British Aviation in Belize??

[Red_Phos]

Hello all,

I'm a pilot in 25 Flt AAC who has been given the task of writing an essay on the History of British Aviation in Belize (as we are due to close the time has come to look back on what we once had!)

Now it would appear that no one has really approached this topic before as I am struggling to find decent material, apart from 25's photo albums (mostly of the inside of Raul's!)

So this is a request for any 'gen', any dits or steers towards any decent publications relating to the aviation assets we have had out here over the years. Apart from the AAC dets I am aware we have had Pumas, Harriers and rumour of Bucs.

Disclaimer: not trying to avoid proper research, I just want some decent first hand stories that I can chase up to make this work slightly more exciting than a list of Sqn dets!

Many thanks,

Red

PS. A good chance this may make the AAC newsletter so any decent pics you feel like sharing would be appreciated!

[ShyTorque]

I did a number of Puma detachments there in the late 1970s and early 80s. I don't recall any Buccaneers ever being based out there.

[airborne_artist]

The full story on the Buccs is in Phoenix Squadron (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Phoenix-Squadron-Britain%C2%92s-Topguns-dramatic/dp/0552152900/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1300300952&sr=8-1) - they executed a show of force when Guatemala was talking about invading Belize in 1972.

[MIKTHENAV]

Canberra PR9s of 39 Sqn and PR7s of 13 Sqn were detached there in the 70s and early 80s. Air Historical Branch will be able to provide more detail.:)

[Airborne Aircrew]

The Canberras were there in 87 too... I have pictures they took of Journey's End while I was honeymooning there...

[SkyCamMK]

In Spring 1976 I was there as a temporary Ops Officer with the No 1 Harrier Squadron detachment. They were having problems with the heat affecting the wing pillow tanks, one had been crashed and serviceability was tricky.

[c130jbloke]

On the Puma front, best to talk to 230 & 33 Sqns as I am sure they will have pictures ( Raul's again probably ). IIRC, in 1989 there were 4 x crews on 1563 flt ( 3 x 33 / 1 x 230 ) with 4 x ac at any time.

There also used to be a Belize sched by C -130 and another by VC10 for pax ( Beagle ? ) and a LOX run which staged through Homestead AFB to pick up the stuff.

Was there not a Belize thread here a while ago ?

[philrigger]

;)

Over the years a number of aircraft have been involved with the trooping;
Britannia and VC10 for instance.


I believe that during the 39-45 war the base was used for aircraft involved with patroling that part of the Caribbean for u-boats.


Phil

[moggiee]

There also used to be a Belize sched by C -130 and another by VC10 for pax ( Beagle ? )
Did the VC10 trip a few time myself - we used to hate having to do the leg from Brize to Washington because we had to get up at about 2am, airborne at about 4.30am and arrive in Dulles around breakfast time. We then got a 14 hour day stop in a "lovely" airport motel whilst the Washington based crew flew a nice little day trip to Belize and back.

Then, after a day in our motel with little or no sleep we had to leave Dulles in the evening for an overnight flight to Brize. Arrive home on thursday morning absolutely knackered.

The day trip from Dulles to Belize and back was a nice little jaunt, though.

[Airborne Aircrew]

Did the VC10 trip a few time myself

I did that round trip a mere 5 times myself albeit as a pax. I have pictures of The Swamp that housed the 4 Puma Crewmen and various other pictures from all over Belize spanning my 5 tours from 1985-88 if you need them.

Moggiee:

I always used to like going through Dulles in either direction because the VC-10 was resupplied and the Yank lumpy boxes were always so much better than the Belize or Brize ones... :ok:

[Lou Scannon]

We used to drop in there in the 1960's in Hastings to re-supply the garrison...or something similar.

[Fareastdriver]

As I slide down the bannister of life; Belize is the splinter in my backside.

[NURSE]

AAC had long history out there with 25 Flt on Gazelles when i was there and I think scouts before that. Didn't they try Lynx/gazelle combination before going 212

[moggiee]

I always used to like going through Dulles in either direction because the VC-10 was resupplied and the Yank lumpy boxes were always so much better than the Belize or Brize ones... :ok:

Did you enjoy your rides in the telescopic people eaters?

[Dundiggin']

Go on mate give us a treat and remind us of the real Belize with your phots of the swamp...:E

[Bro]

I did two stints with 1417 Flt, Harriers. Great fun.

[Wiretensioner]

Four dets between 79-81 with 230 Sqn. Many memories of the Swamp. In those days the AAC had the Scout out there.

Wiretensioner

[winchman]

I can tell you about the night i spent in the back of a Lynx on the flight dispersal with young American tourist on the fold up stretcher. I was ever so slightly tipsy at the time but soon sobered up once the flight QHI got hold of me for leaving the NVG stork lights on and and running the battery flat....:ok:

[Airborne Aircrew]

Dundiggin:

Go on mate give us a treat and remind us of the real Belize with your phots of the swamp..

Careful there... I might have copies of the legless you with the Bolivian partial transgender on San Pedro... Go on, deny it... :p

[sharpend]

I flew into Belize many times as VC10 Captain. Always a problem turning on the narrow runway that was a few feet narrower than the turning circle of the VC10.

[Rocket2]

Set off for the UK in a 115 Sqn Andover after doing Calibration runs in Oct 91, arrived home a week later after the Yanks broke it for us during an over night stop at Washington - some good field repairs on that trip! :ok:

[AS332L1]

When is it due to close?

[H Peacock]

1417 Flt... So called because they were always done and on their way to the beach by 2:20pm!

Remember more than once a VC10 falling off the edge of the runway. Saw many airliners flying quite sporty visual approaches into Belize, guess it was before this Stab App busines.

[XV277]

You may have seen it but some interesting photos here:

British Army Helicopters flown by 25 Flt AAC in Belize - a set on Flickr (http://www.flickr.com/photos/britsincancun/sets/72157600712918478/)

[Tigger_Too]

And then there was the Army Doc in 1977 Can't remember his name, and probably just as well! One of his routine duties was to inspect the employees of the Big 'C' (If you don't know, use your imagination). He used to carry out the weekly inspection on a Friday afternoon, after Happy Hour. But before leaving the bar, he would auction his spare white coat. The girls never really worked out why he had a different 'assistant' every week.

[AS332L1]

I remember those banana boats and the wonderful hotel in Placencia after putting the 212's back together :D

happy days

[dagama]

.... and I remember hanging out of the front pax door on a long lead talking you around so we didn't go over the edge!

