What do you look for in an FBO?

[silverware]

Hi all,

have been working on a small project lately, creating the most efficient/perfect virtual FBO possible by receiving input from users like us.
We all pass through them on a day-to-day basis, have to stay there for hours if we're unlucky...
I am not after a comparison between existing ones, just look for first hand experiences and opinions about the FBO as a facility itself.

What do YOU (flightdeck and cabin) find important, what do you look for when visiting an FBO, what don't you see but would love to (please keep it real...), which issues you feel aren't adressed properly, what makes you come back to the same place if you are given the choice?

I'll kick off, please feel free to add your own comments, thanx in advance!

I personally look for/appreciate:
good coffee (Nespresso)
courteous staff
a decent place to WiFi and rest, preferably away from clients
..............
...........
..........

[hollingworthp]

WiFi is VERY important

[His dudeness]

A proper place to wait for the clients.
Staff that understands what the issues are.

[604guy]

An FBO that first of all meets the needs of my pax and has the previously requested things in place upon arrival….and most of them are extremely basic. Do that and I'm likely to go back. You can have all the little niceties in the world for the crew but screw that up and you won’t see me back.

Why that is so hard for some FBO’s to understand is beyond me

[silverware]

Thanks for the input sofar guys, please keep'em coming!

[dirk85]

Wifi essential, and a DARK and SILENT room with a chaise longue or something alike that could possibly resemble a bed for those days when we have to spend many hours waiting for the passengers would be very much appreciated....

[SNS3Guppy]

What do you look for in an FBO?

Fuel, and a toilet.

Not necessarily in that order.

[Always Moving]

Fuel
WI-FI
Planning room (but with good Wi-fi most people carry their own laptop/phone/pad whatever)
Toilet
Coffee, water and some food (please skip over the high sugar for the yo-yo sugar diet some complex carbohydrates will be best and/or some veggies)
Willing to do whatever the client wants (food, rental car, limousine, whatever as long as it is somewhat legal, but if the client wants a cute girl as a translator/guide find one!)
Ice
BIG umbrellas if it COULD rain
Rest area with some TV to burn some time
Rest area QUIET to sleep (bunk beds are nice)
I have seen:
Gym with Jacuzzi, is a nice way to exercise and burn some time!
Meeting rooms

But the most important thing is willingness to do and friendly stuff

AA

PS: Hey Silverware could you tell us the webpage or would you share the end product?

[Gulfstreamaviator]

No names no pack drill, but I agree with all the points mentioned.

Please keep the suggestions coming.

Plus:
Large refigerator, to keep enroute food cold.
Microwave for crew meals reheat.

The dark room is essential, as is access to local "resort" type hotel for longer day stops.
Sponsored Hotels to be "inclusive" of breakfast, internet, plus late check out.


glf

[doubleu-anker]

Agree with all of the above.

I would like to add punctuality is important to me. If a crew calls in on the VHF and estimates chocks in 30 Min's and fuel and various other services are required on arrival, make sure they are there! If there is any anticipated delay, inform the crew! If they have a VHF freq and advertise that fact, answer the damned thing when called.

[glamourjetgirl]

* Free internet facilities
* Computer printer
* Comfy seats in quiet area (incase of a day stop without a hotel room).
* Large refridgerator
* Good communications
* Dishwasher (with a quick wash program)
* Small offering of hot & cold drinks other than just Expresso!

Always impressed with a handling agent who offers/helps to carry our crew luggage/catering to and from the a/c without being asked. :D

[controlx]

A fuel bowser on arrival as the door comes down and the chock are thrown under the wheels with a fuel guy who's all smiles - like a faithful old dog greeting you back home - not a half hour wait for some miserble git in filthy overalls who has had a personality bypass - no names

[Gulfstreamaviator]

What about washing machine, for table linens, and small iron, I agree re dishwasher, good idea.

How many times have you been told, catering is going to collect your clear ins, but will be an hour.

glf

[His dudeness]

Mostly the last half hour is what really sucks, cause there is (usually) not real place to wait - either one runs around like a tiger in cage or the like. So a sofa or two with an undisturbed view towards the driveway would be a good thing.

[glamourjetgirl]

*Would prefer to send expensive table linens to professional cleaning company (usually this is done back at base). Some a/c's I have worked on have actually carried their own travel iron in the cabin.

