Unusual A/C ID

[pax britanica]

PPrune is usually pretty good at this sort of thing so did any one see the same odd looking plane Isaw today
A lovely sunny day saw me drop in at Blackbushe to see whatwas going on and it is alsoa great place to see ovr flights as there are no buildings or trees of any height.

Around 1350 while Iwas looking ata contrailing KLM 777 i cught a glimpse of a silver /grey aircraft headed a little north of east on roughly the same track that I have seen aircraft inbound to Stansted from the west use.
Unfortuneatly it was alreadya little past me but it looked a little like DC3 with twin engines and wings witha swept leading edge and straight trailing edge-it 'appeared ' to have a sort of 'sting' device behind the tail like a maritime MAD fairing .

I am pretty good at aircraft recognition having wasted too much of my life gazing at the sky but this puzzled me. I would have felt sure it was a DC3 but it seemed to be moving a little fast but then guessing speed and altitude of an overflying aircraft is very hard-I would guess it was around 9-10,000 and clealry ahd to be above the LHR traffic but then thatseems abit high for a non pressurised DC3. I have looked on radar virtuel, I can get the time precisely because of KLM 777 I saw but there is nothing shown for this-so any ideas please.

[No comment]

There was a Canadian BT-67 (Turbo DC-3 or whatever they're called) buzzing over the Channel Islands a few weeks back.

That had a MAD boom at the tail. Can't for the life of me remember the reg.

[pax britanica]

No comment

Many thanks- a bit of Googling turns up a survey turbo dak-puzzled for a whilel since it appears the boom is retractable and didnt show in most of the pictures but finally found one with it extended. Pretty certain thats what I saw colour scheme looks right as well. The DC3 wing plan is pretty unusual and of course the MAD type boom. The turbine engines explain why it looked too fast for DC3. Anyway happy i wasnt imagining things and thanks again

Wonderful day for scanning the skies of course and nice to see something out of the ordinary.

PB

[Morrihell]

Noted here;

http://cardiffstathan.********.com/

Scroll to the bottom and click "older posts" and then scroll down again for the "Over the Top" bit

13:27 EB FL190 N of NUMPO C-FTGX BT-67 c/n 25769 [CYOO/Oshawa > CYYR/Goose Bay > BIRK/Reykjavik > EINN/Shannon > LI??/Rome]

Seems to fit with what you saw.

MH.

[Liffy 1M]

Here it is getting ready to depart from Shannon for Rome-Ciampino yesterday.

C-FTGX Basler BT-67 Bell Geospace | Flickr - Photo Sharing! (http://www.flickr.com/photos/n707pm/5601043219/)
C-FTGX Basler BT-67 Bell Geospace | Flickr - Photo Sharing! (http://www.flickr.com/photos/n707pm/5601026751/)

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

OMG.. it probably flew over my house and I missed it!! It brought back memories of another very rare Dak overflying where I lived as a kid - N19912 of PanAm - in March, 1963. They were the days.....

[pax britanica]

Thanks to all for their input on this - and I am quietly pleassed with my recognition skills that I was right and it was Dak albeit somethign of an odd one.

HD, I wasnt into spotting in 1963 but I was by 65 and do not remember a PAA DC3 -what was its role. The American 'oddity' I recall from those days was the TWA Fairchild packet with its auxiliary jet on the fuselage roof as wellas its two big radials. It was used to take spare engines around Europe I belive . Was the PAA DC3 some sort of support aircraft too?.

The Turbo DAk I saw was probably a few miles north of Blackbushe and flying pretty much parallel to the 'bushe 07/25 runway so that would tell you how close by it may have been to you I guess.
Actually the last few days have been truly spectacular for over flight watching havent they.
Thanks again to all
PB

[AircraftOperations]

Thanks to all for their input on this - and I am quietly pleassed with my recognition skills that I was right and it was Dak albeit somethign of an odd one.

Not that "quiet" if you're telling us you're pleased with yourself!:O:p

[pax britanica]

Well I was but I take your point , it was meant in a converational way rather than entirely self congratutory and to convey some senee of my thanks to people why kindly took the trouble to make helpful suggestions on a very minor issue.
PB

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

PB... You should be very pleased with yourself; that was a rare aeroplane!

I've no idea in which role the PAA Dak served but given that the USAF used loads of Daks in those days for ferrying staff around it might have been used for that purpose..

N9701F "Ontos" brings back memories. I first saw it heading for London Airport in 1961 and some years later, whilst I was working in Africa, I had the pleasure of talking to it! What joy.

From your description, the turbo-Dak must have been close as I live about 3.5 miles NNW of Blackers. Maybe it will fly home over here - some hope!

[ONE GREEN AND HOPING]

Just came across a couple of photographs of N19912 that I took in probably 1962 or 1963.


I was working as a 'CRC agent'....i.e. clerical duties.....for Pan American ( Cargo Reservations Control/Coms/Panamac etc ) and on a familiarisation trip around the Inter German Service ( IGS ) stations.

I was intrigued by a re-conditioned, sparkling, and highly polished DC3 in standard Pan Am livery. It was on the ramp at Stuttgart STR, and I seem to recall being told that it was in use between there and Templehof whilst the STR runway was closed for re-development. It may have even had to operate off grass. I'm even not sure how I got to Stuttgart from Frankfurt. It could have been onto grass in an IGS DC6, since that was the IGS aircraft in use at the time. ( I might not have flown in at all. ) I made a couple of jump-seat rides in the DC7c freighter, but that was on the LHR FRA schedule. Again, I can't be sure, but I think this DC3 was operated by an enthusiastic group of volunteer Pan Am pilots, who probably would have been dual qualified with the DC6.


Does anyone know what happened to this aircraft later on, or have any memories of working on or with it.? Eventually, of course, Pan Am introduced the 727 on the IGS.

It was only by putting N19912 into 'search', that I found it mentioned here for the first time, apart from ads on the internet for scale models.

[keikoebe]

It works well! http://www.imgquick.com/images/43.gif

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

I must find the pics of N19912. It was on 25 March, 1963 when it overflew my parents' house, routeing Woodley-Dover. I couldn't believe what I was seeing but a quick phone call to Panops London provided the necessary information. That remains the only PanAm Dak I've ever seen - a real treat! Wow, that was over 48 years ago!

[A30yoyo]

Google is our friend
AirlineFan - Pan Am DC-3 N19912 high quality photo (http://www.airlinefan.com/airline-photos/large/2103939/Pan-Am/Douglas/DC-3/N19912/)
PAN AMERICAN -DOUGLAS DC-3 -Postcard | eBay (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PAN-AMERICAN-DOUGLAS-DC-3-Postcard-/150652286916)

[ONE GREEN AND HOPING]

I left Pan Am at the end of 1963, but have Emailed a pal from those days to put feelers out with their local ex Pan Am association for a bit of history from those who might have operated or were otherwise involved with this special DC3. When I managed to nail a flying job at this time, the DC3 was very much around in large numbers for low time co-pilots. They were usually fairly grubby compared with N19912 though.

Having just seen the photo of N19912 at IDL, I'm wondering if the aircraft was refurbished there, and then ferried to Germany?

I've used the 'Air Train' between JFK terminals to the Subway at Jamaica quite a few times, and everytime we pass the old Hanger 14 main hub, I still think IDL. Strange to remember that Panamac, the (first?) airline mainframe computer took up the whole 3rd floor of the Pan Am building. Maybe it would all fit on an AppleMac today.....