[OKOC]

And wasn't Rudi the airport manager--the man with a finger in every pie--top bloke though.

[dagama]

To get back to the thread:

It was in Jan 1972 that the Guats threatened to over-run British Honduras (now Belize). The British govt deployed troops to repel them and an airlift using Hercs and VC10s was set up. Belize City airport (more an airfield) could not take more than a Herc in those days so the troops were were flown in all types of AT ac to Nassau and then the Herc flew them into Belize. Nassau-Belize was 3 hours each way. A nice day's work with the T/R. The only let down aid was a NDB which, in a storm, became unrelible so it was mostly the Mk 1 eyeball to get us in.

The USA did not wish to offend the Guats so denied us all over-fly rights so the routing was Lyn-Santa Maria-Bermuda-Nassau. The last leg was avoiding Florida (not that it mattered) and the diversion was the Cayman Is - a long way for a div.

Rudi was a dispatcher in those days and he rose to be the Airport Manager IIRC. On departure fm Belize, we had to file an airborne flt plan with a radar site in the south of Mexico for the trip back to Nassau.

This skirmish was beneficial to British Honduras. Money poured in and the hinterland, which was a tropical forest, was opened up to the extent that a highway and a new capital city were built after a hurricane left a blot on the coastal landscape. BH became Belize in 1973.

In Jan 1973, a weekly Herc schedule was started to re-supply the Belize Garrison. Every Saturday, a Herc left LYE to route YQX-BZE-YQX-LYE. YQX-BZE-YQX was avoiding the USA (still not friendly). This was a very ambitious schedule and the first flight was running out of fuel so diverted to Nassau where it promptly went U/S with a bleed air leak and spent 3 days while a seal was flown out via the schedule BOAC LHR-Nassau- Mexico City schedule. The powers be realised that a flag stop at Nassau had to be built into the schedule. This schedule continued for many years and when the USA became 'friendly', a flag stop at' No Hope Pope' in NC was in the itin.

In addition to these re-supply flights, there were extras for the Rapier sqn rotation, replacement airframes for Harrier and Gazalle and sadly, bringing back the fallen.

Belize runway was extended but I was not on the fleet when this happened.

Later, on VC10s, I went to Belize on numerous occasins to see a thriving and busy airport. All the comms had been installed and the RAF even put in a radar. There was a schedule TACA flight from Miami and RAF AT lost the priority that it was used to in the past. Commercial pressures, you know!

One highlight was to fly in a Herc over the 'Black hole' and see it from the air.

Sorry, not many dates but you may be able use this story with other tales to compile a worth while write-up. Track down Rudi and he'll be a gold mine of information if not sugar bags and timber!! Good luck and Best wishes.

[Fareastdriver]

And then there was the Army Doc in 1977

I suggested, and he took it up, that I fly him down to Punta Gorda one day to have a look at Rosie.

[Davey Emcee]

Hi Red Phos. Myself and 2 other pilots were the last sioux flight in Belize before Gazelles took over.
I'll have dig around for photos, but don't recall taking any. I have names dates etc from my log books if any good to you.

[AARON O'DICKYDIDO]

;)

One highlight was to fly in a Herc over the 'Black hole' and see it from the air.

Do you mean the 'BLUE hole'?



Aaron

[Fareastdriver]

In about 1978 some fashion company decided to do some swimsuit shots in the Blue Hole. For those who don't know it was a sink hole off the Carribean Barrier Reef that plummeted down to some enormous depth with some exquisite coral formations. The sexy model, after a 20min course on deep sea diving, went down to do the shots. She got disorientated and started swimming downwards. They recovered her but she then had a bad case of the bends.
Luckily the heros of 33Sqn had just done their winching training so off we flew to do the rescue. For those used to ponsing around in a Sea King a final height of 80ft is required on a Puma when transfering to and from a boat. Due to brilliant guidence and skillful flying the winchman was deposited on a fairly small launch first time to be confronted by a topless model offering him a large G&T. As she hadn't provided any for the rest of the crew he unselfishly turned this down and prepared the casualty for transfer.
Things went very well and back at Airport Camp the medical staff had hardly enough time to gloat over her when a Learjet pitched up from Miami. This was the 'Divers Special' and it had an overpressurisation system to take a diver below sea level during the trip back to the States.

No thanks, nothing, not a Dickie Bird from those we had helped out. Maybe we should have sent them a bill.

[1771 DELETE]

Does anybody remember Little Italy restaurant on Ambergris key in San Pedro, i am lucky enough to have my neighbour who used to owne the restaurant? She asks if anyone is missing a pair of Union Jack shorts?

[Grabbers]

There was a GR3 Engineer Cpl on 1417Flt in 90-91 who used to enjoy strolling through the Rose Garden. So much so that when he left to go back to the UK, the viewing balcony at the airport was crowded with teary (note I didn't say weeping) employees of aforementioned Garden. *z I think his name was.

[lgwpave]

Dagama/Sharpend

The runway was extended in '89 - I was one of the engineers working on site with the Mexican contractor.

Used to make us laugh watching you guys hanging out the door, but we weren't happy with the damage those tyres caused on our new asphalt while making the turns :{

[Bofaboy]

Hello,

I was flying the Gayzelle in 2001 and can drop some photos your way if you wish. Have some good memories of the Lazy Lizard on Caye Caulker and pushing a bit of negative G off of 1000ft falls. Top tour.

Let me know if you want the snaps.

[brakedwell]

I did a few Belize trips with a Britannia in 1972 - 74. The routing was Brize - Gander N/S - Nassau - Belize N/S. Same routing on the way back.

[moggiee]

.... and I remember hanging out of the front pax door on a long lead talking you around so we didn't go over the edge!

After the "Central American Ploughing Incident", the VC10s had their turning circles measured, they were all found to be slightly different and (in an ideal world) we were supposed to take one of the better ones.

Typically 146-148 feet turning circle on a 150 feet wide runway.

I remember the chaps at "Butcher Radar" would always grade your landing by holding up a big sign saying "Magic" or "Crap". You had to remember to wave at them as you taxied past or they were likely to revise a "Magic" into a "Crap".

[dc1968]

http://webspace.webring.com/people/cu/um_1367/raf/raf1563flt.jpg

Oh Happy Dayz!

[classjazz]

Don't forget that besides the VC-10's there were Belfast and C-130 flights in and out of Belize on a constant basis.

The Belfast was the only aircraft at the time (1971-76) capable of carrying the required helicopter and Harrier aircraft without necessitating a long "put it together" time.

