Military // Prison Officers!

[Al R]

http://www.defencemanagement.com/www.defencemanagement.com/www.defencemanagement.com/www.defencemanagement.com/www.defencemanagement.com/www.defencemanagement.com/www.defencemanagement.com/www.defencemanagement.com/www.defencemanagement.com/www.defencemanagement.com/www.defencemanagement.com/www.defencemanagement.com/www.defencemanagement.com/www.defencemanagement.com/www.defencemanagement.com/www.defencemanagement.com/www.defencemanagement.com/www.defencemanagement.com/www.defencemanagement.com/www.defencemanagement.com/www.defencemanagement.com/www.defencemanagement.com/www.defencemanagement.com/www.defencemanagement.com/www.defencemanagement.com/www.defencemanagement.com/www.defencemanagement.com/www.defencemanagement.com/www.defencemanagement.com/www.defencemanagement.com/www.defencemanagement.com/www.defencemanagement.com/www.defencemanagement.com/www.defencemanagement.com/www.defencemanagement.com/www.defencemanagement.com/www.defencemanagement.com/www.defencemanagement.com/www.defencemanagement.com/www.defencemanagement.com/www.defencemanagement.com/www.defencemanagement.com/www.defencemanagement.com/www.defencemanagement.com/www.defencemanagement.com/www.defencemanagement.com/www.defencemanagement.com/www.defencemanagement.com/www.defencemanagement.com/www.defencemanagement.com/www.defencemanagement.com/www.defencemanagement.com/www.defencemanagement.com/www.defencemanagement.com/www.defencemanagement.com/www.defencemanagement.com/www.defencemanagement.com/www.defencemanagement.com/www.defencemanagement.com/www.defencemanagement.com/www.defencemanagement.com/www.defencemanagement.com/www.defencemanagement.com/www.defencemanagement.com/www.defencemanagement.com/news_story.asp

Thousands of soldiers to be trained to run prisons as the Government prepares for strikes, page 1 (http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread667259/pg1)

Where on earth are these thousands of spare troops coming from? Those far better paid, and far more insightful than us have already stated that there are 'too many' :hmm:, but are they all sitting around somewhere.. all doing nothing? You can imagine it.

"Right, listen up at the back. You'll know by now that we don't want you. Yes.. we have had to regretably smash your careers, your pensions, your hopes and your future prospects. And we're sorry for that, really we are. But it was Gordon's fault. However, before you go, can we forget all of that? You see, we'd like you to be spat at and sued, and then you can go."

The thing is.. undoubtably, our lions lead by donkeys will step up to the plate again.

[DERG]

A long time ago, very long time all my family were in the military and they were all very conservative and very well looked after in every way. When that side married into another bunch of outright lefties..commies as it happened nothing changed.. still got the pension etc.

As I read the military posts on here it always strikes me how most of you. perhaps not all, are/were natural conservatives Tories and Royalists. I do not wish to be rude but was it not plain to you back in say 1984, when the Tories turned on the miners that something was not quite right with that political method and the way the police were used agin the civil population?

Did that not scare you the way the police, a para military home office agency, was used agin the common man? Looking at the renumeration and pensions for current police officers compared to the enlisted military does that not tell you just where the threat will come from in future? N Korea?

What it tells me is that the government values the police more than it does the military. The threat is no longer EXTERNAL ...No! The Threat is from within.:suspect: You are no longer required.

So now they make you redundant. Is that any different to when a coal miner lost his job when they closed the pit. They know you will not riot even though you could easily organise that, so what stops you just walking out now? You still feel loyal to the government or the Queen..or has that gone?

[Al R]

My insight is 8 years out of date now, but I suppose the typical profile of someone who joins up and who immerses himself in a uniformed and disciplined group of like minded people he would willingly fight with, is not to be defiant. Reasoned, intelligent and questioning - yes. But defiant to the point of riot.. probably not. The typical Crab too, is probably far more left field than his army counterpart.

Finally, you don't fight and die for your Queen, your sqn, your government, your country, your family or your village pub. You do it for your mates - you need to realise that.

[Pontius Navigator]

DERG, an interesting comment.

You suggest that the Services are actual or closet rightists. You say it went to ratsh1t in 1984 which was when, I believe, there was a Conservative Government - 27 years ago?

Now we have a Coalition Government and you then say government values the police more than it dose the military and that to me STINKS.

If my math is up to it, in that 25 years we have had a Conservative Government for 13 years, a Labour Government for 13 years and a Coalition for almost a year.