* Re: Washing up, had this very situation only the other week, catering company had to come and collect washing up and this was done after we had left the a/c as they took so long to arrive. The handling agent very kindly waited with my washing up until catering company arrived to collect it.

* I have found most operators do not allow/or like the washing up to go off to be washed by a catering company due to breakages and the cost factor.

Hope this info helps.

[mad_jock]

Suprised clean toilets that are stocked hasn't come up.

One or two places I can think of the front is very comfy and nice.

Go through to the toilets and you find some third world disaster zone which you would need a cold chiesel and lump hammer to shift some of the skid marks.

[Miles Magister]

Clean toilets
Changing rooms
kitchen facilities for crew to do own pax food preaparation and washing up
Fridge to store own pax catering
Ability to walk back and forth to the aircraft when you want
loan Hoovers and cleaning materials for crew to use on a/c
Free use of ground power units
Tall steps so crew can deice the tail themselves if needed

Whilst I would prefer to sleep, I seem to have spent most of my time at FBOs cleaning and preping the a/c!

[Phil Brockwell]

On a slightly parallel track.

What would you be happy to pay for the services listed. Outside the airport fees, what do you expect to be included in the handling fee, and what would be a reasonable charge for dishwasher - fridge space - drinks etc.

As an operator we are seeing more and more "service" charges for

Calling a taxi
Emptying the rubbish
Washing up
Booking hotel rooms

Etc etc.

Should FBO's have a basic price for marsalling the aircraft and charge for everything else?

[Gulfstreamaviator]

As we all know, the services provided, INCLUDED are getting smaller and smaller, as the base price must be kept acceptable. The extras make the profit.

I would expect extra charges for anything that "most users" dont need.
These do include lav service, drinking water, washing, etc.
Exclude trash disposal, (unless the local authority charge for this).

Mad Jock: toilets mentioned, but Clean is optional.

H D: A clear view from a comfortable seat to awat pax, good point.. CCTV to cover entrance drive is nice too... advance warning.

I include: dishwasher, soft drinks, coffee, tea. Fridge space, is included, for reasonable quantities.

NO charge for arranging external services, ie a few local phone calls.
We dont get a percentage from taxi companies, or hotels, but do get low cost for own staff taxi use, plus a very nice gesture, free use of local resort hotels facilities, plus a very welcome festrive season staff part, FOC.


Ability to walk to and from aircraft, is a big problem, unless operating crew, (flak jackets a must).!!!!!. Combine with distance, temperature, and native security issues. Free car to from is better, but access is only against a PASS or operating crew.

The ability to answer the RT is certainly an advantage, especially in English.....


CHOCKS......


The base price should include all items that most aircraft need.
Hoover YES, but needs a gen set, for many aircraft.
Tall steps agreed a must, and also small steps, (removal of pitot covers etc), but remember H and Safety concerns.

Whatever the package the listing should be transparent.

Payment by C.C. at aircraft, and not long treck to the airport or handling office, or worse still INVOICE to follow, with no chance to verify, or cash only in local kaputnics.


glf

[His dudeness]

One thing I forgot:

a shower...some like to exercise (what about an exercise room with some basic equipment...) and then have a shower... (at least I need to have one unless I´m in 'Ogre-mood mode')

[silverware]

Guys, gals,

you are doing me a great favour with your comments, please feel free to add on whenever you can.
I unfortunately am not at liberty (yet) to disclose a location, I hope you all understand.
Your already generous input will play a major part in determining the focal points for setting up this facility.
Meeting the needs and wishes of pax and crew isn't really rocketscience, nevertheless I still do see major issues/missed opportunities on my own visits as a crewmember when arriving at any given FBO.
We as a team just have a genuine desire to do right where others have screwed up, slipped away or completely lost their customerfocus.
Thanks once again, where ever you are, have a good weekend!

[Phil Brockwell]

OK, really honnest answers on this one.

Assume you are going to an airport with mandatory handling and only one FBO.

How much would they need to overprice their services before you were able to talk your pax into going to an airport 50 miles further away from their destination.

