Foreign pilots with 0 "time on type" in India

[FLAPileaks]

Have Indian carriers in the past, or present, ever hired foreign pilots (Captain or FO) with no time on type? I don't remember ever seeing a job advertised, but I haven't looked in a couple of years. Airbus or Boeing or both? AI, Jet Airways, Indigo?

Cheers

[itsbrokenagain]

At present not allowed... but why would they hire a foreigner with 0 time in type when there are thousands of local pilots with 0 time in type??

[captjns]

Hey now wait a minute here. Would you not agree that Airlines in India hired Indian pilots with zero time??? What about the fakes that are flying around that have been or awaiting to be found out:}?

Come on now... a Foreigner hired with zero time is far more legit than a local alleged logged hours and no airman certificate... hmmm:E???

[attitudeFlying]

An Indian pilot with legit certificates will be far more competent than you atleast!! Just because few of us were cheats do not make whole of us cheats okay! Get over with Indain bashing pls!

[captjns]

Oh oh attitudeFlying... your cover may have been blown:ooh:!

Atleast is two words... not one (at least). Hey by the way atitudeFlying... don't you have to demonstrate your spelling ability in order to obtain an Indian Airman Certificate;)?

[Capt Apache]

@attitudeFlying

He must be from one of those broke countries.He needs to vent his frustration.Let him be

[sunset_contrails_10]

@Attitude flying

Zero time on type doesn't mean no time on aircraft and no flying experience. I know of a couple foreign pilots that were allowed to pay for their own Airbus Type and fly for six weeks with a Check Captain before being released. They came with prior experience for an Indian Airline and thousands of hours of jet PIC.

How many Indian pilots have that right now?? (not talking of the PIC that Indian Pilots log from the right seat.)

[weido_salt]

Wont happen now of course. They are getting rid of genuine Captains, with thousands of hours PIC, on type in the LHS. Some have walked before they were pushed.

[GlueBall]

Guess what: I am not in India, but I'm a foreigner in Asia who many moons ago went DEC [Direct Entry Captain] into the B747 with no time in type. . . Can you just imagine that? :ooh:

[itsbrokenagain]

Actually I kind of understand why these people have technically cheated on the exams and got a pass mark thru alternative measures. It seems that the effectiveness and practical application of the current DGCA exam system is questionable. In the rest of the world could you imagine sitting an exam that has no learning objectives, or no syllabus... let alone is not even written or marked by a Pilot!!!

I am not Indian, I am a foreigner working, passing on my knowledge and helping some Indian Pilots progress in their careers, I will soon be gone as planned and expected. I find it really sad the way the state of affairs that the Indian Aviation Scene is currently in, but its going to be a long long time before we see it anywhere near acceptable standards in my mind (both flying, ATC and maintenance)

And plus even if these Pilots did pay for a pass card, they have since passed at least 1 if not more check rides with sim examiners and at least 2 per year route checks, so their practical flying capabilities are surely there.

[FlyingManutd]

Another " Expats Vs Locals "........:p

[captjns]

Isn’t it ironic that SWIP and the IAPU can flex their muscles in an attempt to rid India of expats?

And the unions not using their influence to strong arm the DGCA to reform their dated ways of doing business?

Why is that these unions don’t demand an immediate thorough audit of pilot records to ferret out the fakes?

Also, isn’t it ironic that some members of these unions also work for the DGCA:(? How is that not a conflict of business:eek:?

[attitudeFlying]

There are enough good and honest Indian pilots than you can think of.
We all share your concern on safety in Indian skies.But that does not give you any right to keep bashing all Indians.You may not be aware but there is a huge movement going on in India to end corruption.Indians are as fed up of it as you are.This will surely take time but you have to have faith in the honest ones.
And yes you can take potshots at my spelling or grammar. :ok:

[Nevrekar]

The situation in India as elsewhere when it comes to contract flying is purely supply and demand. When I was hired by Spicejet in early 2007 on the B737NG they were hiring folks with zero time in type as Captains, provided these guys had other PIC experience. When the applicants with time in type are plenty, then the requirements are hard. Once they have no one applying, they soften them. For a LHS job in India or elsewhere if you have other jet PIC time, there is always a "chance" that you might get picked up. You will have to fly with a check pilot for a month or two to get the required hours on type. I am told that SG has a bunch of guys hired recently who have no NG PIC time, but have plenty of PIC time on the B737 Classic.

I think the market will open up again for PIC jobs. All the U.S. age 60 guys who came to India will be retiring in the next 2 years. That will dry up that market segment. There is now some movement and hiring in the U.S. and as long as China, and the M.E. keep offering better pay packages with commuting options, there will be jobs available.

I enjoyed my almost 4 years at Spicejet. They still have a great bunch of guys there. Their weakest link in my opinion is the HR DEPT.

[FLAPileaks]

Thanks for the info. I always wondered why anybody would go to India for far less money than other countries. I just clicked on an Indigo ad and it was 9k a month for a Capt, after local taxes. The Koreans and Viets are paying about 11k, and the Chinese and ME countries are paying much more (ME if include their considerable benefit package).

