About that posting to Scotland...

[Willard Whyte]

Not too many posts left, but would you want to pay more tax for the 'privilege'?

Scotland must vote on this tax time bomb - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scotland/scottish-politics/8396861/Scotland-must-vote-on-this-tax-time-bomb.html)

[RetiredSHRigger]

Willard
About bloody time! subsidised university education, and free prescriptions for all from april! Notwithstanding the astronomical cost of paying for the Scottish AND Welsh regional assemblies WTF why are we paying for three Governments? Let them fund their own Tinpot assemblies for Gods sake.
Rant over :mad:

[muttywhitedog]

I lived in Scotland in 1997 and voted "Yes" to giving them Tax Raising powers, in the knowledge that as an Englishman who would be moving south in due course, I should not have to pay for their additional expenditure per head, whilst having less spent on me.

If this happens, I would giggle my t!ts off watching the SNP implode. Because if there's one thing more certain than a patriotic jock, its that the same patriotic jock wants someone else to pay for his patriocity!

[Willard Whyte]

I agree - if they want an expensive regional assembly they should damn well pay for it themselves.

But what of those in H.M. Armed forces who are perhaps unwilling postees to north of the border?

[Whenurhappy]

I'm sure the Pay Colonels are working this issue (and in the past, work was done on 'protecting' UK assets if there was a semi-independent Scotland). Think of the Gibraltar model - UK military and UKBC don't pay local levies.

Alternatively declare Naval facilities, (and DE&S sites - these are huge and strategically important), Garrisons, training areas and Airfields Sovereign British (English?) Areas.

[Geehovah]

We operate in other countries under the protection of a SOFA. This allows us to be taxed in our home countries when serving overseas.

Presumably we might find that we need a SOFA in our own country!

[thunderbird7]

Hmmm. It didn't wash when I protested against paying the poll tax a year early many moons ago while my colleagues, who had been posted to 3rd division south were not paying it - and sitting on the beach as well!!

Where tax is concerned, only the rich can avoid paying it.... :*

[draken55]

A few facts to chew over:-

The devolved Parliament in Edinburgh only controls areas of responsibility handed down to it by Westminster and decides how best to do this when spending money from the block grant settlement it is given. If it decides to build a Parliament or meet NHS charges it does so by cutting others areas of expenditure. We get to vote on their performance at Scottish Parliamentary Elections with one fast approaching, hence the usual bribes and "blue sky" thinking (local Income Tax, Scottish Government Bonds etc).

A local Income Tax is unworkable unless the Scottish Government pays HM Revenue & Customs to install the Computer technology to allow this to be done. So far it has chosen not to do so.

We have both employers and employees in Scotland whose tax records are with Tax Centres down south and vice versa. Then we have Public and Private Sector organisations with employees on both sides of the border. Different tax rates in any form would be a nightmare to administer. Tax avoidance would be even more widescale.

Even if the mechanics could be sorted out, do you think Scots are any more likely to vote for a voluntary Tax rise than others in the UK?

When most Scots vote SNP they are not voting for Independence but just giving Labour a kicking. Why? The Conservative Party in Scotland shows no sign of ever recovering, the Liberals only have a significant power base in the Borders and Northern Isles (Orkney and Shetland) and may now have risked that by joining the current Government. This year it may be more of a fight between SNP and Labour with the latter likely to come out on top but possibly in coalition once again with the Liberals!

[rab-k]

Twaddle alert!

If you want an independent Scotland you can vote for the Greens, the SSP (God forbid) or the SNP, or in a referendum vote whichever way you like irrespective of political party - but we're not mature enough to have one of these; evidently the outcome worries some folk in high places.

This is why support in the polls for Independence is routinely greater than support for the SNP - the two are not necessarily linked and the SNP, despite what the pro-Union media (and others - see above post) would suggest, isn't a one-trick-pony.

Having worked both at home (Scotland) and abroad (everywhere else) I find that if I like a place, it's people, and whatever domestic political setup exists then I stay a while, if I really don't like one or more aspect of a place, I pack up and pi$$ off; even if that requires leaving the job in the process.

As for differences within these isles; they result from democracy people - you remember, that thing many of you and your colleagues are busy defending both here and elsewhere. Before the mass hysteria commences remember this; what exists is because people voted for it...:ugh:

[draken55]

Don't recall saying the SNP was a one trick pony only that it's fluid support reflects the fact that most are not voting for independence.
If Scots really want to vote for an independent Country, we can as you say, vote for anyone standing on the basis they would then refuse to take their seat at Westminster. But what if the votes cast to win such seats are less than those cast for other party's. A National referendum? Who decides the question? An Independent Scotland with the Queen as Head of State? An Independent Scottish Republic? Separate referendums for the Northern Isles (whose oil is it?).