Phil

[silverknapper]

Hard to say Phil. I personally think it would have to be an exceptional amount.
Maybe a stupid example but regulars of ours go to one airport where parking landing etc overnight is around £850. Has been suggested they go 25 miles away where it would be £150 but they won't hear of it.
On your first point charging for hotels and taxis is a poor show I think. Especially as most FBO's also earn commission from said hotels and car companies. I haven't yet been charged for this. Yet! Same with say dishwashers. Surely it should be part of the service.

[Fullagas]

A couple gripes come to mind:
1. An FBO that has no agreements with local car rentals and crew rates at hotels. I've been to a couple like this and am amazed when it happens. I always voice my opinion to the supervisor.

2. Blase' CSRs and rampies. Complacency in these times is unacceptable.

Assume you are going to an airport with mandatory handling and only one FBO. How much would they need to overprice their services

Hmm... Why do they need to overprice their services at all? I'm sooo tired of companies doing this just because they have a monopoly.

[fogmaster]

One important aspect that is missing with most FBO's in the UK is .. 'presence' !

Most FBO's offer rooms attached to the side of dity hangers or worse, potacabins and pre-fabs that exude little or no ambience whatsoever.

Standalone, well designed FBO's, similar those operators in the USA, outwardly display the qualities that they posses on the inside....'class' !

Starbucks coffee is always a welcomed sight in a good FBO !! :ok:

[potatowings]

My 2p of what I like.

* Free crew tea, coffee, orange juice, coke, etc...
* free rubbish disposal
* free, very high speed wifi
* several (more than 2) free crew computers with printers
* separate crew room with TV, DVD's and games console
* quiet and dark crew room for rest
* fridge for catering
* free hot water for the aircraft (it does not cost 20 euros to boil a kettle)
* Ice machine
* Ample parking (if I'm based there)
* competent, friendly staff who know exactly what a business jet passenger demands.

Anyway, just a few things I like.

[Phil Brockwell]

potatowings.

When you say "free", I assume you mean included in the price?

Is there a consensus that crews would prefer an all inc handling price rather than breaking the charge down into services?

Should you pay the same for a 60 min turnaround as you would for a day on the ground drinking the FBO's coffee / coke etc, using the crew room / wifi / etc. Should there be a standard price with a discounted price for less that 90 min turnaround?


PB

[potatowings]

Of course nothing is free, and we all expect to pay.

I much prefer a built in price rather than a charge per item invoice.

Of course a quick turn can be charged at less.

This is easy to bill, if the plane is there for say 6 hours with the crew mooching around, charge a parking fee etc... this covers use of the facilities.

The best FBO I use happens to be the one I'm based at.

No charge for ice, no charge for hot water, no charge for use of the crew facilities. Not just for based aircraft, but for all visiting aircraft.

There is also complimentary snacks for the crew.

Their prices are also very competitive.

[Phil Brockwell]

potatowings,

No charge for these services - or charged for these services within the handling cost if you use them or not?

For every one who wants a higher all inclusive price - there is a company that wants itemised charges. Most crews of private aircraft want it all inclusive with lost of free stuff for the crews, most commercial operators would prefer to see what they are being charged for.

I'm sure there are many commercial operators who would question higher charges in order to supply snacks to the crew!

Without mentioning names, do you mind me asking the cost of a turnaround for a light jet at your base (for visiting - non-based aircraft) and if they are making profit?

Phil

[potatowings]

Sorry, I do not know the cost for a light jet.

I do know they make a very tidy profit.

I'm not asking for the world free, and to be honest, I don't really care. I just offered my 2p's worth.

You can offer a top class service and great facilities and not rip the client off. Take a visit to Mallorcair in Palma, they have it absolutely spot on! If every FBO in the world copied their level of dedication to excellence the world would be a better place.

What's more is they are limited by their facilities but they more than make up for it with outstanding service. Their staff are so cheerful and even when they are busy they always make sure that someone will take the time to chat to you, if you want to chat. I didn't go there for about 2 years. I walked in and the manager greeted me by name and said that he remembered me from a previous company. Now maybe they keep a database of pilots, but even if they do, such a nice touch.

Let's face it, a can of coke and a biscuit for the crew doesn't add up to £50. Why worry? If it keeps the clients coming back it is an excellent expense. A kettle of boiling water is also not £50, so why not just do it? A few nice touches like that but a slightly, and I mean slightly higher handling bill I'm sure is a fair trade off.