I quit flying about a year ago and semi-retired doing sim instruction. I did 2 contract jobs in Asia before retiring. Every pilot I met, probably more than 15, whose previous job was India, said that going to India "got them on the triple" or "now I am a fully qualified airbus" pilot." I didn't know the Indians would hire 0 time on type pilots, but it makes a bit of sense now.

I haven't trained any, but I have heard other sim instructors talk about doing an initial Capt qual on a couple of pilots who are "going to India".

[ecks]

Why don't DGCA check details and flying records of these foreign pilots. Many of them are faking themselves for opportunity who knows?

[sky jet]

When I came to India 3 years ago I was required to provide proof of my ratings from the FAA and have been asked for it twice since to renew my FATA. The airline requested my log books and the sim sheets from my last checkride at my previous employer. Foolproof? No, but that certainly was enough info to start a pretty good background check if anyone wanted to expend a little effort. Really, most frauds can be caught with one or two phone calls or e-mails. It just takes a little will and effort. With the minimum of investigation most of the fraudulent Indian pilots could have been stopped at the CPL application.

Jet

[captjns]

ecks asks Why don't DGCA check details and flying records of these foreign pilots. Many of them are faking themselves for opportunity who knows?

Because the FAA and EU member aviation angcies are not rife with corrupt officials as the Indian DGCA is.

By the way ecks... the DGCA performs thorough records check with the FAA. Perhaps teh DGCA should do a thorough records check within their own house:ok:.

[itsbrokenagain]

In the land of the USA there is also no freedom over flight plans and tracking of aircraft (well some are blocked but thats an owner request), you can also hear recordings of ATC on the internet. So its actually hard to hide and fake hours.

BUT saying that I do know first hand of a foreign pilot with a creative logbook who came to India, he got through the DGCA processes, but was found out when he started flying and the first thing was why cant he use the FMS, why does he not even know the basics of the jet. True he had a type rating, but when we used simple things like flightaware to check his logbook authenticity we found the planes tail numbers didnt match the type he reported they were.! Funny how he left in the middle of the night....

[Capt Apache]

Because the FAA and EU member aviation angcies are not rife with corrupt officials as the Indian DGCA is.

Ya...They are angels.

On March 6, 2008, Federal Aviation Administration (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Aviation_Administration) (FAA) inspectors submitted documents to the United States Congress (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Congress), alleging that Southwest allowed 117 of its aircraft to fly carrying passengers despite the fact that the planes were "not airworthy" according to air safety investigators.[36] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southwest_Airlines#cite_note-Drew_Griffin_and_Scott_Bronstein_2008-35) In some cases the planes were allowed to fly for up to 30 months after the inspection deadlines had passed, rendering them unfit to fly. Records indicate that thousands of passengers were flown on aircraft deemed unsafe by federal standards. Southwest declined comment at the time, and US Representative (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/US_Representative) James Oberstar (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Oberstar) advised a hearing would be held.[36] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southwest_Airlines#cite_note-Drew_Griffin_and_Scott_Bronstein_2008-35)[37] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southwest_Airlines#cite_note-36)[dead link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Link_rot)]
On March 12, 2008, Southwest Airlines voluntarily grounded 44 planes to check if they needed further inspection. The FAA claimed that Southwest Airlines flew almost 60,000 flights without fuselage inspection. Southwest Airlines faced a $10.2 million fine if they violated FAA regulations. There have also been rumors that the FAA knew about Southwest Airlines violations but decided not to fine the airline because it would disrupt the service of Southwest.[38] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southwest_Airlines#cite_note-37)
On March 2, 2009, Southwest settled these claims, agreeing to pay the FAA fines of $7.5 million for these safety and maintenance issues. The original fine of $10.2 million – a sum which would have been the largest fine in the agency’s history – was lowered after a year of negotiations. The FAA gave Southwest two years in which to pay the fine.[39] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southwest_Airlines#cite_note-38)
On August 26, 2009 the FAA investigated Southwest for installing improper parts on about 10% of its jets. The work was performed by an outside maintenance company. The FAA stated that the parts do not present a safety danger, but the airline was given until December 24, 2009 to replace the parts with those approved by the FAA.[40] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southwest_Airlines#cite_note-39) The FAA is still determining whether it will fine Southwest or its vendor.

:D:D:D

you can also hear recordings of ATC on the internet.



Ya And these days the recordings can be quite entertaining.:E

Air traffic controller fired for watching movie | Herald Sun (http://www.heraldsun.com.au/travel/news/air-traffic-controller-fired-for-watching-movie/story-fn32891l-1226041941259)

[GlueBall]

Really, most frauds can be caught with one or two phone calls or e-mails.

. . .or by demonstrated performance in the simulator, or latest when in the seat of a jet on the first line training sector. :{

[sunset_contrails_10]

Captain Apache, you are right on this one. I hear the FAA is talking with the DGCA right now on how to fix all of the problems in the USA so they can advance to the level of professionalism and safety as in Indian Aviation.

Maybe in another fifty years we will get there.:ok: