Boeing C-17 - ground refuel time

[natternoise]

Doing some research for a tv production and need to find out what the refuelling time from scratch to full tank is?

Or if anyone knows what the refuel rate from a tanker is?

I calculate that the c-17 has a fuel capacity of 90 tones or 29,500 gallons. The refuel rate on a commercial plane is 1 minute per tonne, but I doubt it takes 90minutes to refuel...?

Would be great if someone could give me an answer.

Thanks


Simon

[VinRouge]

Your questions would be best directed to Corporate Comms at RAF Brize Norton.

One point worth noting, nothing gets service personnel groaning louder than incorrect or non-factual details in documentaries and even tv programmes.

[collbar]

Depends on the pressure of the supply!!
but a good guestimate....a USAF fuel truck load..20mins

[The Helpful Stacker]

Depends on the pressure of the supply!!


An HEPC cuts out at 55PSI.

Ramp it up all you want but thats often your choke point.

[collbar]

True, just my point...... in the US many base supplys are restricted to 30psi or less, some bases will only allow one truck at a time... get a fueller spot at vegas and your laughing.

[Flap62]

The refuel rate on a commercial plane is 1 minute per tonne

Don't think so - if it was a 747 taking on 140T would never make the turnround!

[Always a Sapper]

Flame me if you want, but I would have thought along the lines of if you need to know then you would already know. If ya don't then quite obviously you don't need to....

[The Helpful Stacker]

........if you need to know then you would already know. If ya don't then quite obviously you don't need to....

Hmmm, I can see the nature/nuture debate coming along.

[natternoise]

Thanks for the responses!

How does the PSI relate to litres or gallons per minute.

Is there a shorthand way of calculating the time it'll take to refil? I just need to be in the ballpark.

Thanks,

Simon

[cat3autoland]

I agree with Always a Sapper. I see big red flags waving here.

[moggiee]

I'm not giving away any secrets if I say that my (slightly) hazy memory says that we could refuel a VC10 in under half an hour - 69 tons max fuel load, often taking a fill up of over 60tons.

Certainly much better than 1 ton per minute.

[diginagain]

Given that a) the data clearly isn't in the public domain; and b) there are a number of variables, the solution is pretty obvious.

Cuff-it. After all, who's going to say you're wrong?

[Kengineer-130]

Some people make me laugh! Really, is fuel uplift rate such a big secret? :rolleyes:... Give Boeing a ring, I am sure they will be more than happy to fill you in on the details :ok:

Stacker, a Herc doesn't "cut out" at 55psi, it is limited to 60Psi to prevent damage to the refuel pipes & seals etc :ok:

[500N]

Interesting that Boeing or the Airforce don't list much or anything about fuel capacity et al on the web pages re the C-17. In a quick search only Wiki.



Anyway, am I seeing things or is it April 1st ?

http://www.pprune.org/military-aircrew/446512-lockheed-c-130-ground-loading-rations-time.html

It's under a different log on name but ..........


Lockheed C-130- ground loading of rations time
Doing some research for a tv production and need to find out what the restocking of rations time from scratch to full cupboards is?

Or if anyone knows what the restock rate from a rations truck is?

I calculate that the c-130 has a food capacity of 10 tones or 29,500 pies. The restock rate on a commercial plane is 1 minute per pie,
but I doubt it takes 90minutes to restock...?"

[Just This Once...]

I guess Stacker was talking HEPC = Hose End Pressure Controller... no mention of Hercules...

[cat3autoland]

"Some people make me laugh!"

Glad you got some enjoyment out of it but given the current events going on in the world, requests for odd info should make one wonder a bit.

A guy walks up to a young airman waiting outside an airport terminal and casually asks if he is going somewhere in the desert. Easy question, how much harm can come from it, right?

Well, I went to the memorial service for one of those airmen and it was pretty
rough to see his buddies all torn up and the empty boots on display with the rifle and helmet and photo.

So yes, maybe it's paranoia on my part but why in the world would somebody need to know how long it takes to upload fuel or load a military cargo plane? It doesn't add up. If someone was doing a legitimate documentary, I'm sure the military would be more than helpful in answering such questions....

[Dimitris]

First link on google:

Commercial:
http://www.fluid-transfer.co.uk/downloads/ft_razer.pdf
Flow rates matched to aircraft fuelling rate and capacity
Deck hose - to 1500 lpm
Reel hose - to 1000 lpm
(Based on a hydrant pressure of 8.6 bar 
and a test rig back pressure of 2.1 bar).

(Ballpark you needed)

Military
No values but:
http://www.fluid-transfer.co.uk/downloads/Fluid%20Transfer%20Military%20Brochure.pdf

'Meters'
Range of bulk flow positive displacement meters, 200-4166 lpm.

More:
Aircraft Refueling, Refueling Vehicles, Refueling Components (http://www.fluid-transfer.co.uk/products.asp?productID=82)
40000l Refueller

Low profile refueller suitable for fuelling aircraft from Airbus A320 to A380 at flow rates up to 3000lpm.
Fuelling rates
Reel hose: 1000 lpm through 2" hose.
Deck hose: 3000 lpm through two 2½" hoses
Overwing reel hose: 300 lpm through 1½" hose



Combine the above with the fact that the meter in the military one is up to 4000lpm you have a ballpark for fuel rate through hoses. How many hoses and how many refuelers is another question.

EDIT: If the guy asking is not legitimate he is defenitely not very smart. The above info are on the internet and I'm pretty sure if one looks can find better data for documentary that are not sensitive.

[BEagle]

How long to refuel and turn one of HM's jets en-route?

Easy: Landing time to take-off time = (Ground meal allowance time) - (2 x taxying time).

So about 2:40 back in the 1990s before the beancounters cottoned-on....:(

Ching!!

[natternoise]

Thanks to those of you who helped answer my question.

Never thought it'd make folks jittery, but I understand why.

& Demitris, "not very smart"...c'mon, maybe "just lazy" :ok:

Thanks again,


Simon

[Out Of Trim]

natternoise

What makes you think that the tanks have to be full? Aircraft are not like cars. You only put in as much fuel as you need for the planned flight plus contingency and diversion fuel required. If you filled them up every trip you would limit the payload you could carry! :ugh:

[The Helpful Stacker]

Kengineer-130 - As already mentioned, I was referring to the HEPC. It shuts off at 55PSi so that the last resort that is the on aircraft system doesn't need to.

The other reason the HEPC is set at 55PSI is because pumping at a rate/pressure beyond this can cause premature FWS element breakdown.

Information is restricted "for the eyes of every airfield refueling operative in the world only" for the Beady Windowed in the house.

[Kreuger flap]

Uh oh watch out the storeman is trying to sound all technical. Did you learn that at your petrol pump attendants course?

[The Helpful Stacker]

That's right.

It's not rocket science looking after fuel but a bad batch will down an aircraft as easily as a Friday afternoon job by a techie.

[MATELO]

Boeing C-17 - ground refuel time

7 hours

90 mins for MT to clear the paperwork
60 mins to find a driver not on a tea break
30 mins to DI the fuel truck (H&S included)
30 mins to find a competent "safety man"
30 mins for a SNCO to "ok" the job
60 mins for the suppliers to "ok" the plastic key for refuelling
60 mins to drive over to apron and find the bloody C-17 (quite hard as the RAF have over 2
30 mins to put out warning signs and cordons for hazadous materials

30 mins to refuel