GA jobs in the states - for a citizen

[M1ghtyDuck]

Hi

I'm looking for information on the state of general aviation in the USA (all over). I've tried searching but most threads on here are about visas and such. I'm in the lucky situation of holding both a UK and USA passport so it's not an issue for me.

I live in England and I have a ppl I got in the UK. In a few months I'm going to start my hour building and atpl theory, doing it in the UK towards a JAA CPL.

However, I was wondering how much of an advantage my American passport is? I'm not after an airliner job, I'm after a bush pilot/skydive/scenic/charter job that's more hands on flying. I love the idea of travelling and flying in a few different countries/states over the next 10 years so moving around isn't a problem.

In short, would you recommend I head to the states, convert my licences to FAA (or even just get FAA instead of JAA), and try and work up the general aviation ladder there? Or, is there not much advantage to holding an american passport, and I should continue along a more traditional uk citizen route, perhaps heading to southern africa to try my luck there?

Thanks so much

[Waterskier]

GA jobs in the states don't pay very much. Its hard to make a living as a flight instructor, skydive jump pilot, traffic watch pilot, bush flying, etc. Maybe $15-$20 an hour and usually only paid when flying. At least that was my experience... GA is almost viewed as a stepping stone to corporate or airline gigs and paid accordingly.

[M1ghtyDuck]

Thanks, money's not a huge concern for me, at least for the first few years. I've heard of for example skydive pilots needing night work just to pay the rent. I'm ok with that because I understand that a 250hr pilot can get jobs in very few places. Once I had say 500 more hours I believe that would open me up for higher paying jobs? Would you recommend doing that? Or trying to get my hours up here first so I could go straight for taxi jobs with 700ish hours?

[chongololo]

There is more general aviation in the US than other parts of the world so that would help you out.
Bear in mind that if you want to fly 'air taxi' over here it would require 1200 hours minimum under part 135 regulations.
Coming over here and finishing your training might be the way to go since you would be meeting people and that could help you find your first job.
Good luck with what you decide and keep us informed as to how you get on.

[M1ghtyDuck]

Thanks for the advice. My only concern is that I'd only have an FAA licence, whereas if I got a JAA and converted I could more easily then go work elsewhere, although I guess I could always just convert when I needed it. I know JAA -> FAA conversions are relatively simple, is the reverse true?

And thanks for the air taxi info

[SNS3Guppy]

Once I had say 500 more hours I believe that would open me up for higher paying jobs?

Not really, no.

500 hours is enough for a VFR Part 135 (charter) job. You won't find many in fixed wing that pay much. 1,200 hours is the minimum for IFR 135 jobs, which is really any multi-engine flying. Most operators prefer to see 1,500 hours and an ATP any more.

If you're intending to do back country flying, operators want to see back country experinece, mountain experience, etc. If you're going to Alaska, for example, while you may be flying VFR-only, it may frequently be marginal VFR, and instrument, back country, rural, and mountain experience is important. Many operators want to see Alaska experience, first. It's somewhat of a catch 22.

Your passport is largely irrelevant. If you have US Citizenship and a right to work, then you have a right to work. Without a right to work, of course, you might as well not bother. Presently the industry is slowly recovering, but as it does, expect competitive minimums (the experience you'll need to have, in order to compete with other applicants, rather than the minimums that the company publishes) will be higher. If a company tells you that you need 500 hours, but all the other applicants have 2,000 hours, then what you have is a competitive minimum of 2,000 hours.

With the experience level you're describing, working as a flight instructor is your best bet, initially. You may be able to get some work towing banners seasonally in order to get your initial experience.

[beachbumflyer]

Check Airline Pilot Central Forums

[M1ghtyDuck]

Ok, so I get the impression that while there's more GA in the states, it's out of reach, at least initially, for low hour pilots. Perhaps it would be better to try places like southern africa until I had enough hours? I'm not too keen on instructing; more money for the rating, loads of instructors already, and just not the sort of flying I want to do although I appreciate it's use.

In essence my question is: is the right to work in the states valuable for the traditional route to an airline in 10 years? Would I be throwing away a great opportunity that most brits don't have by not taking advantage of it? Or am I just as well over here.

Thanks again for all responses. This is really important to me.

[SNS3Guppy]

I'm not too keen on instructing; more money for the rating, loads of instructors already, and just not the sort of flying I want to do although I appreciate it's use.

As an inexperienced pilot, bear in mind the phrase "beggars can't be choosers." You're the beggar. Don't be too choosey.

If you intend to shoot for that airline seat, bear in mind that few airline pilots weren't instructors at some point, and many go on to be check airmen or instructors at some point in their career. Instructing is often your first experience working in a "crew" environment, or working with someone else in the cockpit.

If you're thinking about "building hours" in Africa then coming to the United States to seek work, you may have a wrong idea of how it's going to work for you. You'll end up coming to the US and needing to gain experience more related to the type of flying you'll be doing.

I don't know if you're throwing anything away or not. If you have an opportunity to go to work, then take it if you wish, don't if you don't want to do it.

