Skywest advertises for ATR East Coast crews

[GAFA]

In today's Australian Skywest are advertising for the following ATR positions;

Training and Checking Captains
Fleet Manager
Manager Line Ops
Line Captains
First Officers

Looks like they are looking for time on type.

[training wheels]

Can you copy and paste the add here mate? Would be interesting to see what their minimum requirements are and how they differ from Virgin Blue's. Cheers.

[Skynews]

Australian Federation of Air Pilots - test page - 2 (http://www.afap.org.au/html/s02_article/article_view.asp?id=98&nav_cat_id=127&nav_top_id=73)

its here

[GAFA]

East Coast based ATR72 flight crew;

ATR72 Training and Checking Captains
ATR72 Fleet Manager
ATR72 Manager of Line Operations
ATR72 Line Captains
ATR72 First Officers

It is essential for applicants to meet the following critera;
Australian ATPL or eligible for an Australian ATPL under the Trans Tasman Mutual Agreement
For Training and Checking positions, ATR Simulator Training and Checking qualifications
Recent ATR experience (within previous two years)

That's it, looks like they are targeting Mount Cook pilots and Toll Pilots. The last requirement for Recent ATR experience doesn't really say if it applies to Line Capts and FO's positions, if it does it will knock out most pilots who wanted to get in early.

[Hanz Blix]

Terms and conditions????

[Mr. Hat]

New trend Hans.

Advertise for position before publishing conditions.

[HomeJames]

That's it, looks like they are targeting Mount Cook pilots and Toll Pilots.


Rather. I do believe that Heavilift had some 42-300's as well.

[GAFA]

Sorry Homejames, forgot about Heavylift.

[10000FT]

Initial commands will first go to the guys in skywest perth who want to move, up to 10 i believe (seniority sys), then external guys with exp on similiar sizes - esp command. Then there is the checkies.

Unless u have any of that, prob expect to be an FO for quite a while. then at anytime if a guy from perth wants to come over for a command they will get it before u, again seniority - a lot of perth guys are waiting to see how it goes then most east for a direct command in 12 mths or so.

good luck to all who get in:ok:

[Xcel]

10000ft

no internal advertising or information being given to current drivers over west...

Might be attempting the usual divide and conquer tactics. Or could be just seeking out the loose experience before coming back to guys wanting to switch...

[RENURPP]

Before we all get too excited, consider how this may work.

Virgin contract Skywest to do the flying, WHY? Because they will do it cheaper than Virgin will, along the same lines as Cobham/Qantas.
Skywest have to make a buck so even though they are providing crews at a reduced rate to Virgin, Skywest will still have to make a buck and that comes through reduced terms and conditions. One would expect at least 10% less than if Virgin employed you, probably closer to 25%+

I would expect, but don't know, that the ATR will be under a completely different AOC and probably different business unit. The different AOC protects the company in the event of problems. i.e. Bending an ATR or an old F100 will not bring the whole pack of cards down.

So what will that mean to us pilots?
Terms and conditions will probably be considerably lower than Skywest Airlines are currently on.
Maybe there will be absolutely no progression from one part of the company to another. The Cobham guys employed over the last 5 yrs approx, on the 146/Dash8 are not entitled to change to the 717 and vice versa as they are seperate entities.
Along with independent business units will come completely different agreements, if your lucky the TWU will get in their and provide some protection. I hope so and good luck!

[GAFA]

You could be on to something RENURRP re the T & C as I have heard some numbers for Captains pay and it is less than current FK50 pay.

Xcel, any idea from crew room talk how many guys would put their hand up for a command on the East Coast?

[framer]

Whats the current FK50 pay packet then?

[10000FT]

It wont be less than the F50 pay. From wat ive heard company wants fleet pay - ie ATRs will be at same rate as F50s. And pilot body is going for an increase in pay for the ATRs - given its bigger, then maybe bringing F50 up to that for fleet pay

[GAFA]

Thanks for clearing that up 10000FT, I did find it hard to beleive the pay would be less considering how good the current EBA and all the work the Skywest Pilot body has done. If the 72 does replace the FK50 in the west than you would think they pay would go up to match the size of the aircraft.

