R1 Withdrawal

[KPax]

Just seen on breaking news on BBC that 2 Nimrod R1's will be kept in service longer than planned, problems with RJ or common sense.

[Lyneham Lad]

The content on the BBC website states:-

Two spy planes due to have been scrapped at the end of March are now to be kept in service for at least another three months, the BBC has learnt. The Ministry of Defence has declined to comment on whether the decision is related to discussions on setting up a no-fly zone over Libya.

The Nimrod R1s are sophisticated spy planes currently deployed in the Middle East. Crews have now been told they will continue in service until June.

The two planes were due to have been officially retired at a ceremony at RAF Waddington in Linconshire on 31 March. But crews at the base have now been told that will not happen and that the planes will continue in service until the end of June at the earliest.

The Ministry of Defence will not comment on the decision beyond saying that in the current circumstances, it is assessing if it might extend the life of what defence experts say are crucial assets.

Earmarked for potential use over Libya presumably?

[Biggus]

So, are they going to "un-sack" some of the civillians who provide support services for the R1 who have been told their services are not required as of 1st April 2011?







Let alone re-negiotiate support contracts which have been let lapse, or are we assuming there are enough spares available to get by for another 3 months?

[draken55]

Will the remaining F3's run on as well?

What about the Frigates to be chopped by 31 March?

SDSR still valid;)

[Vim_Fuego]

How about the end of service parade that was planned? Will that still be stealing some hours of my life as fragged?

[G-CPTN]

Have the Harriers been cut up yet?

[TEEEJ]

Vim_Fuego,

http://www.pprune.org/military-aircrew/439305-nimrod-r1-out-service-function.html#post6296270

TJ

[bit-twiddler]

So, are they going to "un-sack" some of the civillians who provide support services for the R1 who have been told their services are not required as of 1st April 2011?

Let alone re-negiotiate support contracts which have been let lapse, or are we assuming there are enough spares available to get by for another 3 months?

The few remaining support staff haven't been sacked as such, but moved into the redeployment pool and advised to apply for the release scheme, so there are still a few around the area. The extension causes some problems though as they now mightn't get the dates they want for their early release - if they can be bothered to stay after the way they've been treated that is. The circumstances have also now altered from when they filled their forms in so there might be issues there. You also have to take funding and office space into account as both would have been earmarked for other groups.

As to the spares issue, there should be quite a few bits left over from the maritime fleet but it might lead to potential situations such as an aircraft scrapping being cancelled the day before it was due so they could take some bits off it..... :oh:

Now if only someone could have seen this coming :ugh:

[NutLoose]

I does raise the question if the SDSR deemed they were no longer needed........ WHY...

Are we basing our current armed forces strategy on the assumption that a localised disturbance close to Europe will never happen in the window between Nimrod disbandment and it's replacement coming on line... puts the Carrier fleet and Harrier decisions into perspective too.

[pr00ne]

NutLoose,

The SDSR didn't deem that they weren't needed at all. It deemed that the capability provided by the R1 would be replaced by 3 RC-135 Rivet Joints, and that while they were being converted in the US that 51 Sqn crews would fly on USAF RC-135s out of Mildenhall.

I guess that this extension is only until those crews are deemed CR?

Now, which bunch of clowns thought that we could get by with such a capability gap, that's a different matter, but I guess those folk wear blue...

[onemac]

I'm sorry Mr Museum sir - you can't have the aircraft in April........ We're still using it :eek:

Al

[Willard Whyte]

onemac, no doubt those who might arrange for the transfer of frames to a museum are forgetting the inevitable penalty clause for late delivery...

[G-CPTN]

BBC News - Final farewell for decommissioned warship HMS Ark Royal (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-12706441)

[maxburner]

It's tempting to blame the minister for this cock-up, but he was advised by the Air Force Board who must have said that we could tolerate a capability gap.

