View Full Version : firefighting helicopter crashed in Spain 19th March 2011
xtremalsound
19th Mar 2011, 15:27
One Inaer's bell 407 crashed some hours ago in Teruel ( Spain). 6 persons have died and one serous injured.... The helicopter was going to small
Fire with authority lost the contact with them.
RIP ALLS
Jerry Can
19th Mar 2011, 16:53
Sad news. RIP
eivissa
19th Mar 2011, 18:10
Very sad news. My sincere condolences :(
I find it kind of disturbing that Inaer's website never mentions anything whenever people crash and die within the company.
http://www.rtve.es/imagenes/accidente-helicoptero-provincia-teruel/1300562590662.jpg
maeroda
19th Mar 2011, 18:19
Sad day!
R.I.P !!
Newforest2
19th Mar 2011, 18:52
The triple exclamation marks seem a trifle unnecessary in this sad situation. There should be no surprise that accidents occur in this type of operation which is probably as dangerous as EMS operations.
helihub
19th Mar 2011, 22:30
Let us not forget that Korea also had a fatal firefighting helicopter crash today :-(
helihub
19th Mar 2011, 23:26
http://www.aviacioncomercial.net/rnac/f1947/ECKTA01.jpg
Gordy
20th Mar 2011, 05:42
RIP, See y'all on the flip side......
Gordy and the crew of the MTF Helitack....
Perrito Piloto
20th Mar 2011, 18:57
Yesterday, a firefighting INAER Bell 407 crashed in Teruel (Spain).
6 fatalities (pilot and 5 firemen) and one injured.
Mueren seis brigadistas antiincendios al estrellarse su helicóptero en Teruel · ELPAÍS.com (http://www.elpais.com/articulo/espana/Mueren/brigadistas/antiincendios/estrellarse/helicoptero/Teruel/elpepiesp/20110320elpepinac_4/Tes)
No further info yet.
INAER has one of the highest accidents rate in the helicopter business.
At this time, INAER managers are charged for the accident of a S61N in Canary Islands.
Directivos de INAER, imputados por el accidente de helicóptero de Tenerife (http://www.aviaciondigitalglobal.com/noticia.asp?NotId=15700&NotDesignId=4)
Luís Miñano (INAER) declarará como imputado de Homicidio por Imprudencia Grave (http://www.aviaciondigitalglobal.com/noticia.asp?NotId=15690&NotDesignId=4)
Working times in INAER are a kind of slavery.
Pilots works up to 2,440 working hours per year.
SAR A139 crashed in Almería (Spain) a year ago belongs to INAER.
Be careful, guys...
Gordy
20th Mar 2011, 19:07
See Here: (http://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/446161-firefighting-helicopter-crashed-spain-19th-march-2011-a.html)
BTW----I work more than that....
mickjoebill
20th Mar 2011, 23:01
Cabin looks largley intact.
No sign of fire.
Yet shockingly 6 died.
Were they wearing helmets?
Mickjoebill
HeliPilot1
4th Apr 2011, 19:55
Anyone have more information on this?
R.I.P
---
NTSB Identification: ENG11RA023
14 CFR Unknown
Accident occurred Saturday, March 19, 2011 in Alcorsia, Teruel, Spain, Spain
Aircraft: BELL Bell, registration: EC-KTA
Injuries: Unavailable
On March 19, 2011, at 12:35 UTC, a Bell 407 helicopter crashed near the town of Villastar, Teruel - Spain. The helicopter crashed while transporting a fire brigade to extinguish a blaze in the eastern part of Spain about 400 kilometers from Madrid. The pilot, along with 5 passengers, were killed. The other occupant was seriously injured.
eivissa
4th Apr 2011, 19:59
http://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/446161-firefighting-helicopter-crashed-spain-19th-march-2011-a.html
If you are concerned that it was someone you knew. Names via PM.
fokkerpilot
5th Apr 2011, 08:42
Any information on what was the reason for the accident?
Bad weather, technical problem etc..?
Have not heard a thing, even through the "fire world" grapevine.
Maybe someone closer could answer some questions for me. Is it typical to fly with 6 firefighters on board in Spain?
Here in the US I fly initial helitack with an L4. With fuel for 90 minutes, bucket, longline etc we only have enough weight left for 3 firefighters with gear. (Admittedly, I have to keep it somewhat light in that our operations go upto 8,500 ft with typical temps of 25C.) During the "sea level" portion of my contract, we fly with just under 3 hours of fuel, but still only 3 firefighters. We just do not have any more room in the aircraft for more.
When doing a crew shuttle, we will put fup to five firefighters on board, but at this point we will not have the bucket on board, again most of our people are not small and would not even fit in the rear middle seat.