Current First year FK50 Captain is on a base of $97,244 and this will increase to $101,134 on the 1st of July.

[sled_driver71]

RENURPP

Do u know how long it takes to get an AOC?

Won't they have to employ an new HOFO, MOLO etc?

[RENURPP]

Do u know how long it takes to get an AOC?


Yes I do know, first hand.
I have been well and truly involved in new high capacity AOC.

They also have to add the ATR to their current AOC and that is no small task either.

I didn't say it would happen, I said it may.
I watch this site am amused that any thing that sounds good is immediately swallowed with the ensuing excitement, often only to be dissapointed shortly after. Don't believe anything to do with aviation until you are sitting in the flight deck starting the engines, and then hope it lasts.

All the "i've heard"s above are simply runour until the ink dries. Most of all wonder why Virgin would out source the crewing if they could do it themselves. Answer $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Skywest are simply a crewing/engineering company in this deal.

All I am saying is relax and wait, because things may not be what you imagine them to be.

[Chadzat]

I watch this site am amused that any thing that sounds good is immediately swallowed with the ensuing excitement, often only to be dissapointed shortly after.

And then there are the doom merchants who jump up and down that the world is caving in and everyone will be employed on J* Cambodia T's & C's. Works both ways mate, almost better to say nothing at all really...

Also what exactly do you mean by-
One would expect at least 10% less than if Virgin employed you, probably closer to 25%+

Do you mean if employed on an e-jet? Then yes you are pretty spot on, I wouldn't expect to be paid the same to fly an ATR as an e-jet.

[Hugh Jarse]

All the "i've heard"s above are simply runour until the ink dries. Most of all wonder why Virgin would out source the crewing if they could do it themselves. Answer $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Virgin contract Skywest to do the flying, WHY? Because they will do it cheaper than Virgin will, along the same lines as Cobham/Qantas.
Skywest have to make a buck so even though they are providing crews at a reduced rate to Virgin, Skywest will still have to make a buck and that comes through reduced terms and conditions. One would expect at least 10% less than if Virgin employed you, probably closer to 25%+ It's not often that I disagree with you, RENURPP, but in this instance I have to say you're incorrect.

Without going into commercial-in-confidence, I can assure you that the flying was not outsourced as a first priority, and certainly not for the reasons you allude to. ;)

[RENURPP]

I'm more than happy to be wrong. I have absolutely no knowledge of what is planned.
I did only say may, I didn't say it would happen as I suggested.

No need to get upset. Time will tell of course.

[Hugh Jarse]

Not upset at all, mate. Just trying to inject a little truth into the story.:ok:

[cac_sabre]

http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r68/sabrejet/skw3s.jpg

[RENURPP]

So what is going on, I hear the TWU is at the IRC re terms and conditions on offer?

[GAFA]

TL refueller tells me the EOI from within Virgin Australia for training and check secondment to Skywest on the ATR has exceeded what both companies thought it would be. Looks like more pilots are chasing lifestyle rather than big jet flying.

[aussie027]

I see ATR positions were advertised on 23Nov with a closing date of 30th Nov and now again today with a 2 week window.

I was just curious as to how many applicants and with what experience levels they are getting, does anyone know???

Was surprised to see another advert as earlier in the year there seemed to be many well qualified t/prop Capts and FOs, some with ATR time all applying for these positions.
I figured they would be swamped in a week with at least 1-200applications, ( probably the same as for Perth based positions??)

[ranmar850]

What was the Virgin-liveried '72 doing in Perth late last year? Spotted parked up as I came in on a charter. Never saw it again.

[Jenna Talia]

HSC is not an issue if you have gobs of experience and turbine time.

[ASY68]

ranmar850 What was the Virgin-liveried '72 doing in Perth late last year? Spotted parked up as I came in on a charter. Never saw it again.


Most likely on its delivery to XR.