I spent a detachment in Belize dropping pallets of supplies to the (I think) the Ghurkas. The moral of that story is if the pallets contain breeze blocks, do not weigh them and then leave them in the rain before putting them in the back of the Herc - but that is another story.

[JetMender]

I worked for Redcoat Cargo Airlines who had the MOD contract to re-supply BZE weekly using Britannia or CL-44 aircraft in approx '79 - '81. We routed LYE (or BZZ) - YHZ - BZE. Every other week be had a MOD backload, but on alternate weeks, ferried up to US or Canada to pick up a commercial load. It was on one of these trips a Britannia crashed after iceing up on T/O ex BOS. Unfortunately there were 2 MOD family members "hitching a ride home", who were killed in the crash.
We also brought back all the equipment use to film "Dog of War", shot on location in Belize.

[ICM]

Belize was occasionally visited by Benson-based Argosies doing Caribbean trainers - the once-in-a-tour good deal. I got mine in November 1968.

Later on, Belize became a VC10 destination once the Britannias were withdrawn from service. As others have pointed out, the runway width and lack of a parallel taxiway made it less than ideal for the 10, and I have taken my turn at hanging out the front pax door helping talk the pilots round. When MOD increased the Dulles schedule frequency to twice a week, this made it possible to run a 'Dulles Slip.' That, too, has been mentioned, but it did also mean that crews had a few days layover in the US, even sometimes downtown!

An earlier post dealt with what was, I think, the first Harrier deployment in 1972. In early July 1977, further Guatemalan trouble was brewing, and it was decided to beef-up the Harrier presence - the tricky bit being that HMG wanted this operation to be well underway before our Ambassador at the UN made a statement saying we were doing it. All involved at Wittering, Brize and Lyneham had, as I recall, less than 24 hours notice. The UN angle imposed a need for secrecy that did not sit well with the practicalities of positioning slip crews and servicing personnel for both VC10s and C130s at a time when comms with handling companies were in the clear on OFTS. However, all went well - two 10s did the positioning flights the next day, the operation got underway, with the main VC10 task being to carry palletised CBUs and ammunition for the Harriers. Inevitably, most other tasks were cancelled to free-up aircraft for the operation - but I remember vividly that two were not. One was in the full Royal fit, to take HM The Queen out to the Army's Silver Jubilee Review at Sennelager, with another in normal VIP fit for the Army Board and miscellaneous Army generals. When these got back to Brize, they were immediately stripped down to the basic freight configuration and pressed into service - ditto the crews. All in a few days' work - the Ambassador duly made his statement saying that reinforcement was underway, and whatever Guatemalan action had been anticipated was apparently forestalled.

[MReyn24050]

It was in Jan 1972 that the Guats threatened to over-run British Honduras (now Belize). The British govt deployed troops to repel them and an airlift using Hercs and VC10s was set up. Belize City airport (more an airfield) could not take more than a Herc in those days so the troops were were flown in all types of AT ac to Nassau and then the Herc flew them into Belize. Nassau-Belize was 3 hours each way. A nice day's work with the T/R. The only let down aid was a NDB which, in a storm, became unrelible so it was mostly the Mk 1 eyeball to get us in.
Don't forget that besides the VC-10's there were Belfast and C-130 flights in and out of Belize on a constant basis.

In November 1972 I flew out to Belize via Goose Bay and Nassau on a C130 with the advance party of the Devon & Dorset Regiment to take over from the REME Artificer of the 14/20 Hussars Air Troop who had been responsible for the maintenance of 3 Sioux AH Mk1s of the Air Troop in support of the Infantry Battalion deployed to hold back the Guat Army should they invade Belize. A week later the three Siouxs belonging to 663 Sqn AAC Soiux Flight arrived on a Belfast along with the Pilots, Ground Handlers and the REME Air Techs. 14/20 Hussars Air Troop aircraft and personnel returned to the UK on the same aircraft. On the same day one of our aircraft was ready for operations and 663 Sqn AAC Sioux Flight was operational. The Flight remained in theatre for 6 months before being replaced by another AAC Sioux Flight. I believe 14/20 Hussars Air Troop was the first AAC Unit to operate in Belize.
We operated from a Romney Hut opposite the then Fire station.
There were no Harriers in 1972 or for the first few months of 1973.

653 AAC Sioux Flight took over from 663 AAC Sqn Sioux Flight about mid 1973.

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c67/sabamel/663SqnAACSiouxAHmk1Belize1972.jpg

[Red_Phos]

Gentlemen,

Many thanks for all the posts. Im surprised there has been as much as interest as this!

The aim is to document the good work done out here while also highlighting the eh 'benefits' of a caribbean posting. So more dits please!


Thanks again,

Red

[MReyn24050]

Christmas 1972– Belize.
Date and Time:- Three days before Christmas Day 1972.
Location:- Airport Camp Belize.
Unit:- Sioux Flight Detachment 663 Squadron AAC.

A tasking had been received for a Santa Sortie to fly Father Christmas to a Children’s Party at Bird Island in Belize City. Time of take-off 1500 hours. 1500 hours arrived but no Santa. At 1530 hours a car arrived with a Santa who had been having a little too much Christmas spirit. So whilst the Sioux was started and run up to operating temp Santa was told to sit on an oil drum and wait and we would then take him to the aircraft and strap him in. This was in the days when our hangar was the Romney Hut across on the airport side of the runway near the river. Before many minutes we had several young kids standing watching Father Christmas with large bright eyes only to witness Santa loosing his beard to the exclamation of “Sod this mother-of-f******” beard. We soon whisked him off strapped him in and off to charm other kids at the party.

[noprobs]

The first Harrier detachment began in November 75, when 1(F) Sqn flew 6 aircraft out there. That detachment lasted only about 6 months, as the threat was deemed to have subsided. However, the whole operation was hastily repeated in 77, but then lasted much longer. It again began with 1(F), but the Germany squadrons (3(F) and IV(AC)) joined in to share the load from 78 onwards.

[Double Zero]

If he's not already here in some guise, try reading Jerry Pook's book on Hunter / Harrier days ( not the Falklands one for these purposes, sadly I forget the title but a good book, remarkable workload the author mostly endured ! )

which has some interesting insight into both work and play at Belize...

Right, I've found the book where Jerry Pook gives some very interesting insights into Belize, regarding both operations ( inc' dodging an oncoming hurricane ) and what to me sounds the rather dubious local pleasures and practices...

