EC 135 crash in Austria

[skadi]

A EC 135 helicopter of the Austrian Police with 4 POB crashed today in the Achensee Lake . At least one fatal.

Achensee: Ein Toter bei Hubschrauberabsturz - oesterreich.ORF.at (http://tirol.orf.at/stories/507324/)

skadi

[Aser]

R.I.P. :(

Aser

[B.U.D.G.I.E]

thanks but is there an english version anywhere

[Thomas coupling]

Courtesy of google tools:

Four killed in helicopter crash in lake
The crash of a police helicopter in the Achensee probably on Wednesday morning, four people were killed. Until now, a body was pulled and that of a 38-year-old flight attendant from Tyrol.


Lot of media and onlookers four persons on board
On board was said to be a German policeman next pilot, air rescue and an Austrian policeman.

The crash of the helicopter called for at least one life. According to unconfirmed reports about noon, a second man was rescued from the Achensee. More is to currently unknown.

After further intensive search is missing. In use are water rescue, fire and rescue helicopter.

Accident between Gaisalm and Achenkirch
What led to the accident is still unclear. Contact with the helicopter was minutes before the crash stopped. The helicopter Eurocopter 135 crashed at around 10.00 clock on the western shore of Lake Achen between Gaisalm and Achenkirch.





The accident site is cordoned off a large area.


Albert Haselwanter eyewitnesses observed accident
At 10.10 clock eyewitnesses reported the crash to the police. Albert Haselwanter had observed the crash. The helicopter had crashed nose-diving in the lake.

Thousands of parts of the helicopter are distributed on the western shore.

Eye See Alber Haselwanter describes the crash
WMA (210.9 kB)


Georg Pittl "machine immediately went down"
"The helicopter circled around first," said witness George Pittl against the ORF Tirol. "Then he pulled in low over the trees. I saw that he was constantly in decline. As a glider pilot, he is then typed up short on the water surface and crashed into the lake. The machine is now set."


PK at 14:30 clock
At 14:30 clock will inform Werner Senn, head of flight operations office, provincial police commander Helmut Tomac and a spokesman for the Interior Ministry, the public.

[lelebebbel]

Just to clarify the google translation, here is a "human" translation of some of the important bits of that article:

The article actually says that one body has been recovered, the rest are presumed dead but not yet recovered, because the lake is 80m deep at the crash site.

According to unconfirmed reports about noon, a second man was rescued from the Achensee.
This paragraph actually says "retrieved", as in "body retrieved", not rescued. No survivors.

"Contact with the helicopter was lost some minutes before the crash."

"The 41 year old pilot had about 2,500hrs of flight time and was considered a experienced pilot. The EC135 helicopter, at 1,300hrs, was relatively new."


The last paragraph says:

"At first, the helicopter was circling", said eyewitness Georg Pittl. "Then he pulled in low over the trees. I saw that he was descending the whole time. Like a glider plane, he bounced off the water, then crashed into the lake. The helicopter sank immediately."

[SilsoeSid]

thanks but is there an english version anywhere

If you put a web page address or text into a site such as Yahoo! UK & Ireland Babel Fish - Online Translator | Free Translation (http://uk.babelfish.yahoo.com/) it will give you a translated version of that webpage or text.

Obviously some of the translation needs reading between lines.

Translated page for this incident HERE (http://uk.babelfish.yahoo.com/translate_url?doit=done&tt=url&intl=1&fr=bf-home&trurl=http%3A%2F%2Ftirol.orf.at%2Fstories%2F507324%2F&lp=de_en&btnTrUrl=Translate)


RIP
:(

[ILblog]

Seems like auto into the water.

[skadi]

Or hightmisjudgement with unintended watercontact?

skadi

[arica]

eye witnesses tell about a final turn and a ditching with very low angle of descent on high speed, like a glider - thereafter the ship turned over and crashed into 1000 pieces.

[9Aplus]

RIP :sad:
humans are limited, their technology too :uhoh:

[chopper2004]

The pilot MP, is a very close friend of mine. Was away todya on business and only just found otu from friends of us. He has left a young family behind thats I will say. We've been friends over a decade now and my folks and his were close.

RIP to my old friend.

[yme]

Chopper
My condolences for your loss and for the family of your friend and for the families of the others lost in the accident.
Jack

[chopper2004]

Thankyou YME...much appreciated though its now a case of no bodies being found as such let alone my friend.

