Russia's Defence spending up to 2020

[Finningley Boy]

BBC News - Russia plans $650bn defence spend up to 2020 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-12567043)

According to this, Russia plans to spend £400,000,000,000 on Defence over the next 9 years. As I've posted on UKAR this would be quite an expansion given the far more efficient return on military budgeting in Russia.:E

FB:)

[pr00ne]

Finningleyboy,

The UK plans to spend about the same over that period and we are a far smaller country than Russia, what is the problem?

[Duncan D'Sorderlee]

If google is your friend, I found the following for Defence/Defense Budgets for 2011:

Russia - $63bn
UK - $60bn
USA - $708bn


Duncs:ok:

[Finningley Boy]

Finningleyboy,

The UK plans to spend about the same over that period and we are a far smaller country than Russia, what is the problem?


I don't think the UK plan to spend quite that much on defence over the same period. Didn't I allude in my first post to the fact that what Russia gets for each Rouble spent, is far more for its much lower level of defence spending than what we get. Putting aside the fact that we spend far more on personnel, we have the most inefficient defence budget on the planet. You may have heard one or two things mentioned about that recently, with Russia tripling what it currently spends, taking their defence budget above ours in the years ahead, I imagine it will enhance there offensive/defensive capability quite considerably.

FB:)

[Duncan D'Sorderlee]

FB has a fair point; Uk defence spending appears to involve spending £4bn and getting nothing in return. :O

Duncs:ok:

[pr00ne]

FB,

Well, what is your point?

Should we be somehow afraid of Russian defence spending? Why?

Their defence resources are pitiful and they have been in a mess for decades. They are constantly announcing rearmament drives and spending plans. Look at what normally follows, penny packet procurements in small numbers over years.

No story here.

[Duncan D'Sorderlee]

Enough of a story to make the BBC News though.

Duncs:ok:

[draken55]

Interesting programme on BBC Scotland last night hosted by Sally Magnusson on the topic of Trident. It's perhaps worthwhile to remember that inefficient or not, the UK Defence Budget now has to fund the replacement as well as the annual running cost. The latter was stated in the programme as circa £2 Billion per annum at present:oh:

[Finningley Boy]

Another thing is I don't thnk the Russian Armed Forces have all the Jargon titled high ranking posts which our lot appear to have grown like hogweed over the last 15 to 20 years.

And an asset is an asset, the Russians field quite a considerable amount of hardware, how well maintained and up to date, I admit is a weak area in my drawing this to everyone's attention, however, as they are tripling their lot and buying all those new toys... well I don't think its all that much of a non story as pr00ne charges. Especially when we consider the direction we're heading in over here with the axe swinging, not necessarily at funding, but at available personnel and assets. And thats what ultimately counts, not how many banknotes are in a vault somewhere. What that buys you are not necessarily of equal value pound for pound.

FB:)

[Heathrow Harry]

"Numbers have quality all of their own"

J V Stalin

[Thomas coupling]

I think it was suggested that Russia will spend 4 Trillion, which is in the first post........uuuuhm, I dont think the Uk will be following suit do you? Count the zero's.

[Duncan D'Sorderlee]

Thomas,

That's 4 trillion roubles. A rouble is not worth £1.

Oops; just re-read the first post. However, the link does say $650m which is according to the story 4 trillion roubles.

Duncs:ok:

[minigundiplomat]

How does this affect the loss of MRA capability?

[backseatjock]

Problem we Brits face is that only a small % of our annual defence budget is actually used for procurement. The rest......?

[Earl of Rochester]

Moscow's purchase of French warships causes panic from Washington to Tokyo

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01834/fra_1834413c.jpg

As Russia pushes ahead with its biggest rearmament programme since the fall of the Soviet Union, its decision to buy two amphibious Mistral-class assault ships from France is causing alarm from Washington to Tokyo.

The £856 million pound two ship deal will allow Russia to later build a further two such vessels at its own shipyards, giving it four hi-tech assault ships in total. The vessels can carry up to 16 helicopters, four landing craft, 13 battle tanks, around another 100 vehicles and a 450-strong force. The ships are also equipped with their own on-board hospitals.

It is the biggest and most controversial sale of foreign arms to Russia by a Western country since the Second World War.

The United States, Georgia, Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia have all raised concerns about the deal, but Paris has brushed those aside saying the time has come to trust the Kremlin.

Georgia, which fought and lost a short sharp war with Moscow in 2008, is particularly nervous.

Its anxiety stems from the fact that the ship is a game-changer for Russia, allowing it to swiftly land a formidable assault force on foreign soil.

Those fears have been fanned by the head of the Russian navy Admiral Vladimir Vysotsky who was quoted as saying that the ship would have allowed Russia to crush the Georgian army much more quickly than it did in 2008 during the countries' five-day war. "Everything that we did in the space of 26 hours at the time, this ship will do within 40 minutes," he said.
Tokyo, which is locked in a tense territorial dispute with Moscow, is also thought to be concerned as the Kremlin has indicated that one of the ships may be deployed in its Pacific Fleet.

Moscow's purchase of French warships causes panic from Washington to Tokyo - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/russia/8345994/Moscows-purchase-of-French-warships-causes-panic-from-Washington-to-Tokyo.html)

[TBM-Legend]

Quite a nice looking boat. Maybe the RN could share one with the Frog Navy!:rolleyes:

Seriously looking a budget numbers does not tell the story. Russian troops are not paid anything like Brits etc. Same dough equals more boots eg. I bet their admin/basing/housing/ etc is a lot cheaper per event. Same goes with most hardware.

[Finningley Boy]

That is largely the thrust of my point TB, the Russian military budget doesn't need to be any bigger than ours given how much of ours ends up going toward not just a reasonably comfortable service for all ranks, and I fully support that having been amidst it myself, but not only that, given the much mentioned parlous state of defence procurement and the fact that our defence chiefs are accutely exercised by addressing outspoken liberal political/cultural demands and ensuring that they are sufficiently, even excessively, complied with. Well it doesn't take the Brains of a Public Engagement Strategy Co-ordination Manager to see just how the Russians, who's lower orders have much lower expectations regarding service amenities, manage to make there loot go much further in terms of shear hardware and supporting logistics.:E

FB:)

[Heathrow Harry]

"Mistral"s are nice boats and probably woudl be a good buy for the RN if we needed one but they are deficient in self protection against modern sea skimming missiles and any N sub would eat one for breakfast

The Russian Navy hasn't anything very modern in this class and probably figured outthat if they buy from the French they'll get a couple of boats quite quickly that actually work and a follow up on local production of a proven design

it will enable them to swank around the Black Sea and also join International efforts without looking embarrassed but I can't see why it frightens anyone other than the Georgians TBH; Johnny Turk doesn't seem to be worrying

[minigundiplomat]

The Russian Navy hasn't anything very modern in this class and probably figured outthat if they buy from the French they'll get a couple of boats quite quickly that actually work and a follow up on local production of a proven design


Given the alternatives are:

A. Build it in Russia, of poor build standard and probably so heavy it will never float, then install a leaking reactor.

B. Buy it from the USA, which means it will work, but only when they say it can work. And it's a bit awkward.

C. Buy it from BAe, all they need to do is sign a contract for a reasonable price, and hey presto....in 40 years, and after a gazillion dollars overspend they will have a ship that can't leave port because nobody actually specified in para 48881b of the contract that it had to be watertight.