'Flying Freestyle', Jerry Pook. No I'm not his agent, and he has some nasty things to say about Harriers, but despite that it's very interesting, his workload was literally criminal if with a 'normal' employer, how he put up with it for so long is a mystery which should be subject of a medical investigation !

Back to Belize, a Harrier Test Pilot I had the pleasure of working with had a few tales of his tour/s there, including the crabs ( real not slang ) all over the runways bursting tyres, and one day he was wazzing along in his GR3 when he felt something chew a lump out of his head; fearing the worst, ie something venemous, he quickly took off his helmet and adopted 'lost radio' procedure, expecting to flake out any moment...

The culprit turned out to be a Stag Beetle, and on administering a fire extinguisher to the squadron's lids, all sorts of creepy crawlies emerged.

[Dundiggin']

Who?..........me?
PS: On the other hand it might be better PM....ing them....:rolleyes:

[xenolith]

Never did a Belize det with you but is it true that Rauls had an official period of mourning after each of you dets?:p

[Red_Phos]

Morning, (or afternoon depending on how you see it)

I was wondering if you had any info on the puma crash that happened out here. Sad to say but no one out here seems to know much about it at all.

I would greatly appreciate anything that you would care to talk about, needless to say there is very little info on what we have done in Belize.

Many thanks in advance,


Red,

[rolandpull]

I think it was 1985 when I was there as an 'Iggy Airways' mover. The Queen rocked up in a BA Tristar for a visit, with just two working engines upon landing. BA very embarrassed and so positioned a Concorde to Miami - just in case. Obviously if it was tight for a 'Ten' to turn, you can imagine that a Concorde was never gonna make it.

The fix? Send a Herk through Miami to pick up a tow bar, warn off the REME to get their 'wrecker' ready with the intention of pushing the Concorde backwards down the runway and onto the ramp - should it be needed.

Needless to say the BA engineers made good the dodgy engine, helped by a very nice set of cabin crew providing the liquid refreshments.

Professionally, I was amazed to see an Adidas sports bag with newly fashioned string handles with a 'HM the Queen' baggage label on it. I also had a run in with XV109 and a baggage truck, but that was just bad luck as I seem to remember.........

[Dundiggin']

Nah... Rauls hadn't been invented then....in my day it was the Big C (Mk1) and when that burnt down the Big C (Mk II). I remember on my return home whilst sitting down watching the TV with the kids and missus, a live report came on the TV from - would you believe it - the Big C (Mk II) in Belize (!) with the 'madam' denying it was a brothel but just a discotheque!! How I got away with the subsequent family enquiry I will never know!.........mmmmmmmm :rolleyes: I was also in Chads (next to the down town fire station) when the building next door and Chads (I believe) burnt down and the fire brigade went the wrong way down the road (because it was one-way!) and remember the lingering aroma of the fire fighters standing in the 'sweet water' canal firing high pressure turds into the fires!! Happy days.......Christ! you couldn't make this up! :hmm:

[Auntie Maureen]

Did four tours out there as a crewman on Pumas - and yes, all the stories about the Swamp are true; including the moustachioed ones blowing the doors off and the Sheriff being spotted the next morning looking for evidence of explosives amongst the 'weeds' in the front garden! Reference the sad Puma crash at Salamanca there is another thread running which contains some good info. Also remember there being a case of champagne for the first VC10 captain to make the first exit of the runway without back-tracking...despite some gutsy attempts I believe it remained unclaimed, although a few MiDs for making the second exit with style. Oh, and there was the SAR call out that resulted in a night landing at village in pre-NVG days to collect woman with complications in childbirth that ended up with junior making his arrival in the back of my cab at about 2000 feet en-route to the hospital!

Red, sadly all my photos are in storage at present but PM me if you want any more background dits.

[Ziggy911]

Hi Red_Phos

I did 2 tours back to back 1985-1986 as a techie on 1563flt Pumas. Might have a few decent photos I could email you, whats your dead-line cos I will have to dig them out.

I have 1 great image of the squad with the Puma behind us, taken in Mexico City on the pan by a news paper journo, as we attended the mexico earthquake and on arrival we were told to sit on our bums for about 10 days as the authorities thought the down wash from a Puma was to much for the damaged buildings.

1 x image of a hovering Puma while we gave it a wheel change on one of the cayes (caulker or chapel can't remember, too long ago and too many memories).

Some images of the Puma that decided to go for a swim in the swamp water (tail rotor broke)

maybe a few others, drop me a line and I will fish them out.

[baffman]

The fatal 230 Sqn Puma crash involving an officer and NCO of the Queen's Own Highlanders and six RAF personnel was in Aug 1976, some info here:

http://www.pprune.org/military-aircrew/291219-salamanca-puma-crash-site-memorial.html

[oldbeefer]

'Some images of the Puma that decided to go for a swim in the swamp water (tail rotor broke)'

I was the pilot on that flight! Scary experience when the glue fixing the honeycomb to the leading edge came unstuck in the heat. Loads of vibration and not much time to land. Dark Menace was the crewman (now a civvy rotary pilot). Seem to remember (or not) the time in the swamp afterwards!

[Ziggy911]

Hi Oldbeefer

Do you remember Paddy Payne who was taking a left seat jolly on that trip?

And how about us poor sods who spent the next few days with a sinking Puma, Chocking & Lifting, Chocking & Lifting, Chocking & Lifting (ad nauseum ) and repairing the tail so it could be flown out.

Was it you who took her back out ?

Oh they really were such marvelous times.

Tried to attach an image, but can't suss the tech.

Regards
Ziggy911

[oldbeefer]

Hi Ziggy - yes, I certainly do. First trip in a Puma for a Harrier techy (if I remember right). I was really impressed with the guys (both RAF and the pongos) who built the raft for the Puma to rest on and then did a battle damage repair job. Must say, I was a bit spooked when I saw how much cracking there was around the tail pylon. Yes, I flew her out - seemed only fair as I stuck her there! Had a great six months in Belize on that det.

[Dundiggin']

OK matey I'll bite the bullet! - let's have a look at this transgender!! :E I may be horrified now but at the time I felt certain I had compensated with sufficient alcohol....:) Mind you I may have to do some more compensating if it really was that bad :sad:! .............mmmmmmmmmm!

[oldbeefer]

Ziggy. I was there Mar to Sep 85. There was an airframes Cpl who I wrote up for a commission. This he got, did a pilots course, then an instructors course. Ended up on CFS before leaving to fly civvy. There's hope for us all!