Some people may not like it and I can understand that too. It is just my preference, that's all. Our owner has never complained at the costs of the services we choose to use and when on charter I've never had any issues or questions from accounts. I am very conscious of cost and consider everything a penny is spent on, but since each handling cost is built into a charter price and all handling is billed to our happy owner, where's the issue. Every one in the equation can be happy. Isn't that the role of a service provider?

Ooh, one more example, KLM Jet Centers in Holland. A 'help yourself' fridge is provided with refreshments. You can even help yourself to a beer for the taxi ride to the hotel if you want. What a touch! It can be done and is done in many places. Just the some seem to have an aversion to great service and the expense of profit no doubt. The American owned Signature chain also provides light refreshments and hot water free. Often they even slip in a kilo of ice gratis. With a full crew room not so long ago, they even had the local caterers make up two trays of sandwiches for the waiting crews. Nice touches.

[3pins]

Mallorcair in Palma is as mentioned in the previous post "spot on"
Helpful staf, is the key to a great FBO in my mind.
Miguel and his team are allways willing to help.

[stuckgear]

A concrete apron. We had an aircraft overnighting at one FBO we had previously been to. However, due to some some 'warm' days, when the crew arrived to prep for departure it had sunk about 6 inches into the tar. Moving a Challenger out of the depressions was no 5 minute job. :hmm:



edit to add: Ramp security, not just from landside but also airside. Ramp rash from dip$hits bimbling around the apron is not welcome.

[stuckgear]

Phil & PotatoWings,

just as an aside to your poinst on free/built in to the price there are some very minor things that should be gratis and no need to build into the price.

Take for example, the issue of WiFi, yes it is very important in this day with communications being conducted electronically.

However, any FBO should have internet access for thier own business purposes. so what does it take to stick a wireless router in a crew room. 50quid ? heck, you can get free wifi with your 2.85 coffee in starbucks! yes an FBO could charge you for use of internet but then that just comes across as petty.

customers will pay a little more for a level of service, however they do get a little cheesed off when the cheap price invoice lists loads of chargable extras.

[julian_storey]

Pretty Swedish girls and a parrot :)

[Phil Brockwell]

Stuckgear

The problem as I see it is that an FBO cost £X to run (property / staff / infrastructure etc) and will have Y movements / tonnes etc per year. So £X divided by Y + profit = the charge to each aircraft movement / tonne.

The problem is that as movements decreased over the last 2 years FBO's are having to take more per tonne / movement to get back to their original profit plan and are doing this by charging for services rather than increasing the handling costs. Add to this the ever increasing cost of security and you are looking a significantly higher charge that the "handling quote" received.

It is not that you are really paying €15 for WiFi, it's just that WIFI is being used as a vehicle to pay towards the FBO's overhead, just like in many hotels.

Phil

[dc9-32]

Julian......not sure what I could do with a parrot but a pretty Swedish girl.........:cool:

[Martin Barnes]

Im so old now that I didnt notice the pretty swedish girl, the parrot is a noisy bastard but the ice cream is great !!!!

[PPRuNeUser0215]

A pretty girl, ice cream, a parrot ? Hey you guys don't want a piano thrown in as well do you ?

;)

[julian_storey]

A pretty girl, ice cream, a parrot ? Hey you gus don't want a piano thrown in as well do you ?

Yes! That would be the recipe for an EXCELLENT FBO :)

Probably one of the best outside of the USA :ok:

[stuckgear]

Phil, I agree with you on that. it just leaves a bad taste when one whips out one's laptop to find that wifi is a chargable extra. sometimes its the little things that can make a difference.

[Brizeguy]

An FBO that understands an aircraft needs to be serviceable to fly!
I've had to sit in many crewrooms using free internet, drinking very nice coffee etc. etc. but no agent available to escort me to the aircraft or stay with me if security says I cannot be airside alone, as I'm not crew.
If engineers had blazers and gold bars they would get airside much quicker and aircraft would spend less time on the ground. I've sat waiting when the girls are sorting fuel, catering, weather etc. and the aircraft is going nowhere until it's fixed. This may of course be deliberate as the jet is clocking up ramp time at £$£/hour.