Post Traumatic Trauma

[WannaBPilot2011]

I was caught up in the tsunami in Thailand in 2004 and as a result have suffered from Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. Basically, I went to my doctor and was referred to a psychologist who helped me deal with what I had seen and been through.

Now I want to be a pilot but I'm afraid my medical history will be a problem. I'll be training in Europe. Do you think I will get the appropriate medical certificate with my history?

Thanks.

[phantomlurker]

probably best asked in the medical forum...

[onetrack]

PTSD sufferers have a reduced ability to handle stressful situations. Not necessarily those same conditions related to the event that created the PTSD.
As regards your medical, a lot will depend on the severity of the PTSD, and what are the initiating factors that bring about the inability to deal with the current stress conditions.
You really need to personally examine how you would go in a high-stress situation, such as a serious in-flight incident, which threatens your life.
Your ability to deal rationally and calmly with ongoing emergency, stressful situations, may be compromised by the PTSD.

[WannaBPilot2011]

Thanks for your answer, onetrack. I actually have a high-stress city job at the moment and it hasn't been a problem for me. Perhaps this is best asked to the European guys but isn't it just theoretically possible I just don't tell them about it or do they actually check into my medical history files?

Thanks.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Never, but NEVER, withold anything from the medics. To put it another way, would you be happy if your wife and kids flew with a pilot who had lied about a medical problem?

Getting stressed in "the city" is not the same as dealing with depressurisation at 35,000 feet, or something similar.

I hope you will be OK, but please play the game properly otherwise you might achieve your ambition...... but regret it later.

[onetrack]

No-one should be able to access your medical history without your approval or knowledge. You need to give permission for that to happen, or you need to provide "all relevant medical information" when requested.
If you withhold information that is relevant to your job application, you may find yourself in deep $h!t later on, particularly if an incident happens.
Better to be up-front about any potential factor that is relevant to your job application... and having been treated for PTSD, is relevant in any medical examination for job fitness... particularly where you are contemplating a job where peoples lives are in your hands, and reliant on your correct decision-making, under extreme pressure.

[WannaBPilot2011]

OK. But, hypothetically I could just fail to inform them? I'm interested. When I worked in Saudi I had to have a full medical disclosure to get the visa, from childhood to present. This isn't the case with becoming a pilot? They ask you questions and they take your answers in good faith? Because now I'm genuinely intrigued.. I could have been committed for 6 months and they wouldn't know unless I told them? Seems like a porous system to me.

[gingernut]

It does have to said that the outcome can be very good with the correct help. More here Post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) (http://guidance.nice.org.uk/CG26)

I expect the certifying authority would require some expert opinion, taking into account duration, severity, co-morbidities etc.


As for the "wife and kids" test, reckon I'd go for the pilot with well assessed and treated ptsd, than say, a smoker.

Good luck.

[homonculus]

'Getting stressed in "the city" is not the same as dealing with depressurisation at 35,000 feet, or something similar'.

Medically true! Long term extreme stress can kill, but short episodes appears not to have significant risks in the fit person ie pilot. Only in films do fit people keel over with heart attacks.

So I would suggest that the two jobs from this perspective are similar with the city job being a higher risk and if someone can cope in the city they will be fine in the cockpit.

[Bealzebub]

This isn't about "stress," it is about "disorder!" Traumatic stress as a result of an accident or incident or exposure, isn't uncommon. It is the severity and long term repercussions that become the subject of the assessment and treatment.

There are obviously aspects that are entirely incompatible with the role of a pilot, and these may be subtle or masked. There have been serious incidents where PTSD has been a significant factor, having either not been recognised, assessed or treated previously.

Stress is a coping mechanism, and is often fundamental to survival. It is only when that stress isn't working as it should, that it may require treatment to stop it becoming damaging.

To answer the posters question. No I don't think a history of treatment for PTSD for an isolated event will in any way be disqualifying, provided that the treatment was succesful and the condition related to a defined occurance. Post traumatic stress is almost a universal condition. The disorder arises as a result of the time taken for that stress to subside, and the circumstances and manner in which the stress manifests itself.