[Red_Phos]

Ziggy,

The deadline is late june, and those pics would be terrific. esp the wheel change.

any dits to go with them would be greatly appreciated!

cheers in advance


Red

[Ziggy911]

Hi Red

I have the wheel change saved as a jpeg for you, but currently unable to access the buttons to attach image, just waiting for administrator to explain how in "SIMPLE's" terms. (maybe they are not activated as I am a newbie)

You have also started me on a mission, -- somewhere in my garage is a box full of happy snaps, which I am now detirmined to find and scan.

Regards
Ziggy

[ShyTorque]

Anyone else recall the time the Harrier pilot carrying out engine runs melted the runway right through to the limestone base (actually, it was the Harrier det. commander)? It caused quite a few diversions, including the changeover VC-10 on its way from Dulles, which had to turn back.

My crewman and I witnessed it first hand as we landed just beyond it. I'll look up the date but it was just after the new year. We taxied in to join the rest of the det for a "Happy New Year from Belize" photo on the main apron. Some of the assembled throng were due to go back to RAFG on the VC-10. Try as we might, we couldn't convince them they weren't going home that day. They took it that we were trying it on with a (not uncommon) end of det wind-up.

They soon learned the truth though when they tried to check in for their flight at the station cinema....

There was also a Puma blown over on Caye Chapel in the late 70s,.

Some years later, a certain "expert" took out a set of the then new composite Puma main rotor blades, against a palm tree, in an over-enthusiastic tight turn at very low level, during what should have been a very low-key practice airfield attack recce. Judging by the damage to the blades, the crew were extremely lucky to get away with that. In a metal bladed Puma they might well not have survived. The blade noise during the run and break (I kid you not) on their formation return to APC was "impressive" :eek:

[Ziggy911]

Hi Oldbeefer

Found all the photos of Swampy 202, couple of shots of paddy, pre re-takeoff, but you are looking away, any good to you???

Ziggy

[Ziggy911]

Hi Red

I now have 2 shots of the whhel change, - im not big on social networking so working out how to make them available on photobucket.

Ziggy

[Ziggy911]

http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x429/ziggyziggy911/Belize%201985-1986/Wheelchangeoncayechapel2.jpgHi Red

Hope this works, images 1 and 2 of wheel change

Ziggyhttp://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x429/ziggyziggy911/Belize%201985-1986/Wheelchangeoncayechapel1.jpg

[brianf51]

I was out there a few times with 33 Sqn during 76 & 77 and remember taking a few shots so I'll see if I can dig them out.

[ewe.lander]

I was there '76, in 'The Swamp'...... with Tony Bolam, CW, DMcC & DB amongst others. Flew with the immortal Lex. Handed over to our friends on XW230 (RIP). Then came back after burying them.

Great tours despite the total horror of the accident, and some great memories from both this forum & 'The Swamp'. Long before 'Rauls' it was the 'Big C', I was there the night the whole of the RAF & AAC Dets piled in (only serviceable Heli went tech so the duty Crew joined us)

We lifted the Sioux underslung off Cadenus after a 'tail slide' incident - much to the amusement of the 'Guats' - who guffawed and waved, we got our revenge when a Puma caught their 'stealth' C-47 unstealthily bimbling across Belize.

Certain AAC SNCO Pilot having enough of the Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders Parrot and dispatching it with a squash racket.....

Had my first flight with the AAC there, in a Sioux, despite a bird overtaking us as we departed ground effect, I was smitten and transferred!!

I''ll try and put my photos on here, Paul Bolam (Tonys son) also has a copy of the Flight photo in front of XW230....... Cheers.

[GGR]

I remember C130's being tech with I think brake problems in Belize. The trusty Belfast was sent with the necessary tools etc to remedy it. I was in ASCOC in 71/72. Distant memories of a very long Belfast tech stop there?? Sure someone will put us in the know.

Ferio Ferendo etc (Fcuk off Fred we're full) ASC motto

GGR

[ShyTorque]

Anyone recall the C-130 departing APC that couldn't start it's fourth engine?

After trying everything including high speed taxy "bump starts" on the runway, it took off on three with one feathered and "limped" into Nassau where they went u/s..... with a single engine failure (same one).

Not sure what the AOC would have said. But I'm sure he said something as he was on board.... :oh:

[brianf51]

I was watching that evening when the Puma brought the Souix back to APC, even bowing to the AAC group who had assembled for a BBQ.

I also remember being onboard the VC10 to go back home when it threw a turbine on rotation from APC. We didn't get very far....

[ex-fast-jets]

Oh Yes!!!

Remember it well. Sat watching with a Belikin wondering how it would be played out.

Eventually got all four rotating, but the condensation trails from the three working engines said it all. The failed engine was feathered as the gear was still retracting, as I recall. Much better hotels in Nassau in those days.

Now, Belize is a favoured spot for honeymoons.

How times change!!

[Red_Phos]

Ziggy: any pics of the swampy puma??

Guys anyone got anymore gen on the USL sioux?

[ex-fast-jets]

I was leader of a pair of Harriers in, I think, Dec 75, on an FAC exercise, when No 2 - Bernie Scott - had an engine failure and ejected. I took photos of his ejection over the sea, the aircraft crashing into the sea, and Bernie in his dinghy, using the onboard F95 PFO camera. I think they made the 1(F) Sqn diary, so they should still be there, if they are of interest to your endeavours. If interested, contact 1(F) - if they haven't been made redundant or exterminated since I last looked!! The diary for that era also had some quite interesting photos from a most entertaining several months in Belize!!

[Red_Phos]

BomberH,

Terrific, thanks for the steer. Ill touch base with them next week,

thanks again.


Red

[ewe.lander]

RP - the underslung Sioux off Cadenus was eventually dispatched to a local Scrap Dealer. Somehow the Belize City Newspaper reported it as having crashed there!! If the Paper still exists.......ask them, they produced some B&W Phots of the 'event'.

Also - talk to Ken Mead at the Museum of Army Flying, he will have photo evidence I'm sure of the better moments in Belize (but hopefully not of the 'Big C':E), I'm back there next week so will have a chat with him as well.

[Tiger_mate]

Salamanca Camp circa 1988 approx August.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3267/2740225247_153d6dcb66_z.jpg?zz=1
and a typical internal load before dangerous goods regulations went mad:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3122/2741830410_3723dfed01_z.jpg
..if there was an issue, they went outthe door...simples!
I have an album full of pics.

