Well done CAS

[alfred_the_great]

RAF stretched to limit, air chief warns | UK news | The Guardian (http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/apr/03/raf-budget-defence-dalton-libya)

Pity 1SL hasn't been so vocal....

[D O Guerrero]

Perhaps 1SL is keeping his powder dry for places where it might actually make some difference?
And perhaps where someone might hear him - do people actually read the Guardian these days?

[drustsonoferp]

I think it's quite a wise time to comment. We've just seen the RAF in relatively popular operations, and while it's still fresh with exciting pictures etc in circulation rather than a more stale stale of policing the skies when there is smaller chance of much happening it can do no harm to spell out some of the SDSR repercussions.

Importantly perhaps, he's not demanding money now, but sowing some early seeds that can be used to build later narrative for awareness in the build up to the comprehensive spending review.

nb. The Audit Bureau of Communications put Guardian circulation at 279,308 this Jan (about 150K fewer readers than Times, about 100K more than Independent) Alternatively it's the second most read newspaper website of the UK press according to the Press Gazette ABCe, falling behind only the Mail; doubtless no one at all will read the article.

Ill informed assumptions are great.

[cargosales]

nb. The Audit Bureau of Communications put Guardian circulation at 279,308 this Jan (about 150K fewer readers than Times, about 100K more than Independent) Alternatively it's the second most read newspaper website of the UK press according to the Press Gazette ABCe, falling behind only the Mail; doubtless no one at all will read the article.

Ill informed assumptions are great.

A word to the wise

Circulation = total number of copies sold.

Readership = total number of copies sold x number of readers of each copy

It's always best to compare apples with apples and oranges with oranges.

CS

[PPRuNeUser0139]

I agree with the OP.. well said sir..

[NUFC1892]

I made the stupid mistake of reading the comments as well as the article:ugh:. It's not good to be this angry this early on a Monday morning

[Whenurhappy]

Firstly, well done Sir Stephen. It will not be by coincidence that the Guardian was selected - nor is the process as simple as CAS's outer office ringing up the Guardian and saying 'My boss wants a word with your Boss'.

Many of you will remember 'Malcolm' the foul-mouthed Communications Director in 'The Thick of it'. Well, the process in town (DGMC, the role of the Cabinet Office &c) is not far from that...


Post script.

Some of the post on the Guardian website are reasonably sensible and supportive...amongst the usual bleeding heart dross. At least not as bad as many of the rabid postings often found on the Telegraph!

[Lord Spandex Masher]

NUFC, at least one other 'commentor' agrees with you!

Reading your posts is like being bukkaked with stupid

:D

[Bismark]

As a letter writer in one of the Nationals last week put it......"How can the RAF possibly be stretched with so few aircraft deployed and 40,000 people in the Service....what on earth do they all do?"

[Clearedtoroll]

I had to laugh when someone, without the slightest hint of irony, has posted on the Guardian's comments that "It's amazing that money will be found for this when... benefits claimants are routinely cheated out of their entitlement". Help!

[glad rag]

And you will no doubt enjoy the double irony that ANY level of forces pension raises the "pensioner" ABOVE the threshold of benefit payments even, say, for a family of 4, despite having 30 years of tax, NI payments etc, etc. :rolleyes:

[B_Oiledup]

p { margin-bottom: 0.21cm; } Yes people still do still read the Guardian


and the Telegraph


RAF stretched to the limit, says chief in plea for funds - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/rafbombercommand/8425646/RAF-stretched-to-the-limit-says-chief-in-plea-for-funds.html)


and the Daily Mail


Overstretched RAF needs 'more investment' warns forces chief, as government announces £5bn military cuts | Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1373154/Overstretched-RAF-needs-investment-warns-forces-chief-government-announces-5bn-military-cuts.html)


and the BBC website


BBC News - RAF planning for six months in Libya, says chief (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12953714)


etc, etc

[Climebear]

Rector

Back to the thread that started this - well done CAS for speaking out. You'll come under pressure from No10 to recant - hold the line!!!

