Turbine time, Fixed wing VS Helicopter

[DC3freightdog]

The Heli Expo in Orlando was a great learning experience. After attending the Flight Instructor Refresher Cours I went to the Job fair like hundreds of other pilot/instructors.
When I handed my CV to several different company representives they asked about my turbine time. Well I have over 600 hr turbine time BUT most in fixt wind. I was told that fixt wing turbine time does not count.
Why not?? You can do a hot start in a fixt wing or torque and temp out in a fixt win aircraft as you can do inb a helicopter.
Any one has a good explanation?
Looking forward to your toughts.

Bernie

[EBCAU]

You'll run into that one if you try to go the other way as well - RW to FW. :ugh:
It's probably because of the prejudices held by those in powerful positions that do not have the multi role capability themselves. It could also be the ruling of insurance companies poorly advised by such people.

Like you, I fail to see why there is no recognition. There might be some differences in the flight characteristics between piston and turbine powered machines but these should be addressed at type endorsement level. If you have flown a turbine anything you are further down the road to understanding the principles, and the different manner in which they deliver their power, than someone who has not. Even the transition from piston to turbine is held to be some sort of magical rite of passage requiring superior ability.
It's all a load of bollocks!

[FlightPathOBN]

I believe the poster is saying "fixed wing time" vs rotary wing time...

not turbine vs rotary time....

[Gordy]

Maybe I can give both of you a different perspective. There are more technicalities than this but by bringing it back to basics will get the point across that I am trying to make.

In a fixed wing, the engine is primarily used for speed vs lift. Yes I understand that speed is lift....but look at the worst case scenario---if you mismanage your power on an airplane, you can still glide down and land.

In a helicopter, the engine is used primarily for lift---with the cyclic you choose where to direct that lift. If you mismanage your power at low level it generally ends in tears.

As for the difference between piston and turbine. Things are changing slowly---in the past there were very few piston helicopters that could carry more than 2 people. So generally, when you transitioned to turbine helicopters, your "insurance risk" increased more because of the cost of aircraft replacement and the number of passengers you could carry rather than the engine itself.

As one of those that could be percieved as being in a "powerful position" by the fact that I do hire pilots, I can tell you that there are certain requirements placed upon contracts. For example--to get carded to fly on government contracts you are required to have 100 hours in turbine helicopters. ( See HERE (http://www.fs.fed.us/fire/contracting/helicopters_cwn/helicopter_contract_cwn.pdf) )

Handing out a resume at a job fair is different than sending it to a company chief pilot. At a job fair there are hundreds of people---one way to cut down on the amount you receive is to filter out those with no turbine time. Also by sending out resumes to a particular company, one can tailor the information to that companies business. I receive numerous resumes weekly, (in the U.S. please call it a resume and not a CV), and attempt to answer them all personally---I believe I even responded to one form you Bernie recently. There is nothing worse than people who state words to the effect of:

I feel my qualifications will be an asset to your company.

And then they do not even meet the minimum requirements to get carded. Oh, and while on the subject, it also goes a long way to do some research and tailor the resume to the business you are sending it to. Address the chief pilot by name in your cover letter,---after all, you figured out the e-mail in order to send it in the first place......

Another pet peeve of mine is those who feel their superior managerial skills will help them rise to managerial positions. Most times we are looking for a "line pilot"....get in, fly, get out, no more.

I may write a load of bollocks! but take it or leave it.

[griffothefog]

Gordy,

Excellent post....:ok:

You missed out the "we drink beer and eat p*ssy... live with it :E

But seriously, I like the down to earth management style.. it is what it is..

GTF.

[EBCAU]

Forgive me but I thought that the OP was just wondering why his turbine FW experience didn't count at all towards RW turbine requirements and therefore nothing to do with how qualified he may, or may not, be to fly a helicopter as opposed to an aeroplane.

I got that from:
"Well I have over 600 hr turbine time BUT most in fixt wing"
Note: he didn't say "all."

In case you are wondering, I have 40yrs in the game so I'm not another frustrated beginner needing a break to get into a turbine. In fact for me it's good to have the ever increasing demands for experience these days. I fit most of them and can demand more money because I'm getting increasingly hard to replace :ok:.
I've been lucky to have flown both FW & RW. If the choice came down to two pilots to fly my turbine helicopter, and one had flown turbine FW, I'd look still look closely at that individual - all other things being equal.