As with most conditions, it is about the individual as a patient, not about the individual as a pilot. There are certainly many conditions that may be disqualifying, but succesful treament for a singular incidence such as this one isn't likely to be one of them. There are many pilots currently certified with a history of investigation, diagnosis and treatment for PTSD, to qualify the point. However as I already stated, it depends on the individual patient, and the assessment of their AME and relevant medical professionals.

[WannaBPilot2011]

Can anyone answer my question in Post #7?

[Bealzebub]

Yes. If you fail to disclose on your medical application something which is relevant, you could find yourself in a very unpleasant place. Notwithstanding a possible prosecution for a fraudulent application, you would almost certainly run the risk of of losing any benefit gained. God forbid you should ever be involved in an accident or incident where your medical history and subsequent disclosures would provide an opportunity for an insurance company to absolve their own potential liability and loss.

The question wasn't answered because it was a fairly stupid "hypothesis," and because as already explained, the condition when properly treated or assessed would probably not be disqualifying.

Oh and by the way....

You are welcome!

[ei-flyer]

HEATHROW DIRECTOR,

To put it another way, would you be happy if your wife and kids flew with a pilot who had lied about a medical problem?

Ah, that old chestnut. My answer, in this scenario, would be - "Yes, so long as that pilot was assured in his own mind that he was mentally and physically fit to carry out his or her duties."

PTSD is something no doctor can know about you - only YOU know in your own mind. It is wrong to lie, but if you don't feel you are being deceptive, then fail to mention it at your own risk. I was diagnosed with Asperger's Syndrome aged 8 because I was smarter than all the other kids and was bored, so pi**ed around all the time. Did I mention it on my medical application? Did I hell.

:cool:

[homonculus]

I think WannaB actually asked if it was a flawed system because it relied on honesty, not whether he would get into trouble as a result of lying....

The answer is not as simple as you would expect WannaB - there is no reliable medical record system in the UK. General Practice produces as near as we can get, but anyone can 'restart' their record and GPs often do not pick up medical episodes for various reasons - emergency admission and wrong GP coding, private treatment etc. Moreover, the Government's national computer system, apart from wasting £1700 for every man woman and child, has driven a considerable number of people to being LESS honest than before and to developing pseudonyms. The recent proposed legislation to allow 200 agencies access will not help.

In the absence of a state system that is reliable it is hard to see what else can be done. In fact most people are very honest, even when honesty costs them their job. The real problem is that most people, pilots included, dont know the significance of their medical past, and often dont know the diagnosis. I suspect 99% of non disclosure is totally innocently undertaken.

And despite the soothsayers of doom who tell you that hell will freeze over if you lie, I am not aware of any individual who has been proescuted for non disclosure. Does anyone else? The insurance issue is a different matter but there has to be adequate proof and if the policy holder is dead, that isnt easy to prove.

[AnthonyGA]

Ah, that old chestnut. My answer, in this scenario, would be - "Yes, so long as that pilot was assured in his own mind that he was mentally and physically fit to carry out his or her duties."

When it comes to mental illnesses, relying on the pilot's assessment of his own condition may not be prudent.

[Sir Niall Dementia]

I was treated in the UK for PTSD following an accident and a series of fairly horrible incidents over the previous twenty years. I think I knew what was up even before my medical was pulled and I was sent to see Prof Cunningham at the CAA in Gatwick. I had lived with full blown PTSD for two years and although outwardly seemed ok inside I was in a right mess.

Six months of Gordon Cunningham's treatment saw me back to flying and a further six months got the two crew restriction lifted and certificate of sanity removed from my license.

PTSD is like a monster living in the back of your mind all the time. The treatment I had was gentle, in parts and pretty bloody in others. One point of interest for me was that when the two crew stipulation was removed I was told that a person who had had PTSD and responded fully to treatment was more likely to be able to deal better with high stress, traumatic events than a person who had never had such an event before.

Don't lie on your application. Getting caught may lead to a medical check, but may also lead to an employer questioning your probity and getting rid of you.

In the case of Heathrow Director I would have thought ADHD was almost an essential in his job!:ok:

SND