Is this an accident waiting to happen?

[Aser]

YouTube - Brazil Helicopter Ride - barefoot lunatic pilot!
:=:=:=

Regards
Aser

[jemax]

Is that the low rotor horn at 3:17 ?!?!!!

Plus just looked at it blown up big screen, manifold pressure is miles over the limit, just unbelievable

[Nubian]

Is that the low rotor horn at 3:17

Yes it is...

And the pax didn't know how appropriate their screaming was during those push-overs:eek:

[helisdw]

Seeing as we're looking at 'interesting' R44 flights, may I offer this video that I recently came across...

YouTube - Flying Into the Wall of Rain

Bearing in mind some of the comments made in a recent thread about weather and captaincy decisions, this particular flight makes me a little nervous. I think the comments of the person that posted the video on YouTube are quite illuminating: "This one was scary! In fact it was so scary that I turned off my camera and was holding the metal bar until it was over..."

Simon

[whatsarunway]

someone should take that bare foot pilot aside and have a word with him, i would have thought flying was exciting enough for most passengers without having to show off like that, as for the lowG low RRPM manifold pressure maxed. thats just as aser said, an accident waiting to happen. . . .

[212man]

Bearing in mind some of the comments made in a recent thread about weather and captaincy decisions, this particular flight makes me a little nervous. I think the comments of the person that posted the video on YouTube are quite illuminating

Unbelievable! So many options present prior to going IMC with turbulence (instrument rated??)!!

[Scissorlink]

He should do his seat belt up so his body stays in the wreck

[mickjoebill]

No sign of life vests, maybe the Rosary beads hanging from the compass is deemed better protection!


mickjoebill

[FauxZ]

Besides all that, I see lots of floppy hats with doors off.

[Non-PC Plod]

So waht could possibly go wrong, low level over the sea in a single-engined aircraft with no lifejackets or flotation gear, wearing floppy hats, doors off and no shoes, and maxing out the engine? Looks like the perfect health & safety plan!

[P1DRIVER]

NPCP

So waht could possibly go wrong, low level over the sea in a single-engined aircraft with no lifejackets or flotation gear, wearing floppy hats, doors off and no shoes, and maxing out the engine? Looks like the perfect health & safety plan!



You missed out RAISING the Collective to the Low R rpm !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:eek:
(thats when the MAP was exceeded)


ps. No Anti Col. light on either.

P1

[helisdw]

212,

Quite agree - options appear to steadily decrease as the the flight continues. In particular, the rising ground on either side would make a 180 turn (if you believe in such a thing once in IMC) increasingly risky.

It might be the perspective of the video, or the position it is taken from, but it also appears the AI has not been set/caged - early in the clip despite apparent S+L flight, there is a definite slant in the horizon. Given the impending weather, it could prove quite instrumental (pardon the pun) in determining the outcome...

Simon

[Thomas coupling]

Why is it that people like this rub salt into the wound by not only behaving in a very unprofessional manner, but also by advertising it on YT?
It is almost as if they are desperate for attention in any shape or form no matter what the consequences.
YT must be the downfall of many an illustrious operator, surely..............:mad:

What this mode of communication (YT, or its equivalent) )has done more than anything else, is elevate the existence of such crass stupidity, magnifying what appears to be gross negligence in some corners of the GA world. Either way it brings to the front, what goes on out there.

It's akin to: are there more murders now, in this modern world, or is the reporting process of the SAME number of murders, better?

[toptobottom]

Looks like MP was at about 24/25 when the horn sounds. Maybe the pilot (sic) was gripping the collective too tightly and over-rode the governor? Which might indicate he was not quite as 'cool' as he wanted his pax to think. In other words, he was as scared as them! :eek:

[OvertHawk]

I thought the departure and arrival over the heads of folk on the beach was good as well - will give a nice soft landing when the over-pressured engine gives out!:ugh:

I think a considerably bigger Rosary is required (although that one is a useful indicator during the low-g pushovers).:}

*shakes head sadly
OH

[Cows getting bigger]

I quite liked the left hand on cyclic, right hand on door frame bit.

and the rotor rpm
and the pushovers
and the seatbelt
and the MAP limit
and
and

[SilsoeSid]

I think it is taken that this is indeed an accident waiting to happen.

So instead of simply listing the faults, would one of you Robinson chaps like to try and get in touch with the operator and express your concerns by perhaps informing them that the swiss cheese holes are lining up rapidly, before we start reading here about crashes and deaths.

It may be best to do it by e-mail so there is a message trail that the families of those killed can use to get compensation !

Thanks
SS

[Cornish Jack]

What?? Accident??? Nah - couldn't happen. Didn't you see the protective necklace thingy with the dangly bit to keep 'em safe??
However, should the unthinkable happen, couldn't happen to a nicer bunch - the Darwin Award awaits.:mad::mad::mad:

[HeloDrvr]

I agree that this needs to be brought to someone's attention, but perhaps more than the operator.
It's a little reminiscent of a certain 407 in South Africa-? that performed a few loops and rolls at an airshow.

This too is outside the normal operating envelope and as mentioned, captured many exceedances as well. Although not quite as extreme as full aerobatics, there are innocent, unknowing passengers aboard so the repurcussions could be much more unfortunate.
The 407 footage made its way to Bell and it cost the owner quite a bit of money. I heard around $1mill USD from some folks at Bell.

Perhaps, a Robinson operator on here has a good contact at the factory to send a link, anonymously or not.

[Mungo5]

On the bright side, at least when the NTSB/AAIB recover the breakage, there's bound to be an SD card in their somewhere with all the pax video on it.

Senseless.. :ugh:

[heli-cal]

This is a reply from McGreggoruk (a passenger who posted the video) to criticism left on the comments panel;



Thanks for the comments so far guys, I guess you're all saying it was a bad idea to egg him on then?! :P Hate to say this, but the guy was doing this all day long with every ride, unless the passenger's didn't want "emotion". We saw it buzzing around day after day beforehand, so I thought it must be safe enough as he hadn't fallen out of the sky by then.

I'm sure it's still being flown around like this to this day...

(P.S dont tell my wife any of this!)
McGreggoruk 1 day ago

He, (McGreggorUK) also has this to say in his You Tube Channel listing;

From: McGreggoruk | Jan 16, 2011 | 2,641 views


15th Jan 2011 - Purto Seguro, Bahia, Brazil

For a R$100 each we got a 12Km ride in a chopper off the beach. Fantastic views of the beach, mainland and sea travelling north, before turning back and scaring us all half to death.. They did ask if we wanted "emotion" or not and of course we asked for all they could give......

The helicopter is a robinson - which I've heard runs off a piston engine like a car, and I think is the cheapest helicopter to buy, which didn't fill me with confidence, but we'd seen it buzzing around for the past couple of days without much trouble. At one point after we dive low to the sea, a warning light and alarm came on for "low rpm" which you can see in the vid! I did have my heart in my mouth at that point!!!

As you can see from the vid, there's not much health and saftey in brasil, as we waited for our flight, one of the beach vendors selling kites walked right next to the helipad with 5 kites in the sky!!