Usually:
AS350: 5 firefighters
Koala and 407: 6 firefighters
apb...
Thanks...
Do they carry fire packs etc, and do you carry a bucket on the aircraft? (just trying to figure how much weight you guys are carrying).
They carry all that is necesary to fight against fire and a bamby bucket.
They carry all that is necesary to fight against fire and a bamby bucket.
At 6 people, that is an average of 1,200 lbs plus the weight of the bucket, pilot and fuel.... Would love to see a load calc for that... PM me and maybe we can exchange some ideas.
SuperF
6th Apr 2011, 09:46
Maybe they are a bit smaller in Europe, or a bit less gas, with closer refueling stops? We're not all in a big ol country like the US...
From home 1hrs flight gets me past about 7 or 8 Jet pumps, and within 10 mins of another 4... And I think I'm stuck out in the sticks.
Epiphany
6th Apr 2011, 10:13
You are making the mistake of assuming that any calculation was made Gordy.
xtremalsound
6th Apr 2011, 10:21
Hi guys,
I don't know if the pilot made the calculation of the MTOW and performances but I think he could do it.
I never fly this maquine but some years ago I flew koala for firefighting operations in spain and I always did it.
With a koala you can carry 7 bombers, bambi bucket and about 2 hours of fluel.
I have news that the pilot was flying low level and the helicopter had a hydraulic failure.
Epiphany
You are making the mistake of assuming that any calculation was made Gordy.
Exactly the point I was trying to make. I still find it hard to believe that you can fit 6 fire fighters AND all that is necesary to fight against fire and a bamby bucket
Yes the US is a big ol country, but one still needs to carry about 90 minutes of fuel. And we have a ground support vehicle that follows with 800 gallons on it.
As an example, here is what I am required to fill out each day, obviously I am still in the "flatland" portion of my contract:
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j35/helokat/General%20Other/57Z-1.jpg
As you can see, the USFS makes us subtract 180lbs of useful load for safety reasons, leaving me with a useful load of 942lbs.
Epiphany
6th Apr 2011, 16:28
That's called professionalism and proper prior planning Gordy. Unheard of in some areas. I hope some people take note.
Epiphany---you are correct.
In the interest of maybe helping those who do not have "set" forms or need some help, here is my manifest for the day. Feel free to use these or make your own based upon these. They get filled out every day for the prevailing temperature. In Idaho, where I am for the summer and fall season, we complete load calcs for different elevation/temperature ranges, and will adjust the fuel accordingly. We have a 10 minute dispatch time.
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j35/helokat/General%20Other/IMG_0507.jpg
Each of our firefighters has 2 weights. One is just them in their flight gear, and the other one, (used here), is their "IA" weight, (initial attack). IA weight includes their line pack which typically weigh 40lbs, and a sleeping bag.
If anyone would like some of these forms, I do have them all in either excel or pdf format.
You would think (hope) thiis stuff gets worked out but no disrespect to the people involved maybe not.
I have worked in .es IA with a 205A1 in Catalunya. Mind you that was pre-GPS and internet even!
Had a bit of a giggle with similar records being computed for a 212. Every MTOW was worked as 11,200 lbs - yeah right.
Gordy - your weight includes, helmet, flight suit, maps, lunch, side arm, steel cap boots, etc etc...............or ? :ouch:
Gordy
12th Apr 2011, 20:13
RVDT
Gordy - your weight includes, helmet, flight suit, maps, lunch, side arm, steel cap boots, etc etc...............or ?
Yes and no....If you look on the load calculation in section 14 it states:
Flight crew weight includes Survival pack, Fire Shelter, water pouch & misc items
So yes we get weighed with flight gear on, so it does include helmet, I no longer wear a flight suit----way too egotistical for my liking......I wear nomex pants and yellow shirt to blend with my crew.
No maps, we are fully digital now with gps, although we do carry an initial attack, (IA), bag which has forest maps in it.
No lunch---that travels on our chase truck, (although I do have some food in my pack, and there is also emergency food in the survival pack).
No side arm allowed in the lower 48, and no steel cap boots on a fire line.
In fact, the only thing not included in the weight & balance calculations is Timothy, who is on the "trip" of a lifetime---I turned him round for this picture:
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j35/helokat/Pocatello%2010/2010-06-25171713.jpg
Link to the article:
Google Traductor (http://translate.google.es/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=es&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&sl=es&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.diariodeteruel.es%2Fteruel%2F14718-una-de-las-piezas-hidraulicas-del-helicoptero-estaba-bloqueada.html&act=url)
One of the hydraulic parts of the helicopter Bell 407 helicopter transport brigade Alcorisa that crashed in March in Villastar and which killed six people, was found locked by the team of Civil Aviation experts investigating the incident.
Regards
Aser