[Stiff Under Carriage]

They must be pretty picky!

Over 7K with over 50% Turbo Prop and C&T experience. HSC over 90 points, not even and acknowledgement of my application!

[dreamjob]

I think the requirement for "A minimum of 2 Instrument Ratings" may cull a few applicants!:}

[bubble.head]

Does anyone know where I can find the terms and conditions for the ATR crew? I can't seem to find it on the AFAP's website nor the Skywest's.

[MELKBQF]

Does anyone know where I can find the terms and conditions for the ATR crew? I can't seem to find it on the AFAP's website nor the Skywest's.

On the last page of this document.

http://www.fwa.gov.au/documents/agreements/fwa/AE882623-2.pdf

[Fonz121]

Beats the Qlink salary (FO).

[Fuel-Off]

Base salary yes...but the Sunnies EBA is pretty condition rich, which helps top up the pay packet every fortnight :) Late evening holding into Brisbane is helping crews with the call in allowances that's for sure :E

Fuel-Off :ok:

[Chadzat]

Has a better single aisle regional jet salary as well :ok:

[Schmoostyler]

Anyone had emails or phone calls from HR yet?

[Afterburner1]

Yep, got a call from HR today regarding an upcoming interview :-)

[mpl_yz250]

Likewise, got a message on my message bank to return their call for an interview.
Anyone who is a current driver there or been interviewed in the past who could shed some light on the assessment process you please PM me some info?

[Pith Helmet]

A few mates have also received phone calls so the deal is on!
Good luck fella's, we need to see airlines hiring as the industry is really stymied.

[mpl_yz250]

Hey people, any one been through the latest round of assessments? If anyone could PM me some info of the process that would be appreciated.

[training wheels]

Any updates on Skywest recruitment for the ATR? Are they still recruiting or are things on hold at the moment?

[KRUSTY 34]

AFAIK, still only around 9 aircraft. If they expand to the originally planned 18, or further still to the now rumoured 30, it should result in a feeding frenzy!

Should!:suspect:

[VH-FTS]

Last I heard there was 11 in service (could be 12 or 13 by now) with an ATR72 600 due from the factory every six to eight weeks from here on in. Two mates started in Feb after December's round of recruitment, and ground schools kicked off in Dec, Jan & Feb. A lot of FOs waiting to be trained, so doesn't sound like anymore recruitment for a (little) while. No more 457 pilots - training them took way longer than expected and seems like it was a very costly experiment. The total ATR order number is 35-odd these days, no longer 18.

[pithblot]

Re the 457 pilots. Someone said that would happen. Years ago.

There should be some seriously good career moves ahead for those in the right place at the right time.

[one dollar short]

Last lot of advertisements for the job included "generous staff travel entitlements" anyone actually know what they are ? Just thinking about if it would be possible to commute .....

Cheers.

[Shamrock 75]

Hi folks,

About 1 year ago, Skywest did recruit a number of experienced EASA licence ATR capts & f/o's, might they go down this route again ??
With all the planned expansion, recruiting experienced ATR pilots in this part of the world maybe a problem ??

Regards

Shamrock 75

[sled_driver71]

From someone on the inside, there are VERY limited, if any, staff travel entitlements for Skywest employees on Virgin aircraft.

And on employing more 457 chaps to fly the ATR. Just ask the CFO about what happened to his bottom line and ill think you'll find the answer you're looking for..........................

[j3pipercub]

Sorry shamrock, it seems that it was a once only offer. The company panicked and employed all the 457 visas. These guys (who were very experienced ATR pilots) took quite a bit more time than was expected to get checked. As a result, it is highly doubtful they would go down this route again, as what was intended as a 'quick fix' came back and bit them quite hard.

This is secondhand info and happy to be corrected by the 'Alpha' team.

j3

[one dollar short]

Re staff travel.

What about thier own aircraft ? Ie Sydney to Canberra ? Surely they could because it is after all a Skywest aircraft. Can anyone let me know ?

Cheers.