Overall the best adrenaline kick for 40 quid!

At 04:46 in the video, the pilot brags "I'm a bad guy!".

[B.U.D.G.I.E]

At least the sea will be warm and there will be thousands of witnesses on the beach.

Can't believe you pay for that......:ugh:

[toptobottom]

One of the posters on YT says he's sending the clip to the Brazilian authorities, so it looks like this jerk's days are numbered :ouch:

[Matari]

The helicopter flies out of Tao Tao beach in Porto Seguro, Brazil and apparently is operated by Goldenfly Táxi Aéreo.

Search YouTube for keywords "helicoptero" and "Porto Seguro" and you will find lots of videos showing this tail number.

If you do this, you might notice that: 1). Air ops seem pretty lax, and 2). there are a lot of beautiful women in string bikinis in Brasil.

[chopjock]

I don't think this is an accident waiting to happen. Infact the pilot appeared very experienced and skillful to me. He minimised the take off and landing path over the few people on the beach, aparently he had been doing it all day and no problems with the machine or his skill. AH on the pi55, so what?. Low RRPM going off occasionally, so what? perhaps the clutch light flashed a few times too. SO WHAT? Negative G push over? now if that was true I would agree but I did not see any, looked all positive G to me.
Why is it you are all quick to judge and condem others who are harmlessly enjoying them selves. If you don't want to show boat, then don't. But please, if others do it and do it safely, as was the case here, then so what?

[helisdw]

chopjock,

I'm sure there shall be a few who will wish to disagree with your comments but I don't really want to get drawn into this particular debate as it all seems strangely reminiscent of previous threads that have generated consternation.

I'd only like to point out that the comment I made about an apparently non-functioning AH was in relation to a separate video that demonstrated an R44 heading straight into IMC.

Simon

[dragman]

Gotta get me some of those beads.

You can't throw rocks at the pilot heading towards "a wall of rain" or "IMC". There's no way you can quantify the viz from a grainy you tube posting. I'd rather be in a low viz scenario in the mountains than over flat old blighty

[lelebebbel]

Low RRPM going off occasionally, so what? perhaps the clutch light flashed a few times too.

Yeah because that is almost the same thing, aint it?
Have you ever flown a Robinson? :ugh::ugh:

There are plenty of people out here in the bush who fly like that when they start out. Some eventually get a clue, the rest of them die.

[zorab64]

chopjock - I don't know you, and don't wish to appear rude, but you've shown, in previous posts on other threads, to have what some may call "interesting" judgement. I've no desire to preach but reading, in detail, the http://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/446140-cumbria-helicopter-crash-discussion.html (which I note you made just one, rather agressive, comment on) might stand you in good stead for staying alive longer in aviation than your attitude on pprune, if taken into the air, would give hope for.

That particular thread (which has pretty much run its course) is an excellent example of everything that pprune attempts to achieve. It's brought many emotions to a height; raised numerous questions; caused professionals & amateurs to dig deep in explaining carefully how & why people choose to fly in a certain manner; will almost certainly be used to enhance CRM courses around the world; will help to educate many others with some good guidance in ways of staying alive in this wokka-wokka world; and, in the end, has brought those heightened emotions back down to a safe landing. It has NOT written the accident report, but it has already helped both experienced & less-experienced (I'd suggest in equal measure) to polish their attitude to risky flying. :ok:

The beach pilot shown on this thread, if the video was shown to his insurance assessor, would find his premiums going up at a minimum, IMHO.:eek:

How pilots choose to fly on their own is completely up to them - so long as they don't kill anyone else doing it. Your comment about taking off & landing over the beach is fine - it's not the pilots fault that the authorities obviously allow a helipad right next to sunbathers, & you should see the approach to St Maarten airport! However, if you're taking money to fly passengers, you can provide a massive thrill, responsibly, especially to anyone who's not flown in a helicopter before, with far less risk than has been shown here. I'd suggest that anyone who has a minimal understanding of the risks, would not be shelling out £40 for a possible early appointment with the grim reaper! :uhoh:

[Epiphany]

It amazes me that there always seems to be someone ready to defend the indefensible. If you had any credibility chopjock (your choice of a username indicates otherwise) then you've just lost it.

[OvertHawk]

Chop-cock! You're either taking the P!$$ or you're a dangerous nutter who i would not want flying within 50 miles of me!

OH

[Non-PC Plod]

Chopjock:

"if others do it and do it safely, as was the case here,"

I think this is the point that most people disagree with - the majority opinion is that it was done dangerously, not safely.

There is no absolute right and wrong here, just as in the case of the law, but surely you must accept that if the vast majority of people who a) express an opinion and b) have any idea of what they are talking about think that this pilot is a tadge casual as to the safety of his unsuspecting, presumably fare-paying passengers, then there is something in it?

[PO dust devil]

"That particular thread (which has pretty much run its course) is an excellent example of everything that PPRuNe attempts to achieve."


You are joking???? It's a rumour network - read the words. There are plenty of professional groups to achieve safety and constructive stuff.....this is a mere gossip site!

cheers,

DD

[Soave_Pilot]

I'm back in brazil after having lived many years abroad, and unfortunately I've found out we've got many of these idiots here, due to bad training methods/habits.

90 degree banks
low G push over
And i'll bet anything over that the a/c didnt have floats, and the jackass was flying over the water past gliding distance.
and on and on...

[Sir Niall Dementia]

Its' funny, you know, if you press the ignore button you can make chopc**k and all his stupidly inane posts go away...................

[B.U.D.G.I.E]

Well done chopchop...

You have now managed to prove that in all of your post across all of the topics you are a complete *rse.

Its amazing that when ever some one starts a good post or a decent topic of conversation you come along and make some stupid half assed comment which changes the course of the thread. Maybe the mods should send you the same place they did with philspace. Unless you are one of the same. You need to either sod off or the mods need to do their jobs a little better.
:ugh:

[zorab64]

PO Dust Devil - No, I'm not joking. Whilst you are quite correct in that this forum was, originally, a rumour network, I think you'll agree that's it has matured into something a lot more advanced than just rumour? Even now, what starts as rumour, or comment, is often based on fact and invariably attracts, or invites, further comment. Sometimes those comments are sensible - others are sadly unwise, or even foolish.

In order to assist the unwary from falling into the trap of fools, it often falls to the more professional contributors to add sensible comments or advice, to balance those with less experience &/or understanding - or even, in some cases, to shoot down the idiots! :ouch: PPRuNe benefits all when these discussions mature, as the Cumbria discussion has shown, IMHO. Yes, will be detractors and people trying to dig deeper into an issue, including press, such is the nature of an anonymous, www, forum. Sensible posters remain aware & wary, some as a result of experience, others from remembering the, red, large font warning - As these are anonymous forums the origins of the contributions may be opposite to what may be apparent. In fact the press may use it, or the unscrupulous, or sciolists*, to elicit certain reactions.