[jayteeto]

I was that Cpl who got the pilots course. Still flying helicopters, now with Bond on the NW Air Ambulance. Ziggy (or is it Iggy), I was there when you describe all that went on around 85-86, Tony ??? did the wheel change in the hover, I remember that. Mr Gibbs (RIP) had a tail strike on Chapel as well.
I went to Columbia for the disaster relief flight after the volcano went up. I reckon that I could write a book on the journey up and down. Including the burst ferry tank at 10,000' over El Salvador, the cabin was an inch deep in fuel and we did not have the option to land in 'bandit country'. Jayteeto is otherwise known as John Taylor, PM me if you remember me from back then. I am looking at the photo we did of the Columbia crews right now.

[Exascot]

Dagama/Sharpend

Didn't we have one do a little bit of ploughing once? It wasn't you was it Sharpend? Wasn't me.

Sharpend check my PM.

[Ziggy911]

Hi Jayteeto

If memory serves (and sometimes it fails) you were on the A shift, same as me (hut 64), natasha was the cleaner who kept pinching the food out of the fridge and got a Greg-Special sandwich as a deterrent, didnt come back to work for 2 weeks after that.


Was the burst fuel tank down to venting, if so it should never have happened as we had a similar issue coming in to Mexico (just before the Columbia trip) when the ferry tank started to crumple like a Shlitz can (remember shlitz )

Ziggy

[hum]

Happy memories from 1417 flight detachments in the '80s :)

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f318/gerryhum/PumaCayeCaulker.jpg

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f318/gerryhum/GazelleHoldfast.jpg

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f318/gerryhum/BlooholeGR3.jpg

[dagama]

Turning the VC10
Dagama/Sharpend

Didn't we have one do a little bit of ploughing once? It wasn't you was it Sharpend?

Can't remember the ploughing. Some things were best left where they happened, as long as they didn't affect the price of tea.

Dagama

[Truck2005]

"flew into Belize many times as VC10 Captain. Always a problem turning on the narrow runway that was a few feet narrower than the turning circle of the VC10".


I spent many a trip as a GE on VC10 hanging out the front door counting down the gap from the LH outer main wheels to the white edge line.
!

[jayteeto]

Oh yes, the vent was not vented!! Poor old Natasha, she was a good living girl...... she told us often enough. Her friend 'Mellie' was not such a good girl. I went back to Belize as a pilot 8 years later and Mellie was a nasty piece of work. She was the 'pimp' in Belize City and was one to avoid. Thanks for the PM of the photo in Paradise Bar. I remember the weekend very very very well!! And the weekend after that when we hired the Cessna to take us back to the islands. We stayed in George's hotel, he was a perv, but the hotel was cheap. I found a $50 on the street, rolled up with elastic and 'powdered'. It bought pina coladas all weekend. The disco across the road with a sand dancefloor, Third world was the only music they owned. Man, when people say they are going to the sandpit these days, they have got it all so wrong.

[Exascot]

Who was it that used to hold up the score cards on landing? Was it ATC or the ground crew? B@stards;)

The Harrier escort was impressive. On one occasion they asked to change sides - don't recall the 'fighter speak' for this. One slid underneath and the other rolled over the top. Don't know how legal this was but it sure made me spill my tea:ooh:

[NUFC1892]

Exascot
Who was it that used to hold up the score cards on landing? Was it ATC or the ground crew? B@stardshttp://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/wink2.gif


T'was the chaps from Butcher Radar:D

[Exascot]

T'was the chaps from Butcher Radar

Thank you NUFC I remember now - actually I was unfair with my comment about them they usually gave me good scores as well as an excellent service :cool:

[MReyn24050]

Who was it that used to hold up the score cards on landing? Was it ATC or the ground crew? B@stards
I think you will find that the RE Detachment, who were based in Airport Camp adjacent to the airport boundary fence also had a hand in that. I recall a direct order being given to them not to mark the landing of the British Airways Lockheed Tristar bringing HM the Queen to Belize for her visit in 1985. Normally when the weekly VC10 arrived the REs would hold up placards marking the landing out of ten.
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c67/sabamel/QueenvisittoBelize1985.jpg
Arrival of HM the Queen's Tristar seen from 25 Flt location, Butcher Radar I believe were located to the right of the road passing between the gates..

[gayford]

I was at Butcher Radar 1977-78 and we scored all VC10 arrivals (some were Landings!!!). On one occasion the arriving aircraft bounced heavily and we scored it with 0.1 and 1.0. The pilot immediately queried the marks to which I replied "Wait till you see the marks for your second landing" !! I was invited to meet with the senior officer pilot soon after the aircraft had shut down.
34 years ago and still great memories....

[MReyn24050]

Normally when the weekly VC10 arrived the REs would hold up placards marking the landing out of ten.
34 years ago and still great memories....

But then thinking about it it could be that the RE Detachment was given a direct order not to "moon" the arrival.

[brianf51]

Dug some out but they're a bit faded.

http://www.simshed.co.uk/belize/1976-1.jpg
http://www.simshed.co.uk/belize/1976-2.jpg
http://www.simshed.co.uk/belize/1976-3.jpg
http://www.simshed.co.uk/belize/1976-4.jpg
http://www.simshed.co.uk/belize/1976-5.jpg
http://www.simshed.co.uk/belize/1976-6.jpg
http://www.simshed.co.uk/belize/1976-7.jpg

I think all taken in 1976 but may have been 77

[Fareastdriver]

Most likely Nov 76 onwards. XW 210 was in the UK up till then and it and XW 210 and 207 were both in Belize in March 1977.

[brianf51]

The shot of 207 landing at San Pedro was taken in March so it would have to have been 1977 then.

[ShyTorque]

Normally when the weekly VC10 arrived the REs would hold up placards marking the landing out of ten.

The score cards were changed. There used to be only two scores given.

MAGIC

or...

CRAP.

I think one VC10 Captain formally complained (probably because he only ever received the latter score).

[Ziggy911]

Pictures of HRM on the PAN

Securiity looks good with Tom Dick and Pedro just wandering about.


http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x429/ziggyziggy911/Belize%201985-1986/Slide1.jpg

http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x429/ziggyziggy911/Belize%201985-1986/Slide2.jpg
http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x429/ziggyziggy911/Belize%201985-1986/Slide3.jpg

[Exascot]

Pictures of HRM on the PAN

Typo Ziggy : HMQ

[Ziggy911]

My apology

[Exascot]

Hand back your KCB

[Ziggy911]

When she waved her hand I thought she was beckoning me forwards, I thought "Hello -its my claim to fame time", then I realised she was wafting away the smell of the sweet water from the belikan factory, either that or my coconut aftershave..... needless to say NO GONG in the offing.