[Roger Greendeck]

The ATR seats are owned by Virgin not Skywest so staff travel on those is by interline, with all the nause that goes with it. Even that has been an issue since Dec. It may change with the purchase by Virgin but there have been no promises made.

Like any rapid expansion there are opportunities but there are teething troubles that don't exist in a more established operation. Horses for courses but overall it's can best be described as a pretty good place to work.

[Mach E Avelli]

Hopefully by now they have deduced that a competent locally-experienced Metro or King Air pilot can be trained to fly an ATR 72 in less time and for no more money than it costs to import a 457 visa person who just happens to have some prior experience on type.

Then the Metro and King Air operators will lose pilots in droves and need to come to grips with the concept that a competent Chieftain or 402 driver can be trained to drive their space shuttle turboprop, and the guys with Chieftains etc will just have to learn to trust the Baron and 310 sprogs....etc etc. As it was in my time and as it should be.

There is not a transport category aeroplane ever built that could not be mastered by a competent aviator after some endorsement training and ICUS. Concorde pilots were not exceptional - just senior enough and lucky enough to be in the right place at the right time.

Complain to your local MP about 457 visas for pilots.

I see a certain SAAB 340 operator still fishing on some overseas jobsites, too.

[Pucka]

You guys ought to be less judgmental on 457 crews. There are many Oz pilots operating out of Europe that were embraced openly...sadly, this doesn't appear to be the case in Oz..xenophobia possibly? I guess it goes all the way to poor Labour Govt mandates that include visa entry for Brits, FIRB for UK residents to buy property and incredibly strict work visa protocols to boot. maybe you should be welcoming Afghan and Sudanese pilots with similar bias??

[VH-FTS]

Really, an Aussie pilot can rock up in France or Spain and expect to get a job ahead of the locals? Xenophobia is not unique to Australia, so pull your head out of your ass.

People are concerned about 457 visas when there are still plenty of local pilots around who could step into the right seat of a SAAB or ATR (for the right price). In Skywest's case I think they just went down the 457 path to quickly increase their pilot numbers with experienced ATR pilots. However, it backfired spectacularly and I've been told a year on there are still guys not checked to line due to bottle necks and various other reasons.

In most cases, the use of 457 visas (not just in aviation, look at mining too) is to alter the natural supply and demand of labour. Why pay good Aussie pilots (or other workers) more to attract them to the company when a bunch of desperate foreigners are willing to work for much less? European pilots are so desperate for a job they are forking out tens of thousands of euros for an Airbus or ATR endorsement, then are willing to work for free to get their first 500 hours up. I guess most of us don't want aviation to go down that path locally.

[neville_nobody]

There are many Oz pilots operating out of Europe that were embraced openly...sadly, this doesn't appear to be the case in Oz..xenophobia possibly?

Embraced probably because they were high time and the people they were up against were not. I don't think to many 300 hour pilots from Australia knock off jobs in Europe.

What has happened here is that XR have imported labour because someone thought it would be cheaper to pay for the conversion than pay high time turboprop pilots to complete an endorsement. They were wrong.

So we now have foreigners taking Australian jobs that could have quite easily be done by a local or a Kiwi for that matter.

[Capt. On Heat]

What has happened here is that XR have imported labour because someone thought it would be cheaper to pay for the conversion than pay high time turboprop pilots to complete an endorsement. They were wrong.

And/Or because CASA required it as part of the rapid expansion......

[Pucka]

Besides the arguments of the local industry soaking up the lads from Oz and Kiwi, my point remains..there is significant bias against foreign crews ..as for the perceived advantage in longterm of training up local Ozzies as opposed to rebreeding experienced ATR European guys..it still doesn't stack up. Even if the latter crews take a marginally longer time, mostly through admin, (CASA et al..infamously as bad as uk CAA), their wealth of experience pays dividend in the long term. The European theatre is vastly different than Oz. FCS, pop an Ozzie Controller into LHR and see the result: separation distance in SYD is a joke and always has been. Couple that with the vigorous resistance of most Oz based crews to think out of the box??...with very few exemptions..380 etc.
And as for low houred ATR/Dash pilots..I seem to recall in the heady days of Air Arran, a bulk of the guys were from Oz..same with ex Air Wales and Fly B.
Ultimately, its all about give and take. We all learn in this industry and its about time we cross fertilised this experience sensibly and with the pragmatism of fairness.
Ooops..hornets nest possibly!!?