Despite this, PPRuNe has become a place where many, from the young & inexperienced to those with a lifetime in aviation, can ask & receive advice, or share experience, with more industry contributors (& sadly a few other, un-filtered, individuals) than they could expect anywhere else - & it's also worldwide and as sustainable & safe as any of your
plenty of professional groups to achieve safety and constructive stuff

Smell the roses - as an online Flight Safety forum (so long as you can read though some of the "fluff" that's posted) many regard pprune as second to none. :ok:

[yellowbird135]

I hope you all agree that should he have worn proper footware, and flying all day, it would appear as if he was wearing white socks while bragging at the bar at night.
We all know what a major turn off this is for the skimpy bikini clad girls:ugh::ugh:

[topendtorque]

I don't think that there is anything good about the video, some of us chaff a bit about officialdom when it comes to setting up and regulating commercial activities, but this clip shows why we all have to go through it.

Hopefully he will be jerked by the local authority soon. I'd love to see the sequal a youtube of the ramp check.

On the other hand even though it's no solace, at least the fringe lunatics are not confined to the IPCC and the OZ mustering industry.

Even so we here had another reminder last night on our ABC, with one Ben Tapp showing us all how not to control a helicopter - or muster cows.
tet

[nigelh]

I think you all ruin the case by over doing some of the trivial points being made . Why not just stick to the BIG safety issues and not get petty ...this is not filmed in the uK with the CAA making daft rules . I dont really care about the taking off over people on the beach , dont care about flying with the left hand ( whats wrong with that ?? If i am drinking /smoking /on phone ..i often fly with left hand . ) Even doing a steep turn is not a hanging offence ....or even flying bare foot !!!! I also think most of his flight was within distance to ditch in shallow water which is probably what you would want to do with a beach full of people .
I would not fly with him because i didnt feel he was a safe pilot.. beacause of the warning lights and push overs ...that is plenty for me !!!. The rest is not in itself dangerous , other than boing in a robinson .. ( maybe turn was a bit steep but cant prove from a video ) I would also agree that no loose clothing is a must with doors off .

[OvertHawk]

Nigel.

So you really think that taking off and landing 20 or 30 feet above the heads of people gathered on a beach is acceptable in a single? (i would't dream of doing it in a class 1 twin)

As for "within auto-rotational distance of shallow water" - you can drown quite happily in shallow water - especially if you're trapped in the wreckage of a non-float equipped helicopter or struggling around injured whilst not wearing a life-jacket!!!

Takes all kinds i suppose - just depends how much consideration you have for those around you and those flying with you.

OH

[Cows getting bigger]

Nigel, I think the point is that all the little things add-up to highlight a bigger issue.

[nigelh]

My point was that whilst not ideal it is obviously legal there ....as for the ditching i am not sure that lifejackets would be of any help just 50 mtres or so out especially with a beach full of people . The danger would be getting out which would be far easier with the doors off . So for my money i would feel safer in that situation with no lifejacket but v close to beach and with the doors off . Trying to land on the beach could well be a lot more risky not only to the pax but also the sunbathers !!
There are many more serious things to condemn him for in my opinion .

[Thomas coupling]

NigelH: as long as there are people like this brazilian pilot AND people like you who don't understand whats going on in that video (fully), there are going to be accidents and pointless loss of life.
For your passengers' sake please try to understand: FLIGHT SAFETY.
Your two example:
Taking off over persons:
The most critical time for engine failures is during takeoff. Professional pilots DON't ever take off over people GIVEN THE CHOICE.
Flying over water:
What's the difference between 2 feet of water and 200 feet of water? You drown in both. When the a/c hits the water there is a very high chance that the occupant is knocked out even for a brief moment. During that time WITHOUT a life vest, they will drown??

Please please...do your best to show us all that you deserve to be on this forum by commenting professionally.
"the rest is not dangerous other than being in a Robinson".....what's all that about? :ugh:

[Baggywrinkles]

Got to say that the most important thing is the safety of our pasengers not how big the ego is kill your self if you want but not the punters

[Thomas coupling]

what?..............

[Bravo73]

what?..............

I think what Baggywrinkles is trying to say, TC, is "that it's one thing to break the rules and fly dangerously if you are in the aircraft on your own. But please don't do this if there are also passengers on board."

[chopjock]

In case any of you did not notice, there is an area fenced off adjacent to the pad which the pilot flew out over during take off. The camera was not pointing at this space during take off but you can see it during short finals.
Funny how most of you on this thread are yes men and do not see another point of view, you only want to see what you want to see.
If this was indeed a raving nutter and has been doing this a lot, then how come he has not had an accident yet?
Could it be because he is flying the aircraft within it's limitations and his ability.
Some people like to be thrown around during a pleasure flight.

[B.U.D.G.I.E]

a raving nutter

pot kettle :D

[Thomas coupling]

Chopjock, are you and nigelh related?

Under Occupation you quote:

"rotory UAV pilot"...........

What does UAV stand for please?:uhoh:

[chopjock]

TC,
I design, build and operate robot helicopters. UAV is Unmanned Aerial Vehicle. :)
No, not related, Nigel is unknown to me.

[SilsoeSid]

About chopjock
Licence Type (eg CPL. Pilots only)
PPL(H)

Current a/c Type (eg B737. Pilots only)
H500

Location
UK

Interests
diving and flying

Occupation
rotory UAV pilot

I wonder if your disregard for safety also has you diving and flying on the same day. :E


Can someone steer me to the ignore user box please.

Found it - Go to users profile, 'user lists' under user name, add to ignore list.
Sorted

[B.U.D.G.I.E]

build and operate robot helicopters

Well that explains why you have no idea what your talking about then. Simples :D

[Bravo73]

Let me fix that for you:

TC,
I design, build and operate radio controlled helicopters.

:rolleyes:

[FSXPilot]

It's a Robbo. Only a matter of time before it crashes.

[Nubian]

Thomas coupling,

Just out of curiosity, can you explain this please?
When the a/c hits the water there is a very high chance that the occupant is knocked out even for a brief moment. During that time WITHOUT a life vest, they will drown??


As far as I have learned from various HUET courses, you need to be consius to get your ass out of the sinking helicopter(let alone inflating the jackets)
If you're ''knocked out'' on impact, I would think you'll drown with a perfectly usable lifejacket around your neck INNSIDE the helicopter.

[Thomas coupling]

Nubian,
as you will know then, inflating a life jacket under water inside the helo is prohibited in huet trng for obvious reasons. If you are unconscious under water, correct, you will drown.
However, I was attempting to respond to the scenario described by nigelh.

Landing a helo in shallow water could very easily result in the aircraft spilling the occupants out or allowing them to escape relatively quickly thereafter (rotors stopped). For those with LJ's on that jacket will prevent them from drowning if they are disorientated or can't swim. Without LJ's what do u reckon their chances are?
That, I would suggest is why the authorities (UK) require LJ's outside of autorange from the coast for pax carrying helo's.

[OvertHawk]

chopjock. Take a good look at the fenced area - then take a good look at the actual take off path (and all the people under it).:ugh: If by "Yes man" you mean someone who cares about the people who fly with him and the people around him then i happily accept that title.:ok:

[nigelh]

Silsoe . Explain to me the dangers of diving , lets say a 30 min dive to 50ft and then later in the day flying a helicopter at 500ft . I suspect that everything you spout is read from a book .

