New, eager but now confused...

[jackw72]

Hey all,

My name is Jack and I am 21.

Have always had a large interest in aviation since early teens, done 6 hours of flying and then stopped as I started a full time job.

Having worked and saved about 7k now I was looking into completing an intensive PPL in the US. Finding this forum via the internet has been really helpful, so firstly thanks for the content.

I am now a little concerned with the lack of jobs threads and severely depressed people (:hmm:). I firstly would like to pass my PPL and spend a good few years as an instructor, join a flying club and using my licence to take family and friends on holiday (perhaps not in that order). Enjoy the experience!

I would however like it to end up in a career perhaps in 10 years time after gaining a good few hours and years. How does that sound to you in the know?

Another couple of questions;

I could probably bump doing my ppl to doing an instructor course at the same time, is this worth doing over aged experience?

I am having thoughts of staying in the US as long as my M1 visa will allow and getting any sort of job within the US, are the chances any higher?

Thanks in advance.

[cefey]

Hi, Jack.

Let sort it out a bit.
First of all, if you want to become FI, you will need CPL first.

So for you it would be, PPL, CPL, CFI.

If you want to work in US as CFI, its better to go on F1 visa, that would allowed you to be in US for 2-3 years.
It will take around 8-12 months to do PPL, CPL, CFI and the rest will be instructing time.

Otherwise, it will be very hard to find job ther. You can not really work on M1 (only for like 1-2 months) and its very hard to obtain work permit in US.

[BoeingDreamer]

Opss, just a little problem, F1 visa does not allow you to work, you must be an academic student, and you can during this time gain work experience.

Getting FI job in the US as a foreigner will not be easy, getting paid would be even less easy.

You better understand what the F1 visa entitles someone to do, it is not like the old J1 visa, that are not given anymore, but where you could instruct for around 1.5 year.

Cefey, please why do you have to respond to every thread without even knowing what you are talking about. :ugh:

[FlyingForFun]

Jack,

The couple of replies so far haven't been 100% accurate. I suggest that you learn to find your way around LASORS (http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/srg_lts_LASORS%202010%20Bookmarked.pdf), and check all the requirements for anything you want to do in that document.

- First of all, your instructor rating. It is true that you can't do your FI rating at the same time as your PPL, because you will need 200 hours experience, including 150 hours as pilot in command, before you can start your FI course.

- You do not need a CPL to be an instructor. You only need a CPL if you want to be paid to instruct.

- However, you will need to do either the CPL or the ATPL written exams, regardless of whether you want to be paid or not.

If your long term aim is a career as a commercial pilot, then you should probably do the ATPL written exams. These will enable you to get a CPL, an IR, and - once you are sufficiently experienced on multi-crew aircraft - to upgrade your CPL to an ATPL. (If you did CPL exams instead of ATPL exams, you'd then either have to a) take the ATPL exams before you do your IR, which will mean you'll have to sit several of the exams twice, or b) take the IR exams before you do your IR, which won't be valid for upgrading to an ATPL, and will mean you're not eligible for a lot of jobs where ATPL exams are required by the employer.)

The only snag that I see with your plan is this: once you take your ATPL exams, you have only 3 years to get your CPL and your IR. After this, the exams stop being valid, and you'll need to re-take them. So even though you're not thinking of flying commercially for 10 years, you'll need to get an IR considerably before you actually need it in order to avoid a lot of extra work/complications later on.

Of course there is no way anyone can do anything but guess what the job market will be like in 10 years time.

On the subject of US Visas, I'm afraid I don't know enough to really comment.

Good luck!

[cefey]

BD
I know very well, what F1 visa is. And what you can do on that visa.
I know very well what is limitation on it and what it allowed you to do.
However, it seems like you dont know. But still trying to argue (for no reason) and trying to prove something (Im not sure, that even u know, what you trying to prove here).

Ok, lets play a game.
Ill ask, you answer. Simple, question and I want simple answers from you.