There are plenty of pilots looking for work. If you come to the United States, you'll be one more person seeking work, hat in hand, hoping for a break. It's up to you.

[chileno 777]

M1
There are basically two countries in Africa where low time hours expats can go…Botswana and Namibia. You would fly C206&210, mostly VFR and generally in an aviation environment totally different to USA. If your goal (in the long term) is the airlines in US, suggest you to start from the bottom in that country (preferably as an instructor). BTW in Namibia government is trying to pass a law that requires at least 2000 hrs TT min for the expats. :ugh:(See African section on this forum).

[Whiteknight68]

Hi guys,

Did the law passed? the one requiring Airlines copilots to have at a minimum an ATP?

Thanks

[MarkerInbound]

It was signed Aug 1, 2010. It says three years after the date it was signed all 121 pilots must have an ATP. It also says the FAA has three years to change the training for an ATP to include icing, high altitude ops and multi-pilot ops. They may also lower the total time requirement for the ATP by giving credit for an approved training program. All the colleges that have aviation programs are pushing this part. Since ICAO only requires 1200 for the ATP, they may try to say their training is worth 300 hours flight time.

[Tinstaafl]

ICAO specifies 1200 hrs for an ATPL instead of 1500? Never heard of that before. Are you sure? I have Oz, UK & US ATPLs and they all required 1500 hrs.

[MarkerInbound]

I have seen that somewhere. ICAO charges to see their guidance. Was thinking that's how the FAA allows F/E time up to a certain amount. Of course each state can set their own requirements.

If ICAO requires a full 1500 hours, it'll be interesting to what happens if some of the schools get their exemption passed. You'd end up with an ATP that would have a "does not meet ICAO requirements" limitation.

[Tinstaafl]

Exemption? You're referring to the 1500 hour rule that Congress just passed, I take it. That only specifies min. hours for the job (with a possibility of an exemption for particular training programs), it doesn't specify that an ATP must be issued at those hours. The US still requires 1500 hours for an ATP.

[MarkerInbound]

Read the bill as signed by Obama, it's not 1500 hours, you must have an ATP: (sorry about the formatting)

SEC. 216. FLIGHT CREWMEMBER SCREENING AND QUALIFICATIONS
(B) ALL FLIGHT CREWMEMBERS.—Rules issued under
paragraph (1) shall ensure that, after the date that is
3 years after the date of enactment of this Act, all flight

crewmembers—

(i) have obtained an airline transport pilot certificate
under part 61 of title 14, Code of Federal Regulations;
and
(ii) have appropriate multi-engine aircraft flight



experience, as determined by the Administrator.

And they go on


SEC. 217. AIRLINE TRANSPORT PILOT CERTIFICATION.

(a) RULEMAKING PROCEEDING.—The Administrator of the Federal
Aviation Administration shall conduct a rulemaking proceeding


to amend part 61 of title 14, Code of Federal Regulations, to
modify requirements for the issuance of an airline transport pilot
certificate.
(b) M



INIMUM REQUIREMENTS.—To be qualified to receive an






airline transport pilot certificate pursuant to subsection (a), an

individual shall—
(1) have sufficient flight hours, blah blah bhal and
(2) blah blah
(c) F


LIGHT HOURS.—






(1) NUMBERS OF FLIGHT HOURS.—The total flight hours
required by the Administrator under subsection (b)(1) shall


be at least 1,500 flight hours.
(2) F



LIGHT HOURS IN DIFFICULT OPERATIONAL CONDITIONS.—






blah blah blah


(d) C


REDIT TOWARD FLIGHT HOURS.—The Administrator may






allow specific academic training courses, beyond those required

under subsection (b)(2), to be credited toward the total flight hours
required under subsection (c). The Administrator may allow such
credit based on a determination by the Administrator that allowing
a pilot to take specific academic training courses will enhance
safety more than requiring the pilot to fully comply with the flight
hours requirement.









If you want to read the whole thing, this stuff is at the very end:







http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=111_cong_bills&docid=f:h5900enr.txt.pdf

[Tinstaafl]

That *is* more than I was aware was being done. Following on from that you're right: Will the US begin to issue non-ICAO ATPs? I can't help feeling that there'll be some "Doh!"s about ATPs & ICAO if school's get their way. Perhaps the rule will be modified to avoid watering down the ATP.

[darkroomsource]

There are basically two countries in Africa where low time hours expats can go…Botswana and Namibia. You would fly C206&210, mostly VFR and generally in an aviation environment totally different to USA. If your goal (in the long term) is the airlines in US, suggest you to start from the bottom in that country (preferably as an instructor). BTW in Namibia government is trying to pass a law that requires at least 2000 hrs TT min for the expats. :ugh:(See African section on this forum).
Actually things are changing here in Namibia and Botswana.
The gov't has implemented 2000 TT requirement for work visas/permits in Namibia and Botswana is trying to implement a 1000 or 1500 TT requirement. All other southern African countries are 1000 or more for a work visa/permit, OR they require 1000 or more for a license validation/conversion.