T.C. You assume too much . You may well have some experience and a lot of hours but i also fly , and have flown, with people (who are friends) who have every bit of your experience . If you wish to preach safety you should do it in such a way that people want to listen to you . The points i made were valid (according to my friends) and just because you disagree does not give you the right to be condescending .
How do you KNOW he willingly is taking off over people ?
Was there a fenced off piece ?
Is he in a position to give his job up rather than operate from that site ??
Would a life jacket help if you were inside a helicopter in 2ft of water ?
I did say i thought the overall flight was not how i would do it and was not professional ...i just was not going to get on the band wagon of picking on every misdemenour from his socks or lack of them !!!
Just remember you are NOT my commanding officer and i would ask you not to PM me again to give me a lecture as i have exactly the same right to post on here as you do !!
You may believe you know me and think i am a dangerous pilot but i would point out the following
1) I have been flying for over 30 yrs with 1 accident (due component failure) and have never been in trouble with the FAA or CAA.
2) There are a few , incl Mil instructors , on this site who have flown with me who would argue the case .
Sometimes, admittedly, i do like to wind up pumped up stuffed shirts with gold on their shoulders just for fun .

[toptobottom]

NigelH
i do like to wind up pumped up stuffed shirts with gold on their shoulders just for fun

And there are lots of them on PPRuNe - good for you!! Don't tell me TC has been PM'ing you too?! He thinks he's God's gift..

The bottom line is that this pilot (sic) unnecessarily flew out of limits, both the heli and seemingly his own. How could anyone condone it :confused:

He flew over MCP throughout, exceeded bank angles and (somehow) caused the low rpm light to illuminate. His flight was dangerous and just because he hasn't had an accident to date doesn't mean this is acceptable flying; what an absurd argument.

[chopjock]

TTB
The bottom line is that this pilot (sic) unnecessarily flew out of limits, both the heli and seemingly his own. How could anyone condone it :confused:

He flew over MCP throughout, exceeded bank angles and (somehow) caused the low rpm light to illuminate. His flight was dangerous and just because he hasn't had an accident to date doesn't mean this is acceptable flying; what an absurd argument.What is the yellow arc for on the MAP gauge? looked like the needle was in the yellow to me and nowhere near the red line and how can you tell what the bank angles were from a hand held video camera?

[XV666]

chopjock,

Along with nigelh, you seem to be defending the indefensible :ugh:

how can you tell what the bank angles were from a hand held video camera?

there's this nifty little gauge called an AH (that's pilot shorthand for an Artificial Horizon) which shows neat little things like the amount of bank that the aircraft is doing. Pretty close to 90 degrees here and there in the video :rolleyes:

Could it be because he is flying the aircraft within it's limitations and his ability.
Some people like to be thrown around during a pleasure flight.

The limitations which prohibit pushovers? Watch at about 2:50, where the beads dangling on the compass go weightless and almost disappear off the top of frame. As a non pilot, you may like to research mast bumping and the catastrophic consequences of such a manouevre.

Then try to preach on a Professional Pilot's forum that such actions are both acceptable, and desired by 'some people' :eek:

[chopjock]

heli,
In my first post I said Negative G push over? now if that was true I would agree

With regard to bank angle, where in the handbook does it state the angle of bank limitations?

As a non pilot, you may like to research mast bumping and the catastrophic consequences of such a manouevre.

Then try to preach on a Professional Pilot's forum that such actions are both acceptable, and desired by 'some people'

I am a pilot with over 2000 hrs, mostly in the avoid curve and I am not preaching.
I have not seen any limitations exceeded in this video.
The MAP is rated to 26 inches for 5 mins, the whole flight was less than that!

[B.U.D.G.I.E]

here's this nifty little gauge called an AH (that's pilot shorthand for an Artificial Horizon)

chop chop does not need to use these when the only thing he fly is a remote controlled helicopter......:yuk:

[chopjock]

chop chop does not need to use these when the only thing he fly is a remote controlled helicopter.....

Ha Ha, you are half right though. When in the avoid curve in vfr conditions I don't need the AH.:ok:

[B.U.D.G.I.E]

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3295/2407718219_f84786e8fe_z.jpg


if you look at the the yellow and red line in the pic and then look at the vid it's about the 2 o'clock position. Now that is over the limits.

Choppy just to let you know that is what the inside of a helicopter looks like. I have included a pic that of what yours looks like to comparison

http://www.rctoys.com/pr/pr-images/rc-helicopter-banner.jpg

[nigelh]

Heli ...where do i condone it ??
I dont do neg g in any helicopter and def not in a teetering head .
I dont fly outside engine limits .
I personally would not feel safe with this pilot in this machine .
Happy ?

[mhale71]

Flight manual States no aerobatic flight, which is flight above a bank angle of 60* or any abrupt inputs not necessary to the flight, i didnt see any other aircraft he was trying to dodge so hes either hallucinating or hooning.

MAP limits change depending on the weather, and have to be worked out at the beggining of the flight, theyre not always 26", and he goes way over that in the video.

I might also mention that you notice a roll to the right at about the 3 minute mark (while he is diving) this is incipient to mast bumping, if you watch his cyclic you see he counters this with a quick left cyclic which doesnt do anything until he pulls back on the stick. I think this is an excellent video to show a few students regarding several things they might regard as 'concepts' rather then guarantees . The left cyclic shows that this pilots training is totally inadequate and i wouldnt be surprised if he doesnt think he did anything wrong the whole flight.

Doors off + no seatbelt + low G = head >desk

also vne doors off = 100kts, clearly exceeded

[chopjock]

mhale71
MAP limits change depending on the weather, and have to be worked out at the beggining of the flight, theyre not always 26", and he goes way over that in the video. If you show me where in this video the MAP gauge read way over 26" I will admit I am wrong and go away.

If we assume it's a hot day and the variable MCP is 23.2 ", then add the extra 2.8" 5 minute rating, that gives up to 26" available for up to 5 minutes.
Since the whole flight was less then five minutes, that is not over the limit.
Also I never said I condone it either.

Although I concede now it did go over 100Kts, so yes that was beyond limits.

[Bravo73]

that gives up to 26" available for up to 5 minutes.
Since the whole flight was less then five minutes, that is not over the limit.
Also I never said I condone it either.


I don't think that you understand the philosophy behind the '5 minute TAKE OFF' limit.

Which, frankly, doesn't surprise me.

[XV666]

I have not seen any limitations exceeded in this video.

There are none so blind as those who will not see :sad:

Maybe have another look:

2:50, push over (contrary to section 2 Flight and Maneuver Limitations P2-5) with definite negative G indications (floating beads). See also SN-11

3:50, MAP exceeding limits (into red arc) for sustained period.