[oldbeefer]

Or that 90% Coconut suntan oil!

[Ziggy911]

Jeez that stuff was like mazola, you could feel your skin getting crispier as the smell of roast pork filled the air.

Were you there when Boss Hay or Boss Derb were there or are you one of them??

got a couple of shots of the day they swapped over.

Ziggy

[oldbeefer]

Yup, I took over from JD in March 85 (I think). Wonderful 6 mths after that!

[oldbeefer]

P.S. Still having dodgy moles cut out after the Caribbean sun. Averaging 1 a year so far!

[oldbeefer]

P.P.S - would appreciate some pics.

[Ziggy911]

Just a couple of images of the swing fog.

Waiting until it was switched off then watching the winged critters just spiral down to the hanger floor, crunch crunch as you walked to the fridge for a stim.
http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x429/ziggyziggy911/Belize%201985-1986/Swingfog1.jpg

http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x429/ziggyziggy911/Belize%201985-1986/Swingfog2.jpg

[Dundiggin']

About that time we still did 6 week detachments..........and were still flying two crew.......fabulous!
Setting the scene: Big army exercise with Harrier and Puma support. Everything down to split second timing. Flying ultra low level down a river two Pumas line astern. 'Smokey' Joe and me watching the Boss Adrian W$ll (ex Red 10) + crewman flying ahead taking leaves off the trees both sides of the meandering river trying desperately to make the split second timing on the river bank DP. Arrive at DP, nicely on-time and very low and slow only to find people swimming in the river opposite the DP. Ah well here goes; 'tail clear right' swimmers in water duck under surface to avoid Puma tail rotors. Spray everywhere. 'Clear forward and down to land on' Unfortunately the swimmers had left all their clothing in neat piles on the DP! Result all clothing scattered to the horizon and in the water (sorry folks unavoidable). Harriers wazz low over the top at a rate of knots attacking something :E. Boss transmits 'Follow me' and ahead of us was a high-ish medium sized bridge over the river - 'Smokin' Joe and I watched as the Boss flew under the bridge (!) :E 'This wasn't briefed... oh well he is the Boss, so we "followed him".
On return to APC in for a de-brief. The Boss walked up to 'Smokin' Joe and I and said 'Well that was interesting' at the same time looking rather sheepish with a quizzical sort of questioning look on his face. 'How's that then Boss?
'Well the bridge - you know' the Boss replied. 'What bridge was that?' replies 'Smokin'. 'You know....the bridge we went under' says the Boss looking even more suspicious.......:uhoh: 'Well' says 'Smokin' 'let's put it this way Boss........we know you went under the bridge!'

:cool: Cue burst of laughter.....:ok:

Oh How we loved Belize!.........:ok:

[oldbeefer]

Still flying two crew when I was there in '85.

[Tiger_mate]

Two crew lasted until Gulf War part 1 in 1990.

[Wiretensioner]

For a short while in 81 we flew with two pilots up front. Coming back from a Friday BGS at FL nice and cool the crewman woke up to discover the pilot asleep. So from on high it was decided to fly with two pilots. Couple of months later coming back from a BGS the captain wakes up and discovers the other pilot, crewman and most of the passengers asleep.

Went back to single pilot and crewman not long after.

Wiretensioner

[MReyn24050]

Exascot wrote:-
The Harrier escort was impressive. On one occasion they asked to change sides - don't recall the 'fighter speak' for this. One slid underneath and the other rolled over the top. Don't know how legal this was but it sure made me spill my tea
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c67/sabamel/HarrierescortintoBelizeInternational-1.jpg

It certainly was impressive. Made one feel very special, especially as I was on my return trip after a number of years. :)

[oldbeefer]

Strewth - how some of these comments/pictures roll back the years. Swing fog - remember him strolling through the bar while we were having a Beliken - never forget the smell (of the swingfog or, come to think of it, the Beliken).

[Exascot]

MReyn nice photo. You were lucky, on one occasion I had to ask them to pull out a bit (please) they were alongside the flight deck and seemed to me to be inside the wing span. I wasn't as cool as them! Anyway they call themselves 'fast jet pilots', sorry boys but my jet cruised faster.

Slightly off thread but I was once flying a bunch of schoolchildren back from their UK boarding schools to RAFG. We couldn't get a civi ATC slot so went for military routes. I was asked if I minded a fighter intercept. I thought that the kids would love that. They were about 10 miles off when they informed me that they were live armed. :mad: I am sure that there wouldn't have been an incident but just think of the headlines the following day if that had got out. Nice thought, but 'no potato'.

[Red_Phos]

Ladies, Gentleman.

Firstly thank you to all that have taken the time to help me. I greatly appreciate your efforts!!

Secondly, are there any steely eyed army aviators out there that will tell me their story??

I am currently short on army dits. I am aware of a FAME shout conducted by a gazelle to pick up a Belizean woman who was in labour. The trip saved both the mother and child and to show their appreciation the parents named the little girl 'gazellia' or something along those lines.....any truth in it???


Cheers

Red

[ShyTorque]

Strewth - how some of these comments/pictures roll back the years. Swing fog - remember him strolling through the bar while we were having a Beliken - never forget the smell (of the swingfog or, come to think of it, the Beliken).

Same memory here. We nick-named the Swingfog operator "Sammy Davis Junior" because he looked very much like the one-eyed singer. I've often wondered how much his lifespan was reduced by his continually breathing in so much DDT, or whatever it was that thing chucked out.

One Sunday night we were ordered to carry out some night flying circuits by a certain Sqn Ldr. Were were not impressed as we wanted to watch the film on the outdoor screen round the back of the O.M. The same Sqn Ldr was watching the film!

We flew downwind northside over the mess, shining the searchlight on the screen. ATC eventually got a phone call, telling us to knock it off as it was whiting out the film.... :E so we knocked off night flying.

[oldbeefer]

Can't imagine anyone ordering NF on a Sunday - usually too 'pickled' from the day on the Cayes!

[Chicken Leg]

I am aware of a FAME shout conducted by a gazelle to pick up a Belizean woman who was in labour. The trip saved both the mother and child and to show their appreciation the parents named the little girl 'gazellia' or something along those lines.....any truth in it???

It was c1996 and the pilot was Inch High QHI (or Booboo!). RR if those names don't help!! No idea if the naming part of the story is true.

[Chicken Leg]

We flew downwind northside over the mess, shining the searchlight on the screen. ATC eventually got a phone call, telling us to knock it off as it was whiting out the film.... so we knocked off night flyin

You guys sure were crazy!