I just don't see the "magic" required to be able to fly a turbine anything. They are just expensive to stuff up. Preventing that comes down to an individual and their training as much as magical hours in a turbine helicopter only. The OP already has shown he is capable of doing the tricky bit, such as starting a turbine, to the tune of 600hrs. What does the airframe it is in really have to do with that?

I didn't see this as a FW versus RW flying capability argument. Just the powerplant differences.
Perhaps the OP can clarify what he meant if I have got it wrong.

[bb in ca]

Does the real reason have more to do with category of aircraft then actual engine type?

Going from a very light piston helicopter doing what may be (not all I know) basic commercial operations (ENG, photo, pipeline patrols, etc...) to a light or intermediate turbine with more demanding operational requirements (precision long line, high altitude mountain landings, night ops outside a city environment, IFR, arctic etc...) may be what the people doing the hiring are considering more so then the ability to push a starter button and watch TOT's rise.

Either way keep building your resume and getting strong letters of reference and you'll be turning down turbine jobs in no time.

Good luck!

[DC3freightdog]

ALCON
Thank you for your input. Maybe I was not very precise with my question.
I meant turbine fixt wing vs turbine helicopter time.

EBCAU
Thank you for reading my post and referring to my question. This is a very rare still in the internet age were many people just post bla bla in response to get their post ratings up.

Gordy
If you are a HAI member you most likely got my resume. I applied for a pilot position and not for a management position. I mention my management experience because it is relevant. Management/ report writing skills are important regardless if you work for a helicopter operation, bakery or FLETC. Do you like to get a note from a pilot on the back of an fuel receipt "engine broken" or do you like to get a report what hapend in which situation with torque x and temp y?
Your excurse speed vs lift was interesting. Maybe you can also elaborate about the HOTSTART difference, helicopter vs fixt wing eg how would a PT6 start different? Since you have 695 posts you could make a constuctive contribution.

BB
reference letters: I enclose an FAA statement that I have no accidents and incidents with my application. This should say something if you are a licensed pilot since 1983 and have a clean record. Also I have character and professional references. However I only divulge certain references after initial contact for OPSEC reasons.

It appears that once you are over 40 you become overqualified and unemployable. Maybe some managers are insecure and afraid that an aviation professional with 20 years experience detects their mistakes and doesn't believe in some of the management fairy tails anymore.

fly safe
Bernie

[Aser]

Maybe you can also elaborate about the HOTSTART difference, helicopter vs fixt wing eg how would a PT6 start different? Since you have 695 posts you could make a constuctive contribution.

It appears that once you are over 40 you become overqualified and unemployable. Maybe some managers are insecure and afraid that an aviation professional with 20 years experience detects their mistakes and doesn't believe in some of the management fairy tails anymore.

fly safe
Bernie



Wow... if you talk like that... I don't think the problem is that you are overqualified.
:=

[Gordy]

DC3freightdog

Gordy
Since you have 695 posts you could make a constuctive contribution.

You really want a constructive contribution? I could post your cover letter and resume, but I will not do that without your permission. So I will just generalize for you.

If you are a HAI member you most likely got my resume. I applied for a pilot position and not for a management position. I mention my management experience because it is relevant.

Firstly, nope, I look for line pilots not managerial types. As part of our on-going personal and professional development program, I will develop those skills to any pilot working for me who shows those skills.

Your managerial skills are quite lacking as you sent a resume and cover letter addressed "Good Morning", and yet the resume was sent on "Thu 1/20/2011 3:32 PM". I understand that it would be a good salutation if you did not know the name of the person. If I was to hire a manager, I would look for someone who at the very LEAST was able to look at my company's website and determine who the key players are. I assure they are not hidden. You sent your resume to MY e-mail, which actually has my name in it. Even if you were to do a mass e-mailing, you can set it up in MS word to change and input individual names on the e-mail.

Management/ report writing skills are important regardless if you work for a helicopter operation, bakery or FLETC. Do you like to get a note from a pilot on the back of an fuel receipt "engine broken" or do you like to get a report what hapend in which situation with torque x and temp y?