If I go to US, to conduct flight training. Im planing to obtain PPL, CPL, CFI and later on IR.
The school you are planing to train with, can issue me F1 visa, for 2 years.
So, will I be able to instruct and return home with around 1000hours or not?

Just yes or now, no BS plz.

[BoeingDreamer]

F1 visa, you will have to also do an academic program, which is normally for 3 or 4 years.

[BoeingDreamer]

http://www.pprune.org/professional-pilot-training-includes-ground-studies/332327-usa-pilot-training-f1-student-visa.html


Doing your flight training in the USA, then and now [Archive] - PPRuNe Forums (http://static.pprune.org/archive/index.php/t-399717.html)

[cefey]

FlyingForFun

I was commenting on FAA reg. since Jack was asking about job in US aaand because I dont know JAA that well :D

anyhow:
Sec. 61.183
Eligibility requirements.
To be eligible for a flight instructor certificate or rating a person must:
(a) Be at least 18 years of age;
(b) Be able to read, speak, write, and understand the English language. If the applicant is unable to meet one of these requirements due to medical reasons, then the Administrator may place such operating limitations on that applicant's flight instructor certificate as are necessary;
(c) Hold either a commercial pilot certificate or airline transport pilot certificate with:


BD
You was claiming, you knew all about F1 (well, at least saying I didnt knew anything).
Why could you not answer very simple "yes" or "no" question?
I particularly asked you, no bs, just yes or no. How hard can it be?!

F-1 Visa for Flight Training Students - Aviator Flight Training College (http://www.aviator.edu/129/section.aspx/26/post/f-1-visa-for-flight-training-students)

please, tell that school (I can link you many others as well), they can not issue F1 visa. Tell them that all student on F1 visa, that training and instructing there, is totally wrong.
As well, I can give you phone nr to friends of mine, that is in US now, doing FLIGHT TRAINING on F1. Tell them, they are stupid and they can not train there on F1.

[BoeingDreamer]

You can obtain F1 visa, but that is not for flight training only, you must do a degree program.

Furthermore you should be very carefull what schools write on their websites to attract students, I have observed sales campaigns from Delta Academy, full of half lies.
In the US now there are so many unemployed FI's, that they will normally get priority.


In the United States, the F visas are a type of non-immigrant student visa that allows foreigners to pursue education (academic studies and/or language training programs) in the United States. F-1 visas are only issued in U.S. embassies and consulates outside the United States. Prospective F-1 students must apply at the schools and receive a form I-20 in order to apply for an F-1 visa. F-1 students must show that they are able to support themselves during their stay in the U.S., as their opportunities for legal employment are quite limited. F-2 visas are given to dependents of an F-1 student.

Except for on-campus employment of 20 hours a week or less, F-1 students are generally not permitted to work in the U.S. without prior authorization from Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS). However, the USCIS may grant work authorization for Curricular Practical Training (CPT) and Optional Practical Training (OPT).

Curricular Practical Training (CPT) is temporary employment authorization for non-immigrant students in the United States while enrolled in a college-level degree program.
CPT permission is granted through the institution's International Students Office or equivalent upon approval of advisor, pursuant to regulations established by United States Citizenship and Immigration Services.


Now this might seem complicated, and it is. There is very big chance that your friends are working illegally, as the practical work much be directly related to your course. And I doubt these flight schools would go to to much paperwork to sort out all this, because there are already loads of FI's without work.

For flight training you will normally need first the M1 visa, then you can start a degree program normally 3 to 4 years, for this you can get F1 visa, which gives you limited rights to work. Or you can en-roll full time degree program with F1 visa, and do flight training extra of your degree program. But your original F1 visa is not for flight training itself.

A student wishing to attend a university or other academic institution in the United States requires a student (F-1) visa.
This also normally requires a proper interview at the US embassy and you will need to provide required documentation for this.

http://www.pprune.org/professional-pilot-training-includes-ground-studies/418519-m1-visa-no-visa-sevis-approved-schools-usa.html

A change of status to M-1 or F-1 is permitted once the candidate has entered the US, only if the candidate applies prior to enrolling in and attending a flight-training course.