[Flying Microphone]

Quote:
I am aware of a FAME shout conducted by a gazelle to pick up a Belizean woman who was in labour. The trip saved both the mother and child and to show their appreciation the parents named the little girl 'gazellia' or something along those lines.....any truth in it???
It was c1996 and the pilot was Inch High QHI (or Booboo!). RR if those names don't help!! No idea if the naming part of the story is true.
Chicken Leg is offline Reply

I can confirm the naming story. I filmed a story for BFBS in 2003/4 when the little girl in question visited 25 Flight on, what I'm guessing, was probably her tenth bithday. Giselle (spelling?) was the name her mother gave her because of the helicopter.

Do the Flight still ring the bell for Captain Julian Pooley (whose family publish the flight guides), who died in a RTC in 1994?

Cheers

[Red_Phos]

Flying_M

Brilliant, Ill try and chase up some more details....

Yes we still ring the Bell. As we return to the UK the Bell will go back in our new bar and his memorial will go to the remembrance garden at the Museum at Wallop.

[ktk]

Nice pose Hum!
Swing fog. Not many organophosphates there then!!!!
In addition to 1(F) sqn diary you could of course speak to 3(F),4(AC),33,230 Sqns.

[Dan Gerous]

Did two tours in Belize, in 81 and 84. On the 81 trip, we went up to Salamanca to play the Ghurkas at football and volleyball. There was only one pilot flying that day, and our WO had shotgun on the spare seat. While surfing the net the other day I typed in Ambergris Caye, and the place looks nothing like it did in 84. Obviousley it is due to the increase in tourists from the states, and there is a proper runway there now. I'm rubbish at judging distances, do any off you know how long the runway is, and what is the biggest aircraft to land there? Only ever landed there in Cessnas.

[Tiger_mate]

Airport Characteristics
Lat/Long: 17.913936 deg N / 87.971075 deg W
Elevation: 4 feet (1 meters)
From city: Near San Pedro, Belize
Time zone: UTC -6
Max Runway: 3500 x 60 feet (1067 x 18 meters)
Surface: ASPHALT

Cessna Caravan
Pilatus PC12 made the first international arrival after Customs installed.

[Fareastdriver]

The overshoot is still the same. You stick your hand out of the window and pull a beer off a bar.

[Dan Gerous]

Thanks Tiger.

Danny

[Red_Phos]

Gentleman,

I am currently writing on the HarDet of 1417 flight and I am chasing up the accidents that the flight endured. I am struggling to find information on the pilots who were sadly lost.

XV807, was lost on 14 July 1981 on a training sortie can anyone help me in finding the pilot's identity?

DISCLAIMER: I do not wish to write about a fatal crash without being able to name our dead. The history I am writing is about the people who served here and I wish to get the details right!


Thanks in advance,

Red

[ktk]

Initial JC.
FAC exercise near to Belmopan I think.

PM me

[hum]

1981 | 2389 | Flight Archive (http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1981/1981%20-%202389.html)
:sad:

[Diablo Rouge]

IIRC the Harrier pilot in question (Flt Lt John Clark) was detached in from IV Sqn Gütersloh. He was one of lifes good guys. It was a long time ago but my recollection is that he hit a jungle ridgeline that would have been hidden by a distant* horizon. Not sure what the BOI conclusions were regarding contributing factors but I dare say it is in the public forum somewhere. It was at a time when jets falling out of the sky was a common occurance; testiment if needed that our Flight Safety protocols of today are pretty good.


*Flight in Belize during daylight would pretty much always mean black visor down.


AL1. From the tinternet: Tailplane linkage disconnected and control lost - 1417F1t Georgeville Belize


AL2. (Wiki)
1 Dec 1975 XV788 Engine problems due to bird strike
26 May 1981 XW923 Belize River Loss of control during short take-off
July 1981 XV807 Georgeville CFIT (Controlled Flight into Terrain)

[Tassie Brian]

Thank you Diablo Rouge for your kind comments regarding John Clark.

I'm not too able with computers but with the help of Google was doing a search about John and found this site. It's a sad anniversary for three of my former classmates who met premature ends in 1981.

I grew up in Lancashire and when I was 14 we moved house, so I ended up changing schools. You can imagine that I became the "newboy", and it presents some of its own problems.

We were at St. Mary's College, Crosby. Our form master was none less than Ray Boggiano who served in Lancasters in WWII.

156 Squadron RAF (http://www.156squadron.com/view_aircrew.asp?pCrewId=2040)

The first pupil to greet me was John (D) Clark, and like you wrote he was one of life's good guys. He sat in front of me. He was in the school's AFC.

When it came to games days he was excused to go to RAF Woodvale, near Southport where he would go flying, along with Tony Larkin, who sat next to me in class.

We'd be playing rugby and we'd be listening for the sound of the Chipmunks and sure enough John and Tony we fly over and dip their wings.

John's partner at his desk was Peter Morris, who used to run cross country with me. The four of us were good friends.

We all left in 1972.

We occasionally caught up but 1981, yes 30 years ago, all three of them were killed in the space of a few months.

Tony, who'd also become a professional pilot, died in a helicopter crash in Indonesia I think, John went in July, and Peter slipped when he was walking up Mont Blanc in the August.

I still shudder when I think on it, but thank God I knew them, and I'll always be greatful for the welcome John gave me.

Best wishes

Brian

[pailot77]

Hi Guys,
Do you have some information about Belmopan Aviation ltd. ?
Do you know home's base and any opportunity to join the career as pilot ?
I didn' find any link about that.

I hope to receive a couple of information

Thanks

[pedroalpha]

At the time of John's very sad accident, I was a crab driving an AAC Scout toward APC from Rideau I think when I received a call to divert to the crash site to assist and report. The crash site was very obvious as I drew closer and the trees were flattened sufficiently to allow me to land close by.

On my return to APC later that afternoon, I joined John's peers in the bar to drink to his life and times using his bar number to foot the bill as is tradition. We received a certain amount of abuse from the resident battalion for our lack of consideration for the departed and they left later in disgust. We however laid John's ghost and cherished his memory in a way that he would have been proud of.

I have many happy memories of Belize and was fortunate enough to fly both Scout and Puma during my several detachments there
Pedro

[Canadian Break]

As the title suggests - it's a long time ago but I seem to recall a certain Bionic Budgie pilot who went by the moniker of "Slats" had a rather quick return to the UK/Germany and a severe "hats on" with someone terribly senior for a rather low, fast and inverted pass down the runway - or did I dream it all?