There are many reasons for voting SNP most of which have nothing to do with wanting Independence. That why the Nats have not asked the question when in power and why they are always at the front of demo's to save Lossie and Leuchars, neither of which would exist in an independent Scotland based on their own Defence Plans!

[VinRouge]

Can someone please explain the Barnett formula please? Why are the scots entitled to so much more than the average English citizen?

[Wander00]

Probably due to there being so many f'ing Scots (and lawyers at that) in the last Parliament.

On the same lines - can someone explain the origin of "The West Lothian Question" - I think I understand it as Scots getting double representation (a bit like Trades Union Members in the Labour Party), but what is the origin?

[XV277]

On the same lines - can someone explain the origin of "The West Lothian Question" - I think I understand it as Scots getting double representation (a bit like Trades Union Members in the Labour Party), but what is the origin?

Tam Dayell, then MP for West Lothian, raised the question during the 1978/9 Assembly referendum. Effectively, he found a few places in his constituency with the same names as place sin England (e.g. Blackburn) and asked why, as MP for Blackburn in West Lothian, he could vote on matters to do with Blackburn in England but not in the one in his own constituency.

[draken55]

Are we? You don't know the formula but consider it is unfair, perhaps on the basis of the free NHS prescriptions issue and others that appear strange when HMG is broke.

Devolution meant that certain services once consistent throughout the Country now differ in Scotland, Wales and Nothern Ireland from the rest of the UK. It's down to each Country's priorities. In Scotland we have in the M8 quite possibly the worst Motorway in the UK connecting two large cities and their hinterland. England has the never finished M25, the promise of a fast rail link from the South to the North (not even to Carlisle) coming at a cost of £ 15 Billion to mention but two areas were spending priorities differ.

As for the West Lothian question, I agree that MP's for Scottish seats should not vote on English only issues. Ask your MP why DC has not tried to rectify this? I am sure you would find the answer interesting!

[glad rag]

MP's for Scottish seats should not vote on English only issuesWhich is why Salmond has specifically stopped SNP MP's from doing just that!!

[And I don't even vote for the tossers !!]

but feel that they are being unfairly targeted by the same old style of bigoted misinformation!!!

:ugh:

However, as has been alluded to a couple of posts above the SNP have been bought out by both Westminster and EU.

If they really wanted independence then the first thing to campaign for removal would be the weapon site around Coulport, do they actively pursue this?

NO. :confused::confused::confused:

[draken55]

With HM Naval Base Clyde and Coulport employing 5,000 plus people, it's not exactly a priority issue. The SNP is anti-Trident in addition to being against the building of Nuclear Power Stations to replace Hunterston and Torness. The latter they can do something about but not the former as Defence is a matter reserved by Westminster.

The SNP has a Defence view for an independent Scotland but in practice is more interested on jobs and their impact on the economy. Either being pragmatic or "having been bought" but certainly within the remit of the Edinburgh Parliament. They can be vocal on the threat of closure to Lossie and Leuchars without facing the big "what if" question.

XV277 clarified the West Lothian question but who can suggest why HMG has decided to leave things as they stand?:hmm: In any event Tam's question also applied as much to powers ceded by Westminster to Brussels which have also reduced the power once vested only in those at Westminster.

[davejb]

Please could I just ask folk on here to understand that some of us were sent kicking and screaming to Scotland. I honestly thought all that 'Moira Anderson' stuff at the White Heather Club that made New Year's TV so depressing was an accurate guide to Jockland, and I was probably clinically depressed for 3 or 4 years after arriving on 120 before SLOWLY beginning to like the place.

So could we stop the "everyone north of the border" way this seems to have headed, some of us don't like the loony ideas any more than 'angry of wigan'. The issues are seldom as black and white as they are painted on here anyway, any tw@ can grab a headline and run with it, how about a bit of informed debate instead of this Daily Mail approach to life?

SO:

Student fees - a great equaliser, Corporal Boggs' kids can go to Uni without Cp Bloggs shelling thousands out on fees... considering £X000 is going out on food and accomodation anyhow at least Cpl Bloggs' kids get a crack at a degree and a better life (graduates get paid more, end of). So yeah, I reckon that is something we ought to do, and I think Scotland got right. Do I think there should be some selection in this, ie do I think 'media studies' should be funded from taxpayer income? No way - let's have big incentives for kids prepared to do degrees in skills/areas we want.

Trident - post SDSR (even before we started spending like a drunk sailor on Libya) I was wondering if we could afford it - I've always been pro nuke up to now, but SDSR cut so deep I can't see the point in being able to destroy cities/states if we can't afford to fight a conventional battle. (Which we suddenly seem able to do - is extra cash to be paid in by HMG for Libya or are HM forces going to be even more hard up as a result?)

SNP - as bad as any other bunch of f'wits, but with less vision.

Discuss :E

Dave

[thunderbird7]

Scots are like Mancunians - the world is full of them telling you what great places they are but none of them actually live there :ok:

[The Old Fat One]

Where tax is concerned, only the rich can avoid paying it....