Though if the eyewitness statements as reported is as reported word for word.....why didnt my friend fire off a mayday if he was encountering trouble therefore resulting in an autorotation into the water.

I can't make asusmptions here, but the airframe is less than 3 years old, but like everything else in life the airframe wouldn't be without problems?

How does the 135 handle in autorotation?

Thankyou all for your kind words here.

[ILblog]

Ec135 has a very small rotor. It autorotates lake stone down, and down, and down.

[Runway101]

I've seen a news report somewhere yesterday where they said the wreck is believed at a depth of 107 meters in the lake.

[lelebebbel]

Though if the eyewitness statements as reported is as reported word for word.....why didnt my friend fire off a mayday if he was encountering trouble therefore resulting in an autorotation into the water.



There is hardly ever a mayday call when a single pilot helicopter has a severe problem, such as loss of power or control. Too much other stuff going on, not enough time to focus on explaining the situation over the radio to people who can't do anything about it anyways...

[skadi]

Another eyewitness told the press, that she saw the helicopter approaching lowlevel with high speed, then they had a collision with some trees and plunged into the lake...

skadi

[chopper2004]

lelebebbel

Thanks for that sorry I should've known. Unfortunately a few hours ago I have just received the confirmation I didn't want his family nor mine to have had and that the authorities are conducting tests this morning.

[hoistop]

It seems that helicopter crashed into the lake at high speed and sank immediatelly. Observer, sitting next to the pilot, was thrown out (presumably with his seat!) but his body surfaced soon after the crash.
Guest on exchange from Swiss police, and member of Austrian alpine police group were sitting in the back.
Helicopter was under command of 41 year old pilot, leader of Innsbruck police helicopter base.
No voice recorder or FDR installed, but HUMS in operation, so hopefully, investigators will be able to extract some data after recovery of wreckage.

R.I.P!

hoistop

[Svenestron]

Still only "hearsay" but I have translated to the "best of my patience"..

Vierter und letzter Toter aus Tiroler Achensee geborgen - Helikopter-Absturz - Österreich - krone.at (http://www.krone.at/Oesterreich/Vierter_und_letzter_Toter_aus_Tiroler_Achensee_geborgen-Helikopter-Absturz-Story-253718)

4'th paragraph from the end:
'Anwohnerin Angelika Maurer bekam den Absturz rund eine Stunde später auf dem Balkon ihres Hauses in Achenkirch hautnah mit: "Der Hubschrauber kam schon im Tiefflug und mit hoher Geschwindigkeit daher. Am Seeufer steht eine Baumgruppe. Diese hat er berührt, danach schlug er mit voller Wucht auf der Wasseroberfläche auf und sank in Sekunden." '


A neighbor, Angelika Maurer, witnessed the accident “up close”.. loose translation ~ “The helicopter came in low and fast. There is a group of trees at the shoreline. It [the helicopter] touched these and went on to hit the water with force, sinking within seconds.”


so there is one eyewitness claiming FOD..
As always, this is an eyewitness most likely NOT familiar with the world of helicopters.
This statement does not mean the A/C actually contacted any foreign object.. if it did, that does not say if the contact was caused by a previous distress or if the possible contact caused any distress..
(surely, FOD will not help ANY situation)



I have yet to see any evidence of FOD. Still I do not know if the Austrian police is looking for evidence of an FOD..


Just wanted to ad to the picture..

[Thomas coupling]

If the cab hit the trees, it should be easy to confirm with witness marks everywhere in that group of trees.

ILblog: the 135 doesnt auto like a stone?? It is like any other small/medium helo :hmm:

[chopper2004]

Well I attended my friend's funeral last tuesday, it was in his village. Good turn out and flypast of OAMTC and Police EC135. Sad day however the weather was the nicest for the week.

If its FOD that was one of the factors in causing the crash, then what something entered the inlet of the engines, something struck the MRB?

How many rotorcraft accidents over the last deacde have been attributed to FOD?

Going back to ADAC'S latest EC135 at Heli Expo 2010 in Houston, it was only on display cos of the new inlet filters installed.

Thanks

[Phoinix]

The engines inlet of EC135 is a maze by itself so I doubt FO could get near the inlet, however, that is just speculation in this Austrian tragedy.

135 compared to other small helicopters is like a brick (lets say compared to other SET). Most of the guys I fly with are afraid of the rotor limits when practicing AR and are not used to higher disc loading flare that is needed to get the ROD down to survivable limits.