[SRENNAPS]

So is anybody (and I mean anybody) hanging their heads in shame, muttering the words “I got it wrong” and then resigning…..or is it a case of hindsight is a wonderfull thing excuse:ugh::ugh:

[Jackonicko]

People who really ought to know keep suggesting to me that there are specific capabilities that will be 'gapped' as a result of the R1/RC-135 swap, but that there is at least one capability that will be reduced/lost as a result, the latter being one that's especially relevant at the moment.

Unless the assumption was that we would never go up against a 'formed state' adversary, with some kind of IADS, ever again, the R1 was always going to be missed.

And some of the most recent 'operational updates' from Afghanistanistanistan seem to have been blowing the R1's trumpet unusually loudly, while an American chum gave me a mild rebuke when I suggested that the R1's Comint capabilities were significantly behind those of the Rivet Joint.

It's nice to think that the old girl will go out riding high, with a bit of a bang rather than an embarrassed whimper.

[Madbob]

It's always the way we do things.:ugh::ugh:

Rembember GW1? Swansong of the Bucc and Victor. Gone, but fondly remembered, like the Jaguars, Harriers, Nimrod MR4s which we could all do with right now! (and the people that went with them.):=:=

MB

[NutLoose]

But the RAF Jaguars from Cosford will be flying again soon......well sort of ;)

[hello1]

Think that you'll find that we decided to retire the R1 on 31 March 2011 well before this government got into power. For once we can't blame SDSR for this hole.

At least there is a replacement inbound which will probably arrive on time, cost what we agreed to pay for it and do what any other RJ does.:)

[Dengue_Dude]

I wonder why that happened . . .

[bit-twiddler]

hink that you'll find that we decided to retire the R1 on 31 March 2011 well before this government got into power. For once we can't blame SDSR for this hole.

At least there is a replacement inbound which will probably arrive on time, cost what we agreed to pay for it and do what any other RJ does.

I believe the original OSD was 2012 and there was a briefing where people were told that it was agreed to be extended to 2016. One month later the same person briefed that the OSD was now 2011.

Rumour has it the decision to retire the R1 on that date was due to an offer that was made along the lines of "well if you retire it then you could use the money you save by not having to support it to get the RJs delivered a bit earlier". Pure speculation of course.

As to 'delivering to cost' I'm sure they included the cost of infrastructure changes to Waddington when they considered the deal. ....

[MrWomble]

Before I continue, I'm not after any information considered sensitive by anyone about the R1...I'm just curious about the history of the fleets.

However, given that the R1 spent most of its time in service alongside the MR2 I wondered how much engineering and contractor support from the MR2's operations was shared by the R1 fleet? Was airframe servicing done by a common pool of engineers etc? Were Nimrod airmframe operations considered totally different or were the R1s a "mini-fleet" within the MR2 world?

I guess that leads to my second question about how similar, or different, were the two airframes? I'm not talking about what's inside, just the structures. I know some of the R1s were built as R1s whereas the Nimrods were Comets first etc. Were they radically different when it came to their structures?

[getsometimein]

The R1's were converted MR's... To the best of my knowledge

Same engines, very similar fuel/hydraulics etc.

As for servicing, I wonder if the R1's are covered for maintainence for these 3 months and dont require any 'expected' work.

[MrWomble]

Thanks for the answers so far, I'm guessing the R1's bomb bay doesn't open either?

[getsometimein]

Same engines
no they're not. MR - Spey 250. R1 - Spey 251

Funny how engines were packed up at Kinloss to be sent to Waddington since they weren't needed at ISK anymore...

The bomb bay doesn't open, its full of "gubbins"... Which is of course the technical term.

[Cpt_Pugwash]

Mr Womble

"I know some of the R1s were built as R1s whereas the Nimrods were Comets first etc."
The Nimrods were never Comets (apart from the 2? prototypes). The fuselages were built at Broughton and trucked over to Woodford for assembly as Nimrods.