Only FAA Certificated Part 141 and/or 142 schools approved and participating in SEVIS program are authorized to issue an I-20 form to a prospective student upon enrollment into a course; the prospective student must request the change of status and receive the subsequent Student Visa.

FAA Part 61 schools and independent flight instructors MAY train a foreign national, if that alien is (a) a Legal Permanent Resident or in a work status (H-type visa) with extended stay privileges or (b) a refugee in Asylum status with appropriate DHS documentation.

FAA Part 61 schools and independent flight instructors MAY train a foreign national on an F-1 (academic visa) provided that the student is enrolled and attending the college or university as shown on the F-1 and the student has notified SEVIS of the additional training being received at a non-SEVIS approved school.

F-1 Student Visa Eligibility Requirements: An applicant for a United States student visa must come to the United States to pursue an academic program in an institution recognized by the United States government. The foreign citizen must have a valid educational purpose for coming to the United States and be a full time student. It is not possible to be a part-time student on an F-1 Visa. The student can stay in the United States for as long as he/she is enrolled in school. The F-1 student visa is normally issued at a U.S. Embassy or Consulate in the student’s home country.

Flight training itself is not a valid academic program!

[KAG]

Hi Jack, I am now a little concerned with the lack of jobs threads and severely depressed people
You won't like it, but most of the people posting here are wannabes or experienced pilots, so it would be a raisonnable guess to say that most people who got depressed, who gave up, who came back to their first career, who have no hope anymore, in debts... don't even bother writing here. When people are "successful", or want to be, they tend to share a bit more than when they quit or "fail".
So what you can read from some "depressed" people here is probabely only the top of the iceberg.



I would however like it to end up in a career perhaps in 10 years time after gaining a good few hours and years.
Most of the organisation/administration in the world (like Eurocontrol or the US army for example) are starting to consider a fuel shortage (and fuel speculation to happen well before) in 2020-2030. Sure, we can ignore it. But what does it make us by doing so?
The result on aviation is uncertain, but it would be foolish to say that's a good thing.
So you are speaking about 10 years? Enjoy them, those next 10 years. They maybe the best ones for us concerning the future.

[cefey]

BD
please delete your last post and dont confuse people.
F1 is academic degree, yes. But those flight school than can issue F1, is approved as "academic" schools.
Otherwise, they would not be able to issue F1 visa.

In most cases, you have to do PPL, CPL ME IR, CFII MEI and maybe JAA fATPL
Like if you have FAA CPL IR and you want to go to US to do your ME, CFII MEI, school will NOT be able to issue you F1. There is certain limitation.

But to make it easier, F1 is a "new J1". For 90% of flight students, it will apply same way as J1 did.
I put down a lot of research on that issue, about a year ago. My main source of info was .gov sites, and not school site. So F1 is indeed "new" J1.

M1 could work as well, but not if you want to do CFI and get some hours. Now, I dont remember exactly, but M1 allowed you to do "practical training", but its only 10-20% of time you spend on training. With other words:
you use 12 months to get CFII MEI, you can work as CFII for about month or two.

About CFI jobs in US. Most people I know, that had around a year on their visa and had CFII, did get their jobs. I know for some people it took like 2-3 months before they got any luck. 4-5 guys had to fly for free (but they got all that experience and flight hours).
But many many other got their jobs. I would say, around 95% got jobs. That for people that I know.
Most of the schools will either employe you, or will assist you do get a job. Especially "european" schools, like EFT, OFT, PIA. They have many european students and like to have them as instructors.
Instructors can work there only for a year (then visa expires), so it always new openings.
2nd reason is because they do offer transition to JAA. For that they need JAA instructors. Not too many people in US have JAA CFI and cant get a job.

All that is from my experience (a year ago) and several friends, classmates of mine, some of them is still in US.

[zondaracer]

4-5 guys had to fly for free (but they got all that experience and flight hours)

That's messed up