[Thomas coupling]

Phoinix: Agreed the inlets to the engines are near on impossible to allow FOD. Havingsaid that I have had a FOD issue twice with the engines due in hindsight to screws working loose in or near the transmission platform.

The EC135 is perfectly normal in auto. There is nothing sinister about its flt characteristics, it autos as one would expect from a high revver. I suppose its all down to what cabs one is used to flying. Its a good pilots aircraft.

[Mr D's]

Very sad news.

I visited the Flug Polizei in 2008 and they were a very welcoming bunch of people.

I would just like to pass on my sympathy to the families, friends and collegues of those lost.

R.I.P.

[chopper2004]

Thankyou Mr D, that means a lot. Yes they are very professional and friendly outfit and will continue to do so in spite of fortnights ago accident.

[Phoinix]

Did they get the helicopter out of the water yet?

[thiago]

Possibly Altitude misjudged:

Es war kein Einsatzflug: (http://www.tt.com/Tirol/4697134-2/es-war-kein-einsatzflug-flugh%c3%b6he-falsch-abgesch%c3%a4tzt.csp)

[Flying Bull]

Hi all,

there is a reconstruction video online, which was made with information from the witnesses and on board data

https://www.heute.at/s/4-tote-bei-absturz-uber-achensee-ministerium-zeigt-video-49233079

[Hot and Hi]

Possibly Altitude misjudged:

Es war kein Einsatzflug: (http://www.tt.com/Tirol/4697134-2/es-war-kein-einsatzflug-flugh%c3%b6he-falsch-abgesch%c3%a4tzt.csp)
No, the German language article suggest that *height* was misjudged. (Low level flight over water)

[212man]

No, the German language article suggest that *height* was misjudged. (Low level flight over water)
it uses both terms, does it not? Flew below minimum height, and miscalculation of altitude.....

[Hot and Hi]

Hi all,

there is a reconstruction video online, which was made with information from the witnesses and on board data

https://www.heute.at/s/4-tote-bei-absturz-uber-achensee-ministerium-zeigt-video-49233079

Great find! The video is part of the 137-page accident report. It is an official video that simulates and sumamrises in video format the facts and data that the Austrian authorities have found during the extensive investigation. The Accident Report (https://www.bmvit.gv.at/behoerden/sub/berichte_kuerzlich.html) is illustrated, detailled and clear. However it is in German language, hence the video may be more accessible to many.

In short, the Austrians were showing around a Swiss police colleague, showing in him the lay of the land, seemingly in preparation of an important politicians' gathering in the area. The Swiss policeman was therefore crew, but not a tthe controls. The PIC (4,000 HRS TT, 400 on type; known - as always seem to be the case in such evernts - for his safety-driven and conservative attitude), took the a/c with 4 crew to a low-level 135 KTS flight just meters above the lake. Starting at 1,000 FT above lake level, he put the a/c in a 35 deg nose down attitude, 4,000 FT/min descent, accelerating to 120 KTS. Then reducing vertical descent speed (but not completely levelling out) further increased speed to 135 KTS.

It must have been spectacular. Due to glassy water conditions (all other possible causes were excluded) the PIC misjudegd his height above the water surface and continued to descent until a skid hit the water.

Weather was perfect, no wind (hence classy water surface), between 3,000 and 4,000 FT altitude ASL, OAT 10 deg C. So altitude had apparently nothing to do with the accident.

The a/c had a serviceable RAD ALT installed that seemingly was not consulted during this manoevre.

[Same again]

known - as always seem to be the case in such events - for his safety-driven and conservative attitude)

As you suggest - clearly not. I find in incredible that an experienced pilot who was flying in his own back yard and was well aware of the difficulty of judging depth perception over calm water would do such a thing - or that other experienced persons on board would sit there dumbly and allow it to happen?

[chopper2004]

Thankyou FB and HandH for the links etc...am sure my late mate's widow and son will read the news link. Small comfort for what its worth.<br /><br />Wonder how many accidents where PIC misjudged altittude (esepcially over water) which led to accidents, over the years. I do recall EMS H135 crash around Potomac over a decade ago but think that was coming into contact with construction crane at night.<br /><br />Cheers

[Arcal76]

Thankyou FB and HandH for the links etc...am sure my late mate's widow and son will read the news link. Small comfort for what its worth.<br /><br />Wonder how many accidents where PIC misjudged altittude (esepcially over water) which led to accidents, over the years. I do recall EMS H135 crash around Potomac over a decade ago but think that was coming into contact with construction crane at night.<br /><br />Cheers
It is a very easy mistake to do if you do not plan or anticipate the problem, even when trying to land around lakes with glassy water can be difficult. At high speed, the problem get even worst, a lot worst, so you don't do that, whatever experience you have. Further away you are from the shore, worst it is. Unnecessary !