Throughout the video: MAP into Take Off Power limit when in cruise (yellow arc).

the MAP is rated to 26 inches for 5 mins

That's for take off, goose! You remind me of the Canuck I was partnered with when I found out the reason the engine was cactus was because he'd been pulling 2.5min power for 2.5 minutes, backing off for 10 seconds and starting all over again..and again..and again. Those 2000 hours of yours must have been really mechanically sympathetic :=

Altitude: SN-19, low flying over water: read it sometime?

c4:00 onward, exceeding 60° bank, approaching 90°. What was that about Aerobatic Flight Prohibited?



That'll do to be going on with :eek:

[XV666]

Heli ...where do i condone it ??
I dont do neg g in any helicopter and def not in a teetering head .
I dont fly outside engine limits .
I personally would not feel safe with this pilot in this machine .
Happy ?


Hmmmmmmmmm

The rest is not in itself dangerous , other than boing in a robinson .. (maybe turn was a bit steep but cant prove from a video)

[toptobottom]

chopjock


I agree, it is difficult to read the spinning AH and therefore determine the angle of bank, so here's an image that gives us a clue. I'd say that's about 80 degrees?


http://i851.photobucket.com/albums/ab71/prooner/bank.jpg

The Flight and Manouvre limitations in the POH states:


Aerobatic flight prohibited.
Low-G cyclic pushovers prohibited.
Avoid abrupt control inputs. They produce high fatigue stresses and could lead to a premature and catastrophic failure of a critical component.
He does all of these..

It also states:


No loose items allowed in the cabin during doors off flight.
Do not exceed 100 KIAS when operating at power above MCP
Do not exceed 100 KIAS with any door(s) removed.
Colour code for instrument markings (I can't believe I'm even typing this...).

Green : Normal operating range (maybe as he was flying so abnormally, he thought this wouldn't apply?!)
Yellow: Precautionary or special operating procedure range.
Red: Indicates operating limits. Pointer shoulkd not enter red during normal operation.

MCP at 30 degrees temp at sea level would be 23.1 plus 2.8 "for max power take off" i.e. not normal operation. He goes into the red at least once.

Why on earth would anyone think this clip shows a responsible and normal flight within R44 limits :confused:

[chopjock]

Ok I may have been mistaken. I never said it was a responsible and normal flight. I was inferring that most of you were getting on the band wagon and over exaggerating almost everything.

[XV666]

Ok I may have been mistaken. I never said it was a responsible and normal flight. I was inferring that most of you were getting on the band wagon and over exaggerating almost everything.

And let's have a look at those comments where you 'never said it was a responsible and normal flight :=

Funny how most of you on this thread are yes men and do not see another point of view, you only want to see what you want to see.
If this was indeed a raving nutter and has been doing this a lot, then how come he has not had an accident yet?
Could it be because he is flying the aircraft within it's limitations and his ability.
Some people like to be thrown around during a pleasure flight.


and

Infact the pilot appeared very experienced and skillful to me. He minimised the take off and landing path over the few people on the beach, aparently he had been doing it all day and no problems with the machine or his skill. AH on the pi55, so what?. Low RRPM going off occasionally, so what? perhaps the clutch light flashed a few times too. SO WHAT? Negative G push over? now if that was true I would agree but I did not see any, looked all positive G to me.

Not to forget

I have not seen any limitations exceeded in this video.

But the most disturbing claim, for a PPL(H) on H500's (and remote control helicopters)

I am a pilot with over 2000 hrs, mostly in the avoid curve and I am not preaching.

but there is hope: if he keeps to his promise ;)

If you show me where in this video the MAP gauge read way over 26" I will admit I am wrong and go away.

[nigelh]

Heli . you really do need to learn to read :ugh:
I would not fly with him because i didnt feel he was a safe pilot.. beacause of the warning lights and push overs ...that is plenty for me !!!. The rest is not in itself dangerous , other than boing in a robinson .. ( maybe turn was a bit steep but cant prove from a video ) I would also agree that no loose clothing is a must with doors off .

Do you still maintain that i am condoning it !!
Bored now ...he is not worth the trouble and i consider any flight in a robinson as risky anyway even without these manoevres !!

[Thomas coupling]

I gues that technically this should be subject of its own thread, but I can't be a**ed.
Instead, I'll mention it here as this thread is a perfect example of what I'm trying to say:

This thread started off quite rightly with an individual questioning a pilot with a PROFESSIONAL licence, busting limits. Very shortly thereafter, it appears to have been torpedoed by a PPL who knows very very little about the trade in general never mind anything about a CPL/ATPL doing his job incorrectly.

Other PPL's have commented causing additional distractions. This even leads to arguments breaking out about who has the biggest chopper!! I have noticed this across several threads inside "rotorheads". (The MW crash being the perfect example).

My question is...pprune specifically categorises the PPL and the professional pilot as two separate entities:

Wannabes Forums
Forums for those aspiring to join our fraternity of professional aviators with the best view in the house. Please use the Private Flying forum for initial PPL issues and anything not connected with professional licences.

and:

Rotorheads A haven for professional helicopter pilots to discuss the things that affect them..

Should this be strictly adhered to, or is it time for a review by Pprune re: definitions?

Many of us (CPL's and ATPL's) seem to spend an inordinate amount of time going over old ground explaining principles of flight / flight safety / aerodynamics / airmanship issues time and time again, instead of concentrating on the main topic.

I agree, there is always room for PPL's to pop in now and again and observe, possibly even offer the odd comment but on occasion like this thread here with chopjock et al, it can detract significantly from enjoying the main course!!
Comments? (professional pilots only please :=)

[Epiphany]

Good point TC. It is a real pity that some PPL's with a chip on their shoulders muddy the waters for other PPL's who are keen to learn and contribute to the forum.

Maybe it is a sign of the times or the fact that many of us came through the military training system. If I were a beginner/learner/amateur/apprentice in any profession or skill I would not dream of trying to tell the professionals/skilled/qualified how to do their jobs. 'Ears open, trap closed, listen and learn' was drummed into me.

I wonder if some of the PPL contributors to this particular thread would be quite so vocal without the anonymity provided and absence of public ridicule?

I have been flying for 30 years, have 10,000 helicopter hours, an ATPL(H), 14 different type ratings and have flown most types of helicopter operations in many part of the world. I feel that gives me the right to comment on many topics on Rotorheads - but only those I have direct experience of.

I also have a PPL(A) but you won't find me commenting on any airline forum telling A380 Captains how to fly - or telling a radio controlled UAV helicopter 'pilot' how to fly his model - because I have no frigging idea.

[Lord Spandex Masher]

That's ok Epiphany, neither have most Airbus pilots.

[Readyornot]

Lets put this into context....

(Hypothetically) You get on your British Airways flight, in the trusted hands of a pilot. Whilst taking off along the runway he decides he fancies a change of scenery and goes for the grass strip option, then climbs to 1,000ft and has a go at a stall turn, after then levelling off at 20ft he orders a hostess to release the main passenger door because it's too hot, he turns off the seatbelt sign and goes for a 90 degree left bank, then carries on to your destination with much of the same.

If this actually happened it would be on the front page of every paper, the pilot would be in prison and the company would be in the bin. Why when it happens in the rotary world, is it a completely different story?

