Do We Really Need Cadet Schemes

[Low and Fast]

How many non flying skilled pilots are out there looking for a job?

Is there really a pilot shortage, or just a myth?

Is the story of there being a "Pilot Shortage" only said as an excuse so cadet schemes can start up?

And do you think cadet schemes are a quick grab for cash at the personal expense of the young naive student?

[mcgrath50]

Note the following is personal opinion from observing these cadet schemes over the last 5 or so years.

There is no pilot shortage (in Australia), it's a marketing gimmick. Pre-financial crisis there was if you wanted to contract overseas working for carriers, let's say, without the 'prestige' of Qantas. Since the GFC students are being fed 'it will pick up shortly, and you'll be ready to jump on the wave'. Bull****. There is no easy way, it may be a bit easier to be in the right place at the right time but it will still be luck, who you know and how you present yourself.

Cadet schemes. Are they needed? in short no. Are they damaging (for the industry and student)? Yes and no. J*, most certainly, Rex, probably, Sharp, probably not, Qantas no.

[The Kelpie]

McGrath

WRT the Sharp cadetship the evidence given by the Sobey's was nothing but a gripe about not qualifying for being able to offer FEE-HELP. Sharp disclosed their turnover at apprx. $16m, I wonder how much of that is generated by Gen Y's signing up for their cadetship?

They want the ability to offer FEE-HELP assistance to provide a route for them to sell dreams to young kids and get access turnover funded by the public coffers.

My Grandad once told me 'Where there is money, there is someone trying to get their hands on it!!'. This is very true. The art of becoming rich is identifying a source of money and then devising a method by which to channel it in your direction.

Mr Sobey went on to tell the Senate Inquiry that the cost of their cadetship cost $100,000 and Mrs Sobey testified that there was a job at the end of it.

My sources tell me that there is a job at the end of it, so no lies there but what was misleading is that Mrs Sobey did not disclose that the job offerred at the end of the cadetship was one of ground ops / baggage handler with the carrot of getting a shot in the RHS of a Metro.

I think the Senator assumed that the job at the end was a job that reflected the $100,000 of training that the individuals had just paid for!!!

Just another example of where evidence of individuals has been tainted to reflect the commercial interests of the organisations they represent.

As I have said, cadet Programs are marketing gimmicks to keep the cash flow, turnover and profits up. I hope the Senators see through this smoke and mirror act and realise the Pilot Training and what goes on is one of Australian Aviation's dirty little secrets. Especially when it is paid up front, something that those who have been stung will know too well. You just get buggered about.

More to Follow

The Kelpie

[mcgrath50]

My assessment of sharp was luke warm simply because it's not that much more expensive than the local flying school, you do get some sort of a job for 12 months and they seem to look after you while you are there. After the twelve months though you are basically no better off than a local flying school cpl but it doesn't seem to be as damaging to the students or industry. Compare that to the situation the J* cadets find themselves in, its not that bad ;)

[The Kelpie]

Point Taken McGrath.

But still a crock!! as it gives a false promise that is likely to affect the aspiring pilots decision on which school in which to spend their money.

The Senators were not familiar with their setup but how Mr Sobey could suggest to Senator Heffernan that their operation was similar to the Rex setup in Wagga Wagga is absurd.

Misleading, Misleading, Misleading :=

More to follow

The Kelpie

[TriMedGroup]

Just how is the sharp cadetship different than any other? They are just schemes designed to maximise profits while keeping safety at a just acceptable standard. Surely if these people who are doing the cadets a "favour", actually wanted to help then they could pay to train them. Why are they so expensive??? My CPL + ME CIR + a few other goodies cost me $55,000 two years ago. That was at a flying school that was making a decent margin on everything, probably in the region of at least 20%. Why couldn't these organisations at least get the candidate up to CPL level at "cost" price, then employ them, and any further training could be claimed at tax time - as an accountant I make an average pilot but surely anyone can see that doing things this way would cost a lot less than the $100,000 that seems to be the norm.

As for the do we need cadetships question, well ignoring the fact that we self funded single pilot IFR chaps are damaged goods, then no way. I reckon I know enough people with airline minimums and then some to fill the requirements for the next year. They are stagnating in the jobs that the people flying barons, shrikes, Navajos etc are more than ready to step into. The people in the the piston twin jobs are more than ready to make way for the people with 6-700 hours bashing around lake eyre and the Kimberley in their 210's. And there is enough jobless CPL holders with <500 hours to fill the void that would be created in entry level jobs for a very long time.

Has anyone considered the flow on effect for the many commercial flying schools that will be left without students because the only way to progress anywhere in the industry is if you are a cadet and are not "tainted" by general aviation. Prospective pilots are going to apply for cadetships, then if rejected take their $60k and get a leg up in life as a tradie. Maybe do a PPL and fly on the weekends. Don't think many kids out there have posters of Navajo cockpits on their walls and are thinking "oh one day I'm going to fly that and that will be as far as my career will go because I can't afford to do my training the way the airlines want it"

Anyway I've forgotten what I actually started taking about because i don't know how to scroll up when typing on my iPhone.

Oh and lastly Go The Kelpie.

[The Kelpie]

trimedgroup

An excellent post and the idea to devise a scheme to benefit from tax write-offs is a great idea as on these cadetships all training is carried out pre-employment and is therefore not eligible to be written off against tax.

I take your point about the level of expertise in the industry, we just do not have any hard facts and therefore no information on which to determine a way forward to the future safety and sustainibility of the Australian Aviation industry.

The Inquiry should maybe ask CASA, on it's behalf to undertake a survey of all it's CASA Flight Crew Licence holders (maybe online) to establish the facts such as how many hours they have, endorsements, looking for work / not looking for work, aspirations next 12 months. This information would help the Senators make informed decisions whether Cadetships are necessary due to the scare tactics originated from Flight schools that the next shortage is on it's way.

This is an aside to the question of whether cadetships put sufficiently experienced crew into the RHS.

More to Follow

The Kelpie

ps we should post a cross reference to the Jetstar Cadet thread and Senate Inquiry thread as I see so good discussion here.

[beat ups are fun]

Do We Really Need Cadet Schemes
Answer: NO!

Tri Med has hit the nail on the head, and said it beautifully. There has never been a pilot shortage, and there never will be. An experience shortage however, is something completely different

Cadetships will damage the industry long term. I really hope that we can get the government to put in place the same "1500 hour" requirement that the FAA has just brought in.

P.S. Kelpie, great work on the J* cadet thread

[mcgrath50]

1,500 hours isn't really all that much. Most people in GA seem to be doing at least 500 hours (most more) a year. That's 3 years in GA before a crack at an airline. Most people spend longer than that in GA anyway. The QF cadetship requires 2 years in GA, considering this is supposedly a short cut 3 years in GA to an FO position seems a good balance. It would put a stop to the likes of jetstar though.

[Waghi Warrior]

Yes we need cadet schemes,but what we don't want is operators abusing the privilage and ripping people off.

Kelpie, good work mate and I fully support you.