Indeed,

If I feel like winding up a jock, I like to point out that I've paid more tax in the County of Scotlandshire than Sean Connery ever will...never fails to get them come over all "Flower of Scotland" :E:E:E

PS Did you know that if you are born South of the Watford Gap you still get first dibs on their Womenfolk?

[draken55]

Poor Sir Sean. He must still choke when thinking of all the things "he did for England" as 007. Still it allowed him to scoot off as did countless others at the time and many others since.

As Thunderbird 7 said earlier on this thread, only the rich can avoid paying tax. At least Sir Sean has put a lot back through his Foundation.

I was in Rome a few years ago and by accident was nearby when he arrived to visit the Mayor. He still created bedlam and had women, even my wife, swooning! The man is a Star:cool:

[thunderbird7]

The man is a Star

Shirley not! You don't expect him to talk, do you? :)

[sitigeltfel]

Scots are like Mancunians

Possibly..........Barnett was a Mancunian!

the world is full of them telling you what great places they are but none of them actually live there :ok:

Yep, that's why I'm here:ok:

[Finningley Boy]

I lived in Scotland in 1997 and voted "Yes" to giving them Tax Raising powers, in the knowledge that as an Englishman who would be moving south in due course, I should not have to pay for their additional expenditure per head, whilst having less spent on me.

If this happens, I would giggle my t!ts off watching the SNP implode. Because if there's one thing more certain than a patriotic jock, its that the same patriotic jock wants someone else to pay for his patriocity!

As a Scotsman, who admittedly lives in England, it breaks my heart t o have to concur regarding the the logic of Scottish Patriotism. Its all very well the SNP painting a picture of onward and upward prosperity following independence from the U.K. But I'm certain it would be a horrible disaster. I've always wrapped myself in the Union Flag and for very good reason!

FB:)

[draken55]

FB

I am very happy to live here but have a brother in Kent and relations in Cheshire, Lancashire and Yorkshire not to mention abroad in Oz. Not unusual for Scots who are well used to making a move to seek a better life. Perhaps that should not have to be the case but that's the way it's always been and not just for Scots!

It's one thing to want Independence from a strong emotional point of view, another to have to be persuaded to want it by the SNP's case that it would be painless and that it must automatically lead to a more prosperous Scotland.

Perhaps the SNP is now quite happy to be in power at Edinburgh controlling most of what affects Scots on a day to day basis. If the Party is returned to power after the election we will just have to wait and see if they choose to raise the question of a referendum again.

At the end of the day as in any Democracy the will of the people will prevail:)

[minigundiplomat]

I like Scotland, and the Jocks - I just dont want to pay for them, or them for me. Despite the smoke and mirrors, it does seem that they do fairly well out of the deal.

To return to the OP's question, the answer is simple. I live in the most expensive part of Southern England, but pay the same council tax (or CILOCT) as someone in nowheresville, Scotland.

Why not have a uniform rate of tax based on English models, for service people posted to Scotland.

As for free uni - good luck to them if they pay English rates of tax but get free uni for their kids, but I see that coming to an abrupt halt once the jocks start getting the bill.

[Willard Whyte]

MGD

What about Scottish service people who have lived and worked amongst the rest of us for many a year? Will they be required to fund their slightly chillier northern-dwelling kith and kin?

Anyway, hoping none of this affects me, having had a JPA 'negative posting preference - Scotland' for some time now.

[draken55]

"I live in the most expensive part of Southern England, but pay the same council tax (or CILOCT) as someone in nowheresville, Scotland".

More generally, Council Tax is a nonsense. It varies greatly from one place to another and is easy to avoid! It has caused a flight to the suburbs as City's were always rated higher, with the inevitable consequences. Problem was that a National Property Tax, as say in France, was considered a political non starter.

When Maggie brought in the Poll Tax, my domestic rates reduced dramatically even though my Income was going up, highlighting the ability to pay argument. Finally, and this remains the big issue, what is any house actually to be valued at? Market rate? An assumed value uprated sometime in the future by some RICS Index?

It's quite possible that Scotland will move in the direction of a National Property Tax rather than keep the Local Authority based Council Tax. The very creation of a Scottish Parliament really should have led to the end of our existing Local Authority structure. Harsh economic reality is now forcing change as Councils, Police and Fire Services join together to achieve the cost savings available had Edinburgh simply been given more control from day one.

And why were they not? Politicians played the local democracy card to justify staying in Office! Just how many people do we need to represent us:ugh:

[Climebear]

minigundiplomat
To return to the OP's question, the answer is simple. I live in the most expensive part of Southern England, but pay the same council tax (or CILOCT) as someone in nowheresville, Scotland.

Why not have a uniform rate of tax based on English models, for service people posted to Scotland.


That would be the probable solution. However, that would still miss the additional tax burden a service person's partner whose income is often a fairly substantial element of the family income.