They all formed Governments supported by a large number of voters.

If you are against Government, and have been since 1984, that makes you an anarchist. I do not believe Anarchists won many seats in any election.

[cazatou]

Odd really - my recollection of that Period is that the Police were deployed to enable Miners who wanted to work to do so. It was the "Flying Pickets" organised by a rabble rouser who caused the trouble.

I fail to see, however, what this topic has to do with Military Aviation.

[AR1]

I don't know if anarchist is the right way of putting it.
I joined up under Labour in the 70's and was happy to do so, I was 'bought' by the Conservatives in '79, and was more than happy with that arrangement... And yet watched my family get biffed in South Yorkshire as Margaret took on the NUM (read her book).

The Tory trick in '79 was a cracker, and got our police and servicemen on board with pay rises to show how valuable we were, yet at the same time having the moratorium on defence spending and cutting carriers. Margaret was just a few month from history taking a completely different view of her premiership.
I personally felt I was part of a conservative with a capital C organisation, yet rapidly shifted my allegiance at the social change being inflicted upon us. Did it make any difference to the 'service of my country' - No. But to assume that all servicemen are 'pro government' would be incorrect.

This time around there's no such slight of hand, but you join up, you know the risks and you get paid for it. It's no different outside, except I dont have a contract that they have to buy out. My company has gone through the recession making losses like you wouldn't believe, but we hung on with the staff we had and returned to profitability in the last quarter of 2010. Two weeks ago, they pulled the 11 of us into the office and said projections for one aspect of the business were down and two of us would have to go.. In profit and NOW we have to go? - And they have. - Just like that. - It's a tough world. We can whine about it, or we can get on with it. Personally, I''m getting on with it.

[Kitbag]

Totally agree Al R, PN and Cazatou. We should not allow this thread to fall to the level of the paranoid ramblings I found in the comments section of Al R's 2nd link.
DERG is perfectly free to hold his strange and somewhat distorted views, I contend we are perfectly at liberty to treat them with the contempt they deserve.

Where on earth are these thousands of spare troops coming from?

I can guess, as can many others on here.
Is it right that the military should be used in this way?
Does anybody care?
Will 'corporate responsibility' come to the fore in the event an unfortunate occurrence happens (death or serious injury in custody for example)

[AR1]

Meant to add... Firemans strike....:ok:

[Al R]

Trouble is Kitbag, if the worse does happen, these days, you can bet your bottom dollar that the scroats will have better lawyers than their temporary prison officers.

[DERG]

Well yes..I am certain that if you asked my local constabulary if I was a "risk" or an activist I am sure all the ranks up to Inspector would fall in with your view. The Inspectors would prolly say "no comment" but privately the front line officers would readily jump on your post in agreement.:E In fact one day I want to use the "Freedom of Information Act" to see exactly what they have on me! Rock On!

"You suggest that the Services are actual or closet rightists. You say it went to ratsh1t in 1984 which was when, I believe, there was a Conservative Government - 27 years ago?"

Thats my interpretation of the posts I have read on here.

"Meant to add... Firemans strike" Sorted that with a personal visit.
One of the reasons the police keep clear by the way. They might have to "work" otherwise!

"DERG is perfectly free to hold his strange and somewhat distorted views"
Depends on what you know and have seen on Europe mainland, Nazi era, E Bloc era.

"government values the police more than it dose the military and that to me STINKS."

I edited that out, best not to get too affected by politics but the feeling remains. Basically because of the right wing threat..read Neo Nazi.

"If you are against Government, and have been since 1984, that makes you an anarchist. I do not believe Anarchists won many seats in any election. "

Better copy and paste and send to MI5. Not that they have any spare times these days what with budget cuts an all. No joke...if you feel that way ACT!. They always have an open ear...thats called intelligence..ahem:cool:

"I fail to see, however, what this topic has to do with Military Aviation."
Agreed but I did not bring this topic up. I swung it this way because it needs to be discussed how this situation came about.

P.S. I was told at 14 that I could not enter the RAF because I was a foreigner! Back in 1968. Just so happened that my Dad brought my Mom home from WW2. As did many others from all the Allies.

[E L Whisty]

DERG - you should be more diligent in taking your medication as prescribed.

You might, also, find some benefit in learning English grammar, spelling and punctuation.

[DERG]

After a while you get used to it. But thanks for the advice.:)

[Army Mover]

P.S. I was told at 14 that I could not enter the RAF because I was a foreigner! Back in 1968. Just so happened that my Dad brought my Mom home from WW2. As did many others from all the Allies.

