't remember what he said.

As TTH says, exercise some Captaincy and don't accept the ac. Simples!

[Secretsooty]

On the GR4, it's still part of the post-maintenance (p*, minor, Minor*) ground-runs to check the windscreen wash during ECS functs......
We always did it in AMF @ Lossie....... can't vouch for other units however.

[just another jocky]

Curious. It was on XV (R) on my return to the fold that I discovered they were no longer re-filled. :confused:

[Ogre]

Saintsman

Tsk, tsk, please don't bait the lineys. Back in the days of the banana jet we used to take great pride in keeping the canopies clean before sorties. So much so I think we used more cans of "Sparkle" than the red arrows! Well we did, I can't speak for the dog squadron on the other side of the runway.:E

[howiehowie93]

Ogre wrote:
So much so I think we used more cans of "Sparkle" than the red arrows!ah Sparkle, before that we used the little bottles of plastic polish.

One day at BRU someone was sent up to the HES to get some more sparkle but the cupboard was bare !!! :{ Apparently some high up Stores Person had cancelled the re-order as we were using too much of it!:ugh:

I think we cancelled the wave to make a point !:E (or did they all crew out ?? :))

Soon got more Sparkle delivered - local purchase from Roermond maybe !!

Regards
H;)wie

[Sgt.Slabber]

Ogre - yes, it was used across the way. We also used it on the TVAT glass once the salt residue had been washed off...

[glad rag]

I know it was fitted, used and refilled regularly on the (not so mighty then) F3 during GW1, I recall the mayhem caused after some fool topped the coolanol up with screenwash fluid......

Easily done once all the cans became a uniform shape/colour and only the Ris were colour banded for use.

WHAT effin eejit thought they'd save a few££ with that special trick.:ugh::ugh:

[Mach the Knife]

Probably the same effin eejit that believed our highly trained technicians could read the label on the tin.

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

Technicians get tired, especially when said accountants mean there are less of them with the same workload,i.e. efficiency savings. But the cleanout of the cooling system comes off someone else's budget,so the guy who made all the cans the same still gets promoted. :ugh:
Of course,it's not really the accountants (have to say that, I have rellies who are accountants),it's the people who are supposed to manage the accountants. If the MoD had an eyetest, they'd be looking out through glass balls. Maybe they already are looking into glass balls,as I can't see where else they are getting their force requirement predictions from (and nor can CAS it seems).

[glad rag]

Oil can in a line locker, that is "in use". Paper label stuck on.

Nope not getting it are you mak.

17 years line ops [amongst others] this screamed **** up central to all at the front end whose thoughts were dismissed in a similar manner to your reply.

Even with the best will in the world the "gotcha" is there.

Also ties in nicely with a number of threads on here re-airworthiness and skewed [and I'm being polite here] thinking from the top......:ouch:

[stumpey]

Why didn't he just lean out and give it a squirt from the water filled "Fairy" bottle rolling around on the floor? Kept me going one winter in the old Capri, (Till the squeezy bottle froze as well. And yes, I did eventually get around to fixing the heater............ the following Summer)!

Jeez Pilots - its not Rocket science, is it? :p

[Tashengurt]

Why didn't he just lean out and give it a squirt from the water filled "Fairy" bottle rolling around on the floor?
Tsk. Every five year old knows the new shape fairy bottles have no squirt power.

[sumps]

In my early days as a liney on these things (late 80’s) we were told and shown on our Flight Servicing Course at Coningsby how to top-up the water bottles IAW the flight servicing schedule, however on reaching the squadron this had “stopped” (unofficially as far as I can remember) because the bottles would leak wash fluid over the equipment below it. (Electrics and water…you get the picture?) it became the “accepted norm” by ground crew and aircrew alike. However the canopies and front were polished spotless after the BF.

Until one, day some years on, when a pilot needed to clean the screen in flight and couldn’t due to this ground practice. Once down he raised a report which ended in disciplinary action being taken against the liney and supervisor whose task it was to replenish the bottle. It also saw bottles being replenished at record rate (as there were gallons of washer fluid stacking up in POL) and a number of unservicabilities due to the leaking of washer fluid over adjacent equipment.

I haven’t worked a Tornado since the late 90’s but I do remember them to be a pain to rectify due to limited access. I wander if this old fault versus practice is making a return? And if so critical then why not fix (in the technical sence) it so operational capabilities are not compromise through aircraft engineering practices?

[Pontius Navigator]

On one aircraft the wash was pure methanol, 96 pints of the stuff. Tried to use it one, all it did was spread dirty liquid over everything.

Another time the tank leaked and the aircraft guard became drunk from the fumes.

[Really annoyed]

Tried to use it one, all it did was spread dirty liquid over everything.

Why would you need to clean the windows in the back? Navigators aren't allowed in the front seats, they failed the Pilot aptitude tests.

[Biggus]

Actually, when I went through nav school about 80% of the nav students were chopped pilots - so most of them DIDN'T FAIL THE PILOT APTITUDE TESTS........ :=:=:=:=

They just failed pilot training....

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

Quite a number of navs have gone on to be front seaters, and the rest had quite the same level of SA as the monkey in the front. I was quite happy to drive them around.
Of course almost all could actually do a bit of pole work. I remember we used to give them an impromptu convex before they got a job in the desert, in case their Arab driver decided "allah has control".

[Q-RTF-X]

Oh, they'll clean it. Usually with a dirty rag out of their pocket and with a big ball of spit!

"Clean enough Sir?"

Did the good ole Canopy Cloth go out with the Lightning?

Anyhow, in my day it was a matter of our own self esteem and all-round diligence to ensure canopies and windscreens were clean (even when our turnarounds were usually in single digit minutes). Don't remember any wash bottle thingies in those days.

[pubsman]

It looks as though it won't matter if the windscreen goes uncleaned:

"BAE Systems Responds to An Urgent Operational Requirement For Frontline UK Tornados"

BAE Systems Responds To An Urgent Operational Requirement For Frontline - BAE Systems (http://www.baesystems.com/Newsroom/NewsReleases/autoGen_111311105032.html)

[Tourist]

Wow!

This has definately got to be a leading contender for the

"Pprune dullest thread" competition.

[howiehowie93]

or shiney, sparkliest thread.


;)

[MATELO]

Can I interest the pilot in the new RAF "inflight" windscreen wash service.

http://www.pprune.org/military-aircrew/447212-hercules-meets-typhoon.html

[Jetex_Jim]

Wow!

This has definately got to be a leading contender for the

"Pprune dullest thread" competition.

Don't bet on it, competition in that area is pretty keen. I recall the thread regarding lance corporal RAF types...

[Pontius Navigator]

It's just an attempt to polish up the forum.

[Really annoyed]

Wow!

This has definately got to be a leading contender for the

"Pprune dullest thread" competition.

Actually this thread ranks way down the list when compared to this one.

http://www.pprune.org/military-aircrew/438609-enhanced-learning-credits.html

Somebody trying to make ELC's sound interesting and funny. Dull or what.

[engineer(retard)]

Wouldn't have needed ELCs if they had worked harder at skule :\