[Epiphany]

Quite right your Lordship - but I still wouldn't dream of telling them that.

[CRAZYBROADSWORD]

looking at the AH in the picture posted I would say that was more like 45 degrees not 80 as the first 3 bars are at ten are degree markings then the next one which is where it looks to be just over is 45 . as someone who has taken both R22's and 44's to about 110 degrees if done right thats not a problem. on the whole the flight was a bit on the risky side for the low rpm maps limits etc also doing those kind of maneuvers over the sea can lead to disorientation but as the weather looks stunning I doubt that would be a problem. My real issue with this is the people on bored don't know any better and as a pilot you have a duty of care for your passengers no matter weather it's private or public , if they knew the pilot and the risks then let them crack on its their lives not yours but I doubt they did hence not on really..

[nigelh]

As a CPL CFI i guess i,m still allowed in then :ok: I agree ...i think all those dangerous ignorant ppl,s should have their own ppl site and should only be allowed to read what us pro,s have to say . Maybe they could comment during one hour each week and we can all have a giggle at how stupid and dangerous they are :ok: And i vote TC to be the Chief !!
but dont forget who paid for all your training etc you Mil pilots ..........the unwashed ppl,s may want pay back !!!

[SilsoeSid]

looking at the AH in the picture posted I would say that was more like 45 degrees not 80 as the first 3 bars are at ten are degree markings then the next one which is where it looks to be just over is 45 .

http://i851.photobucket.com/albums/ab71/prooner/bank.jpg

Is the horizon not the apparent line that separates earth from sky on your planet Crazybroadsword? Perhaps the aircrafts windscreen centre pillar isn't vertical either :ugh:


http://www.avbuyer.com/images/AircraftImages/24208.1.1.jpg


May I suggest that you get a protractor and place it on your monitor :rolleyes:

[Epiphany]

OK nigelh I will amend my post thus:

It is a real pity that some PPL's (and CPL(H) CFI's) with a chip on their shoulders

[SilsoeSid]

Nige,

Ignorant and dangerous doesn't just apply to PPLs, we all know that thanks.

Once again people like you turn threads into a PPL v CPL argument and if not that, a Mil v Civ argument. Most of us have no axes to grind, yet there are some that like to persistently like to vent their spleen here. We all know you have a chip on each shoulder, a PPL/CPL chip and a Mil/Civ chip, so at least you are balanced (verification needed)

The record is old and repetitive, get into iTunes please, FFS.

Back to my first line, "Ignorant and dangerous doesn't just apply to PPLs", remember those days at GSM ;)

[MikeNYC]

I don't know how one could argue this is 45 degrees or less bank (from about 2:40 in the vid)...

http://img1.uploadscreenshot.com/images/main/3/8816063194.png

[nigelh]

Silsoe ..i agree with your first point ...it is one i have been making so no surprise there !!
As for a chip re PPL v CPL .....as a CPL i am generally sticking up for PPL,s .......so how does the chip work ? Do i wish i had a PPL ? Well i have one AND a CPL !!! As for Mil ...well most of my best pilot friends are Mil and give as good as they get !!
You still havent pointed out how it is dangerous to dive and fly on the same day .....but to answer you ...i dont think it would be dangerous if you know how deep and long you have dived and then how high you will be flying ...and as sport diving doesnt require any decompression i think it would be totally safe to do both !! ( let me know if you find out otherwise but i do know that diving accidents are often transported by helicopter low level )
As for GSM .....( A heli crop spraying company that was based near Ripon ) I had a lot of fun helping run it and managing the "Egypt Operation ". Things were nicer in the helicopter world in those days ...less traffic , less pilots with less rules and less egos . Only good thing i suppose is that it is safer today and more professional .

[heli-cal]

SilsoeSid said;

Is the horizon not the apparent line that separates earth from sky on your planet Crazybroadsword?

Rarely have I had the pleasure of reading such a terrific response... I almost sprayed the laptop with Earl Grey! :ok: :D

Simply brilliant! http://i666.photobucket.com/albums/vv29/helixpteron/happy0054.gif

[SuperF]

Obviously all of you guys are from way up the top end of the world. In brazil the horizon slopes about 40 deg, so only a 45 deg bank....

Down under the horizon is 90 deg out, so we are fine whatever we do.:E

Don't think that it only happens in third world countries. I know of a few supposedly first world operators who give the same sort of rides. But, do you go to Brazil and expect the same level of safety in anything as at home?

Ps professional just means you get paid for it, doesn't it? Not that you have to be any good. Although being good probably helps.

[Tarman]

"Ps professional just means you get paid for it, doesn't it? Not that you have to be any good. Although being good probably helps."

Well "said" that man !

Being professional also means that you're very important and that lessor mortals should be seen but not heard.

Most ppl(h) pilots are good at their main source of employment hence they can afford to fly for leisure. But they are clearly idiots that should be ignored on here. (even if they have thousands of hours on a type when a professional has none)



Tarman PPL(H)

[tony 1969]

With regards to the MAP limits.. well past red line just after horn comes on,
Surely in an ASTRO isn't it MCP plus 1.6" (not 2.8")
Argue all you like about limits, Low G, flight over people/water, the question is "Whilst on holiday in Brazil would you go for (or let your loved ones go for) a flight with this guy?"

[Epiphany]

they (PPL's) are clearly idiots that should be ignored on here.

I have no idea if you consider yourself an idiot Tarman but I have decided not to ignore you. I don't intend to get into a them and us slanging match and I am sure that neither did TC but you may well be one of the lunatic fringe who make it difficult for other PPL's to be taken seriously.

Professional does not only refer to being paid to do a job it is also an attitude - grow up.

[SilsoeSid]

Crazybroadsword;

looking at the AH in the picture posted I would say that was more like 45 degrees not 80 as the first 3 bars are at ten are degree markings then the next one which is where it looks to be just over is 45 .

Now I'm no R44 pilot like yourself, and therefore cannot talk with any authority on type, but I don't think you are looking at the AH. Could it be that you are referring to the turn and slip indicator?.....

...which is pretty scary should you ever have to rely on your instruments :eek:

[toptobottom]

Tarman

I try and filter out most of the ego driven nonsense on this forum, but your last contribution was, without doubt, the most obscure and worrying statement I've read in a very long time! "All PPL(H)s are idiots"?! And then you label yourself as a PPL(H)? It'd be funny if it wasn't serious.

Priceless!! :D

TTB

[Thomas coupling]

T2B, I think you'll find that's not his inference....read it again and then wait for the light to go on:O

[estepo]

I'm most interested in the postscript to this.

I'm not holding my breath for the pilot to stick his hand up on this forum, but it would be fascinating to know whether he'll get to keep his job.........

[Whirlygig]

It'd be funny if it wasn't serious. Bloomin' 'eck ... I could see Tarman's tongue in his cheek from North Norfolk!

Cheers

Whirls

[Ready2Fly]

...and a hint of sarcasm.

[Thomas coupling]

The question is: is someone going to report him?

[Thomas coupling]

Estepo: The questionis: is someone going to report him?