[S76Heavy]

Rad Alt and especially the bug, is a life saver when used properly. Like when over water.

[rotorspeed]

Now I wonder what the comments might have been had this been a PPL thrill seeking and trying to impress his pax?

[[email protected]]

Do they have an audio rad alt warning associated with the bug?

Rad alts are great but you have to use them properly - as S76 heavy says, over water they are a lifesaver.

[Autonomous Collectiv]

Interestingly the 135 I fly has a radalt but no audio warning.

[RVDT]

RAD ALT is the absolute last resort. If that saves your bacon you have already seriously "Fuc?ed up".

The issue with this accident is the fact that even though somebody was possibly "aware" of the danger the problem is the level of severity of the danger.

Glassy calm lakes on perfect days look totally benign and therefore apparently of no consequence yet the fact is the complete opposite. Speak to a floatplane pilot.

Whiteout and sector whiteout is another dangerous condition that also looks totally benign yet is extremely dangerous. Many have come unstuck with the most notable the Air NZ DC10 into Mt Erebus. Flight visibility ~ 300 miles.

We all get told about these "dangerous" flight conditions but nobody allocates a level of just how dangerous.

[chopper2004]

RAD ALT is the absolute last resort. If that saves your bacon you have already seriously "Fuc?ed up".

The issue with this accident is the fact that even though somebody was possibly "aware" of the danger the problem is the level of severity of the danger.

Glassy calm lakes on perfect days look totally benign and therefore apparently of no consequence yet the fact is the complete opposite. Speak to a floatplane pilot.

Whiteout and sector whiteout is another dangerous condition that also looks totally benign yet is extremely dangerous. Many have come unstuck with the most notable the Air NZ DC10 into Mt Erebus. Flight visibility ~ 300 miles.

We all get told about these "dangerous" flight conditions but nobody allocates a level of just how dangerous.

Slightly digressing m my CFI came back from Sloane’s Mallorca having done the Clipper course. He suggested someday I should go out there and do it. Curiously landing on floats in an R 44 airframe on the calm Med ...guess it be easy to be lulled into false sense of security re glassy calm lakes??

If anything thats an interesting comparison With the Air NZ DC-10 fatal crash..(I have a copy of Gateway to the Antarctica - Christchurch Airport) .

cheers

[[email protected]]

RAD ALT is the absolute last resort. If that saves your bacon you have already seriously "Fuc?ed up". I have to disagree - a rad alt with audio and visual warnings and a good set of standard operating procedures is a template for safe operation over water, day or night.

It is the same as using it for NVD low level ops, if the light or audio gives an alert then you react appropriately and climb until it clears.

You just have to be disciplined in setting it correctly and appropriately.

[chopper2004]

Well it’s ten years ago on this day, the accident happened so will raise a toast to my late friend MP and his flight operator / crewman and the Siwss official and Cobra (SWAT) guy.

On happier note, the BMI Flugpolizei H135 since then flying without incident since then (my photos below from my other neighbourhood in Oberosterreich)


https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/960x640/72464219_dc85_42a6_b59b_3ec49925f450_76581e9b6c0c8ec38d4f637 02f5a78c596593f12.jpeg
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1333/a57ee76f_8606_4df3_bcbb_f7f69c56e4a8_96410128e2934ceef884f0a 2f7ff0ea388306794.jpeg
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1333/f926b90f_f35b_46b8_a7d5_a1194b9958a8_8f520df519122b5871fad89 96692d3d569d4dfed.jpeg

(The ones above from the Salzburg Flight Base)

And in Summer 2019 They took delivery of two new H125 from Airbus Helicopters Uk (I saw them at Kidlngton in My) after completion.

cheers

[Sikpilot]

The pilot MP, is a very close friend of mine. Was away todya on business and only just found otu from friends of us. He has left a young family behind thats I will say. We've been friends over a decade now and my folks and his were close.

RIP to my old friend.


Condolences on your loss. I know how your feeling today.