It will be difficult for them to apply pressure as CAS was commenting in line with the Prime Minister's statement to the Commons on SDSR on 19 October 2010 (http://www.number10.gov.uk/news/statements-and-articles/2010/10/sdsr-55912):

[The Prime Minister's] own strong view is that this structure will require year on year real-terms growth in the defence budget in the years beyond 2015.

[Melchett01]

I have to say that having had a look at some of the comments left by people on all the various outlets, the one thing that struck me was just how far we as a country have descended into self-obsessed ignorance. I whole-heartedly agree with NUFC1892's comments about Monday morning headaches!

I find many of the arguments put forward to be hollow in the extreme. Pound to a penny that many if not all of these critics aren't concerned about the political, strategic or moral rights and wrongs of taking action in Libya, but just about the cost, God forbid that it might mean a reduction in what benefits they can claim.

I was also interested to see comments about how we were once again America's poodle, loyally following them into another bound to be disastrous imperialist oil grabbing venture. What they singularly have failed to appreciate is that the US was actually very reluctant to come and play in Libya, it was actually us and the French, coupled with some of the US press and commentators reminding Obama of his duty as "leader of the free world" that more or less dragged the US kicking and screaming into it.

But what really really hacks me of is that this uninformed, largely ignorant and wholly self-obsessed generation, are by their actions of being internet / media savvy and glued to the TV all day actually turning into the opinion makers which the politicians of all hues eventually end up bowing to. :mad:

Frankly, before they are allowed to post such drivel on line, they should be shown a blank map of the world with all place names removed, and told to indicate exactly where these countries they are talking about actually are. Only those that get within a reasonable distance - I'll give you a country either side - should be allowed to comment. But I bet you they haven't got a clue where Libya is. Actually, I can almost guarantee it, as that sort of task cropped up in my postgrad thesis, and back then when asked, people couldn't even find places in the UK once the names had been removed from the map. But even so, they are happy to spout their mindless drivel and conjecture which unfortunately all too quicky becomes opinion. :mad:

Right, rant off, someone give me a beer before I get really annoyed.

PS - well done CAS, it's great to finally have someone at the top state publically what we all know is true :ok:

[Geehovah]

.How can the RAF possibly be stretched with so few aircraft deployed and 40,000 people in the Service....what on earth do they all do? "How can a Company such as Sainsbury's (Waitrose, Wilkinsons ...... choose your company) with a guaranteed logistics chain, no development requirement and with over 145,000 employees be so far behind their competitors in market share? It's tough in the retail sector.

One delivers groceries, the other delivers strategic policy. I rest my case..................

[Really annoyed]

But even so, they are happy to spout their mindless drivel and conjecture which unfortunately all too quicky becomes opinion.At least they can spell "quickly"............................:rolleyes:

You need to take a chill pill Melchett, it's only an internet forum for spotters not the United Nations.

As you are a blunty Rector16 needs help with his JPA Admin I need someone to help with the Admin when it comes to JPA so that will take your mind off those nasty people who don't know where libia is on a map of Asia.
Any cooks here? Rockapes?

[EODFelix]

RA, but at least he can spell LIBYA (not libia or god forbid labia!!!)

[TorqueOfTheDevil]

before I get really annoyed


Melchett,

Are you really going to get really annoyed? If not, I'll get him instead...:ouch:

[Melchett01]

Torque,

My dear chap, please feel free. I obviously have to spend time working on my spelling!

[ghostnav]

Melchett01

As worrying if not more is those people also get the Vote! Scary....

[airsound]

At the risk of repetition, this is a bit of what the Grauniad article said about CAS' interview (my bold)The first of the service chiefs to speak out about the current funding crisis, Dalton dismissed outright any suggestion that the RAF might be merged with the army or the navy to save money and said it was inconceivable that the RAF would ever want to scale back and lose its global reach.
He also acknowledged that morale had been affected by a massive reduction in the Ministry of Defence's budget – 8% in real terms.
"People do feel concerned. Of course they feel concerned, they have a professional pride in what they do. They don't join the RAF as if they are joining a bank or an insurance company. They join the RAF because they want to be part of something that does something much bigger and better and, most importantly, has some meaning and value for everyone," Dalton said.
"So of course they are concerned. The world has become a very much more unstable place and again we have seen that in the last few days.
"They also think there is a need to make sure the government, the public, understands what they do, and understands that they are prepared to do these things provided what they do is recognised."
Isn't that just the sort of stuff that we've been hoping some chief would say?