Mmm - you were poorly advised mate, same time and circumstances - they let me in; maybe they knew your politics even then :E

[Seldomfitforpurpose]

Rejection generally fosters malcontent :rolleyes:

[forget]

DERG. Well yes I was born here by default. In 1945 the Nazi beheaded my uncle just as the Russians were about to liberate my home town. So we took off and came to the UK.

DERG. I was told at 14 that I could not enter the RAF because I was a foreigner! Back in 1968. Just so happened that my Dad brought my Mom home from WW2. As did many others from all the Allies.

So which is it? Certainly got me baffled. :hmm:

[DERG]

Both...War ended in May 1945 I think..All of the family was involved in anti Nazi activity, mother imprisoned. Uncle was beheaded by Nazi in Feb for no other reason than the war was over and they wanted no tell tales. Think there were 17 political prisoners that day all beheaded by guillotene.

We were lucky because we had a Czech name and were able to survive while most around us... Jewish Families were expelled out to the camps. Thats why to this day most of the real police work in central Europe is done in plain clothes. The older ones are still scared of the police. In fact they are fabulous the way the keep crime down. In all 65 000 people of all ages were expelled from the city and only a handful survived.

"Rejection generally fosters malcontent" Totally agree..thats why Israel is the way it is today. Have to say we..those of us who survived..make excellent defenders..for better or worse..I am not happy with it but realise it as just part of humanity.

Army Mover: Was an academic shool, I only knew one guy who got in through the ATC route in my year. Did well and "invented" a new radar detection system. John Simpson he was called..or Simmer as we called him he will be about 57 years old now. Last saw him around 1970. He is the only one that I know of that went into the services.

[Shack37]

You might, also, find some benefit in learning English grammar, spelling and punctuation.



True, but there might also be the odd unnecessary comma in the quote above. Whatever floats your punctuation boat. (Just joining in the thread drift)

[Kreuger flap]

True, but there might also be the odd unecessary comma in the quote above. Whatever floats your punctuation boat. (Just joining in the thread drift)

True, but there might be the odd letter missing from the word highlighted in the quote above. Whatever floats your spelling boat. (Just joining in the thread drift)

[DERG]

we thought The Fench The Brits The Canadian and The Ozzies were the tops...Russians we had to endure until USA basically took over.

YouTube - R.O.C.K. In The U.S.A. (A Salute To 60's Rock) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SgtmStUrXMQ)

[Pontius Navigator]

DERG, things become clearer, thank you. As you came from a communist country you were therefore barred. The following extract, although 3 years after your date will illustrate the point. I would guess that he had joined well before 1968 and had been lucky to retain his clearances.

We had many Poles that has served in WW2; they were all, as far as I know, put in non-operational appointments.

In June 1971, a Czech-born former RAF sergeant was convicted of espionage on behalf of the Czechoslovak intelligence service, which is known to have passed on information supplied by him a about the V-bomber force to the USSR. [19] The spy concerned, Nicholas Prager, alleged in court that his wife, Jana, had been seduced by a Czech diplomat in London whom she supplied with secret papers.

[Sgt.Slabber]

Gruadain editoryal tooday...


The absurdities of English spelling are familiar enough. Or shud that be enuff? Most of us admit we are embarrassed when we spell it embarassed and know that we are pompous about acommodating other people's erors. A poll for the English spelling society (http://www.englishspellingsociety.org/), which would like the rules relaxed at least to admit alternatives, found most people were irritated to read misspelled words, even in the informality of the internet. This is a mystery. It is our language and we can spell it how we want. Texters happily use abbreviations and phonetics. In the 19th century the admirable American lexicographer Noah Webster (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noah_Webster) just rewrote the rules. He said he wanted to rescue the native tongue from the clamour of pedantry (he blamed the English aristocracy) which is why plough is plow, centre is center and colour became color. Irregular spelling, it is claimed, contributes (http://www.spellingsociety.org/media/spelling-on-the-internet.pdf)to the high level of illiteracy in the UK, while phonetic languages like Italian and, apparently, Finnish not only have no problem with dyslexia, they don't even have a word for it. In Cloud Atlas, David Mitchell develops an entirely plausible form of spelling some future version of English. The critics claim that it would mean different spellings in Newcastle and Bristol. But go to India or Africa and it is clear the Anglophone world is already divided not only by pronunciation but by usage. In an increasingly homogenous world, the moment has come to step back where we can from uniformity and let in variety and simplicity.