[reversethrottle]

Just quietly, you guys who are shooting down PPL's do realise don't you that a lot of them are ex CPL/ATPL (with many thousands of hours of professional flying in their logbooks) but no longer hold these licenses for medical or other reasons?

I realise you are probably referring to PPL's who have never held one of those licenses but please don't throw all PPL's in the same putrid pool.

Is their input any less valuable? I think not. The point was made that 'professional' is an attitude. I hope I'm not the only one who agrees. It isn't the license that makes one professional, as this video (along with too many others) so vividly shows.

[nigelh]

Please dont ruin this by being reasonable and sensible ...it is utterly unpprunish and no fun . You HAVE to slag someone off here or havent you got that yet :ugh:
All civvy ppl,s are badly trained , dangerous and fly robbos ...fact .

[reversethrottle]

Nigel - thanks for the tip, I'll try to be more tongue-in-cheek from here on in ;) Reasonable and sensible? Good grief - how dare you - I'm as dodgy as the next pilot.

[toptobottom]

TC
Read it again. Light now on. I think my sensitivity meter was set too high :O

[Epiphany]

It was waaay too subtle for me Whirls. I suppose I should now downgrade my vastly superior ATPL(H) for one of those dodgy PPL things and join the great unwashed and uninformed as self-flagellation? Well - just for a short time.

[Whirlygig]

self-flagellation?or maybe just a pleasure flight in an R44 could do it? :p

Cheers

Whirls

[Sir Niall Dementia]

Having been in an R22 and an R44 I found absolutely no pleasure in flying either:E

[Thomas coupling]

Oh dear, I knew this would happen. The subject matter of this thread has been blown off course.

It, atleast has stirred some people into action, some who have been lying in the weeds for years and decided to flicker into life :zzz:
Good to see.
But reversethrottle is right, there are PPL's and there are PPL's. I should have been more succinct, thank you reversethrottle.
I was targetting the ab initio PPL's who have NEVER held a professional licence.
No matter how many hours they have, it is the equivalent of A levels compared to a PhD in aviation. Of course there are bad apples in all fraternity's, but on the whole, the CPL's onward have a broader understanding of aviation and all that it encompasses. Met, human factors, law, aeodynamics etc.
They are not a better person for it, but they are wiser in the art.
There are PPL's out there who simply want to fly for leisure and have no intention of going through the pain barrier of a CPL(IR) etc. That's is perfectly acceptable, but they have to understand, that their level of knowledge is at best a voluntary level and not compulsory as required by the CAA for CPL standards. Invariably the CPL doesn't stay that way for too long, they move to the next level which cannot be short circuited - ATPL. To achieve this standard, the main ingredient is experience under discipline, which separates the similarly experienced PPL who has simply amassed their thousand+ hours pleasure flying the same routines and inevitably on sunny days too.

To those PPL's out there who were previously professional pilots and to those abo's who wish to learn - apologies - join the debate, but I think you'll notice the detractors are often the ones who are the puddle jumpers popping in to air their inadequacies. If this causes consternation amongst the great unwashed, can i suggest you start a fresh thread and leave this one to run its course? :ouch:

[nigelh]

TC you said ... pleasure flying the same routines and inevitably on sunny days too.
I guess you dont live in Yorkshire then :eek: or Scotland :eek: I think you will find there are a lot of ppl,s who fly in the same bad weather as the rest of you . And just like the rest of you they learn to judge how bad it needs to be before the bin it . This comes with experience ...nothing else . I dont believe you can learn that from a caa book .
Anyway good to hear an apology from you for your blanket accusation !!
I do accept that the presence of a CP is something ppl,s usually dont have access to and i was very lucky to have Dick Meston as my CP and i still used to call him for advice years after he stopped working with me . ( yes he was Mil !!)

[CRAZYBROADSWORD]

what's a turn and slip indicator ??? that an aeroplane thing ??

[Epiphany]

Over to you nigelh - as you are the clever one. Please inform this PPL Flying Instructor what a turn and slip indicator is.

[reversethrottle]

Oh boy...if (and I do mean "if") CRAZYBROADSWORD's comment is a genuine question then you chaps in the UK have some serious problems. Epiphany - I'm with you, lets give Nigelh a chance to tackle this one. This thread is getting more hilarious by the day.

TC - You're welcome.

[herman the crab]

Well what do you expect - I mean aren't all those PPL type CAA licence holders and not FAA ones?

Seen some horrendous flying by some UK types out here in California... :E:E:E

HTC

















Well its a X verse Y that no one mentioned yet! ;)

[Heliport]

reversethrottle Just quietly, you guys who are shooting down PPL's do realise don't you that a lot of them are ex CPL/ATPL (with many thousands of hours of professional flying in their logbooks) but no longer hold these licenses for medical or other reasons?

There are many very experienced former CPLs/ATPLs on the forum who have retired for medical or other reasons. There may be a few who are now PPLs, and describe themselves as such, but not "a lot".


H.

[reversethrottle]

Heliport - ok, understood. I was merely trying to make a point.

[Heliport]

I know. ;)
Just setting the record straight in case anyone took your post literally.

[zorab64]

Epiphany - 'Ears open, trap closed, listen and learn' was drummed into me.
and one of my similar mantras has always been "you have two ears & one mouth - consider using them in that proportion"!

Of course, if translated to a forum such as this, when we have two eyes and ten typing digits - any similarity to "two ears" really needs to be inverted, although quite often isn't on this forum :ugh: !!

I feel we should also refer honourable members to the thread I mentioned earlier - http://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/446140-cumbria-helicopter-crash-discussion.html as an example of heated, but now cooled, discussion between those who are prepared to learn, those prepared to share their experience, and those who like to spout off - be they experienced or not! As has been mentioned, all are welcome to post, but an element of balance, rather than vitriol, should be exercised.

Defending the indefensible, and living an upright existence at a 40 deg tilt, are all recipes for disaster, IMHO! :\

[henra]

After all this fierce fighting between ATPL, CPL and PPL I would like to get back to the topic itslef, looking more from a technical side at it.

Let's have a look at the single exceedances:
My personal ranking (from lightest to most severe) would be roughly as follows:

- Flying barefoot: I would not consider that exceedingly dangerous, although it is probably not a very good idea. At least it does not improve the personal crashworthiness. Wearing Flip-Flops would definitely be worse...

- Exceeding bank angle: Probably the most visible and spectacular excedance but from a purely technical side I would not consider it extremely dangerous. He did keep MAP in a reasonable range while doing so, which means neither losing RRPM nor unloading the disc, just trading altitude for bank. Enough altitude available, no obstacles, good visibility, therefore probably also not too dangerous in the given case.

- Flying a SE Piston w/o floats over water outside gliderange to shore:
Again not a very good idea, in the particular case somewhat alleviated by warm water and doors off, so people should have a reasonable chance of exiting the Helo and swimming to shore.

- Low RRPM Horn going off: In this particular instance maybe not that critical (reason for it being a bit unclear and only briefly), otherwise extremely dangerous in a Robbie (and any other Helo for that matter)

- Exceeding 100kts with doors off: If not exceeding by a big margin and in calm weather conditions this should not cause an immediate accident, however due to increased vibration it will not do the machine any good.