airsound

[ShortFatOne]

yes, it is. Unfortunately, for many of us, it's way too late. Our aircraft have been shredded, our station is being dismantled around our ears and our role has been dismissed as suddenly irrelevant. Our past endeavours have been ignored in favour of cheap political gains today, our commitment and dedication have been rewarded with redundancy, or even worse, the silent threat of not being made redundant!

I attended 42R Sqn's 95th (and probably final) Anniversary this weekend and watched senior (and some not so senior) officers crying, and yes, I was one of those who :{, as opposed to being a senior officer!

I felt immensely proud to have been part of the fleet for 20 years, worked with some of the finest professional aircrew and groundcrew I have ever had the pleasure of working with and was suitably moved by the sight of the Sqn standard being marched out of a dining-in night for the last time.

A big thank you to all on the team who organized an outstanding weekend of dignified celebration, commemoration and remembrance of an outstanding Sqn. :D

The answer is always 42.

Fortiter In Re

[MaroonMan4]

I still do not get it.....

HMG can do a U turn on forests and the NHS, and yet in direct contradiction to what the Prime Minister said during the SDSR (paraphased as 'the UK should reduce its commitments around the world and live within its means) then how can we continue with these cuts with our Prime Minister still getting involved in world events (in real terms I see UK Defence commitments and contingency planning increasing post SDSR - not reducing).

It did not take the brains of an Arch Bishop to forecast that global NEOs, civil unrest, disaster relief etc etc were all going to happen in the next 5 years.

Although I have always agreed that our leadership is by far superior to the other 2 services (they have conducted some extremely clever staff work in the last 5 years) I still am not slapping CAS on the back for a job well done.

We either live with in our (military) means and put into real practice the 8% budget cut and due to this funding/resource reduction make a compensatory reduction in commitments, or we continuing funding of British defence in line with our political masters (voted by the public) aspirations.

HMG and the British public cannot have it all - either cut defence and step off the world stage or resource and fund it properly.

I would like CAS (and all of the other service chiefs) to unite and get the SDSR reviewed akin to forests and NHS - Force 2020 looks a long way off from where I am sitting in this unstable world.

If it is too politically embarrassing to admit that the SDSR was rushed, then at least get HMT to cough up enough funding to see us through to the next SDSR - and lets start now to conduct a proper job that is not rushed through purely to satisfy the HMT myopic focus on rapidly reducing the national debt at all costs.

[Wyler]

There are no votes in Defence, simples!

The combined strength of both the RN and the RAF will soon not even fill one Premiership Football ground.

I am surprised that 'Dave' got involved in Libya. By doing so he has just proven himself to be 'Heir to Blair'. Another Liberal without a clue.

I was in the Westminster village three weeks ago and went to several meetings (inc 10 minutes with the man himself:eek:). The level of ignorance is breathtaking.

But hey, that's politics. It's not about Ethos or Covenants, it's about power and holding onto it.

[Red Line Entry]

MaroonMan4,

HMG and the British public cannot have it all - either cut defence and step off the world stage or resource and fund it properly.

Actually, I think the view of most politicians in power is that they CAN have it all. Yes, the military complain and moan, but ultimately they always get the job done. The only political risk is when loss of life can be traced DIRECTLY to lack of funding (thus the effort to get body armour and helicopters).

It will not be until we actually fail on a mission that we can really expect to get more funding.

[just another jocky]

Actually, I think the view of most politicians in power is that they CAN have it all. Yes, the military complain and moan, but ultimately they always get the job done. The only political risk is when loss of life can be traced DIRECTLY to lack of funding (thus the effort to get body armour and helicopters).

It will not be until we actually fail on a mission that we can really expect to get more funding.

Sadly, I fear you are correct Sir. :sad: