US to stop work on GE F-35 engines

[visibility3miles]

U.S. Defense Department to Stop Work on GE Fighter Jet Engine
By Roxana Tiron and Tony Capaccio - Mar 23, 2011 7:57 PM ET

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The U.S. Defense Department is expected to issue an order tomorrow for General Electric Co. (GE) and Rolls Royce Group Plc. to halt work on the second engine for the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter.

The Pentagon’s acquisition chief, Ashton Carter, will issue a stop work order on the F136 jet engine, made by a team of GE and Rolls Royce, according to industry and defense officials who were not authorized to discuss the announcement in advance.

etc.
U.S. Defense Department to Stop Work on GE Fighter Jet Engine - Bloomberg (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-03-23/u-s-defense-department-to-stop-work-on-ge-fighter-jet-engine.html)

Mods, move to whatever forum is appropriate..

[ian16th]

.......and add this into the equation.

JSF Cost Predictions Rattle Foreign Customers | AVIATION WEEK (http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/story.jsp?id=news/awst/2011/03/21/AW_03_21_2011_p27-297530.xml&channel=defense)

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

The Canadian Government has just been found in contempt of parliament for not providing costings for, amongst other things, the F-35 purchase.
:=
First time this has ever happened in a Commonwealth country. Government will likely be voted out tomorrow.
:ouch:
F-35 program claims it's first kill!

Other country's politicians will be bricking it if this is the outcome of bad/high/non-existant costings. Given the recession (and Canada's situation is a lot better than anyone else's), this seems likely.

[Heathrow Harry]

this can't go on can it?

Time to get inthe line for the F-18 I think

[Finningley Boy]

So if this only refers to the second engine, what's the name of the first engine? And are they continuing with that one ok? If not then I suppose the project is finished.:suspect:

FB:)

[Obi Wan Russell]

Primary engine is the Pratt and Witney F-135.

[draken55]

More bad news for Rolls-Royce but not really a surprise as it's been on the cards for a while.

The P&W engine works well and seems to be one of the few things about the F-35 that does, at least at present!

If the UK ever buys the F-35C, we can't now specify a part domestic engine.

[Lonewolf_50]

draken, does that put the UK buy at risk?

[draken55]

Can't imagine it would. We will stay with the F-35 because of the promised capability and our still very significant industrial involvement with the project. If that promised capability looks in doubt, especially in relation to unit price who knows, but that will go for just about everyone.

The reduced F-35C buy now being suggested would mean not enough would be available to operate both from land and from our new carrier(s). Further orders would be needed or being more prudent, we could buy a mix of Super Hornet and the F-35C as per US Navy thinking. Perhaps our F-35C's would remain ashore more often than not.

No point thinking along these lines for the time being until economic recovery takes place. If the latter is delayed, don't expect to see us at the front of the line for the F-35C anyway. ETA 2020! :{

[SSSETOWTF]

draken,

Not quite sure what you mean by 'one of the few things about the F-35 that does (work), at least at present!'. Have you been working on a different program from the one I have? What is it that isn't working about the airplane at present? Last time I flew it, the radar was jaw-droppingly good and a plenty good enough reason to buy the airplane in itself. EOTS was very nice, the EW system was just obscenely sensitive and Pax are bashing out 20+ vertical landings a month so that a VL is considered almost routine now.

Have you priced up an F-18E recently, including engines and all the toys + 15% tax for an FMS purchase? Not very cheap after all are they? And then you're introducing another aircraft type after the RAF very carefully decided very recently that it didn't want more than 2 fast jet types... Would that be 'prudent' in the manner of Gordon Brown's spending plans from the last 8 years?

Regards,
Single Seat, Single Engine, The Only Way To Fly!

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

SSSE
thanks for the inside story. Since it's pretty relevant out here, how much cheaper would it be, ballpark, for the Canucks to get F-18E instead of F-35 (given they already operate it)?
I know about the capability difference, but there's an election looming.

[draken55]

Ouch!

On reflection, a flippant remark but one that tried to reflect concern about the JSF Project.

I am sorry and bow to your superior knowledge, though not your spelling of aeroplane or programme unless we are talking about computers and/or you hail from across the pond.;)

So is all now fine with the F-35B? Should we have cancelled in favour of the C Model? Why is the US D of D so concerned about cost escalation?

I did not say anything about the RAF buying Super Hornet, just that with at least one new carrier on the way, the initial order envisaged will not be enough to allocate machines for carrier borne and land based use. If you are telling me that the F-35C will cost no more than Super Hornet or Rafale, I for one could not be happier as it resolves my concerns over cost, capability and numbers.

I don't share your view that the RAF carefully decided that it wanted two fast jets and don't see any value in bringing politics into this discussion.

Out of interest though this from another thread:-

BAE Systems and Rolls-Royce signed support contracts worth £ 574 million and £ 198 million respectively for the RAF/Royal Navy Harrier force only last year. Both contracts have eight years left to run, so the MoD will likely face a substantial bill to compensate the companies for their termination.

[Doctor Cruces]

Protectionism rears its head yet again.
Goodness, I wish we would do that occasionally.

Doc C

[LowObservable]

SSSETOWTF -

What is it that isn't working about the airplane at present?

The main engine generators
The trick helmet
Cost as an independent variable
The plan that called for USMC IOC in 2012
The process of getting Milestone B re-approved (technically, the program is lacking the approval to start development)

[Foghorn Leghorn]

The UK will buy F-35C, but it will absolutely not buy F/A-18E. Anybody want to take me up on that bet? The F-35C is going to be a phenomenally good system. Unfortunately, the critics shout the loudest and just quote the drivel they read from open sources that often have no insight into the actual programme.

[SSSETOWTF]

LO,

Generators - are you deliberately telling a half-truth, or are you uninformed? The aircraft would all have had their flight clearance pulled if you were correct. Not all of them have, which is why they're still flying.

The helmet has been used on every single flight for a couple of years now. It needs improving but it works.

No idea about your other points - I'm just a simple pilot. But if the first 2 are all you have to complain about on an aircraft that represents a quantum leap forward in every respect - dynamic inversion flight controls, the clutch & propulsion system to do STOVL, in a very LO airframe that is relatively easy to maintain, and a mission systems suite that is all working ridiculously well for a program at this stage of its development cycle - then I think most people would say the program is doing rather well. Of course, all the cool kids bad mouth the JSF though.

F3..banana,

Boeing will tell you that an F-18E is available for some laughingly low price like $50m, but by the time you've added in the engines and all the bolt-ons that you really need to be able to operate it, + the 15% tax for an FMS, all of a sudden I believe the price balloons to something around 3/4 the cost of an F-35. But personally I treat any and all figures associated with procurement with sack loads of salt. It's really all about the industrial offsets and the sustainment costs in my opinion - the sticker price is the least of your worries.

Regards,
Single Seat, Single Engine, The Only Way To Fly!

[LowObservable]

Sorry. I should have specified that the old, heavy generators that are no longer being made are working fine.

There's always a glass-half-full and a glass-half-empty viewpoint...

And then there's the "glass-half-empty and the bartender wants an extra $22 billion for the full pint, and you can't have it until 2018" viewpoint...

[SSSETOWTF]

Hmmm, your glass must be much much less than half-full if you think that re-designing a couple of components of a generator is going to be an insurmountable engineering challenge for the guys that put together the STOVL lift system.

I also think that 20 years from now showing up to the fight with nothing more advanced than an F-18 because the F-35 went a bit over-budget and got scrapped, when the bad guys are flying J-20 or PAK-FA will be a really rather bad and short-lived idea.

Guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

[Double Zero]

I also think that 20 years from now showing up to the fight with nothing more advanced than an F-18 because the F-35 went a bit over-budget and got scrapped, when the bad guys are flying J-20 or PAK-FA will be a really rather bad and short-lived idea.

Spiffing! I'm sure the F-35 will be wonderful one day, ditto the 'B' STOVL job; but we seem a long, long way past the "cheap replacement for the F-16 "!

More F-22's required....

[Bevo]

SSSETOWTF:
Boeing will tell you that an F-18E is available for some laughingly low price like $50m, but by the time you've added in the engines and all the bolt-ons that you really need to be able to operate it, + the 15% tax for an FMS, all of a sudden I believe the price balloons to something around 3/4 the cost of an F-35. But personally I treat any and all figures associated with procurement with sack loads of salt. It's really all about the industrial offsets and the sustainment costs in my opinion - the sticker price is the least of your worries.SS - Reference please. How is the contract written. If you want complete cost numbers I suspect all you have to do is ask and write the contract the way you want it.

Also - see reduced signature Hornet described in the video.
F-18 "Silent Hornet"

[The Helpful Stacker]

Aren't F22s a little bit more expensive still and designed for a different purpose?

[Bevo]

F-22 is not available. Production line shut down and tooling in disarray at the orders of Sec Def Gates. :(

[draken55]

MODS

Should this thread not now be merged with the other on the F-35?

[Heathrow Harry]

Interesting that the Canadian Govyt is deep in the brown stuff over not keeping Parliament informed over rising F-35 costs