- Fly with doors open, having unsecure items in the cabin (e.g. loose hats): Not a good idea: Flying w/o tailrotor is no fun, especially when no suitable AR site is available.

- Exceeding MAP: Not necessarily instantly dangerous but definitely not doing the engine any good. The next unsuspecting pilot (and passengers) may have to pay the price...

- Doing a Pushover: This is for me really the highlight of these 5 minutes.
Doing this in a teetering Rotor Heli (especially a Robbie with low inertia Fuselage and Rotor, which can tilt violently when unloaded) I consider this attempted suicide.

Each single of those excedance (with the exception of the last one which can be instantly fatal) is perhaps not extremely dangerous, but doing all this in less than 5 minutes is simply amazing. Most responsible pilots will not accumulate this list of exceedances in their whole flying career....

So, to sum my personal take on this piece of art up:

This pilot will sooner or later appear in one of the famous databases.

[chopjock]

henra,
I have to say I completely agree with your post. That was a well balanced, lucid and logical response, analyzing both sides of the argument. :ok:

[nigelh]

Henra .....honestly what are you trying to do :ugh: You come onto this thread without an invitation from those of us with proper professional licences ( i,m talking people with lots of stripes and white gloves ), and quite frankly you have ruined it :{
You put forward a logical list of faults ranked by their severity ...you quite accurately assess the risk for each ......you dont have a dig at ppl,s ( morons ) and you dont abuse our Chief ( Top Cat ).
Your no fun ...spoilsport.

Epitaph ....turn and slip .....i dont think i,ve got one ( only just taken delivery of new heli ) but will have a look next time i get in ....!! and i,m not that clever ...just in comparison to you :ok:

[EN48]

without an invitation from those of us with proper professional licence

Sorry, cant resist:

PROFESSIONAL = flies with knowledge, skill, judgment and awareness

Doesnt matter what it says on a piece of paper. Some pilots get paid to do this; many others do this without pay, and many get paid who dont/cant do this. :ok:

[Epiphany]

Yes nigelh, and some people are complete tossers regardless of what licence they hold.

[theavionicsbloke]

I can't believe the amount of poor airmanship demonstrated in this video.

The equation is simple. Fly an R22 & 44 (or any other aircraft for that matter) in accordance with the Flight Manual, basic and type training instruction and you will remain perfectly safe. Step outside of this and your life expectancy (certainly career) will be considerably reduced. Show the machine a healthy respect, otherwise it will bite!, hard!!.

This type of behaviour will catch up with this guy eventually, in some form or another. Lets hope it's in a form other than the premature curtailment of his life.

[B.U.D.G.I.E]

I have to say I completely agree with your post.

Nice try choppy you never thought we would fall for that one on april fools day :O

[nigelh]

Epitaph ....i think you have proved your point admirably :ok:

[Epiphany]

Then you must be very perceptive. Congratulations.

[2papabravo]

Apologies if this is posted already....

But here's another one to throw into the pot!!! Enjoy...

LiveLeak.com - Helicopter Flying Skills (http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=7b8_1301852848)

:ok:

[krypton_john]

Not so bad, was it?

[Bravo73]

But here's another one to throw into the pot!!! Enjoy...


Completely different kettle of fish, 2PB.

Obviously very low in places, but not necessarily dangerous. Was probably(/maybe!) a very well recced route (ie no wires), very remote, always had a potential reject, outside of the h/v curve etc etc.

[Nubian]

If folks don't see the diffrence in those two videos, it is no surprise that some threads on this forum becomes amusing reading...

Judging from the scenery, I would ''guess'' it's not the UK... so, no point of contacting the CAA then... bummer!

[2papabravo]

Oh totally agree that its not in the same band as our Brazilian counterpart.

But you have to admit, still a few questionable points to raise.

Just because you're out of the hv band, doesn't make you invincible. I don't know the aircraft type but if its a single and your engine farts at that height, you need good skills to put the aircraft down safely, especially on that type of surface (potentially frozen river).

Increased risk of bird strikes.

Misjudgement of pilot when flaring to clear trees - you clip the disc and you could be in a world of poop.

All of this in a place where if you have an accident, rescue probably won't be fast.

Maybe I'm a kill joy, but if I want to fly like that, my pax would be informed of the risks and I certainly wouldn't have it posted on the web.

[Rotorbee]

I get more and more the impression, that we are not that good a judging risks. All of our flight instructors hammered the same old stories in our brains. Be aware of the engine failure! Only, the risk of having an engine failure is rather low. Especially in an R44 or in the big ships. Hitting something is the main reason for accidents today. Pilots all over the world are half of their flying time inside the dead mans curve and they do not fall from the skies like flies. Far from it. I can not remember an engine failure in Switzerland, but we had quite a few accidents for other reasons. Hitting things and bad full down autos rank pretty high. (No, there is one exception, HB-XKE had a double engine failure, but the pilot accidentely turned them off).
Therefore, if there are always the same voices that tell you:"Oh my good, if you have an engine failure in that situation, you are in deep trouble!" give them a smile and point them to the statistics. If you fly low, FIRST think about hitting something. And that's a risk you can manage. It is inherently more dangerous than flying high, but it's up to you, how much risk you take.
On the other hand, our brasilian friend should loose his ticket as soon as possible for his own safety.

[chopjock]

Nubian,
I would ''guess'' it's not the UK... so, no point of contacting the CAA then... bummer

If it was in the UK, why would you want to contact the CAA ?

[Nubian]

Chopchop,

You clearly didn't get the point...

[Thomas coupling]

Provided he doesn't break rule 5 (Uk) he's fine. I suspect his worse enemy is a bird strike or someone doing the same thing coming the other way :eek:

[krypton_john]

No worries - the birds all flew south for the winter!

[SuperF]

more chance of running into a polar beer, looking at that vid.

[SilsoeSid]

Provided he doesn't break rule 5 (Uk) he's fine. I suspect his worse enemy is a bird strike or someone doing the same thing coming the other way :eek:

Must admit that my first thought was wires :ok:

[Thomas coupling]

Overall, I suspect he's done that run many times before and knows it well. Still borderline though. ESPECIALLY with pax. Thats perhaps the naughty bit :ooh:

[John Eacott]

more chance of running into a polar beer, looking at that vid.

I'd like some of that polar beer :p

http://www.fortliberty.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/polar-beer-girls.jpg

[Ready2Fly]

Some people do not even know how to spell airmanship :=

[SuperF]

Wonder want was on my mind when I typed that?:O
Wouldn't mind some of that myself...

[nigelh]

dont think they are the sort to be happy being picked in a Robbo i,m afraid .
The girls advertising irn bru or vimto might be easier impressed ....;)
Also i dont think you would get all FOUR into a robbo :eek:

[osmosis]

wonder what that tattoo is.....

[Pandalet]

Must be a real bright flash that photographer used - those girls are really squinting!

[heli-cal]

wonder what that tattoo is.....

"If you can read this..."