I don't study trigonometry!

[Jerry Lee]

I don't study trigonometry at school...
Next year will be my last school year, I won't study trigonometry. Will it be a problem to obtain my PPL, CPL and ATPL?

[mad_jock]

Not only trig but also calculus as well.

The second order differential equations transforming from a cartesian coordinate system to a spherical one is a bit of a bitch.

The laplace transforms are a piece of piddle though.

[Pugilistic Animus]

transforming from a cartesian coordinate system to a spherical one is a bit of a bitch.

x=rSINtheta

y=rcosTheta

:8

[Piltdown Man]

Unfortunately, I don't think your lack of trigonometry will be your biggest problem...

[TheChitterneFlyer]

I can guarantee that it will be a problem!

[BEagle]

How on earth can someone have reached the age of 18 yet never have studied trigonometry?

I think that I was about 13 when I was first taught trigonometry....

What is taught at school these days?

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

You would not believe what isn't taught these days, BEagle. I quit my teaching job and emigrated I was so p#ssed off.

pm me Jerry if you need help with the Laplace Transforms. I'm lecturing on these this week!

[simflea404]

You are going to have problems with Navigation if you have not learnt basic trig. Not sure if Laplace would get you anywhere (even if you did know it) since it is more for control theory and autopilots...and assumes you know a tadge more than basic trig...especially if you go negative and fall into the Fourier route....this is basic undergraduate stuff though.

I suggest you get some basic trig theory under your belt...enough for basic navigation with wind at least...doubt you will pass your basic training without it....Doubt you would pass an old UK "O" level without it either...but that is another story...

[Genghis the Engineer]

This should cover it..

G

[maximus610]

Try this:

OATmedia Products (http://www.oatmedia.com/proddetail.asp?prod=EM_)

It helped me much.

[Pugilistic Animus]

for actual flying, no you really don't need trig...just remember to turn left for the shortest distance around to lesser heading and right for a greater heading...there's no math in aviation...just figuring...but your employer may see things differently...:)

for those interested though...here's some math

http://www.pprune.org/jet-blast/417410-math-question-need-formula.html

Green's theorem...curl, flux, divergence the Laplacian, the Legendrian...dot product,.. cross product...will be of little help at altitude though...:p
quote]but nobody ever told me what calculus, sorry the calculus was for.well since I got myself into this fine mess:\

well in short 1. differential calculus...when you have a linear function f(x) in the form y=mx+B, where m =the slope, y2-y1/x2 -x1 ...at any point on the line the slope 'm' remains constant...but as many items in nature are not linear but vary in a non-linear fashion such as Sinx or a logarithmic function, non linear acceleration...etc...

in that case on has to use the derivative which is a slope to a Tangent at any point on the curve that value is the instantaneous value that you would obtain and the slope 'm' becomes dy/dx in stead of delta as the change in 'x' becomes very very small

I think it might be too much to get into concavity, second derivatives, min and max points...etc.. as I don't have a blackboard and it will be mumbo jumbo :uhoh:

the process: certain key derivatives must be memorized [or derived:\]

remembering that y=the function f(x)

they are:

d/dx (a )===a constant = 0 m = constant the slope value must be zero:)

d/dx X^n = (nx^n-1) i.e d/dx ( X^3 ) =3X^2 ='m'

d/dx (e^x) = e^x [itself]

d/dx lnx =1/x ...........[lnx]= natural log

d/dx 1/x =lnx

d/dx sinx =cosx

d/dx cosx =-sinx another way to symbolize derivative 'm' is f(x) with a prime = d (f(x)/dx or now that's ALL that should be memorized ---if interest continues I'll do the 'chain rule' the product rule, and the quotient rule and explain 'u'

questions?

and I hate math...:ouch:
:8:8:8:}

[mad_jock]

i was never very good at pie in the sky math.

Its was only when engineering showed me what it was good for that it became obvious.

Calculus works out the area under a graph, we use it for loadings on a beam working out energy in a system. And also allows you to pull data from individual points inrespect to other variables. eg you have a graph showing the distance travelled down a runway along with the time you can work out the speed, the accel at any point you like.

laplace is used for control but you can use it for pretty much everything if it takes your fancy.

And pug you have missed out a dimension in your spherical :p

[TheChitterneFlyer]

Thats all Bxxxxxxks!!!! I've just finshed my ATPL's!!!

"Clever clogs"

[BillieBob]

Jerry Lee - Ignore the rather unseemly pi$$ing contest about calculus, which is entirely irrelevant to a successful aviation career. On the other hand, you will find it extremely difficult to understand the fundamentals of DR navigation without a working knowledge of trigonometry. On the positive side, trigonometry is not a difficult concept to understand and Ghengis's recommendation should tell you all that you need to know.

[SW1]

SOHCAHTOA. The only mnemonic you'll need,once you study basic trig..

[Pugilistic Animus]

Mad Jock you got me you said SPHERICAL polar Coordinates...:ouch:

x=rsin[theta]cos[phi], y=rsin[theta]sin[phi] and z=rcos[phi]

the volume element for integration thereof =r^2sin[theta]dr d[theta] d[phi]
I'm not doing ellipsoidal coordinates though:p

[mad_jock]

Don't blame you, that part of gears did my head in.

I orginally posted the calculus bit as a bit of a piss take. I do aplogise to the poster and the folk that took it seriously.

You get by day to day by being able to multiple/divide by 3 and 5. Trig doesn't come into it.

But along with some of the older posters on this thread it does fill me with a feeling of unease that youngsters are getting through there education with out the very basic principles of there physical world around them. Mathamatics in its abstract form doesn't really press my buttons. But when applied and used becomes relatively simple. Mind you the OP might be a wizz at statistics which I am ****e at and don't really understand.

[BEagle]

'A'-level (in old money) or degree level trigonmetry, advanced calculus, vector analysis or other, more estoric, branches of mathematics are not essential for an aspirant pilot.

However, basic trigonometry is needed for an understanding of the resolution of forces when studying basic principles of flight, for example.

Presumably, Jerry Lee, you do know what a 'square root' is? But you shouldn't need to be able to calculate one these days, a dark art from before even my time - although I was taught how.

[Halfwayback]

OK - great fun but I will cut Jerry a bit of slack and close the thread before we start spherical trig on an oblate spheroid (which is my particular bent with the haversine formula!)

Jerry - you got your answer. Trigonometry is useful and a basic knowledge is required.

HWB