[pilotchute]

I want to know who all these Aussies are flying around Europe who don't have a passport giving them the right to live and work in the EU. A very small percentage may have been hired in the 90's when it was a bit easier to stay in the EU but it was also a bit easier then to stay in Australia.

A very high percentage of Australians hold passports by either being born in the EU or having one or both parents born there. Most of the people I went to high school with had overseas born parents.

Will everyone please stop with the whole "Aussies taking jobs in Europe" thing cause it isn't true. 99% of these people I would say already had an EU passport before they got a CPL.

If you don't have an EU passport you cant work in Europe. No exceptions.

[Servo]

And/Or because CASA required it as part of the rapid expansion......


Have heard that line used before, sounds like bull**** to me, just another excuse for the company to get away with it :ugh:

[training wheels]

Anyone know how many ATRs will be arriving this year? And do VARA have an ATR72 sim in Australia or if not, where will the sim training be done?

[Paul Alfred]

I believe its done in Singapore Training Wheels......apparently its heavily booked with some crew waiting for a few months to start their endorsement.

[VH-FTS]

There's an ATR 600 sim in Singapore and Toulouse, with the 500 sims in Auckland, Toulouse and Johannesburg. I might have missed one though.

No endorsement training is done in Auckland though, as ATR provide the Skywest/VARA training themselves and the NZ sim is not owned by them. Word from crew there is it isn't the initial endorsement that's the hold up, it's the later line training meaning they're sitting around for quite some time.

[SHVC]

VHS-FTS your post is 100% spot on, initial type qualification is done soon after getting the nod, but line training does not begin 8-12 months after as the training department is backed up.

[BPA]

So you get the nod, do your endorsement and then sit around (getting paid) for 8-12 months? Can't see that continuing now big brother is paying all the bills:confused:

[gutso-blundo]

BPA - its not done as a matter of policy, simply a lack of training captains. This is being fixed as a priority right now. The wait time mentioned here is a little exaggerated - 3-6 months is the current average.

[training wheels]

Does this also mean recruitment has been put on hold for the time being?

[DeltaT]

Looks like it

Virgin Australia is not currently accepting applications for Flight Crew on our Embraer and Boeing fleets

Nothing about the ATR on the website.

I just got the reject email :{

[Pilotshumornetwork]

An email regarding the ATR?

[DeltaT]

Yes for the ATR.

[Pilotshumornetwork]

Sorry to hear that Delta. It's never a good feeling. Would it be possible to PM the process that you just went through with VARA.

[DeltaT]

lol, all I did was fill out the online form!

[Pilotshumornetwork]

Geez, must have made an impression? :ooh:

[DeltaT]

Yes, probably the heavy turboprop time I already have. :rolleyes:

[Pilotshumornetwork]

That will do it

[Hailstop3]

Sounds like I'd be hardly in with a chance then also DeltaT.

Sorry if this has been covered, but can anyone point me in the direction of the EBA that covers the ATRs? I have looked through the VA and Skywest but I couldn't see anything in them that related to the ATR.

cheers

[j3pipercub]

http://www.fwc.gov.au/documents/agreements/fwa/AE882623-2.pdf

Very last page, appendix E.

j3

[KRUSTY 34]

What's the current number of ATR's in service with VA/SkyWest now?

If the projected numbers required are anything to go by, serious recruitment must be just around the corner?

[SHVC]

12 Krusty and recruitment has been steady for 12 months, are you looking for a job are you? Plenty going.

[KRUSTY 34]

Not at this stage SHVC, but by the tone of the thread things appear to be a bit slow at the moment?