That is not a managerial skill---I expect that from a straight line pilot. (Or even a bent one.....lol).

Your excurse speed vs lift was interesting.

I thought so..... albeit extremely basic.

Maybe you can also elaborate about the HOTSTART difference, helicopter vs fixt wing eg how would a PT6 start different?

I have no clue, as I do not fly fixed wing. The whole point of my thread was that I believe it is not about the type of engine, but about the size of the aircraft, the missions accomplished and the insurance risk.

I went back and looked at your resume. By looking at my company's website, (which I just noticed needs updating), HERE (http://www.reddingairservice.com/), you can clearly tell that we do NOT operate any airplanes. Most of your resume highlights your managerial and airplane experiences, and almost mentions you have a helicopter license as a side note. This again shows lack of preparation and attention to detail. I really recommend you change your resume and not sent out mass e-mails.

If you would like, I can post your resume and we could all give you some hints and others could maybe learn also.

Edited to add:

I think if you look back on my 696 posts you will see that like many people on here, I really do attempt to be constructive---albeit with a slightly warped sense of humor sometimes....:cool::rolleyes:

[[email protected]]

A résumé (pronounced /ˈrɛzʊmeɪ/ REZ-oo-may or /rɛzʊˈmeɪ/; French: [ʁezyme]; sometimes spelled resumé or resume) is a document used by individuals to present their background and skillsets. Résumés can be used for a variety of reasons but most often to secure new employment. [1] A typical résumé contains a summary of relevant job experience and education. The résumé is typically one of the first items, along with a cover letter and sometimes job application packet, that a potential employer encounters regarding the job seeker and is typically used to screen applicants, often followed by an interview, when seeking employment. The résumé is comparable to a curriculum vitae in many countries, although in English Canada and the United States it is substantially different.

In English, resume means to go back to doing something after a pause.

Is it because yanks can't spell curriculum vitae that they use resume (without the accents)??;)

[Two's in]

To answer the original question - although they are called résumés (without the poncy accents) here because no-one can spell CV.

In a FW turbine when the engine decides to depart its governed range, it can be moderately exciting but some prompt action leaves you in relatively controlled flight trying to resolve the power plant issue, assuming it's not a single. In RW turbine a governor excursion can immediately under or overspeed the Nr, and in the case of a twin, the load bearing engine may droop Nh, Ng, etc, thus masking the intial symptoms of the malfunction. If you don't recognize, identify, analyze and rectify the malfunction in a short space of time some amazingly bad things are likely to happen.

Governor runaways up and down are good simulator fodder for this very reason, because on the day it has to be an instinctive but analytical response. Any failure to apply the correct measures rapidly will exacerbate the problem (Nr departures) and could take the remaining engine out of normal limits while it's already working at max contingency to keep you in the air.

As for starting a turbine, it's largely academic whether its connected to a Main Rotor or a prop during the start cycle - a lot of modern start control units and FADECs are far more sensitive and responsive than some dead-eye dick watching the EGT scream throught the red line.

[helopat]

I hate to devolve into irrelevancies, but how hard is it to spell "fixed" vs "fixt" and "wing" vs "wind".

I know, I'm an ijit for mentioning it but a quick browse over spelling etc just gives the whole thing a bit of polish.

HP


The Heli Expo in Orlando was a great learning experience. After attending the Flight Instructor Refresher Cours I went to the Job fair like hundreds of other pilot/instructors.
When I handed my CV to several different company representives they asked about my turbine time. Well I have over 600 hr turbine time BUT most in fixt wind. I was told that fixt wing turbine time does not count.
Why not?? You can do a hot start in a fixt wing or torque and temp out in a fixt win aircraft as you can do inb a helicopter.
Any one has a good explanation?
Looking forward to your toughts.

[thepross]

Well I have over 600 hr turbine time BUT most in fixt wind



To be upfront, you don't have the qualifications for a PIC position in most 135 operations. Not putting you down, but the Insurance adjusters are ruling the requirements...

[ShyTorque]

spelling etc just gives the whole thing a bit of polish.


I thought it was already written in Polish. :E