Back to thread: have the "Army" not done this before, when Aunty's Dens of Correction were full to bursting? ISTR places like Beckingham, Westdown Camp, Knook, and others such places being pressed into service as temporary nicks and being staffed by military type police, PTI's and other such applicable spare bods.

[radar101]

Back to thread: have the "Army" not done this before, when Aunty's Dens of Correction were full to bursting? ISTR places like Beckingham, Westdown Camp, Knook, and others such places being pressed into service as temporary nicks and being staffed by military type police, PTI's and other such applicable spare bods.


Not just Army. I recall in about 81-83 losing our sqn discip sgt for a while as he played prison warder.

[Sgt.Slabber]

Radar101,

Thanks for that. I was at Cranditz 81-83ish and I'm sure that some of the PTI's went off down the Newark road to Beckingham to help out for a few days. That's why I put "Army" in quotes. Thanks again...

[Wensleydale]

I prefer to think that a scab provides excellent pretection and healing qualities by preventing a build up of puss and corruption within a wound...

[LFFC]

Military furious at plans to prepare cover for prison staff strike (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/military-furious-at-plans-to-prepare-cover-for-prison-staff-strike-2239762.html)

[minigundiplomat]

A 7 month commitment?

With 6 month PVR times, the 7th month could prove interesting.

[LFFC]

Union fury as Ken Clarke privatises Birmingham Prison (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-12920843)


Mr Clarke told MPs the "military are involved" in contingency plans should Prison Officers stage a strike.


:mad:

[The Old Fat One]

This is lunacy, plain and simple.

Fighting fires is one thing; coming face to face with the hardcore criminal/lowlife elements of society is quite another. The prison officer job is a specialist one requiring a mindset that will be quite alien to most in the military. The only time the military bumps against these elements of a society is when they are war with them and they see them at the end of a barrel of a gun.

Many moons ago I lived with a female CID officer. She was always disparaging about the Military Police..."who'd want to police a disciplined, highly ordered, law abiding section of society, what's the point?"

Her comments resonate now. This is not work for the military...if needs must, get the police to do it. Pull them off traffic duties for a month or so....there will be more than enough.

[navibrator]

I think you will find the Police have a manning issue what with having to cut front-line officers!

[The Old Fat One]

I was being a touch sarcastic...I guess everyone has manning issues. Just grips my **** that you can't move for traffic cops where I live.

Cancel the Olympics, Royal Wedding and all football matches. That should free up plenty of the old bill.

[thunderbird7]

So, Mods, why is it ok to have a whole thread about the ARMY manning prisons during prison officer strikes, yet when we try to discuss CAS in a flying suit, the thread gets deleted?

Your inconsistency is hard to fathom at times - surely this topic belongs on ARRSE?

[Just This Once...]

why is it ok to have a whole thread about the ARMY manning prisons

Don't need a mod to answer this as this forum covers 'the backroom boys and girls' that we depend on to service aircraft, load weapons, provide int, fly as crew etc etc. Having chaps from the typical RAF station to support this effort is a distraction from worthy of note.

Not sure why you presume only Army chaps will be called upon (although my unit relies on Army chaps to get the flying job done too).

[glad rag]

I think you will find the Police have a manning issue what with having to cut front-line officers!

All depends what this idiotic coalition ALLOWS the CC's to call "front line officers" in the first place dontcha know...they don't say the police service has become politicised for a joke......

[polecat2]

I was told at 14 that I could not enter the RAF because I was a foreigner! Back in 1968. Just so happened that my Dad brought my Mom home from WW2. As did many others from all the Allies.

Well, my (Polish soldier) Dad came to England via Dunkirk in 1940, married a local girl (my Mum) in 1944 and remained in this country after the war. He didn't take out UK citizenship. Yet I was still able to join up as an RAF Apprentice in 1961 at age 16.

True I had to jump through hoops first though - do you remember the Form Ident 177? And throughout my 22 years service I still had to go for the occasional interview by the SIB, usually before a posting.

I'm sorry you were not able to enlist and can only assume it may be because you were still in contact with relatives in the old country at the time.

Polecat

[cazatou]

polecat2

If you read DERG's post No 10 it is more likely that he would have failed even the most basic check by the Security Services.

[cazatou]

BBC are reporting that the Prison Officers Association are to ballot Prison Officers in respect of "industrial action" over the privatisation of Jails. Although Prison Officers are banned from going on strike the ballot will seek members views about " industrial action up to and including strike action."